Radar, Sonar explained

[Onkel Neal]

Radar, Sonar explained (http://www.subsim.com/sh4/sh4_66.htm)

Seems to work as expected, will test extensively tomorrow.

[IRONxMortlock]

I don't have the game yet but how about reports of ships not being deteced by sound? Does this mean hydrophone contacts will only work if you manually control them using HOME and END keys?
________
Weedtracker (http://dispensaries.org/)

[FIREWALL]

All those screen shots look great to me. What is everone or almost everyone complaining about.

[CCIP]

Also, if the control keys file is anything like SHIIIs, then it'd be easy to program shortcuts for your sonarman to report and track sound contacts (merchant and warship). :hmm:

[Onkel Neal]

I don't have the game yet but how about reports of ships not being deteced by sound? Does this mean hydrophone contacts will only work if you manually control them using HOME and END keys?

It seems to me to work about the same as SH3. The AI crew will detect sound and radar contacts on their own. They will report them. You can go check it out yourself, or you can order the AI crewman to give you constant reports on the nearest contact, etc.

I think the sonar works best when you get to about 20 meters or deeper. I actually think the devs modeled the characteristics correctly, you can't hear as well on the surface or just below the surface...

...that radar and sonar station, would be better if they would fill the screen like SH2/3, but it works pretty well as is.

[geetrue]

There's the first sign of other ports, "Report to Brisbane" :p

[DaMaGe007]

Report to the Brisbane...minor english error there, but I like that screen already, thats the sort of stuff sh3 was missing, good stuff...

Could you post some more of that sort of stuff Neal, I prolly wont be able to get the game till the end of the week at least here in Australia. I would like to see how the campain has changed for immersion.

[P_Funk]

or you can order the AI crewman to give you constant reports on the nearest contact, etc.

You know what I think would be an innovative change? Being able to tell your crew to track ANY contact. Certainly it would make collecting data on a target while maneuvering possible.

[Duli]

I would be happy if everything would work and be as "simple" as it was in SH3. :)

[Ragtag]

Hi Neal, thanks for explaining. How do you estimate targets speed?
Manual says chronometer should work as in SH3 but i don't get any estimates.

[Ping Jockey]

Is the Radar a SD/SJ setup like it was in sh1???

[Dragonhammer]

For the hydrophone i discovered it magicly turns on when diving deeper then 17m.
I thought it was broken first because you couldent even hear your own baffles at periscope depth.
And like neal said it works perfectly with home and end keys.
It would have saved alot of confusion and anger if they stated a minimum operating depth in the manual.
It would even be better that you heard only youre baffles and a big wash noise on other bearings like you have in subcommand when listening at periscope depth instead of on and off.
For the radar i discovered that it works on the salmon class and not on the purpoiss even though it has the stations, maybe you can install radar in a career mode.
Here again too falls the manual short and causes a lot of unneccesary anger and confusion.

[jeff lackey]

Still have not been sent the manual, so I'm still feeling my way around some things.

Sonar question - let's say you're running medium depth, tracking a sonar contact. Thanks to Neal, I can turn my hydrophone towards it. The sonar man tells me it's a merchant, medium range, closing slowly. I ask for a pinged range, and the answer is "no target selected." It appears the only way to get them to do an active ping for the range is to go up to periscope depth, find the ship visually, lock, then ask for the pinged range.

Is there a way to get them to give me the range without first going up and finding the ship visually?

[Krupp]

@ Dragonhammer:

Reading your post, I understood, that it's not possible to use sound watch when your sub is surfaced. Even with those types that actually had underwater soundheads that could be lowered? (Port and starboard sides. ) One wartime manual says that "soundheads should not be left lowered above 10 knots."

You really have to submerge to get any sound information? :shifty:

[jeff lackey]

Still have not been sent the manual, so I'm still feeling my way around some things.

Sonar question - let's say you're running medium depth, tracking a sonar contact. Thanks to Neal, I can turn my hydrophone towards it. The sonar man tells me it's a merchant, medium range, closing slowly. I ask for a pinged range, and the answer is "no target selected." It appears the only way to get them to do an active ping for the range is to go up to periscope depth, find the ship visually, lock, then ask for the pinged range.

Is there a way to get them to give me the range without first going up and finding the ship visually?

Well, to answer my own question, after some playing more this morning, it seems (only one try, got to reproduce) that if my guy announces a sound contact, and he seems to immediately classify (merchant, warship,) and i ask for a range, I get "no target selected." If I click on the send info to TDC, then click on ask for range, same thing. But if I go to the sonar, point the hydrophone in the right direction, and if its close enough to show the contact on the form in the upper right, I can then click "send to TDC" and THEN click on give me a range, and it works.

Whew! Again, a big shout-out thanks to Neal (I'll try to get you and subsim.com a shout-out in the magazine article) - would have never been able to get this without the home/end key pointer.

[Dragonhammer]

Although you can see the hydrophone's sticking out your hull,there is no function to lower them not in the manual and not on the quick reference card,but then again the home and end keys are also not on the reference card and the manual, so big kuddo's to Neal for finding that out.
As of now hydrophone only works when diving deeper than 17m.

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks for the explanations, Mister Herr Commander Onkel, Sir. Nice screenshots, too.:rock:

[Onkel Neal]

Whew! Again, a big shout-out thanks to Neal (I'll try to get you and subsim.com a shout-out in the magazine article) - would have never been able to get this without the home/end key pointer.



Shout outs, woot! Glad to help, Jeff.

I really appreciate and admire the extra lengths these Romanian devs go to in order to reproduce historical accuracy. Of course, they only have so many people and a limited amount of time to work on things like this, but contrast the sonar and targeting method in SH4 with that of Battlestations: Midway, for example; no sonar modeled, no TDC, no sub interiors, no range determination, just point and shoot. SH4 gives the player a lot of interesting things to do. That certainly helps the gameplay. And SH4 allows the casual player the option of turning off manual targeting so he can play a relaxed game of click and sink.


Dragonhammer:
It would have saved alot of confusion and anger if they stated a minimum operating depth in the manual.

Yes, you’re right. The manual comes up short in this department. But, on the other hand, that adds value to Subsim as a resource. Thanks for confirming the sonar depth.

Neal
Subsim

[Onkel Neal]

Although you can see the hydrophone's sticking out your hull,there is no function to lower them not in the manual and not on the quick reference card,but then again the home and end keys are also not on the reference card and the manual, so big kuddo's to Neal for finding that out.
As of now hydrophone only works when diving deeper than 17m.
The thanks goes to Dan Dimitrescu, Project lead of dev team, for that info. :up:

[Ragtag]

Although you can see the hydrophone's sticking out your hull,there is no function to lower them not in the manual and not on the quick reference card,but then again the home and end keys are also not on the reference card and the manual, so big kuddo's to Neal for finding that out.
As of now hydrophone only works when diving deeper than 17m.
The thanks goes to Dan Dimitrescu, Project lead of dev team, for that info. :up:

Hi :)
Could you please explain step by step on how to estimate target speed with the watch on 100% realism. I tried the manual step and starting/stopping watch but speed never shows more than 0. And i do this after setting range and AOB.

Thanks:)

[Dragonhammer]

Sadly the estemated targets speed option does not function.
You can use the 3 minutes 15 second rule to calculate the speed,if you have automatic map updates on this is easy.
go to nav map and make a mark on the targets postion then wait 3.15 minutes and then make another mark on the targets postion.
Then use the ruler to measure the distance between the two marks and then you have the targets speed,for example you measure 0.9 wich is equal to 9 knots
A less accurate method is to guess the targets speed this is done from experience.
Merchants often travel at 6 knots,a carrier at 9 knots,a cruiser at 16 knots.
This method by no means 100% correct because speed can and will vary but its good to use when you don't have 3 minutes and want to do a quicky.

[Payoff]

@ Dragonhammer:

Reading your post, I understood, that it's not possible to use sound watch when your sub is surfaced. Even with those types that actually had underwater soundheads that could be lowered? (Port and starboard sides. ) One wartime manual says that "soundheads should not be left lowered above 10 knots."

You really have to submerge to get any sound information? :shifty:

I'm glad you wrote that, as I remember reading as well, U.S. subs could track sonar targets on surface at limited speeds. Cant remember where though.

[Ragtag]

Sadly the estemated targets speed option does not function.
You can use the 3 minutes 15 second rule to calculate the speed,if you have automatic map updates on this is easy.
go to nav map and make a mark on the targets postion then wait 3.15 minutes and then make another mark on the targets postion.
Then use the ruler to measure the distance between the two marks and then you have the targets speed,for example you measure 0.9 wich is equal to 9 knots
A less accurate method is to guess the targets speed this is done from experience.
Merchants often travel at 6 knots,a carrier at 9 knots,a cruiser at 16 knots.
This method by no means 100% correct because speed can and will vary but its good to use when you don't have 3 minutes and want to do a quicky.

Thank you for your help :) I guess this will have to do untill they fix it.

[unpurspy]

Hy all,
I c't find how to use the sonar in SH4, i tried to click on every part of it in the game but no luck i c't move it or interact exept for the button to "ping" and show distance to targets.The AI crew still can use it but i would like to do it myself when needed cause it's an important feature to avoid destroyers or find targets when immerged.It must be a simple thing to find but it's really annoying me for now.Oh by the way can we still find targets speed by the sound of it like in SH3?
thx

[Cakewalk]

Heh, many people are confused about this, you can't move it by using the 3D controls, no matter what.

The Home and End keys rotate it 'round.

[unpurspy]

Thx alot.
I wish they printed this little things in the manual

[kampf]

Thx alot.
I wish they printed this little things in the manual

Not only is this not printed in the manual, if you look at the keyboard card that came with the game it shows the HOME and END keys to be greyed out in other words non functioning in the game.

Kampf

[boatfull]

You also have to be just under periscope level for it get a hit.
about 60 to 65 feet works for me.

[Rykaird]

You also have to be just under periscope level for it get a hit.
about 60 to 65 feet works for me.

Yes, with scope down at periscope depth you're blind as well as deaf.

[Onkel Neal]

Newbie bump :)

[Gizzmoe]

Stickied.

[JackChen]

Try a quick tour of the sub and found myself clicking on stuff and not getting a response. What's the point of putting those fancy instruments that is supposed to put attention to details when you can't use them?

[smoker00]

I can't turn it on!? The Turn on/off button is greyed out, and I cant click the 3d models

[OneTinSoldier]

I would like to invite you last two fellows to make vote in my poll and post a comment in it. Just click on the link below. Thanks! :)

Interactive Gauges and Crew in 3D (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108751)

[Chili]

Like everyone else it seems I am having NO luck at all with the sonar and radar functions. Can anyone who does get this stuff to work please explain step by step how they did it.
I am getting very frustrated with the lack of instruction, explanation, or tutorials for those of us who haven't played the silent hunter series before.

[Rykaird]

Sadly the estemated targets speed option does not function.
You can use the 3 minutes 15 second rule to calculate the speed,if you have automatic map updates on this is easy.
go to nav map and make a mark on the targets postion then wait 3.15 minutes and then make another mark on the targets postion.
Then use the ruler to measure the distance between the two marks and then you have the targets speed,for example you measure 0.9 wich is equal to 9 knots
A less accurate method is to guess the targets speed this is done from experience.
Merchants often travel at 6 knots,a carrier at 9 knots,a cruiser at 16 knots.
This method by no means 100% correct because speed can and will vary but its good to use when you don't have 3 minutes and want to do a quicky.

Thank you for your help :) I guess this will have to do untill they fix it.

FYI, this is the right system when using metric - 1 knot of speed will take you 100 meters in 3 mins 14 secs.

For imperial, the map shows nautical miles, so the conversion is simpler.

[Arrowhead2k1]

I think the sonar works best when you get to about 20 meters or deeper. I actually think the devs modeled the characteristics correctly, you can't hear as well on the surface or just below the surface...



Maybe that's true, but you can't hear anything at all when just below the surface, not even your own engines. It doesn't make sense for them to abruptly start working at a certain depth.

[-Pv-]

The estimated target speed in the TDC display works. Click on the status button in the lower right to force it to update. Remember this display emulates a 1940s mechanical computer that relied heavily on human input.

When using the 1.1 patch, your depth must be 154 ft for some occasional sonar contact and 155 feet for reliable and constant contacts. The ATTACK parascope is usable at both these depths. To test if you have the correct depth, man the sonar screen and rotate the head to 180 deg. If you do not hear your own props you are too shallow. Watch the depth report while listening for your props.
-Pv-

[Onkel Neal]

The estimated target speed in the TDC display works. Click on the status button in the lower right to force it to update. Remember this display emulates a 1940s mechanical computer that relied heavily on human input.


Huh? Can you add a screenshot to illustrate that? What status button? You sound like you're onto something.

[Deep Six]

Neal I'm not sure the SD Radar is working as intended, I'm on my first patrol and used some reknown to install an SD Radar unit.....Now this should only be able to pick up aircraft......Hum well it also has the magical ability to pick up surface craft as well.......I like the way when it picks up an aircraft the icon is a ship box untill classified but, hey i dont want to stay around on the surface for that long....Bug report the SD radar whilst working is NON-Functional in game, meaning there IS no radar installed..The sd screen is blank...(Yes I did try and turn it on)... I'll test some more but it has definately picked up a surface ship for me.... Got the operstor message...Contact bearing blah blah...Long range....Turned out to be an American Tanker......

Deep Six

[Rykaird]

Neal I'm not sure the SD Radar is working as intended, I'm on my first patrol and used some reknown to install an SD Radar unit.....Now this should only be able to pick up aircraft......Hum well it also has the magical ability to pick up surface craft as well.......I like the way when it picks up an aircraft the icon is a ship box untill classified but, hey i dont want to stay around on the surface for that long....Bug report the SD radar whilst working is NON-Functional in game, meaning there IS no radar installed..The sd screen is blank...(Yes I did try and turn it on)... I'll test some more but it has definately picked up a surface ship for me.... Got the operstor message...Contact bearing blah blah...Long range....Turned out to be an American Tanker......

Deep Six

Yup, that's the way it works. My first patrol, used my school reknown for SD radar. Headed for Tokyo. Thing picks up everything - aircraft and ships. They remain unidentified on the map (grey ship icons) until visually identified, but it sees them and at extreme ranges, and are called out as contacts by the RO. Had dozens of long distance ship contacts called out in the multiple harbors enroute to Tokyo.

[vois2]

. . . I am having NO luck at all with the sonar and radar functions. Can anyone who does get this stuff to work please explain step by step how they did it. I am getting very frustrated with the lack of instruction, explanation, or tutorials for those of us who haven't played the silent hunter series before.

Chili,
I can get you up to speed on sonar, which I find to function perfectly and as expected regarding my experience with SH3. ( >>> Radar is another story. It works, by itself, although I can't interact with it in any way. For radar, I just let the operator tell me what he sees on the scope. By the way I can't get him to stop doing this. <<< )

For sonar ...
I find that the hydrophone is completely functional between 60 to 80 feet depth to keel. I suppose if you are using metric, that would be between 18 and 24 meters depth to keel.

When your ship is at this depth, cut all engines by pressing the ` key. (Upper left of keyboard next to the number "1".)

Press the hydrophone icon or press F8.

All you need to do now is rotate the direction of the hydrophone. You can do this by pressing the "HOME" key on the keyboard. You need to tap it, and not hold it down, so that you arc through 2 or 3 degrees with each tap of the HOME key.

You may wish to make sure there aren't any background noises in the room (real, live room).

If you come across a sonar contact, you will hear the difference. A steady chugging of any sort will reveal the bearing at which the contact lay.

Generally, a ship will be heard on two or three degrees of bearing. That is, if you can hear the ship on 73 degrees, you will probably hear it also on 72 and 74 degrees.

In my experience with both games, if the sound of screws turning is very, very faint, then that ship is very, very far away and you should be prepared for a long chase of successive travel and hydrophone checks to find him.

If you can hear the screws without much straining, then you've got a good potential target at hand. One of the buttons (I believe it is the second or third yellow button from the left) when pressed will reveal a text message showing you the range to the target. Be aware that using this active sonar (to find range) may reveal your location to nearby warships.

You should test all of the above on a known contact. Try a training mission with known ships in the area and dive down to 60 to 80 feet and test the above, to train your ear.

Thanks,
vois2

[Deep Six]

Oh well another bug to add to the fix list....Thanks Rykaird for confirming this as well.

This is a biggie if the SD Radar is all seeing and knowing....Massive immersion breaker. And quite Un-Historical

Deep Six

[Chili]

Thanks vois2 I appreciate it. Seems like a lot of people are having the same problems I am. I have got the sonar to work but the radar is still a mess, guess Ill just not try to do anything with it and let the radar operator let me know when stuff is near!
Thanks again,
Chili

[vois2]

Chili,
That's what I, too, am doing for now with radar. Actually I prefer not to use radar until the bugs are worked out, so I think I'll do the historically accurate thing at the start of my next Dec '41 career and just let the radar slot on the sub go empty.
Now that I have figured out how (thanks to other posters) to NOT have automatic updates and external cam, I think I am set to start career again without fighting the interface so much.

[Onkel Neal]

Neal I'm not sure the SD Radar is working as intended, I'm on my first patrol and used some reknown to install an SD Radar unit.....Now this should only be able to pick up aircraft......Hum well it also has the magical ability to pick up surface craft as well.......I like the way when it picks up an aircraft the icon is a ship box untill classified but, hey i dont want to stay around on the surface for that long....Bug report the SD radar whilst working is NON-Functional in game, meaning there IS no radar installed..The sd screen is blank...(Yes I did try and turn it on)... I'll test some more but it has definately picked up a surface ship for me.... Got the operstor message...Contact bearing blah blah...Long range....Turned out to be an American Tanker......

Deep Six

Aye, I think you're correct. I believe this will be fixed.

[Trout]

Do the Devs even consider radar operation to be a potentially fun part of the sim?
They seemed to have dumbed down Sh4 for the casual gamer - most of the bugs or poorly working features relate to higher difficulty level operations.

Boy, this manual has got to be the WORST I've ever seen.

Trout

[donut]

Do the Devs even consider radar operation to be a potentially fun part of the sim?
They seemed to have dumbed down Sh4 for the casual gamer - most of the bugs or poorly working features relate to higher difficulty level operations.

Boy, this manual has got to be the WORST I've ever seen.

Trout

I could have missed it,but nothing on torp.Speed,range,size of warhead,& steam,or electric.What they left out,would fill another book,SHCE gave this 10 years ago in game,as well as SHIII. It isn't like they didn't have the model under them,when someone was copulating off makeing hard cash.:oops: :hmm: SJ radar,& PPI scope put the lid IJN's coffin.

Lifted from http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tlm/silent.html#torps

Torpedoes, Radar, and TDC

Dud torpedoes can be a real problem before the end of 1943. You can lower the number of duds by having the torpedoes strike obliquely rather than at right angles. I try to have torpedoes strike at an angle of 30-50 degrees. After 1943, duds no longer seem to be a problem.
I leave at least 5 seconds between firings because of prematures: The second torpedo will sometimes detonate in the wake of the first if they are launched with not much time between them. Setting torpedoes too shallow (less than 3 feet) seems to increase the number of premature detonations, too.
The estimate of the distance to a ship is an overestimate by quite a bit until the ship gets within a couple of thousand yards. Use the radar to get accurate distances.
The radar can also help you estimate a ship's speed. 100 yards a minute equals 3 knots. Be sure to account for your own movement...I'm working on a scenario to help show how to use the radar for TDC inputs.
The SD radar tells you how far away a plane is but not what direction. If a plane is low enough, it will appear on the SJ. Watch for small blips away from the convoy.
Use the offset dial on the TDC for ships that are turning at the time you fire. The TDC assumes the target will be moving straight ahead on the course given at the time of firing. If the target is turning, it won't make as much progress in that direction and using a non-zero offset can account for that.
A rule of thumb is that each degree of offset on the TDC gives you a spread of 17 yards for each 1000 yards to the target, assuming they will impact at 90 degrees. For example, if I launch two torpedos, one with a 0 degree offset and one with a 2 degree offset at a target 1000 yards away, the spread between them will be 34 yards. At 2000 yards, the spread will be 68 yards. There's a table at Jim Atkins's site with the exact values, but this rule of thumb will get you to within 10 yards of the table values for offsets of 5 degrees or less at a distance of 3000 yards.
(Note to the geometrically minded: This rule of thumb works because the limit of sin(x)/x [x in radians] goes to 1 for small x. The difference between the angle in radians and the sine of the angle is less than half a percent at 10 degrees, and less than half of a thousandth of a percent at 1 degree. Most of the error in my rule of thumb comes from approximating 1 degree as 0.017 radians. But 17 yards per 1000 yards per degree is easier to figure in my head than 17.5 yards and is good enough for all but long range shots. )

[hachiman]

So ho do you get the Radar to work?
I can't turn it on at all in the school missions unless it's already activated at mission start.

[Barkhorn1x]

Patch 1.1 "fixed" the issue w/ radar working on early boats as it was "not installed". Now, for some reason, this applies to the school missions so no working radar.

[Radtgaeb]

My radar won't even TURN ON.....

[-Pv-]

"... For sonar ...
I find that the hydrophone is completely functional between 60 to 80 feet depth to keel. I suppose if you are using metric, that would be between 18 and 24 meters depth to keel...."

Actually, you will get occasional sonar operation at 54ft and steady operation at 55 ft. Nice thing about this is you can still see with the Attack parascope. There is no bottom limit to the device.

-Pv-

[Iron Budokan]

My radar won't even TURN ON.....

Same here. And I bought a set with my renown in Pearl! What's the point if I can't turn it on? Argh! :damn:

Of course, if I had a decent manual or even PDF documentation which might explain some of this. Oh, what's the use. :roll:

[LukeFF]

Question here: when I click on the "Estimate range to contact" switch, my sonarman gives me no response. Only when I click on the Menu button will he give me a contact. If so, shouldn't this be reported as a bug?

[MadMike]

Fleet subs moving very slowly decks awash (in good seas) or at radar deptch would be able to detect contacts using their top mounted hydrophones.
However, a sub at periscope depth would readily detect contacts (provided conditions were acceptable and sea life didn't interfere). Another SH4 bug!

More info here-

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

Yours, Mike

[DeePsix501]

I was fiddling with my radar today. I know how to use the sweeping SJ Radar but how does the PPI (PIP?) radar, the next scope over, work? I thought I had figured but i'm not quite sure. I was fiddling around changing the range on it and such but I dont seem to understand the varying spikes on the scope

Would Someone kindly enlighten me? :know:

[Seadogs]

I was fiddling with my radar today. I know how to use the sweeping SJ Radar but how does the PPI (PIP?) radar, the next scope over, work? I thought I had figured but i'm not quite sure. I was fiddling around changing the range on it and such but I dont seem to understand the varying spikes on the scope

Would Someone kindly enlighten me? :know:

Well first off, they are backwards from the manual and the command bar shortcuts. The PPI(plan position indicator) is the sweep, the A-scope is the line with spikes.:yep:

I have not fiddled with the A-scope much in the game but operation should entail rotating the beam until you get a contact(spikes). The position of the spikes along the line should indicate range.

Heres an example of another PPI I get to work on:
http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/Seadogs-USN-/?action=view&current=Bild4412.jpg

And use :arrgh!:
http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/Seadogs-USN-/?action=view&current=mk45shot.jpg

[Front Runner]

Range rings on radar? I don't see 'em but one of Neal's Screenies with the smilie faces shows range rings.

[LukeFF]

Does the check box in the notepad at the sound station have any other purpose than to identify a contact and to get a range via sonar? Does it, perhaps, track that selected contact once you click the box (which doesn't seem to be the case)?

[clayton]

My radar won't even TURN ON.....

What kind of sub are you driving?

[akdavis]

Radar was certainly the single most important technology to the success of the submarine campaign in the Pacific. That is in such a poor state in the game is a true shame.

Neal I'm not sure the SD Radar is working as intended, I'm on my first patrol and used some reknown to install an SD Radar unit.....Now this should only be able to pick up aircraft......Hum well it also has the magical ability to pick up surface craft as well.......I like the way when it picks up an aircraft the icon is a ship box untill classified but, hey i dont want to stay around on the surface for that long....Bug report the SD radar whilst working is NON-Functional in game, meaning there IS no radar installed..The sd screen is blank...(Yes I did try and turn it on)... I'll test some more but it has definately picked up a surface ship for me.... Got the operstor message...Contact bearing blah blah...Long range....Turned out to be an American Tanker......

Deep Six

Yup, that's the way it works. My first patrol, used my school reknown for SD radar. Headed for Tokyo. Thing picks up everything - aircraft and ships. They remain unidentified on the map (grey ship icons) until visually identified, but it sees them and at extreme ranges, and are called out as contacts by the RO. Had dozens of long distance ship contacts called out in the multiple harbors enroute to Tokyo.

Here's the current theory I am operating on: there is no difference between SD and SJ/SJ-1 radar other than that the displays and tool bar commands are made active if your sub is equipped with SJ or SJ-1 radar (and with no apparent distinction between those two types, either). There is much evidence that this is the case:

1. SD radar returns the same information as SJ radar, including bearing and range (that the range is exact can be seen with map contact updates on), and seems to have the same area of coverage.
2. When equipped with SJ radar, but the radar is turned off, you continue to receive the same radar contact reports as if you had it switched on. The displays simply turn off and the command bar returns to the default no radar/SD radar state.
3. Both A-scope and PPI SJ radar displays show air contacts just as readily as surface contacts.

Now the simple test would be to equip a sub with SJ radar, but not SD radar and place it in a situation like the artillery training mission and see what happens. I don't see how to change the sub's configuration via the mission editor or the mission .cfg file, so I'm not quite sure how to go about that.

Does the check box in the notepad at the sound station have any other purpose than to identify a contact and to get a range via sonar? Does it, perhaps, track that selected contact once you click the box (which doesn't seem to be the case)?

Luke, rotate the sonar head until it is facing your desired contact and the sound signal is strongest. While the contact is clearly heard on the current bearing, hit the range to target switch on the left side of the console. The needle on the ring will travel in a clockwise direction. If the ping connects with the target, you will hear a return on the ping and the needle will stop. Where the needle stops on the ring is the range. (But the textures are crappy and the numbers are hard to read. I believe they are in hundreds of yards).

If the target is close and rapidly changing bearing, the current bearing of the hydrophone might not return an active ping sent out. Once you establish the target's relative motion, you can "lead" with the hydrophone a bit to ensure a clean return on your first ping.

[Mylander]

Could somebody sticky this thread please?

Thanks,
Mylander

[akdavis]

Maybe this is another piece in the puzzle, or maybe radar depth is just arbitrary for all types, but if you submerge to cover the SD radar, but leave the SJ radar antenna exposed, you can continue to see air contacts on both PPI and A-scope displays. (Of course, SD antenna continues to rotate underwater, so I doubt the sim considers it "off").

[joea]

Could somebody sticky this thread please?

Thanks,
Mylander

Already done (with other threads)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931

[horrgakx]

When your ship is at this depth, cut all engines by pressing the ` key. (Upper left of keyboard next to the number "1".)


Thats a big gripe I've got with whomever designs the keyboard shortcuts in games - that key is located to the left of the "1" key .... on US keyboards. On our UK layouts (and probably Europe as well * ) it is located between the "L" and "Enter" buttons, alongside our @ symbol. Please bear this in mind when telling people which keys to use, it can instill confusion.



Dave


* OMG there are places outside the US?????!

[Front Runner]

Anyone know how to get range rings to show up?

[LukeFF]

Does the check box in the notepad at the sound station have any other purpose than to identify a contact and to get a range via sonar? Does it, perhaps, track that selected contact once you click the box (which doesn't seem to be the case)?
Luke, rotate the sonar head until it is facing your desired contact and the sound signal is strongest. While the contact is clearly heard on the current bearing, hit the range to target switch on the left side of the console. The needle on the ring will travel in a clockwise direction. If the ping connects with the target, you will hear a return on the ping and the needle will stop. Where the needle stops on the ring is the range. (But the textures are crappy and the numbers are hard to read. I believe they are in hundreds of yards).

Right, I understand that fine. My question was more along the lines of, does the check box on the notepad do anything than tell the sound man what type of contact he is listening to?

[LukeFF]

Bump to my question above and a new one:

In what measurement system are the range settings on the PPI display given? Yards? Feet? Meters? (please, no!)

[BlackSpot]

Bump to my question above and a new one:

In what measurement system are the range settings on the PPI display given? Yards? Feet? Meters? (please, no!)

I think it's furlongs:D
(1 furlong = 201.16800 mtrs)

[PopManiac]

Sorry, I may be raising a subject already covered but:

In my first patrol in 1941, I use some renown pts and refit my boat with radar.

When I am at sea, I get contact reports from the radar operator, yet when I access the radar room (F9) I see no contacts on the scope, nor am I able to turn radar on / off.

Have we already covered this? Apologies in advance if so...

[Egan]

Bump to my question above and a new one:

In what measurement system are the range settings on the PPI display given? Yards? Feet? Meters? (please, no!)

It should be in yards, I think, but it is difficult to be sure. I've certainly been working on the assumption that it is in yards.

[Egan]

Sorry, I may be raising a subject already covered but:

In my first patrol in 1941, I use some renown pts and refit my boat with radar.

When I am at sea, I get contact reports from the radar operator, yet when I access the radar room (F9) I see no contacts on the scope, nor am I able to turn radar on / off.

Have we already covered this? Apologies in advance if so...

The only radar you would have that early in the war is SD, the air search radar. There is no station for that - the operator will simply tell you if he has a contact. The station you can get to is for the SJ radar. You won't be able to use this at all until you get one fitted later in the war.

[horrgakx]

I hate these acronyms & abreviations. Why not call them "Air radar". Or "Sea radar". :doh:

[Egan]

I hate these acronyms & abreviations. Why not call them "Air radar". Or "Sea radar". :doh:

Because they were called SD and SJ radar i expect. :p

[orangenee]

I'm having the same problem that others are having I too bought the SD radar, but how the hell do you get it to work, I'm driving a Porpoise ATM, having just started a career.

[SteamWake]

I'm having the same problem that others are having I too bought the SD radar, but how the hell do you get it to work, I'm driving a Porpoise ATM, having just started a career.

Well uhhh its kind of "broken" as of patch 1.2

[orangenee]

I'm having the same problem that others are having I too bought the SD radar, but how the hell do you get it to work, I'm driving a Porpoise ATM, having just started a career.
Well uhhh its kind of "broken" as of patch 1.2

Yeah I just checked out a couple of other threads and they said pretty much the same thing, not to worry I've only had the game a couple of days, and non-functioning radar is the least of my worries.

[Mav87th]

Bump to my question above and a new one:

In what measurement system are the range settings on the PPI display given? Yards? Feet? Meters? (please, no!)

It should be in yards, I think, but it is difficult to be sure. I've certainly been working on the assumption that it is in yards.

The PPI shows YARDS.

To convert to Nautical Miles (nm) you need to dived the range in yards with 2025 or just 2000 to make it easy.

I have found if you stop the beam right on the contact and then line the PPI up so the buttom of the station is horizontal, you can then take a pice of paper and line it up with the peak and read the more correct range from the scale. Now click on the A-scope and line that one up. Take transparent bearing tool and read the bearing off it. With out touching anything press the keyshortcut for navigationsmap - the radar operator now says the bearing to the contact so you can check that with the one you read your self.

Now plot it.

[Hitman]

I have found if you stop the beam right on the contact and then line the PPI up so the buttom of the station is horizontal, you can then take a pice of paper and line it up with the peak and read the more correct range from the scale. Now click on the A-scope and line that one up. Take transparent bearing tool and read the bearing off it. With out touching anything press the keyshortcut for navigationsmap - the radar operator now says the bearing to the contact so you can check that with the one you read your self.

Now plot it.

Many thanks for the tip:up:

Unfortunately it is a poor substitute for proper range circles:cry:

[rhohltjr]

Since 1.3 my SD radar has kept me from being strafed or bombed by aircraft.

I built up enough points and with a newer boat, got a SJ radar in addition to my SD.

Now I am back to having aircraft right on top of me again (like pre 1.3).
I think I know how to turn the things on, and turn continuous sweep or single sweep on. Yet I am still bounced by the aircraft now that I have the SD & SJ.
That just doesn't seem right to me:gulp: .

Can one of you ole salts produce a video newbie guide to radars(SD + SJ) for training us radar retards! :ping: (does a video like this exist already?)

Thanks,

rhohltjr

[John Channing]

The problem you are having is built into the game.

The game can only use one sensor at a time. If you are using the SD radar (which is automatically on whenever you are in the boat) to look for planes then all is good. However, once you turn on the SJ Radar to look for Surface Contacts (which is the "manable" station), then the game won't see the SD Radar anymore and planes can sneak in.

It is what it is.

JCC

[rhohltjr]

The problem you are having is built into the game.

.....
It is what it is.

JCC

So in real WW2 boats the SD and the SJ could be used together? In that case it seems we have twice as many 'Sparky' crewmen in the conning tower than we need:hmm:. We only need the SD operator since you operate the SJ manually. Edit: Oops, forgot about the Sonar!

Perhaps I shall replace the extra Sparky crewmen with Torpedo guys since I need a lot of them:rolleyes:.

Thanks anyway.

[LukeFF]

The problem you are having is built into the game.

The game can only use one sensor at a time. If you are using the SD radar (which is automatically on whenever you are in the boat) to look for planes then all is good. However, once you turn on the SJ Radar to look for Surface Contacts (which is the "manable" station), then the game won't see the SD Radar anymore and planes can sneak in.

Ehm, not quite. I've had multiple radar contacts come in from the SD radar set while the SJ was on at the same time. Easy way to tell if it's an SD radar contact is to go to the PPI display and see if you can pick up any blips on the screen. If you can't see any contacts at the long range setting or see contacts that are rapidly changing course and bearing, then it's an aircraft contact (SJ radar could pick up aircraft contacts, but not very reliably).

[rhohltjr]

Thanks LukeFF and JChanning,

My issue is that with only the v1.3 SD radar I was NEVER attacked by aircraft. Even when going 7600x in time compression, the SD pulls the time compression down to 8x which I then stop and figure what the 'bogey' is. When I click on the unknown 'bogey' it usually says 'very fast' so that is my first clue about it being an aircraft. Japanese hovercraft and hydroplanes very limited in WW2 IIRC:rotfl:.

With the SD + SJ combo I am subject to aircraft attacks again which makes the SJ totally worthless for me:down: . It's not like I wasn't finding anything to shoot at using only sonar contacts.

regards,

rhohltjr:cool:

[John Channing]

The problem you are having is built into the game.

The game can only use one sensor at a time. If you are using the SD radar (which is automatically on whenever you are in the boat) to look for planes then all is good. However, once you turn on the SJ Radar to look for Surface Contacts (which is the "manable" station), then the game won't see the SD Radar anymore and planes can sneak in.

Ehm, not quite. I've had multiple radar contacts come in from the SD radar set while the SJ was on at the same time. Easy way to tell if it's an SD radar contact is to go to the PPI display and see if you can pick up any blips on the screen. If you can't see any contacts at the long range setting or see contacts that are rapidly changing course and bearing, then it's an aircraft contact (SJ radar could pick up aircraft contacts, but not very reliably).



Both of the mannable stations are SJ Radar, one PPI and one A scope, bit both are SD only. There is no manable station for SD. I believe that the only place that SD (air) contacts show up is on your Nav Map screen. So you showing simultaneous SD and SJ radar contacts on the Nav Map screen?

JCC

[LukeFF]

Both of the mannable stations are SJ Radar, one PPI and one A scope, bit both are SD only. There is no manable station for SD. I believe that the only place that SD (air) contacts show up is on your Nav Map screen. So you showing simultaneous SD and SJ radar contacts on the Nav Map screen?

No, I never see them on the Nav Map screen, but sometimes, if the aircraft is within range of the SJ radar's frequency and at the right altitude, they will show up on the PPI display. They're easy to identify - they change bearing and range rapidly. It doesn't always happen, but I've seen it happen enough to be convinced the SJ and SD radar sets do in fact function properly when they're both switched on.

[aussie_1]

hey guys

i woud like to say thanks to you all for the answers lol i have been fiddling wid the sonar for a lil and reading this forum has helped alot:up:

[TrtSmrt]

What sonar returns as a range in metric units?? Is it actually feet... cause i was pinging some merchs and they were at 14000 of something... so I think wow my sonar guy is great cause it can hear something from 14km away???
Also... first time when i used 100% realism i began to draw course and distance acc to sonar bearing and range ('42 so no SD radar yet) only to discover that i am well into sight range and those guys started to open fire... i was close as hell...
Sometin's wrong here....?!

[Sandman_28054]

Here is a question for ya.

What is the SV radar?

I have the SJ-1, is there an advantage to upgrading to the SV?

[Orion2012]

Here is a question for ya.

What is the SV radar?

I have the SJ-1, is there an advantage to upgrading to the SV?

SV does detect Surface contacts, to some degree.

[Sandman_28054]

Here is a question for ya.

What is the SV radar?

I have the SJ-1, is there an advantage to upgrading to the SV?

SV does detect Surface contacts, to some degree.

Well, I found out that the difference is one is just a mast (SD radar) with anntenna:

http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/graphics/sd_ant_2.jpg


And the new is a rotating radar array (SV Radar) just like the Surface Search Radar.

Now I have two of these sitting on top of my sub:

http://www.maritime.org/img/radio-svant.gif

The SV radar is the tall one on the extended mast.

According to the info I read on the internet:


Description.-An 8 cm. aircraft warning radar for use on submarines to supersede the SD.
SV-1 has instantaneous automatic volume control, fast time constant. Also uses SS indicating unit.

Source: http://www.maritime.org/radio-sv.htm

Although, I don't know if I have this also:

http://www.maritime.org/img/radio-svppi.gif
SV Radar PPI.
http://www.maritime.org/img/radio-svrange.gif
SV Range Indicator

Anybody know if you get these?

[LukeFF]

SV Radar is modeled in-game, however, the display screen is not modeled. It's an upgrade from SD radar. Its main historical advantages over SD radar were its ability to detect low-flying aircraft (those below 1,000 feet) and to give a bearing to the target. However, since we have no functional radar display for air search radar and the game gives one the bearing to any target picked up by SD, there is little advantage to upgrading from SD to SV radar.

[jazzabilly]

Currently on my 1st war patrol in USS Tambor with the air search radar- renown well spent as we have had many contacts from roving hostiles. The radar operators seem pretty competent.

Sonar on the other hand, I have had to handle myself from time to time when the operator isn't doing his job. Generally, he does, however. Much improved over the barely competent fellows I had in the U-Boat service.

[Sandman_28054]

Currently on my 1st war patrol in USS Tambor with the air search radar- renown well spent as we have had many contacts from roving hostiles. The radar operators seem pretty competent.

Sonar on the other hand, I have had to handle myself from time to time when the operator isn't doing his job. Generally, he does, however. Much improved over the barely competent fellows I had in the U-Boat service.

So I take it, you are playing the SH4 with the U-Boat add ons?

I was informed the Tambor class subs were not available in SH4 Wolves of the Pacific alone.

[LukeFF]

I was informed the Tambor class subs were not available in SH4 Wolves of the Pacific alone.

You were informed wrongly. ;)

[Sandman_28054]

I was informed the Tambor class subs were not available in SH4 Wolves of the Pacific alone.

You were informed wrongly. ;)

Well, its currently February 15, 1945 and I have yet to see this boat.

In this thread:

Link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=145482) to "Boat Question"

I asked:


I have played SH4 through 3 careers, currently on my 4th. I could not make it all the way through the previous 3 because of virus' or something of that nature.

But, I'm currently in about 10/43. Stationed in Perth-Freemantle.

Now the old community manual for SH3 listed when new boats were available and what ports they were available in.

My question is, when are the "new" boats available, and where?

I seen in the manual that came with the book the Tambor class was available in 1943, but it does not say when or where.

Does anybody know when and where all the boat classes were available?

Thanks.


To wit, these replies came:


Balao is top of the line in the game.


Then I asked:

Then the "Tambor" is not offered?

And this was the answer I got:


Correct, it is not.


So what i related was true to the best of my knowledge.

[Fincuan]

I've yet to see en elephant live, which means they don't exist right?

The Tambor is a pre-war class of boats, and unless you start in an S-Class it's unlikely you ever get offered it mid-career. You can start a new career in one though.

[rjmerit]

So if I'm using stock 1.4 how do I get my air search radar to work when I have both air and surface radars installed? I find that I detect contacts until my surface radar hits something and then after that I can't detect aircraft at all.

[WarlordATF]

I just started having a problem with my Radar. Its Aug 1943 and I'm commanding the Porpoise Class USS Shark.

After completing my last patrol i got the late war conning tower upgrade and of course my Radar,AA and Deck Guns had to be purchased again. Well now my Radar won't work. I have seen a few threads about this but never found out if anyone has solved this Issue.

I have tried adding both SJ and SJ-1 Radars and neither will work. So before i edit out all the conning tower upgrades altogether and just assign each boat the tower i want, Does anyone know of a fix for this issue?

Thanks!

[Ruff EL]

I just started having a problem with my Radar. Its Aug 1943 and I'm commanding the Porpoise Class USS Shark.

After completing my last patrol i got the late war conning tower upgrade and of course my Radar,AA and Deck Guns had to be purchased again. Well now my Radar won't work. I have seen a few threads about this but never found out if anyone has solved this Issue.

I have tried adding both SJ and SJ-1 Radars and neither will work. So before i edit out all the conning tower upgrades altogether and just assign each boat the tower i want, Does anyone know of a fix for this issue?

Thanks!

im bumping this last post....i do believe it just happened to me with a conning tower upgrade. I played a TMO only campaign and was never offered a conning tower upgrade, and by consequence i believe the radar bug was never an issue and i had both sets working properly.

Now im running a TMO and RSRD campaign and just received my first tower upgrade, had to reinstall all radars, and boom, only my SD radar works with a SJ set that is inert!.......did this ever get fixed outside of TMO? and if so, how do I modify the files to go back to that?