Unlawful and Criminal Friendly Fire

[Letum]

After 4 years of investigation, the Coroner, in the case of the "friendly fire" incident which killed Lance Corporal Matty Hull, 25, has concluded that the killing was "unlawful", "criminal" and "entirely avoidable". He said that "The attack on the convoy amounted to an assault".
The deputy coroner added, "I don't think this was a case of honest mistake.".


The Coroner also noted that the lack of cooperation from the US was "very disappointing" due to their refusal to provide evidence and witnesses despite requests.


A spokesman from the UK's MoD said: "This inquest has highlighted the need for a more coherent approach to the management of documentation and evidence."


The conclusion of the investigation was is in contradiction the the USA's own investigation., which may explain the US's evidence and whiteness black-out.


The family of Lance Corporal Matty Hull have decided not to press charges
against anyone one in the US military.




I don't know what to make of this yet.

[SUBMAN1]

??? Link please?

[Letum]

??? Link please?
Link to what?
I heard it on the radio....I guess there are plenty of news sites covering it.

*edit* here ya go....front page news on the BBC.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6449227.stm

[SUBMAN1]

??? Link please?
Link to what?
I heard it on the radio....I guess there are plenty of news sites covering it.

*edit* here ya go....front page news on the BBC.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6449227.stm

Yeah - that is too bad. I can see how it could happen though - If you've played Falcon 4 before, you can see how easy it would be to make a mistake like this. Fracticide has always been a fact of warfare, and a pilot who is under a lot of stress probably has an even easier time of commiting it.

-S

[Letum]

??? Link please?
Link to what?
I heard it on the radio....I guess there are plenty of news sites covering it.

*edit* here ya go....front page news on the BBC.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6449227.stm
Yeah - that is too bad. I can see how it could happen though - If you've played Falcon 4 before, you can see how easy it would be to make a mistake like this. Fracticide has always been a fact of warfare, and a pilot who is under a lot of stress probably has an even easier time of commiting it.

-S

Yes, but the main concluion of the investigation was that it was "entirely avoidable" and not "a case of honest mistake.".

[SUBMAN1]

??? Link please?
Link to what?
I heard it on the radio....I guess there are plenty of news sites covering it.

*edit* here ya go....front page news on the BBC.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6449227.stm
Yeah - that is too bad. I can see how it could happen though - If you've played Falcon 4 before, you can see how easy it would be to make a mistake like this. Fracticide has always been a fact of warfare, and a pilot who is under a lot of stress probably has an even easier time of commiting it.

-S
Yes, but the main concluion of the investigation was that it was "entirely avoidable" and not"a case of honest mistake.".

I beleive all of them are entirely avoidable - throw some stress in there though and maybe that changes things around a bit. Maybe the solution is to take the man out of the cockpit? This is where we are heading.

-S

[Letum]

I beleive all of them are entirely avoidable
- throw some stress in there though and maybe that changes things around a bit. Maybe the solution is to take the man out of the cockpit? This is where we are heading.

-S

Maybe the solution is not to send inexperienced pilots on combat missions, give all pilots full briefings, tell all pilots that red distress flares and orange covers mean friendly units and to let all pilots know when they are operating in a area that has friendly forces near by.
Hopefully this is where we are heading!

None of these things where done at the time. I assume this is why the killings where declared unlawful.

[SUBMAN1]

Maybe the solution is not to send inexperienced pilots on combat missions, give all pilots full briefings, tell all pilots that red distress flares and orange covers mean friendly units and to let all pilots know when they are operating in a area that has friendly forces near by.
Hopefully this is where we are heading!

None of these things where done at the time. I assume this is why the killings where declared unlawful.

I don't agree with the unlawful ruling by a coroner no less who would be inexperienced in a cockpit to start with. But the fact of the matter is this - the convoy is travelling along a route with suspected Iraqi units. Here is a map:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42675000/gif/_42675821_basra_friendly_fire416.gif

Now take into account that the A-10 is in a hostile location (enemies could be anywhere) - this is 1 point against the stress factor for the pilot. Now the pilot sees a column of tanks up above and realizes that surprise is on his side - this is another point for a screw up - he wants to take them out on pass #1. Why? Tank columns have two things - large calibre guns capable of knocking and aircraft out of the sky, and the also always have Surface to Air missiles - two things that put a pilot who is already stressed out on the edge. The result was an inappropriate call was made from a distance where he did not correctly identify his intended target. Looking at his target, I can see why this call happened - it looks nothing like anything American that this pilot is used to seeing:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/scimitar-s.jpg

That thing looks Russian to me! No wonder he fired. Anyway, what I gather this to be is not a case of inexperience in the piloting of the said aircraft - he surely hit his mark with precision. If any inexperience happened, it was probably inexperience in working with British troops. I think it is more a case of mistaken identity, coupled with what was thought to be the element of surpise, alltogether with a major factor of stress from possibly being fired on and possibly killed - basically worrying about the survival of his aircraft and his own butt! Flying even lower than he did puts him even at more risk, and I feel he was positively sure his target was Iraqi. Another fact - was intelligence given of British troops in the area? Another fact we don't know. In the end, it is a tradgedy for both sides.

What I hate is the fact that some people make this out to be a crime in the fact that he intended to shoot friendlies - that is just a sick opinion in my book. I bet this pilot is scar'd for life over this one incident and will never be the same - Probably wishing he was the one in the tank he fired on. Trust me - it has affected more than one family here.

Anyway, I know you are angry about this, and there is probably nothing I can say to make you feel better. The only way to avoid this in the future is to do the impossible - take war out of our lives forever. Since that is never going to happen, sadly their will continue to be cases of fracticide forever more. Always has been, always will be. No amount of training will ever fix it. We can only minimize it.

-S

[waste gate]

If this is the incident then the confusion is plane and the result unfortunate.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,11021-2006410749,00.html?channel=Sun%20Exclusive&clipID= 1347_SUN1131 (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,11021-2006410749,00.html?channel=Sun%20Exclusive&clipID=1347_SUN1131)