Decision time... IX or VII...

[Pevs86]

I'm an IX fan.

I love my IX types, love the reloads most, but also the aditional firepower from meh 105.

But I need some friendly, or hostile, advice :)

August 1940 - still early days I know, but I'm noticing my lovely boats weaknesses (thanks to GWX, hehe)

Firstly, the Cons:

Dive Time. Not something I ever worried about in stock SHIII, but now the RAF will spot me - I'll dive - they'll dive - I'll still be diving... - they'll drop - I'll be just about underwater when the bomb crashes down on my deck.

Size. Getting spotted even before I spot DDs sometimes, coupled with Dive time this isn't much fun for my nerves!

Maneuverability - kind of a follow up on size, on the surface it's not a problem, but underwater is another matter.

Now Pros:

Torps! More fishes than I know what to do with. Can use 2 on the larger guys without worry.

Speed - nice surface speed, even without any engine upgrades

Pros with cons, or vice versa...

Range - More room to chase but getting sent to the middle of nowhere kinda sucks.

Armament - 105mm ftw, but for how long before armed merchants?

To be honest, not much experience in VII types, I had a VIIB (who hasn't) but as soon as my lovely IXB becomes available I shift over, I've never had a VIIC - let alone the later /41 or /42s. Also I'm wondering if, as the VIIIC was the main UBoat of the war, if it wont get all the nice upgrades before my IX type, or maybe even get some that my IXs don't get?

Aaanyway, opinions please :)

I can't make my mind up, I love the boat to bits, but on my current patrol (alt tabbed atm) I've been bombed twice, straffed by Hurri's once, DCd twice and spotted by 3 Merchants on approach (probably me being careless but was about 4km out, maybe 5)

[Rykaird]

Amazing how often this comes up!

You can compensate for just about every weakness of a IXB - the question is, do you want to?

For example, I nailed my first ever liner in Freetown harbor - had to back into a narrow dock slip while submerged in order to get enough room for the torpedoes to arm. So a IXB can maneuver under water, it's just harder.

You can run decks slightly to fully awash to cut dive times, etc.

You get the idea. The question comes down to this, in my opinion: Do you want to regularly visit New York? Curacao? Galveston? Port Said? Then for sure get a IX.

But if your war consists primarily of cleaning grids like AM52, thrashing convoys night after night, and raiding local harbors like Scapa, stay with the VII.

And lastly, you can always switch back. I've never lived long enough, but you could always go from VIIB to IXB and then to a VIIC once the IXB starts to become too much of a sonar target.

[Pevs86]

hmm, that's a fair point, can always switch back!

Just used 12 torps on 4 ships, 50% duds - talk about bad luck - so sticking with my IX for at least one more patrol... also the VIIC involves a transfer - another pro as i HATE Lorient :)

[Ducimus]

The answer isnt to change boats - it's to change tactics.

[Brag]

Yup--it all hinges on whether you want to go to faraway places. If that is not important, stick with the VII.

I never got killed in a VII, whereas I got zonked twice in a IXB. If the Tommies will do it to me again, I'm switching back to the VIIC. :yep:

[Ducimus]

Again, tactics. A type9 takes patience. Its like that old joke, the one about the young bull and an old bull sitting on a hill watching a field of grazing cow?

The biggest adjustmet you can make is staying under during daylight, dawn, and dusk. You also HAVE to know when its too late to dive, and what to do when it is - this is a crucial decision you have to make in a couple seconds. A type7 is much more forgiving in this regard.

[jth]

Well, hard decision.
Personally, I like the VII more than the IX. The faster dive times of the VII saved my live maybe more often than I could count. On the other hand, long travels around Africa or to the US west coast are a little bit too long in my opinion. Nothing is more frustrating travelling half around the world only to get killed by an airplane ;)
But, like already said, it is a questions of tactics (well, or personal favor) which boat to take. If you like long hauls, planning long-termed attacks on a convoy or simply seeing the world, the IX is yours. Otherwise, I think the VII will suit much better.

[Pevs86]

When I first got the game I travelled around with unlimited fuel, found most ports to be pretty inactive.

But, with GWX, I suppose there's a good reason to travel to the US Coast, India, Africa, etc ?

If someone can tell me that they're busy then I really don't mind putting in the extra hours, it's arriving and there being nothing that i find disheartening :(

The IXB has a place in meh heart... but... the RAF...

*runs off to start flipping coins and rolling dice

[cobalt]

viic/41!



soon as i release it ;]

[Hartmann]

Again, tactics. A type9 takes patience. Its like that old joke, the one about the young bull and an old bull sitting on a hill watching a field of grazing cow?

The biggest adjustmet you can make is staying under during daylight, dawn, and dusk. You also HAVE to know when its too late to dive, and what to do when it is - this is a crucial decision you have to make in a couple seconds. A type7 is much more forgiving in this regard.

I´m fully agree with Ducimus. :yep:

Is matter of know the boat limitations and avantages

Also IX-B has a slight better dive times compared with IXC i think, but i´m not sure if is this modelled in the game or GWX.:hmm:

i´m always used big boats since aces of the deep and sh1 :up:

[d@rk51d3]

When I first got the game I travelled around with unlimited fuel, found most ports to be pretty inactive.

But, with GWX, I suppose there's a good reason to travel to the US Coast, India, Africa, etc ?

If someone can tell me that they're busy then I really don't mind putting in the extra hours, it's arriving and there being nothing that i find disheartening :(

The IXB has a place in meh heart... but... the RAF...

*runs off to start flipping coins and rolling dice

I hit Fremantle from my penang base a couple of nights ago and was surprised to find some tankers merchants, 2 big troopies and one other big ship whose ID is escaping me at the moment. Oh and a few subs too.:up:

My only problem was a half supply of eels after engaging a convoy on the way in. I still managed to make one hell of a mess though.:rock:


Surfaced a little too early on the way out (radar can see through fog) and took a simultaneous pounding from the remaining ships and lost 29 men (all my exp crew) in one massive hit....:dead:

Barely had enough men (blue shirts only, all browns dead) to run the motors and the command room, and could only limp away after resting on the bottom for a while to repair and rest my insufficient crew. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Letum]

I use VII boats most of the time.
The only reason for this is that I like to patrol the Western Atlantic. America is too exotic for me.

However, the IX is by far the best boat.

You might get more cans and bombs on you due to the poor dive time and sub-surface proformance, but the range and torp loadout ensure you can give twice as much as you get.:up:

[Spray]

Dive times "cough" "cough" seiously people how do you come up with this. A IXB will dive in 35 seconds a VIIB makes it down in 27. Not really a notable differance. However compared to a IXD2 which is 45-50 or so seconds that is a big difference. Anyway pick boat to how you like to play ive always loved the IXB because it seems like a boat for the more "precise" form of gamer. This is why so many people don't like it they try it and say oh gawd its too hard. When you get used to it its easy as and once you figure out it has 3 times as much torpedoes as a VIIB you'll love it even more. However it all depends on ths skill of the captain.

[Crosseye76]

Both.

Start 2 careers, one in a VII, the other a IX. Alternate the patrols, one on each type.



Don't ever limit yourself to one boat, one flotilla, one starting year. SH3 is a fairly decent sim, play, have fun, experiment, explore, poke around, blow stuff up !

At times I've had 7 or 8 different careers going, just so I could do different things, try new boats or weapons, or just goof around.

[17thcpikeman]

I like the Idea of two carees. But would get bothered about the torpedo load out. I have tried both though the IX was not very successful. I found that the speed was down on the VII and that it seemed harder to submerge. The extra torpedos are nice but if you are killed on way in or out then they dont make the differance. I am trying a new career with a VIIB and am doing OK for now still early 1940 but three patrols down and some nice large target sunk so happy enough.

Also that last career was played using NYGMTW so the renown thing wasnt there. So I now have to save up to buy things :P

I am happy with my VIIB U-52 and I hope to sail her again tonight.

[Letum]

Dive times "cough" "cough" seiously people how do you come up with this. A IXB will dive in 35 seconds a VIIB makes it down in 27. Not really a notable differance.

A plane travles at ~150m/s.
That means a plane will be ~1.25km closer to the IXB when it slips below the surface compared to the VII.

Thats notable enough for my crew.

[Ducimus]

A couple seconds can make a world of difference.

[Spray]

Dive times "cough" "cough" seiously people how do you come up with this. A IXB will dive in 35 seconds a VIIB makes it down in 27. Not really a notable differance.
A plane travles at ~150m/s.
That means a plane will be ~1.25km closer to the IXB when it slips below the surface compared to the VII.

Thats notable enough for my crew.

300kmph=300 000 metres per hour, 300 000 metres per hour divided by 60 5000 metres per minute divide by 60= 83 metres per second. Are you suggesting that aircraft travel at 600kmph? They they dont the aircraft would move 500 metres in 1 minute. 300 kmph seems like a reasonable number and is more closer to the truth. Also with a metox which detects radar at ranges of up to 35 kilometres. It would take the aircraft 360 seconds to get to your position if detected at 30 kilometres. Easily enough time to dive. Now the top speed for the hurrican is 300 knots they could never acheive this flying straight and level they could push it to probably 400kmph straight and level with a high amount of difficulty. May I suggest you try out IL2 if you are interested in flight sims its aircraft and physics effects are modeled better then on the Microsoft Flight Simulator series. Even more I should know a lot on the subject on WW2 fighters and bombers since I did do this in highschool 1..2...3...4...5 10 years ago. If SH3 is unrealisitic with aircraft I haven't really noticed with my IXB and metox I so far have never at all been bombed except for in one incident pre radar a lone Hurricane attacked me. Being rambo as I was I fought it with my AA and prevailed. So far I have not lost 1 crew member to an air attack neither have I been damaged over 5% from an air attack trust me the IXB gives you more then enough time to submerge.

Also if the aircraft are un-realistically modeled and flit around the place at 600kmph you would still have over 2 minutes to dive if you had metox. The IXB takes 35 seconds half a minute which is 7 or so seconds then the VIIB. No major difference.

[Jimbuna]

When I first got the game I travelled around with unlimited fuel, found most ports to be pretty inactive.

But, with GWX, I suppose there's a good reason to travel to the US Coast, India, Africa, etc ?

If someone can tell me that they're busy then I really don't mind putting in the extra hours, it's arriving and there being nothing that i find disheartening :(

The IXB has a place in meh heart... but... the RAF...

*runs off to start flipping coins and rolling dice

Oh they're busy alright :yep: :arrgh!:

[Letum]

Dive times "cough" "cough" seriously people how do you come up with this. A IXB will dive in 35 seconds a VIIB makes it down in 27. Not really a notable difference.
A plane travels at ~150m/s.
That means a plane will be ~1.25km closer to the IXB when it slips below the surface compared to the VII.

That's notable enough for my crew.
300kmph=300 000 metres per hour, 300 000 metres per hour divided by 60 5000 metres per minute divide by 60= 83 metres per second. Are you suggesting that aircraft travel at 600kmph?

The conversion rate from MPH to m/s is:
1 mph = 0.44704 meters per second

A De Haviland Mozzie will achieve 350MPH with out problem as it does a shallow dive to attack a U-boat. That's over 150m/s or 563KmPH

I certainly am suggesting that aircraft travel at 600kmph! The P51D had a max speed of 703 km/h.

btw...I play more IL2 than SH3. ;)

[Spray]

Perfect then you do know aircraft dont travel at 30 000 feet and cant be in a constant dive. You are saying the aircraft is constantly diving towards your position im a Cessna pilot in real life and with all the pitch trim in the world they wouldn't make 600kmph. However the F6F made 650kmph at flat flying. The F6F is far more advanced then a Hurricane and if you still wont beeleive me or attempt to avoid the facts you are looking at a 1.25 km difference out of 30. Is it impossible to accept a flawed logic?

[Letum]

Perfect then you do know aircraft don't travel at 30 000 feet and cant be in a constant dive. You are saying the aircraft is constantly diving towards your position I'm a Cessna pilot in real life and with all the pitch trim in the world they wouldn't make 600kmph. However the F6F made 650kmph at flat flying. The F6F is far more advanced then a Hurricane and if you still wont believe me or attempt to avoid the facts you are looking at a 1.25 km difference out of 30. Is it impossible to accept a flawed logic?

Who said anything about 30,000ft or constant dives? I said the aircraft was in a "shallow dive" i.e. from its cruise altitude of 2000ft - 6000ft to its strafing or bombing altitude.

As for the hawker hurricane, at sea level it could fly at 525kph (type I and II)
That's 146m/s
That means a plane will be 1.17km closer to the IXB when it slips below the surface compared to the VII.

My crew can see a plane at about 6km distance in light fog and 10m/s waves (just tested it, obviously it will vary with date, equipment and mods).

It is definitely a notable difference.

[Spray]

Perfect then you do know aircraft don't travel at 30 000 feet and cant be in a constant dive. You are saying the aircraft is constantly diving towards your position I'm a Cessna pilot in real life and with all the pitch trim in the world they wouldn't make 600kmph. However the F6F made 650kmph at flat flying. The F6F is far more advanced then a Hurricane and if you still wont believe me or attempt to avoid the facts you are looking at a 1.25 km difference out of 30. Is it impossible to accept a flawed logic?
Who said anything about 30,000ft or constant dives? I said the aircraft was in a "shallow dive" i.e. from its cruise altitude of 2000ft - 6000ft to its strafing or bombing altitude.

As for the hawker hurricane, at sea level it could fly at 525kph (type I and II)
That's 146m/s
That means a plane will be 1.17km closer to the IXB when it slips below the surface compared to the VII.

My crew can see a plane at about 6km distance in light fog and 10m/s waves (just tested it, obviously it will vary with date, equipment and mods).

It is definitely a notable difference.

Look I use the IXB I have never been caught on the surface un aware you use a VII(add type here) and have the same oppinion, yet it seems you are stubbornly stuck where you are 1 km is not a big difference at all yet to you its amazingly large. 7 seconds is really that much huh? Take it from someone who has used both subs when he says it does not matter what so ever. I don't think you truly understand a 7 second difference to a 20 second difference. Yet I know at teh end of this post you will reply again in denial. Load up IL2 get into a hurricane see how much of a top speed you can get flying straight before your engine cuts out from an overheat. Says all my money you won't get it over 500kmph flying straight and level. Also for a hurricane to fly at 500 kmph full speed 24/7 is unrealistic continue to ignore the fact im a pilot and aircraft have stress points you can't run at 100% while patrolling along. Also early in the war aircraft have little to no sub detection equipment when you get to late '41 and get a Metox you will detect aircraft at ranges of 35 kilometres fairly easily nothing. Aircraft also dont get dangerous to subs later in the war.

Anyway how about we set up a multiplayer game both run surfaced then dive when our crew spots an aircraft just so it gets in up there that I doesn't matter. Even better ill create a mission run the hurri at 330knots use people for aircraft detection and dive before he reaches me. Ill do the same with a VIIB just to make it a fair test. Sounds good. People have oppinions which differ some just use the same argument no matter what is saying not absorbing the info.

Happy hunting.

[Tobus]

Dive times "cough" "cough" seiously people how do you come up with this. A IXB will dive in 35 seconds a VIIB makes it down in 27. Not really a notable differance. However compared to a IXD2 which is 45-50 or so seconds that is a big difference. Anyway pick boat to how you like to play ive always loved the IXB because it seems like a boat for the more "precise" form of gamer. This is why so many people don't like it they try it and say oh gawd its too hard. When you get used to it its easy as and once you figure out it has 3 times as much torpedoes as a VIIB you'll love it even more. However it all depends on ths skill of the captain.

The difference between decks full awash between VII and IX is indeed "just" 8 seconds. These can make the difference between life and death. But what is much more important imo is the following speed in diving/rising. A VII can dive to great depth in a minute, meanwhile changing its direction while turning on a dime. A IX can not. Very important if you are trying to avoid a pinging, or worse, a DC run by multiple escorts.

It does depend on own tactics and your own preferences. I don't think a IX-kaleun is any more or less skilled than a VII-kaleun. By mid 1943 and on, they are all screwed-up idiots with a deathwish blinded by propaganda:) .

[ReallyDedPoet]

The answer isnt to change boats - it's to change tactics.

Agreed, all depends upon what you want and plan to do, have a look at each boats specs, what it has or does not have to offer, then decide:up:

[Pevs86]

heh, I just can't let go of my IX... I need them torpedos, I need the range...

2nd Career sounds like a damned good idea tho

[Rykaird]

Look I use the IXB I have never been caught on the surface

Never? How do you so consistenly prevent being caught on the surface? Not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. I've been nailed a number of times.

[Mooncatt]

im a fan of the IX but i also love my VIIB problem for me with the IX is i hate going across the drink it takes forever. im not keen on dive time either been caught with my pants down too many times with regards to planes.

[Morts]

been caught with my pants down too many times with regards to planes.
then dont "do it" when you know planes are around:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Ducimus]

Somewhere in the atlantic, a type 9 skipper has taken a type 7 out for a patrol:


http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_01.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_02.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_03.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_04.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/comic_05.jpg

[STEED]

IX Rules Ok

[Morts]

IX Rules Ok
nope

[STEED]

IX Rules Ok
nope

It dose in my book. :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:

[Morts]

IX Rules Ok
nope

It dose in my book. :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:
it doesnt in my:smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:

[STEED]

IX Rules Ok
nope

It dose in my book. :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:
it doesnt in my:smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:

IX bigger boat more torps greater fire power better killer. :cool:

[Morts]

IX Rules Ok
nope

It dose in my book. :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:
it doesnt in my:smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:

IX bigger boat more torps greater fire power better killer. :cool:
and higher death rate
HAHA!

[STEED]

So what. :rotfl: