Type VII #1 Submarine of top ten!!!!

[Capt. D]

Just finished watching the Military Channel's first program on Subs. (All week long at 8 PM EST) The American Gato class only came in third.:down: Some questions on specs. They give the Gato 10 Bow tubes???? and a complement of 60 men!!!! They should have contacted our fourm to get a better understanding of our WWII subs!

Interesting that a German WWI and the VII of WWII class boats both made the top ten, with their WWII VII as the top sub of all time! All in all the German subs did play a huge roll in both wars with huge success at the begining of each "kampf".

Interesting program though. The Typhon class of the Soviet Union was one "big mama".

Happy Hunting :ping:

[CCIP]

Popular presentation but they should get their data straight, I agree.

I guess it depends on the criteria. I would certainly give VII the top honour, though - they were, after all, the most mass-produced subs ever and sank more ship tonnage than any other type of military vessel in history.

We did have the "Gato vs VII" discussion though, and the general consensus was that both did their own thing.


What was #2? Typhoon?

[Capt. D]

Popular presentation but they should get their data straight, I agree.

I guess it depends on the criteria. I would certainly give VII the top honour, though - they were, after all, the most mass-produced subs ever and sank more ship tonnage than any other type of military vessel in history.

We did have the "Gato vs VII" discussion though, and the general consensus was that both did their own thing.


What was #2? Typhoon?

Seawolf class attack boat.

Happy Hunting :ping:

[bookworm_020]

What was the order of the top ten?? It would be interesting to see how they came to their conclusion!:up:

[IRONxMortlock]

Popular presentation but they should get their data straight, I agree.

I guess it depends on the criteria. I would certainly give VII the top honour, though - they were, after all, the most mass-produced subs ever and sank more ship tonnage than any other type of military vessel in history.

We did have the "Gato vs VII" discussion though, and the general consensus was that both did their own thing.


What was #2? Typhoon?

I thought the Type IXs sank more ships?
________
LadyVie (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/LadyVie)

[Captain_Stabbing]

The order of the top ten was probably number 10 to number 1......

Sorry.... couldn't not be sarcastic

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I saw the very beginning of that program, and turned to something else and said: "Type VII must be # 1"

Glad to know I was right!!!! :rock:

[CCIP]

I thought the Type IXs sank more ships?
Per boat, yes, the IXB (specifically; not sure how other variants of the IX did) class was much more successful than the VIIC, however the numbers of Type IX boats are very small compared to Type VII...

(There were 193 of all manners of Type IX (IX through IXC/40 and IXD) boats and 693 Type VII (VII through VIIC/41))

[AJ!]

Im surprised the Typhoon wasnt higher up the list... I cant beleve the scale of the thing :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOz1dh9dFk4

[IRONxMortlock]

t... I cant beleve the scale of the thing :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOz1dh9dFk4

Holy Cow! :o
________
tiny tits Webcams (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/small-tits/)

[WilhelmSchulz.]

DAMMIT!! WHAT WAS THE LINEUP?!? :damn:

[Capt.LoneRanger]

The VII is simply the most famous submarine. It was neither the best, nor the most advanced sub. It was simply produced in large numbers and became the symbol of the most famous submarine-fleet.

For the usuall History-Channel-Tales, I don't wonder they voted this to be the best submarine. Not because it really was, but because what it stands for.

[Capt. D]

DAMMIT!! WHAT WAS THE LINEUP?!? :damn:
Here goes:


#10 - US George Washington Class

#9 - WWI german U - Boat (did not give a "class")

#8 - Typhoon

#7 - Japanese I400 class (That's the one with the plane hanger for 3 planes to bomb the Panama Canal)

#6 - British X - Class (Their WWII "mini" subs)

#5 - USS Nautilus - first US nuke boat

#4 - British WWII T- Class

#3 - US Gato Class

#2 - US Seawolf class

#1 - German Type VII

All were based on Fear Factor, Stealth Factor, Combat Factors amoung others. They mentioned that the Type VII had over 700 built - most ever - that the fear factor was very high as was the combat factor. Wiston Churchill was said to have said he lay awake at night with fear of the German U-Boats and what they could do to Britain. Also mentioned the quick dive capabilites the VII had or apx 20 sec to submerge.

In another thread we gave our pros and cons Gato vs VII. I think both boats were very good in the role they played. To bad they couldn't have a tie for number one. Seems the top ten had a tie once before regarding military equipment.

The producers were a little low on information though. Listed the Gato as having 10 BOW torpedo tubes as armament :huh:. They also indicated they had a compliment of 60 men:huh:. More like 75 to 80 that I recall.

They needed to call us!!!!

Happy Hunting :ping:

[Barkhorn1x]

The VII is simply the most famous submarine. It was neither the best, nor the most advanced sub. It was simply produced in large numbers and became the symbol of the most famous submarine-fleet.

For the usuall History-Channel-Tales, I don't wonder they voted this to be the best submarine. Not because it really was, but because what it stands for.

Exactly, and - in my estimation - the VII was a failure where it counted = results. The VII failed in its mission - sure there were some mitigating circumstances (Hitler and the SHTUPIDITY of taking on TWO major naval powers). But the fact remains that the German U-boat campaign failed and the US Fleet boat campaign (w/ the Gato as the backbone) succeeded.

Sure more Typ VIIs were built than any other sub type in history - and more were sunk too - many more! :know:

[Barkhorn1x]

The producers were a little low on information though. Listed the Gato as having 10 BOW torpedo tubes as armament :huh:. They also indicated they had a compliment of 60 men:huh:. More like 75 to 80 that I recall.

About 10 years ago the History Channel was decent. Now? Not so much. ;)

Of course (as a friend of mine pointed out), back then you could turn it on pretty much any time of the day or night and catch the Japanese oveerunning Manchuria or Hitler blitzing Poland. It really was the WWII channel.

Today, they mostly feature shows about UFO's and skyscrapers. :down:

[Shaffer4]

I always refered to it as The "Hitler" Channel.. cause it used to be that it involved everything ETO...

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Yeah, but that is, what people want to see, Shaffer4.

Us bad German Nazis with our superior engineers and evil minds being smashed by brave Allied troops that overcome the evil.

Sad but true: My wife studied a year in the US, in 2004. As her project was about children, she visited a lot of schools in Alabama, but she was not asked, what she did or about studies. Knowing she was German, she was only asked how Hitler was, if concentration camps still exist in Germany and if she knew Hitler personally. No kidding. She's 27 now.
At the same time, she was warned on 2 schools, to not say a word about native Americans, or something like that, as the children would be "irritated".

And besides that, every single German that enters the US, even for a short trip, has to sign, that he was not part of the Nazi-Regime! Again, no kidding. I had to do this myself and was asked, if my answer was correct, when I was inspected at the airport in Chicago. :huh:

When we were in Scotland, somebody said. "The Nazis are coming.", when we got there.

[Capt. D]

The producers were a little low on information though. Listed the Gato as having 10 BOW torpedo tubes as armament :huh:. They also indicated they had a compliment of 60 men:huh:. More like 75 to 80 that I recall.
About 10 years ago the History Channel was decent. Now? Not so much. ;)

Of course (as a friend of mine pointed out), back then you could turn it on pretty much any time of the day or night and catch the Japanese oveerunning Manchuria or Hitler blitzing Poland. It really was the WWII channel.

Today, they mostly feature shows about UFO's and skyscrapers. Yeah, but that is, what people want to see, Shaffer4.

Capt. LoneRanger wrote:
Us bad German Nazis with our superior engineers and evil minds being smashed by brave Allied troops that overcome the evil.

Sad but true: My wife studied a year in the US, in 2004. As her project was about children, she visited a lot of schools in Alabama, but she was not asked, what she did or about studies. Knowing she was German, she was only asked how Hitler was, if concentration camps still exist in Germany and if she knew Hitler personally. No kidding. She's 27 now.
At the same time, she was warned on 2 schools, to not say a word about native Americans, or something like that, as the children would be "irritated".

And besides that, every single German that enters the US, even for a short trip, has to sign, that he was not part of the Nazi-Regime! Again, no kidding. I had to do this myself and was asked, if my answer was correct, when I was inspected at the airport in Chicago. :huh:

When we were in Scotland, somebody said. "The Nazis are coming.", when we got there.
__________________
Greets,
Capt.LoneRanger:down:

Barkhorn 1x

This series is on the Military Channel not the Histroy Channel, though I don't know if they are connected in anyway. The History Channel infact did have a series on US WWII boats which was very good. It covered the Boats - the skippers - the campaign etc. I think it's avaliable through their web site on VHS.


Capt LoneRanger - just to add a different light to your wifes experiance.

My wife and I - along with our two boys (now 24 & 18) had the previlage of having a German exchange student live with us 8 years ago. He and my oldest went to high school together for that year. Phillip spoke a very good English and was well received in our neighborhood and wherever he went with us or friends he made. He and my oldest always kidded around together and as my oldest was Capt. of his high school soccer team went to games to cheer him on. Strange though Phillip was really into basketball. Tried out for the highschool team and when he did not make the team we got him involved in a local basketball organization that was connected with Detroit Piston Joe Dumars. I even got tickets for him to go to a Piston game curtousy of a vendor I knew. Had club house seats with all the food etc that went with it. Phillip was in heaven - to top it off the Pistons won in OT!

Rather than Phillip flying home after the year was up his parents flew here (his dad is a teacher) and we meet them of course! Then when my son graduated instead of going on the typical class trip or spring break to Florida or Cancun he flew to Germany and stayed apx. a month with Phillip and his family! We still talk to them every Christmas either they call us or we call them.:D

Grant it I am first generation born in this country - but I can't say your wifes experiance is the norm. Too bad she could not come away with a better time and memories.:cry: I do not know about signing anything - at least Phillip and his parents never mentioned anything about that. If that is the case shame on us. It's well over 60 years since the end of WWII. Maybe we should be asking people to sign a form claiming not to be part of any terroist group? Makes more sense in this day and age I would think!

[Barkhorn1x]

And besides that, every single German that enters the US, even for a short trip, has to sign, that he was not part of the Nazi-Regime! Again, no kidding. I had to do this myself and was asked, if my answer was correct, when I was inspected at the airport in Chicago. :huh:

When we were in Scotland, somebody said. "The Nazis are coming.", when we got there.

Hey, what are you complaining about? You guys are BAD A$$ - and oh so sheik in basic black.

;)

[Gildor]

I'm sorry to hear that that kind of crap still goes on Loneranger.

[Iron Budokan]

I saw the program. It wasn't as bad as some on this board are making out. It was a pleasant enough time waster.... :up:

[Spray]

Yeah, but that is, what people want to see, Shaffer4.

Us bad German Nazis with our superior engineers and evil minds being smashed by brave Allied troops that overcome the evil.

Sad but true: My wife studied a year in the US, in 2004. As her project was about children, she visited a lot of schools in Alabama, but she was not asked, what she did or about studies. Knowing she was German, she was only asked how Hitler was, if concentration camps still exist in Germany and if she knew Hitler personally. No kidding. She's 27 now.
At the same time, she was warned on 2 schools, to not say a word about native Americans, or something like that, as the children would be "irritated".

And besides that, every single German that enters the US, even for a short trip, has to sign, that he was not part of the Nazi-Regime! Again, no kidding. I had to do this myself and was asked, if my answer was correct, when I was inspected at the airport in Chicago. :huh:

When we were in Scotland, somebody said. "The Nazis are coming.", when we got there.

Some people are naturally ignorant leave it at that both sides commited atrocities. Did anyone watch a doco here about WW2 "black" propaganda. They used to air messages from England to German U-Boats where a young woman would talk about sexual stories. Then they also used to air about which houses were bombed etc and the Brits managed to find out personal things about some of the submariners so they would voice fake messages across the radio about family deaths. Along with this also came the posters which were trying to make the soldiers go back home the poster had a man making love to a young german woman while her husband was dying in a war and said that immigrants in Germany were having competitions at who can get the most soldiers wives. The thing with this black propaganda is that they pretended to be patriotic and all that but in a stupid way. They also sent ghost mail to the family of dead soldiers saying that they are still alive and in a neutral country and will return at the end of the war. Totally horrible, my Grandfather was in London during the battle of Britain and across came a story that the germans attempted to invade (forgot from which coastland) but the beach was covered in oil purposely. As soon as all the germans got onto the beach it was lit up along with all the other soldiers.

Then again my grandfather could have recited more and openly talked about the bombings and some of his stories including how the brits used to stick all the prisoners in the bottom of their cargo/merchant ships and talked about when one passenger liner was sunk by a German boat carrying Italian POW's.

War is always horrible no matter what side you are on people always come up with horrible generalizations. Im a Serb my next door neighbours are both Bosnian coincidently. We get along perfectly fine and would risk our own lives to save each other and were fairly close.

I just wish I talked to my grandfather about WW2 more I feel that all the information he had in him was lost. He lived a good life he watched the moon landings was in the battle of britain and lived. Performed the first ever liver transplant (when it happened in Italy (He was one of the main doctors)) Saw the moonlandings along with my father, became a main surgeon at the Hospital of Belgrade. Was a doctor in Berlin during the time of the collapse of the Berlin wall. Got one of the first smaller sized computers created in the world after working as a doctor for some company (way way back). Ended being a specialist regarding the liver and happily retired. He then got multiplied myloma (it was on more then one place on his body) and died of a multiple organ failure Febuary 15th 2007.

I think people who have experienced WW2 are wearing thin and im determined to learn as much about the subject as possible. Sorry I diverted a bit off course but I thought it was important just for his sake to provide a bibliography. The black propaganda was a documentary on SBS (Australia). But ill end with a final statement war is hell its never nice and you always end up looking like a bad guy from someones point of view.

[Sailor Steve]

#5 - USS Nautilus - first US nuke boat
I hope that wording is theirs and not yours. While true, it ignores the fact that Nautilus was the first nuclear-powered submarine anywhere.

It's like saying Chuck Yeager was the first American to break the sound barrier.

[CCIP]

#5 - USS Nautilus - first US nuke boat
I hope that wording is theirs and not yours. While true, it ignores the fact that Nautilus was the first nuclear-powered submarine anywhere.

It's like saying Chuck Yeager was the first American to break the sound barrier.

I think I just realized that Steve may well be Bill Nichols' alter-ego :rotfl:

***

Guys, chill out. For all the downfalls of the history channel, focus on Hitler, etc. etc. - keeping politics and sociology out of it, the Type VII did have a serious historical siginificance and was, on all counts, not a failure by design or tactics - it was a failure because it fought on the wrong side and in a fleet supported by completely inadequate resources for its ambitions. Otherwise the total tonnage claims speak for themselves.

[ReallyDedPoet]

with their WWII VII as the top sub of all time



One hella of a sub:up:

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Well, I didn't mean to say that all Americans are like that, just to make that one perfectly clear. As you might have guessed from the name, I'm indeed a fan of the US. :rock:

During her one year of studies in the US, she made friends for live, including her professor and his family, and some other people, who really helped her a lot, especially in the beginning. After the year, we spent over 4 weeks in the southeast, driving around with a car from Alabama to the Mississippi to Florida and back. We had a great time there and met a lot of really nice people. We still are in contact with them and we will definitely visit them again, hopefully before the end of this year. :yep:

So, I'm not saying people in the US are like that or people in the UK are like that, but the TV is, here and there.

[XXi]

Capt. LoneRanger -> human ignorance knows no limits. Evenconsidered that, these declarations are stupid, considering how many years have passed. I`m actually surprized you haven`t been asked about Wilhelm II.

It reminds me a history told by a friend of mine. He was travelling through the US and somewhere in mid-Montana was asked where had he come from.
Realising that "Poland" wouldn`t tell them anything, he said "Europe"
The people answered "Wonderful! We had visitors from France, Germany but from Europe - not yet"

As for propaganda - there was a lot of it. As a result, some people still think that Stalin was actually OK although he was by no means better than Hitler.

[Capt.LoneRanger]

:rotfl:

Yeah, when the security personnel asked me, if I answered the part of my participation in the Nazi-Regime correctly, I first thought he was joking, until he looked up at me and I knew he really meant it.


On the really positive side, before I took off from Frankfurt, I had to take an inland-flight there. All Germans and they sat there like grimly looking puppets - nobody talked - just like the living dead.
When I flew from O'Hare to Birmingham, AL, we played a quiz, all together and the personnel tried to get a box full of roasted nuts empty by packing them into our bags and pockets. Completely foreign people started chatting with me and wanted to know places to visit in Germany and stuff. :()1:

[AJ!]

DAMMIT!! WHAT WAS THE LINEUP?!? :damn:
Here goes:


#10 - US George Washington Class

#9 - WWI german U - Boat (did not give a "class")

#8 - Typhoon

#7 - Japanese I400 class (That's the one with the plane hanger for 3 planes to bomb the Panama Canal)

#6 - British X - Class (Their WWII "mini" subs)

#5 - USS Nautilus - first US nuke boat

#4 - British WWII T- Class

#3 - US Gato Class

#2 - US Seawolf class

#1 - German Type VII

All were based on Fear Factor, Stealth Factor, Combat Factors amoung others. They mentioned that the Type VII had over 700 built - most ever - that the fear factor was very high as was the combat factor. Wiston Churchill was said to have said he lay awake at night with fear of the German U-Boats and what they could do to Britain. Also mentioned the quick dive capabilites the VII had or apx 20 sec to submerge.

In another thread we gave our pros and cons Gato vs VII. I think both boats were very good in the role they played. To bad they couldn't have a tie for number one. Seems the top ten had a tie once before regarding military equipment.

The producers were a little low on information though. Listed the Gato as having 10 BOW torpedo tubes as armament :huh:. They also indicated they had a compliment of 60 men:huh:. More like 75 to 80 that I recall.

They needed to call us!!!!

Happy Hunting :ping:

yeah but these are the guys who made a top 10 battleships doc and didnt even have yamato on the list!

[Barkhorn1x]

yeah but these are the guys who made a top 10 battleships doc and didnt even have yamato on the list!

A fun link related to this topic:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

[rascal101]

I think the immigration entry form in the Us is rather odd from where ever you are from. I'm from Australia and have been to the US a few times on business.

On the form it used to ask, (not sure if it still does) if you are, or have ever been a member of the Nazi party or a Communist, but the one that always cracks me up is the next quest which asks if you have ever been involved with, or have taken part in acts of 'moral terpitude'.

I got a grilling from an officious twit last time I wnet when in a moment of levitiy I suggested that I had, frequently and with gay abandon, and hoped very muich to do so some more!

Has any one else ever done any 'moral terpitude' and if so can they remember very much about it, do they do that stuff in Canada, cos I should like to go there one day.

Well, I didn't mean to say that all Americans are like that, just to make that one perfectly clear. As you might have guessed from the name, I'm indeed a fan of the US. :rock:

During her one year of studies in the US, she made friends for live, including her professor and his family, and some other people, who really helped her a lot, especially in the beginning. After the year, we spent over 4 weeks in the southeast, driving around with a car from Alabama to the Mississippi to Florida and back. We had a great time there and met a lot of really nice people. We still are in contact with them and we will definitely visit them again, hopefully before the end of this year. :yep:

So, I'm not saying people in the US are like that or people in the UK are like that, but the TV is, here and there.

[Barkhorn1x]

On the form it used to ask, (not sure if it still does) if you are, or have ever been a member of the Nazi party or a Communist, but the one that always cracks me up is the next quest which asks if you have ever been involved with, or have taken part in acts of 'moral terpitude'.



We don't have those questions anymore as - in deciding to be more like the EU (ya know, less judgmental) - we've chucked all standards of behavior.

;)

[JSF]

I'm sorry to hear that that kind of crap still goes on Loneranger.

Roger that!......I am sorry to hear the same and would like to extend my most sincere apologies to you and your wife. I'm not sure why you would have to sign statements upon entering the US of A, however, on the other hand I along with many, I'm sure, are depressed with the dumbing down of the American school system......:nope:

And apologies for getting off topic....Take care.

[Flakchak]

I think the immigration entry form in the Us is rather odd from where ever you are from. I'm from Australia and have been to the US a few times on business.

On the form it used to ask, (not sure if it still does) if you are, or have ever been a member of the Nazi party or a Communist, but the one that always cracks me up is the next quest which asks if you have ever been involved with, or have taken part in acts of 'moral terpitude'.

I got a grilling from an officious twit last time I wnet when in a moment of levitiy I suggested that I had, frequently and with gay abandon, and hoped very muich to do so some more!

Has any one else ever done any 'moral terpitude' and if so can they remember very much about it, do they do that stuff in Canada, cos I should like to go there one day.

First Post! Woohoo!

Anyhow... Officious Twit? That's a new one, I've never heard that one before. Twit does sound so proper though. :D

Serious question though. Do you even know what "moral turpiude" is? It covers things like murder... rape... assault... robbery. Things of that nature. When you're dealing with a lot of people coming off an airplane, you don't have time to put up with "those moments of levity." Heck, if its not busy though, I usually have a good time conversing with the traveling public. But these are questions that you have to answer truthfully, otherwise, you can be refused entry. If that was the case, someone could say one thing, and then reverse themselves on the grounds they "were only joking around."

As for the Nazi references, people from Germany aren't singled out for that question. It appears on all Visa Waiver Forms (I-94W). So someone from Spain, or England, or yes, Australia, will be asked to answer yes or no, as to whether they were a member of the Nazi Party, etc. Again, being a Nazi, or heck, a Communist, is grounds for inadmissibilty to the US. That question doesn't deal with Nazi's alone. It also covers being involved in acts of Espionage or Sabotage.

If you were to go to the US Consulate or Embassy in your own country and apply for a Visa, you would be asked these questions during the interview.

The way I see it, is get passed the formality, answer my questions, and then we can joke around. I take what I do very seriously.

On another note, depending on what you do for business. There is a new Visa Classifcation for Australians. I think it mainly deals with computers business, but without getting to political over it, it came about due to Australia being such an awesome ally in our current conflict.

Total thread hi-jack man. This was suppose to be about the History Channel. I use to love watching it a long time ago. Along with Discovery and A&E. Now it appears that programs have been dumbed down a lot. I can't even watch the Military Channel anymore. They have nothing new. I think I've seen everything on the Military Channel ten times over.

As for subs. Its a shame they didn't include older fast attacks like the 637 or 688 class. Mainstays of the Cold War. I would have picked the Ben Franklin class over the George Washington class. And throw some more Soviet subs in there. Perhaps I'm biased. Japanese subs of any era don't do anything for me. I love the newer British subs, like the Trafalger class, but find the WWII British subs pretty hideous looking. To each his own. :ping:

[Shaffer4]

I always refered to it as The "Hitler" Channel.. cause it used to be that it involved everything ETO...

This was done in toungue and cheek, as all thier commericals at the time seemed to always have a photo of him (which is quite understandable).


As to your experiances, they are quite unfortunate and I am sorry you and your Mrs. had to endure them... if it makes you feel any better I am a triple threat.. I am of German, Norwegian, and Italian ancestry.. :o

[marky]

Just finished watching the Military Channel's first program on Subs. (All week long at 8 PM EST) The American Gato class only came in third.:down: Some questions on specs. They give the Gato 10 Bow tubes???? and a complement of 60 men!!!! They should have contacted our fourm to get a better understanding of our WWII subs!

Interesting that a German WWI and the VII of WWII class boats both made the top ten, with their WWII VII as the top sub of all time! All in all the German subs did play a huge roll in both wars with huge success at the begining of each "kampf".

Interesting program though. The Typhon class of the Soviet Union was one "big mama".

Happy Hunting :ping:


good stuff :ping:

[Wulfmann]

Lone ranger. Now you know what we Americans feel like when we go to Muslim state:rotfl:

Not sure how they arrived at the list seems a little off to me. The Type IX was certainly more productive than anything but the Gato and VII and the XXII was the one that influenced future design more than any other. The USS Nautilus has been described as Nuke powered XXI and when the allies saw this sub the Russian had to scrap a huge fleet of war built boats.
The I-1400??? Give me a break!!

The list should start with
Type VII
Type XXI
Gato
Type IX

After that the rest are wanna beees!

Wulfmann