A problem with minimum specs

[Reckall]

I got the full boxed copy of Silent Hunter IV from my magazine, for review purposes, on March 15th (so I can imagine how some stores had it earlier :) ). However, since my main PC is at the repair shop, I had to try it on my older one (a desktop).

And here comes the problem. With these specs:

Intel P4 3,04 GHz
1GB RAM
Radeon 9800 SE 128MB RAM
latest drivers for everything, fully defragged HD

the game is totally unplayable.

I'm talking about a framerate <1 with *all the graphic options turned down* :o

If I go to a screen with no 3D rendering (i.e. the map screen) fluidity returns normal, but as soon as the game has to show a 3D ambient on screen (periscope, sub interior, bridge...) fluidity drops again like a rock. I would stress again how this happens with all graphic options turned down - included the screen resolution.

On the same system I played SH3 without problems, and I actually reinstalled it just to check: fluidity for SH3 is just fine - so it is for other games ranging from IL-2 Sturmovik to Neverwinter Nights 2 (of course by reducing the graphic quality accordingly)

So, while waiting for my "monster" to return from the repair shop, my doubt is: should I look for some problem specific to my system, or the minimum specs printed by Ubisoft on the box simply are not enough? According to them, you should be able to play SHIV on a 2GHz PC with a Radeon 9600 - but it doesn't seem to be the case :-?

Of course, since I'll review the game, I'll do some extensive checks on a variety of systems - but what is the general experience on the forum just now?

Thanks,

Vince

[StandingCow]

This is one thing I forgot to mention in the piracy thread.. another reason the game market is hurting is incorrect min specs on games... people go out, spend whatever on a game, and cannot play it.

[TDK1044]

In Ubisoft's defence, there is another poster who is playing the game with an Nvidia 6800 series video card, a P4 3.0 processor and 1 GIG of RAM, and his game plays fine according to him.

[Gammel]

If you know how to switch to a different driver for your graphics card without wrecking your whole system (use ati`s uninstall all tool in your prg. files folder)
try a different version.
This link has several catalyst version listed, first give the 5.10 version a try, after that try 6.5 beta
edit - heres the link: ;-)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=18
I´d also make a directx reinstall.

Even with your not so up to date VGA you should see more than one frame, sound like a driver bug / incompatibility

Do you have SH3 too on the machine installed? Does it run well?
Sorry, should have read your posting better, indeed you have SH3 installed...

[Prientje]

I got the full boxed copy of Silent Hunter IV from my magazine, for review purposes, on March 15th (so I can imagine how some stores had it earlier :) ). However, since my main PC is at the repair shop, I had to try it on my older one (a desktop).

And here comes the problem. With these specs:

Intel P4 3,04 GHz
1GB RAM
Radeon 9800 SE 128MB RAM
latest drivers for everything, fully defragged HD

the game is totally unplayable.

I'm talking about a framerate <1 with *all the graphic options turned down* :o

If I go to a screen with no 3D rendering (i.e. the map screen) fluidity returns normal, but as soon as the game has to show a 3D ambient on screen (periscope, sub interior, bridge...) fluidity drops again like a rock. I would stress again how this happens with all graphic options turned down - included the screen resolution.

On the same system I played SH3 without problems, and I actually reinstalled it just to check: fluidity for SH3 is just fine - so it is for other games ranging from IL-2 Sturmovik to Neverwinter Nights 2 (of course by reducing the graphic quality accordingly)

So, while waiting for my "monster" to return from the repair shop, my doubt is: should I look for some problem specific to my system, or the minimum specs printed by Ubisoft on the box simply are not enough? According to them, you should be able to play SHIV on a 2GHz PC with a Radeon 9600 - but it doesn't seem to be the case :-?

Of course, since I'll review the game, I'll do some extensive checks on a variety of systems - but what is the general experience on the forum just now?

Thanks,

Vince

your pc specs are ok and good enough to play the game

it can only be a driver incompatibility

check your graphic with dxdiag

[Drebbel]

I know a guy who has a P4 2.4 GHz cpu and the game plays fine with 1 GB mem.

He did upgrade his AGP video card for a fast on. A X1650 Pro with 512 mem, for about 120US$

I do not know how high he has the settings in the graphics menu.

[ReallyDedPoet]

You should expect what you get when buying based on minimum specs:yep:

[TDK1044]

You should expect what you get when buying based on minimum specs:yep:

I kinda agree with you, but let's remember that we in the subsim Forums represent about 3 percent of total sales based on the Silent Hunter 3 figures. The vast majority of the other 97 percent pick up the box in a retail store and buy it because it would be fun to play a WWII submarine game. To those people, the minimum specs on the box means 'my machine will play this game with no problems'.

Most of those folks have no concept of patches, mods, driver upgrades etc. All they know is that they have what it says on the box, and they purchase based on that fact.

[Reckall]

If you know how to switch to a different driver for your graphics card without wrecking your whole system (use ati`s uninstall all tool in your prg. files folder)
try a different version.
This link has several catalyst version listed, first give the 5.10 version a try, after that try 6.5 beta
edit - heres the link: ;-)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=18
I´d also make a directx reinstall.


Gammel,

thanks for the hints. I uninstalled my current Catalyst drivers (dated Feb 2007) and tried both you suggestions: no joy, the game still runs at 1 FpS (or less!) on my system.

Now, since I'm playing it for a review, I'll have to test it on different systems, so to check if the problem is due to some uncompatibility specific to my PC or it is due to a more general incompatibility of the software to some combinations of hardware/drivers.

To reallydedpoet,

I didn't buy the game, it was sent to me by my magazine for the review, sorry! :D

However, this is the very reason why I must investigate any possibile technical problems so to warn the readers about them. I have it since Mar, 15th and I still wasn't able to play it on a PC formally within the specs. My main PC will be back this evening, so I hope to be able to finally enjoy it.

[ReallyDedPoet]

You should expect what you get when buying based on minimum specs:yep:

To those people, the minimum specs on the box means 'my machine will play this game with no problems'.



Good points TDK. Hopefully more people will come to understand minimum specs means that the game will play on min settings. A hard lesson to learn, but when buying any game, this one or others, specs to play the game are usually are at their lowest as to drive sales.

This is a pipe-dream, but it would be nice to see companies post rec. settings more often.

[Onkel Neal]

Ahoy Reckall,

Drebbel listed my system specs above, it's a 4 year old PC (don't ask, I'm poor). There must be some problem. I played all week and weekend and have not experienced any sustained, significant slowdowns. Once in a while it will bog down some, to 10-15 fps or so, but only when there are lots of planes and ships (Midway). I have the graphics options set about midway; sliders on left side in the middle, some of the check boxes checked. Can't say which exact ones, I have been experiementing.

Neal
Subsim

[devastat]

It really makes me sad, that my laptop fulfills all the technical requirements, besides the fact that a 128mb video card is required. Phoned Dell yesterday to try to get a new videocard (my current is 64mb - Geforce go fx 5300), but according to them, it is not possible to get 128mb video card to my dell inspiron 8500 laptop!!!

So it seems now that i will be unable to play the game and have to stick with my SH3:damn: .

Does anyone think there is anyway to get the game to work with a 64mb videocard? :roll:

[ReallyDedPoet]

If you know how to switch to a different driver for your graphics card without wrecking your whole system (use ati`s uninstall all tool in your prg. files folder)
try a different version.
This link has several catalyst version listed, first give the 5.10 version a try, after that try 6.5 beta
edit - heres the link: ;-)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=18
I´d also make a directx reinstall.

Gammel,

thanks for the hints. I uninstalled my current Catalyst drivers (dated Feb 2007) and tried both you suggestions: no joy, the game still runs at 1 FpS (or less!) on my system.

Now, since I'm playing it for a review, I'll have to test it on different systems, so to check if the problem is due to some uncompatibility specific to my PC or it is due to a more general incompatibility of the software to some combinations of hardware/drivers.

To reallydedpoet,

I didn't buy the game, it was sent to me by my magazine for the review, sorry! :D

However, this is the very reason why I must investigate any possibile technical problems so to warn the readers about them. I have it since Mar, 15th and I still wasn't able to play it on a PC formally within the specs. My main PC will be back this evening, so I hope to be able to finally enjoy it.

Ok Reckall, thanks for the clarification. I posted this earlier, I wish companies would post recc. settings as opposed to general or minimum specs:yep: I know I am dreaming here, but it would be nice.

[Rilder]

Ahoy Reckall,

Drebbel listed my system specs above, it's a 4 year old PC (don't ask, I'm poor). There must be some problem. I played all week and weekend and have not experienced any sustained, significant slowdowns. Once in a while it will bog down some, to 10-15 fps or so, but only when there are lots of planes and ships (Midway). I have the graphics options set about midway; sliders on left side in the middle, some of the check boxes checked. Can't say which exact ones, I have been experiementing.

Neal
Subsim

Awesome now I know my computer will play Sh4 with no problems, my computers just a few months older then a year and a half. :D

[stabiz]

I would never buy a game where my hardware barely reached minimum requirements (as stated, minimum requirements are often set lower than they should be), since matching recommended requirements is the only way you`ll get to enjoy the full experience.

[devastat]

It really makes me sad, that my laptop fulfills all the technical requirements, besides the fact that a 128mb memory card is required. Phoned Dell yesterday to try to get a new videocard (my current is 64mb), but according to them, it is not possible to get 128mb video card to my dell inspiron 8500 laptop!!!

So it seems now that i will be unable to play the game and have to stick with my SH3:damn: .

Does anyone think there is anyway to get the game to work with 64mb videocard? :roll:

[danlisa]

It really makes me sad, that my laptop fulfills all the technical requirements, besides the fact that a 128mb memory card is required. Phoned Dell yesterday to try to get a new videocard (my current is 64mb), but according to them, it is not possible to get 128mb video card to my dell inspiron 8500 laptop!!!

So it seems now that i will be unable to play the game and have to stick with my SH3:damn: .

Does anyone think there is anyway to get the game to work with 64mb videocard? :roll:

It's entirely possible after examining the files that there might be a way to reduce the graphics load.

For example, changing the sea bed texture, reducing the resolution of Ship/Sub texture.

There are, however no promises.

[Gammel]

Sorry changing drivers did not work, hope your computer is still fine. :oops::D

If you´re still in mood of doing funny stuff to your computer, go into your system bios and try playing aroud with a funktion called "AGP aperature size"or something like that...
If it´s set on 64MB increase the value to 256 and try again with the game. Dont forget to save the setting before exiting bios. As far as i know it´s very unlikely that changing that setting could harm anything on your pc or cause major problems, but do it at your own risk. ;)
Perhaps it´s a good idea before doing any more configuration change to make a complete backup of your harddisk.



Did you tried to turn off all ingame sounds (dont know if even possible)

lowering sound hardware acceleration did help some SH3 players with problems...

good luck!:D

[geetrue]

I bet it's just the video card ... the 128mb ram is the real problem. Neal's video card is faster in all the other areas especially the 512mb of video ram.

Computers need balance between all of it's componets, cpu, memory, video, sound, hdd ... like a fine racing car they neeed to be tuned.

He'll be back with a good report I'm sure of this ... well with frame rates at least.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have come across this before, but cannot seem to find it, an online scanner that checks your computer to see if it will run a specific game:hmm:

Does someone know of such a site, one that gives more than the min. specs to run the game, rather rec. specs:yep: Might be worth it to post.

[ACSoft]

It is the never ending chase between hardware technology improvements and software technology improvements who immediately "eat" the hardware progress with their new codes !!!

Personnaly, I would love that software developers stay always a "bit behind", to preserve the fluidity on the average PC when the game come out. But I presume the law of the market forbid that. They are always pushed to be the best !!!

Speaking of SH4, I must say it is not so bad as it is, for example, with FSX (flight Simulator X), but even my "Monster" PC take big hits during battle of Midway or into big harbors. Hits which are unfortunately visible on the screen (small stutter). Note, it is with all graphic options maxed and it was SH4 beta version.

On the other side, the good news is that the game was rock solid on this PC. Never had the smallest crash, even with multiple other tasks behind. A very good point for the SH dev team.

ACS


My PC:
Motherboard: ASUS P5W DH DELUXE
Proc: INTEL CORE DUO EXTREME (CONROE XE) 2.93GHZ
Memory: DDR2 2GB [1GBX2] DDR800 (PC2-6400) CORSAIR TWINX
Hard-disk: 2X SATA300 320GB - 7200 HITACHI DESKSTAR T7K500 (16MB)
Graphic: MSI GeForce 7900GTX 512DDR
OS: Windows XP version 2002 SP2 (french)

[danlisa]

I have come across this before, but cannot seem to find it, an online scanner that checks your computer to see if it will run a specific game:hmm:

Does someone know of such a site, one that gives more than the min. specs to run the game, rather rec. specs:yep: Might be worth it to post.

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

Well there's that one, although Silent Hunter is not listed.

[ReallyDedPoet]

On the other side, the good news is that the game was rock solid on this PC. Never had the smallest crash, even with multiple other tasks behind. A very good point for the SH dev team.

ACS


My PC:
Motherboard: ASUS P5W DH DELUXE
Proc: INTEL CORE DUO EXTREME (CONROE XE) 2.93GHZ
Memory: DDR2 2GB [1GBX2] DDR800 (PC2-6400) CORSAIR TWINX
Hard-disk: 2X SATA300 320GB - 7200 HITACHI DESKSTAR T7K500 (16MB)
Graphic: MSI GeForce 7900GTX 512DDR
OS: Windows XP version 2002 SP2 (french)

It should be, that is a rock solid PC there:up:, I am sure it also powers your house and other things:yep:

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have come across this before, but cannot seem to find it, an online scanner that checks your computer to see if it will run a specific game:hmm:

Does someone know of such a site, one that gives more than the min. specs to run the game, rather rec. specs:yep: Might be worth it to post.
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

Well there's that one, although Silent Hunter is not listed.
Thanks, maybe there are others as well:up: The bottom screen is from that site. Edit: it is just an example from that site, not from my computer.
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srl/media/srl_detail.0.0.0.gif

[Rilder]

I have come across this before, but cannot seem to find it, an online scanner that checks your computer to see if it will run a specific game:hmm:

Does someone know of such a site, one that gives more than the min. specs to run the game, rather rec. specs:yep: Might be worth it to post.

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

Well there's that one, although Silent Hunter is not listed.

Dang I wanted to use it but for some reason active x controls don't work (doesn't even prompt to allow use and I have all active-x stuff set to prompt or enable...

[danlisa]

It's abit touchy with IE but works fine with Firefox & Opera. Although you may need to check your Active X Security settings.

[Rilder]

It's abit touchy with IE but works fine with Firefox & Opera. Although you may need to check your Active X Security settings.

Like I said all set to prompt or enable. Might end up being forced to download firefox :nope:

[Mad Professor]

This is probabley a case of "Do you have dual channel memory enabled by having two matching model sticks of ram? or Does your motherboard support dual channel at all?"

Everybody assumes everyone's got a decent computer. Sadly not all of us have a decent computer.

He probably has a PC so old *means HIS crappy backup one*, it runs on pc133 sdram 168 pin slots. Or if he's lucky he has DDR200/266/333 184 pin slots with no Dual Channel support. It can run SH3 fine because the specs allow it to run minimally on a Pentium 3 or an Athlon T-bird systems. That means it can run on SD or DDR variants of memory with no problems. *Check the box for specs*

Silent hunter IV was design to run only on DDR and DDR2 systems with Dual Channel support, along with Hyper-Threading <--Intel and Amd---> Hyper-Transport *This includes future developments of memory controllers.*

It wouldn't matter if he bought the BEST VIDEO CARD IN THE WORLD! It would still be bottlenecked by the memory bandwidth/performance and processing power of a Socket 478 running at FSB *Front Side Bus* 400 or 533 with a high multipler. Example Pentium 4, 2.6ghz "Northwood" core running a 400 FSB would run 26x100 = 2.6ghz. The "100" in that equation is the actual FSB in mhz for that processor. It has 1-2 ratio processor-memory divider = 200 FSB x 2 again for Double Data Rate *DDR*, return feed = 400mhz in bandwidth.
Amd Athlon Xp family actually runs at a lower multipler and a higher but more "TRUE" FSB. Example: Athlon Xp 3200+ = 11 x 200 = 2.2ghz, 200 x 2 for Double Data rate = 400mhz return feed in bandwidth.

Unless you're unlucky and got a SDRam/168 pin slot version motherboards of a socket 478 or a 462 then it just runs at 100mhz with a memory divider for the Processor with a 4-1 ratio P4, or 2-1/1-1 AMD. Simple as that.

If you didn't understand that, let me put it in layman terms. Its still going to bottom out at the crappiest FPS *frames per second* no matter what newest or latest high end videocard you can put in your very old computer. Its going to be bottlenecked by the memory bandwidth and the processing power of your CPU.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that dual channel + size of memory is about 30-40% of your total system performance.

Now I do suggest you do the above and get the latest drivers known to date even if they had stop driver support over 3 years ago for your motherboard. The not so latest drivers from ATI for your 9800 which If I remember correctly stop support for 9x00 series card after driver version 6.5, so get something before that. Two if your powersupply hasn't been giving you problems and it rated 350 watts or higher with around 18 amps on the 12v rail, you're FINE! Another thing you can do is see if you have matching sticks of ram to enable dual channel mode or find out if your motherboard has dual channel support or the type of memory it runs.


Sorry if I sound like a total snob, but I just don't like seeing people blow their money on something thats just not going to solve the problem anyways.

[Rilder]

It's abit touchy with IE but works fine with Firefox & Opera. Although you may need to check your Active X Security settings.
Like I said all set to prompt or enable. Might end up being forced to download firefox :nope:
Well bit the poisonous pancake and did this, Woot I hit all recomended on Oblivion except the Video card which is probably between recomended and Min. Now to go uninstall this wannabe web browser :p

(wholy crap I got behind in keeping my vid. drivers up to day almost a whole 1.0 behind O.o)

[Reckall]

This is probabley a case of "Do you have dual channel memory enabled by having two matching model sticks of ram? or Does your motherboard support dual channel at all?"


If this is the problem, then it is worth mentioning how the package doesn't mention memory requirements at all except for 1GB RAM (2GB racommended). So, the average Joe able to run Oblivion and Medieval 2: Total War on my low end system (by accepting a radical toning down of the graphic quality), will think very well that his rig is still within the parameters foir SH IV.

Anyway, luckily I can do some checks on other PCs with different specs, so I hope I'll be able to see if I can identify where the bottleneck is (specific system, drivers, graphic card...) Fact is: on my rig, the "fade in" when you start a mission takes fifteen seconds :o

[P_Funk]

You should expect what you get when buying based on minimum specs:yep:
I kinda agree with you, but let's remember that we in the subsim Forums represent about 3 percent of total sales based on the Silent Hunter 3 figures. The vast majority of the other 97 percent pick up the box in a retail store and buy it because it would be fun to play a WWII submarine game. To those people, the minimum specs on the box means 'my machine will play this game with no problems'.

Most of those folks have no concept of patches, mods, driver upgrades etc. All they know is that they have what it says on the box, and they purchase based on that fact.
I think that out of the box running the minimum specs I should be able to get a complete experience.

To use a metaphor: minimum specs are like Apocalypse Now on your TV. recommended and above is like watching Apocalypse Now Redux in the theatres with sound so lound that your ears bleed.

But also compaticility is as big if not bigger of an issue as specs. If a recent ATI driver on a standard card (a 9800 series for heaven sake) then thats not very good. I mean most people use that little disc that comes with their motherboard and then they never upgrade unless their geek friend is over or something.

[ReallyDedPoet]

You should expect what you get when buying based on minimum specs:yep:
I kinda agree with you, but let's remember that we in the subsim Forums represent about 3 percent of total sales based on the Silent Hunter 3 figures. The vast majority of the other 97 percent pick up the box in a retail store and buy it because it would be fun to play a WWII submarine game. To those people, the minimum specs on the box means 'my machine will play this game with no problems'.

Most of those folks have no concept of patches, mods, driver upgrades etc. All they know is that they have what it says on the box, and they purchase based on that fact. I think that out of the box running the minimum specs I should be able to get a complete experience.

To use a metaphor: minimum specs are like Apocalypse Now on your TV. recommended and above is like watching Apocalypse Now Redux in the theatres with sound so lound that your ears bleed.

But also compaticility is as big if not bigger of an issue as specs. If a recent ATI driver on a standard card (a 9800 series for heaven sake) then thats not very good. I mean most people use that little disc that comes with their motherboard and then they never upgrade unless their geek friend is over or something.

But minimum specs and complete experience just don't seem to go together.

However at the end of the day the complete experience is all so individualized. Some folks want eye-candy, some playability, some both. I am sure lots of folks will get this, tone it down to run it on their system, but will be ok with this until they upgrade their computer.

[NefariousKoel]

I have come across this before, but cannot seem to find it, an online scanner that checks your computer to see if it will run a specific game:hmm:

Does someone know of such a site, one that gives more than the min. specs to run the game, rather rec. specs:yep: Might be worth it to post.
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

Well there's that one, although Silent Hunter is not listed.
Thanks, maybe there are others as well:up: The bottom screen is from that site.

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srl/media/srl_detail.0.0.0.gif

That's integrated (on-board) video. You're lucky if it even runs any 3d game.

[Mad Professor]

This is probabley a case of "Do you have dual channel memory enabled by having two matching model sticks of ram? or Does your motherboard support dual channel at all?"

If this is the problem, then it is worth mentioning how the package doesn't mention memory requirements at all except for 1GB RAM (2GB racommended). So, the average Joe able to run Oblivion and Medieval 2: Total War on my low end system (by accepting a radical toning down of the graphic quality), will think very well that his rig is still within the parameters foir SH IV.

Anyway, luckily I can do some checks on other PCs with different specs, so I hope I'll be able to see if I can identify where the bottleneck is (specific system, drivers, graphic card...) Fact is: on my rig, the "fade in" when you start a mission takes fifteen seconds :o
Because Developers of "TODAY" assume that You're at least running a Pentium D or Athlon 64 939/940 systems and both have Dual channel + Hyper "T" technology, Therefore no need to put it on the back of the box.

Its a "DAMN IF YOU DO AND DAMN IF YOU DON'T!"

[Rilder]

Thanks, maybe there are others as well:up: The bottom screen is from that site.

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srl/media/srl_detail.0.0.0.gif

That's integrated (on-board) video. You're lucky if it even runs any 3d game.

Thats not his, its from the first page of the site showing an expample of the report it gives you

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks Rilder:up:, it was just an example of some of the stuff that site spits out:yep:

[flintlock]

I think that out of the box running the minimum specs I should be able to get a complete experience. In reality, minimum specs are simply the bare minimum you require in order to launch the title and have load and actually run, performance notwithstanding. If you're after a more playable experience, look at the "recommended specs." To enjoy a "complete experience," realistically look to be comfortably above the recommended specs.

The above has been my experience, YMMV.