Don't Waste That Second Torpedo

[Brag]

You shoot a torpedo and your target keeps sailing merilly along. Blam, you let it have another one and feel a warm glow as the target sinks. But, was that second torp really needed?

(See also I Resign, Thread)
When I set off on my last patrol on 27 Feb 1941, it was with the objective of perfecting one torpedo technique per GWX ship ( Ihad it down pat on stock SH3). Though the seas were mostly rough through most of the patrol, visibility was good.

I fired 18 torpedoes, sunk 15 ships (2 with deck gun). Used 2 torpedoes to sink the first target (large freighter) because I thought one torp didn't do the job. That was an error, the ship would have sank with one. A couple of torpedoes missed during 2 convoy attacks. With exception of that first ship ALL ships hit went down with ONE torpedo.

I aimed at only one point in all shots--under the forwardmost mast of all ships. Small freighters, medium and large. Did not hit any pyro of whale factory ships.

In all cases the ships sank within half an hour, most between 8 - 15 minutes.

None of the ships appeared to have received catastrophic damage at first--thus tempting to send another fish to make sure.

The first indication that the hit is lethal is a small reduction in speed by the stricken vessel. After 3-4 minutes, you will notice a slight lowering of the bow.

I don't know how far away from you the ship must sink for you to lose credit for the kill. With the exception of convoy attacks , I followed the target until they sank. They sink faster in rough weather.

I think that if you try this method, your kill ratio per torpedo will increase. Good hunting. :know:

[Dimitrius07]

Well I almost never fire another torpido because i never fire a single shot, almost all my shots are salvo (just in case some torpido dude);) .

[Pevs86]

Interesting, I've been aiming for the front of ships for awhile now, but still firing 2 torpedos.

Good tip, I'll try it with 1 and if it doesn't work, I expect a full refund! :D

[Morts]

Interesting, I've been aiming for the front of ships for awhile now, but still firing 2 torpedos.

Good tip, I'll try it with 1 and if it doesn't work, I expect a full refund! :D
im sorry but we cannot give you a new torpedo since we're out
would you be intrested in a 4 shot salvo from a 5" (inch) cannon insted ?

[Brag]

Interesting, I've been aiming for the front of ships for awhile now, but still firing 2 torpedos.

Good tip, I'll try it with 1 and if it doesn't work, I expect a full refund! :D

See Bernard for refunds :rotfl:

[Morts]

Interesting, I've been aiming for the front of ships for awhile now, but still firing 2 torpedos.

Good tip, I'll try it with 1 and if it doesn't work, I expect a full refund! :D

See Bernard for refunds :rotfl:
when i "bought" bernard from the barracks i was dissapointed
i didn even get refund:shifty: I DEMAND REFUND!!!!:rotfl:

[Zatoichi]

Thanks, I've been slightly annoyed by the change to explosion physics and damage in GWX. I had spent a lot of time researching tactics from real captains and the best success I’ve had, pre-GWX, was to send an eel about 1 or 2 meters below the keel with magnetic pistol <9 degrees off bow angle. The result was normally the torp would detonate right under the ship sending the entire explosive force up into the mass of the vessel. This would cause such damage as to make it nearly impossible for the crew to repair the damage and the ship would flounder and sink. This has drastically changed in the GWX mod and now the most damage is done at surface levels, which is less likely as the majority of the force of explosion would be sent away from the ship's mass and into the air. In my studies the deeper the explosion next to the hull, the more the damage as the explosion will choose the path of least resistance; as you know you cannot squeeze water, therefore the more water that is behind the explosion the more the energy from that explosion is passed to the object in the opposite direction (i.e. the ship's hull). So it would stand to reason that if you sent a torpedo just beneath the keel on a slight angle cross bow, all the energy from the explosion would pass upward into the ship resulting in catastrophic damage. I have yet to experience this with GWX.
My thoughts,
Ichi

[Brag]

Hi Ichi,
Welcome to our nest of ruffians!

I've had reasonable succes with magnetics. I often use them in convoy attacks when I can't hang about waiting for a good AOB. Might reserach that angle on my next patrol :know:

[Steeltrap]

Not sure how the damage model in GWX compares with NYGM, but I tend to fire at the after third of a target, as taking out the engine spaces SHOULD always result in the ship sinking, or at least being slowed dramatically.

Most WWII sub captains would aim at the engine spaces of tankers in particular, as that gave the best chance of sinking them.

So a bow hit might work well in the sim, but I think the real-world case was the aft sections were the best targets from the point of view of doing vital damage.

It's all interesting to try, however!

Cheers

[Brag]

Not sure how the damage model in GWX compares with NYGM, but I tend to fire at the after third of a target, as taking out the engine spaces SHOULD always result in the ship sinking, or at least being slowed dramatically.

Most WWII sub captains would aim at the engine spaces of tankers in particular, as that gave the best chance of sinking them.

So a bow hit might work well in the sim, but I think the real-world case was the aft sections were the best targets from the point of view of doing vital damage.

It's all interesting to try, however!

Cheers

I agree with you. However, with GWX I had mixed results with engine room hits. So I'm being systematic in the "research" trying one type of shot and get consistent results over a number of targets to see what works every time.

[Pevs86]

I just did Torpedo Academy training...

...

...

1 torp kills are, clearly, impossible. It's not my complete lack of skill, it's everything else working against me :D

I got pissy with the Tramp Steamer when it didn't sink after 2 hits, then decided to start moving to avoid the 3rd, so fired a 4 shot salvo into it.

[Brag]

I just did Torpedo Academy training...

...

...

1 torp kills are, clearly, impossible. It's not my complete lack of skill, it's everything else working against me :D

I got pissy with the Tramp Steamer when it didn't sink after 2 hits, then decided to start moving to avoid the 3rd, so fired a 4 shot salvo into it.

Hehe, in GWX everything works against you. Right now one of my best officers has gone AWOL and I need to get underway, aaarrrgghh :mad:

[Rykaird]

Sounds like the same mechanic at work though as a bow shot - flooding of the forward compartments and the ship goes down nose first, and floods faster in bad weather as she essentially sinks herself.

Bow shots miss relatively easily though, given the bow has the most vertical movement of any part of the ship, and rather dramatically so in bad weather.

So maybe the first mast is a good compromise.

I'll try it - I usually aim for engine or fuel bunkers right now.

[Brag]

It would be interesting to see the results of a certain "sure" shot over, let's say, one patrol by different Kaleuns. The best "scientific" results would be shooting at unescorted targets because this reduces all the variables present under less than ideal conditions. Thus perfect shots into a certain area will tell us how to sink various ships with the best possible chances of sinking them with one torpedo. :D

[TriskettheKid]

It would be interesting to see the results of a certain "sure" shot over, let's say, one patrol by different Kaleuns. The best "scientific" results would be shooting at unescorted targets because this reduces all the variables present under less than ideal conditions. Thus perfect shots into a certain area will tell us how to sink various ships with the best possible chances of sinking them with one torpedo. :D


Actually, with my play-style, I've been able to one-shot pretty much every enemy ship in the game save the Iowa class and the HMS Hood, though I'm working on figuring out both.

For the most part, ANY enemy ship around 15000 tons and less can be one-shotted. Larger ships like passenger ships, Aux Cruisers, and the smaller battleships (not the Southamptons) can be sunk with a well placed shot right behind either the fore or aft turret, or at the very rear near the screws.

Larger ships, like the Revenge, get very hard to sink in a single shot, but it is possible. The weird thing is that I've sunk several Revenge class at anchor, and several while under power, and I can tell you that for whatever reason, it seems like it's actually easier to one-shot a Revenge under power than it is at anchor. Like before, the best bet is to aim under the Fore or Aft turret (where the ammo would be stored), or near the screws. The only thing you have to watch out for is that bulge of armor at the middle.

Carriers are easy, because they are pretty top-heavy. Single shot's are pretty much a given, so long as it's off-center. Again, a hit near the screws would be best.

The HMS Hood and the Iowa class have been the bane of my existence since I first attacked either. Both are 40+k tons, and both eat torps like it was their business. Took me 4 torps for the Hood my first encounter and a whopping 6 for the Iowa. After several more encounters, though, both can be easily sunk in 2 shots, but I have yet to get a single shot on both, but I have a feeling I can do it based on how heavily both can list after a single, well-placed shot. Once they list, a single shot under the keel does them in, provided it's in the same area as the first shot.

Now, my strategy is a bit weird. Around 95% of my shots are done with the torp running at it's shallowest setting using Impact pistons. Around 4% of the time I run the torp around 2-3 meters with impact pistons. The remaining 1% are deeper shots using magnetic pistons, usually to finish off the bigger ships that wouldn't sink with a one-shot.

[bigboywooly]

Hehe, in GWX everything works against you. Right now one of my best officers has gone AWOL and I need to get underway, aaarrrgghh :mad:

The officer disappearing on return to port while in the repair section is a stock problem
Not a GWX one

[Brag]

Hehe, in GWX everything works against you. Right now one of my best officers has gone AWOL and I need to get underway, aaarrrgghh :mad:

The officer disappearing on return to port while in the repair section is a stock problem
Not a GWX one

Not attacking GWX. Just doing my normal in-harbour bitching. Anyway, left as ordered. The weather is dead calm, sunny. Just got a Fiji--Life is good a bit north of Las Palmas. :D

[Godalmighty83]

just took out a nelson, i was feeling impatient and used 9 torps.

in fairness it had stopped dead and was starting to sink abit after the first 2, but being in very shallow waters it didn't sink far before resting on the sea-bed in a upright position, i think this stopped the ship flooding at the normal rate.

nothing else for it, was going have to kill via hit-points. fired another 2, one was a dud, swung around a fired my stern fish. the ship was aflame.

then i got pestered by a couple of dd's, by the time i had sent them the wrong way (made them both get stuck on the beach heheheheh) all front my front torps had reloaded (~45mins). got into place, fired all 4 at 7m magnetic. all 4 blew under the centre of the ship. it split immediately.

:arrgh!:

[Zatoichi]

Actually, with my play-style, I've been able to one-shot pretty much every enemy ship in the game save the Iowa class and the HMS Hood, though I'm working on figuring out both...
...For the most part, ANY enemy ship around 15000 tons and less can be one-shotted. Larger ships like passenger ships, Aux Cruisers, and the smaller battleships (not the Southamptons) can be sunk with a well placed shot right behind either the fore or aft turret, or at the very rear near the screws.
...Now, my strategy is a bit weird. Around 95% of my shots are done with the torp running at it's shallowest setting using Impact pistons. Around 4% of the time I run the torp around 2-3 meters with impact pistons. The remaining 1% are deeper shots using magnetic pistons, usually to finish off the bigger ships that wouldn't sink with a one-shot.
...Edited Quote for Space..
I think the military ships are a little easier, not sure if by in game design or just by my personal experience thus far. I've almost always taken down a military vessel with one shot or crippled her so badly she disengages. Merchant vessels on the other hand, tend to be a little tougher as they are designed to stay afloat under greater weights and stresses. The "trick" I believe in interrupting supply to the allies is to take down as may ships carrying cargo as possible. Military ships were cheap and easily replaced, while supply ships were few and costly to build. (Don't get me wrong I start to salivate at the sight of a capital just like the rest, but I tend to save my torps for the merchants.)
Anyway I had a good run at a large convoy just after I had posted last. Sent all eels below keel in bad weather with magnetic pistol (bad weather requires point blank shots so less likely to experience pre-mature detonation) sunk all ships hit with one shot except for the Pyro which too two because it made a run for it after first hit.
I used 7 shots for six sunk: 3 large Merchants/cargo, 1 medium merchant/cargo, 1 Pyro and 1 DD who snuck up on me from behind in the weather.
Some of the eels detonated in the spots listed by Brag and others here, but all energy should have been passed to the ship explaining their rather rapid demise.
Or maybe I just got lucky. :-?

Ichi..

PS. Thanks for the welcome, I've been a ghost for some time, but thought I'd fianally chime in.
z

[Steeltrap]

Well IMO 2 torps to sink a Rodney is crazy....they should take plenty more than that. They were comparitively modern, a fair size, and quite well protected. No way 2 torps should be able to do for one of them.

Carriers, especially the 'early' non-purpose-built ones, should be more vulnerable. Light armour for their size and stability issues (not to mention being filled with all sorts of things that burn and go 'boom') makes them far more vulnerable.

Generally, a warship should be HARDER to sink than the same size (or even larger) merchant vessel. Why? Warships are designed with the sort of damage caused by torps/bombs/shells in mind, merchants are not. Warships have far larger crews, allowing for greater damage control efforts, and they tend to be more compartmentalised, carry more pumps etc...in short, the majority of cargo vessels in WWII were built from early 1900 to late 1930s. Many were hardly compartmentalised at all.

The fact that warships seem easier to kill is an unfortunate side effect of the damage model in the sim, I believe.

[STEED]

Well IMO 2 torps to sink a Rodney is crazy....they should take plenty more than that. They were comparitively modern, a fair size, and quite well protected. No way 2 torps should be able to do for one of them.

Carriers, especially the 'early' non-purpose-built ones, should be more vulnerable. Light armour for their size and stability issues (not to mention being filled with all sorts of things that burn and go 'boom') makes them far more vulnerable.

Generally, a warship should be HARDER to sink than the same size (or even larger) merchant vessel. Why? Warships are designed with the sort of damage caused by torps/bombs/shells in mind, merchants are not. Warships have far larger crews, allowing for greater damage control efforts, and they tend to be more compartmentalised, carry more pumps etc...in short, the majority of cargo vessels in WWII were built from early 1900 to late 1930s. Many were hardly compartmentalised at all.

The fact that warships seem easier to kill is an unfortunate side effect of the damage model in the sim, I believe.

Depending if he is running stock or one of the super mods.

[Steeltrap]

Pretty sure he's running GWX. I think I'm the odd one out in this thread as I use NYGM (and I've never actually fired at a warship!!).

[Zatoichi]

[quote]...magnetic pistol ... experience pre-mature detonation)
A condition that has caused embarrassment and shame in torpedoes for too long.
Now there's hope; with counseling and prescription "Spotonagra" every torpedo can
enjoy life without the embarrassment of Pre-Mature Detonation (PMD).
You or your torpedo can talk to your doctor to see what's right for you.

Spotonagra is not for everyone, talk to your torpedo's doctor or chemist before using Spotonagra.
Some side effects can be: enlarged ego, false sense of accomplishment and increase depth charging
due to pissed off DD escorts.

...Together we can make a torpedo happy.

[Zatoichi]

SteelTrap,
I agree that the large war ships should been tougher to sink; they were, after all,
built for endurance and devastating offensive power and not for speed.
The escort ships, on the other hand, were built for speed and not as well armored.
In vanilla SH3 as-well-as GWX I tend to tear through the lighter class escorts with
one shot, I have even taken one out by being too close to the surface during a DC run
where he took keel damage from my tower.
(Didn't do me much good ether, but down he went, just the same.)
I imagine that all those nice sealed compartments don't amount to much if the
ammo and fuel stored there starts to go POP. I'm not running in there with a fire hose.
"I say, would you mind popping down to the munitions store and dousing that inferno? There's a good chap.":huh:
No thanks.
Ichi...

[Iron Budokan]

[quote]...magnetic pistol ... experience pre-mature detonation)
A condition that has caused embarrassment and shame in torpedoes for too long.
Now there's hope; with counseling and prescription "Spotonagra" every torpedo can
enjoy life without the embarrassment of Pre-Mature Detonation (PMD).
You or your torpedo can talk to your doctor to see what's right for you.

Spotonagra is not for everyone, talk to your torpedo's doctor or chemist before using Spotonagra.
Some side effects can be: enlarged ego, false sense of accomplishment and increase depth charging
due to pissed off DD escorts.

...Together we can make a torpedo happy.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[TriskettheKid]

I run GWX.

And I am quite serious about the number of shots it takes to down certain ships. I have sunk every merchant ship in one shot, even the big 20+k ton passenger ships.

Warships, again, anything 10K tons or less can be sunk with ease in one shot (this includes Southamptons, Didos, and Fidos).

Carriers and most of the BBs can be sunk in a single shot. I found this out when a shot of mine missed where I was aiming on a moving Revenge, nailing the BB in the back, right by the screws. Took 3 screws and her rudder, and within an hour in game, she was on her way to the bottom.

The biggest ships, the Iowa-class and the HMS Hood, I have yet to sink in 1 shot. I have sunk both in 2 shots. But I'd say that most of the time it takes up to 3 shots to sink.

Like I said, most ships CAN be one shotted, but that does not mean that that is the case all the time. Most ships around 15k tons can be one shotted pretty much all the time. The bigger ships can be done in with one shot, but it's nowhere near as certain with the smaller ones.

Again, this also assumes you are patient and not under major time constraints.

[romelus]

when i "bought" bernard from the barracks i was dissapointed
i didn even get refund:shifty: I DEMAND REFUND!!!!:rotfl:

bernard is purchasable? is he only in GWX? i've been playing vanilla and haven't seen bernard :88)

[Zero Niner]

To confirm what Brag has claimed, yesterday evening I bagged a Revenge-class BB with a torpedo hit to its bow.

What happened was that I was on my way back to Wilhemshaven with only 2 torpedoes left. I received an intel report about a slow convoy & since it wasn't far away I decided to intercept it, and sink the largest ships I could with my remaining torpedos.

Well, the largest ship I saw was the BB, so I aimed one eel under the forwardmost turret, and the last one under the smoke stack - I was hoping to hit the ammo storage and engine room respectively.

Unfortunately an escort got too close & started pinging. As a result the convoy started weaving which screwed up the targeting solution. The first eel missed just forward of the BB, but the second hit at the bow, roughly at the area where the ship's anchors are stowed.

The hit started a small fire, and the bow became lower and lower in the water until it submerged. At the end the ship went down almost vertically, in less than half an hour game time!

BTW this is my first ever capital ship victim in SH3 after numerous patrols, so as you can imagine I'm rather pleased with myself. :)