French Vessels post 1940

[leet657]

Last night I spotted a tramp steamer. As I closed I noticed that it was a french ship. The date is after the french surrendered and German forces have taken over the north of France. I attacked it and sunk it, (mainly to test my new subs deck gun) but also because it was travelling north towards the bay of Biscay. Now it looks as though the ship was classified as neutral. Is there anyway of determining if the ship belonged to the "Free French" or Vichy French government?

[OuNiS]

Last night I spotted a tramp steamer. As I closed I noticed that it was a french ship. The date is after the french surrendered and German forces have taken over the north of France. I attacked it and sunk it, (mainly to test my new subs deck gun) but also because it was travelling north towards the bay of Biscay. Now it looks as though the ship was classified as neutral. Is there anyway of determining if the ship belonged to the "Free French" or Vichy French government?

In stock SH3? I think no.

[JScones]

Last night I spotted a tramp steamer. As I closed I noticed that it was a french ship. The date is after the french surrendered and German forces have taken over the north of France. I attacked it and sunk it, (mainly to test my new subs deck gun) but also because it was travelling north towards the bay of Biscay. Now it looks as though the ship was classified as neutral. Is there anyway of determining if the ship belonged to the "Free French" or Vichy French government?
What flavour of SH3?

The simplest way is to look at the flag. If, as you say, France had surrendered by the time you saw the ship, then an undefaced tricolore would signify Vichy France as Free France defaced the French flag with the Cross of Lorraine.

[OuNiS]

Or we could add Vichy France as a new "country". :hmm:

But why?
In GWX we have neutral Vichy France from VI 1940 to X 1943 and for this period we could attack Free French vessels which use other flags.

[JScones]

Yes, I've edited my earlier post to remove confusion and unnecessary debate (it's 1am here and I didn't articulate it correctly). Just to be clear to everyone, GWX does model France as Vichy France between 1940 and 1944.

[leet657]

I am currently running SH3 1.4 plus GWX.
So as far as I can gather from the discussion, there is no way to tell the difference and to treat all "French" ships as neutral.
All "Free French" ships are considered to be re-flaged during the war for the purpose of the game.
Like the idea of amending French Flag though, it would add more realism and you would have to take note of the flag with a bit of care.

[JScones]

Ummm, which part of "The simplest way is to look at the flag. If, as you say, France had surrendered by the time you saw the ship, then an undefaced tricolore would signify Vichy France as Free France defaced the French flag with the Cross of Lorraine." did you miss?

Free French ships are not "considered" to re-flagged, they *are* re-flagged in GWX just as they *were* in RL, exactly as per my statement above. This is outlined on page 52 of the GWX 1.02 manual which clearly outlines the flag differences between France/Vichy France and Free France.

All you need to know are the dates that France "became" Vichy France "became" France again and you won't have any problems. Anything flying the Free French flags can be sunk on sight. Remember, Vichy France was officially neutral.

[leet657]

Sorry I wrote my last post based on what OuNis stated and before your last statement "GWX does model France as Vichy France between 1940 and 1944."
Should have looked in the manual as well - point taken.

[JScones]

Don't worry - I knew what I was saying (as my original comment will attest), but I didn't articulate the second para clearly enough which prolly caused confusion.

I will point out one thing which will be fixed in the next GWX patch, the flaggen sheet (accessed via the periscope screen) currently contains a typo for France: 26/08/40 should be 26/08/44.

Indeed, the next patch will include corrected dates for France and other countries, but these dates will not help you with 1.02. ;)

[Mush Martin]

Just out of Curiosity do you know if anybody put in the scuttlings
at Toulon etc. in GWX I havent been there are there

"Ships to sea" so to speak there?

[edit] in retrospect id suppose not from the sea folder

[bigboywooly]

Bit hard to simulate scuttlings when all we have is a barricade ship lol

Not been myself to Toulon - only in the mission ed
There are ships there though as it is a player base

[Baracuda]

Just look at you recognition manual in standard SH3 the flags r in there are Vichy French is a normal Tricolour and Free french has the fluer de lis on it

[Pevs86]

I must admit I engaged anything Free French initially... then I noticed some French ships in German ports and the penny dropped.

[STEED]

Stuff grid patrols from 1939 to the fall of France the Bay of Biscay has hot pickings and around NW of Spain, just sink as many French ships you can before France falls.

That's my hot tip of the day. :ping:

[bigboywooly]

Quite simple

French flag http://www.epier.com/store/outpostflags/ItemImages/france1.jpg Neutral ( Vichy ) 26 June 40 - 22 Oct 44 ( Allied before and after )

FreeFrench flag http://www.francethisway.com/images/flagoffreefrance.gif Allied 1 July 40 - 22 Oct 44

[i_b_spectre]

Darn the luck! Wish I'd noticed this earlier, but I figured any French ship flying the tricolor and in the midst of an escorted British convoy could be considered hostile. I had my best action against a convoy yet and sank one tanker, two warships and seven cargo vessels south of Portsmouth at the lower end of the English Channel. I was occasionally interrupted by a pesky Elco boat, but still managed to steal enough surface time to load my external reserve eels and exhaust them into the aforementioned shipping. I had only one green sunken ship icon on the map and that was the last one I attacked. Of course I was perplexed when it was clearly flying a French flag, but the after-action report said I managed to sink two neutrals. I'll bet the other one was French as well, though I don't recall for sure. Live and learn.