Manual navigation personnel rules by Kumando

[Kumando]

Hi Kaleuns, i adopted manual navigation influenced by Corsair and by watching Dantenocs videos on youtube and i loved this method, it gives another immersion level to gameplay, but i decided to make some personnel adjustments of the method and i will share it with you. So here it goes:

You can always simulate sextant and chart readings on surface only(ctrl click with the wind rose on the center to fix exactly your position on map) at:

-Sunrise

-Noon

-Sunset

-Midnight (Simulating celestial navigation)

-When you see land (Simulating coastal navigation, as you would see landmarks etc.)

*Note: you can fix your position submerged at periscope depht only if you sight land but you are not allowed to take sun shots at this depht, only if you are on surface.


You can always simulate sextant and chart readings on surface only(ctrl click without the rose on the center simulating not so precise readings of the sun angle) at:

-Everytime the sun is showing

-Everytime the are stars visible in the sky at night.

-In bad weather and with zoom out of 7x(to simulate your navigator giving you a not so precise position of your sub) but only after a combat, because you have to make several course and speed directions and no way you can keep track of all that by yourself. If it isnt after a combat you must use dead reckoning only.

Dead reckoning

-Everytime there is no sun or stars using the speed/time charts in the navigation map.


Using the plotting tool

-You can always use the plotting tool as long you can see land (simulating your navigator doing the calculations by landsighting) if for some reason you travel to far from land and you cant see it anymore you must erase the ploted course.

-When you are in your patrol grid.

Obligations

-If you dont or cant take sunshots at at the times refered above, you can only use dead reckoning to fix your position till the time of the next possible sun shot. During the sunshots you must always move manually to the bridge in order to take a manual reading of your present course, descend and plot your course on the map using the protractor( this simulates the time needed for the navigator to take his readings and fix the u-boat position).

Attacking with manual navigation:In manual navigation, its suggestd that you always use true bearings(relative bearing + present course) in regard to your targets, and when making the 3.15 rule moving at 2kts towards the target make 0.2km markings in the map at every 3:15.



So what you guys think?

[Corsair]

Some interesting things in there...:up:

[Kumando]

Some interesting things in there...:up:

Thanks mate:arrgh!:.

[Brag]

Interesting, but you can't take star shots at midnight as you wouldn't have a decent horizon for use with your sextant. Sunset and sunrise are ok for simulation as it is close enough to twilight when you would have both, Stars and visible horizon. :up:


How do you go into manual nav mode?

[Kumando]

Interesting, but you can't take star shots at midnight as you wouldn't have a decent horizon for use with your sextant. Sunset and sunrise are ok for simulation as it is close enough to twilight when you would have both, Stars and visible horizon. :up:


How do you go into manual nav mode?

Im not saying that you would take star shots at night, but i red that at night its possible to fix your position by celestial navigation so i simulate this by doing the ctrl click ;)About doing manual navigation you have to hide your sub icon by doing the following:

Open the program files\silenthunteriii\data\menu\cfg directory and edit the maps.cfg file. Change the settings on the navigation map to:

[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=20000;originalmente 500
SymbolZoom=20000;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up originalmente 10
GroupsZoom=40000;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up originalmente 100
CityZoom=10000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=50;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

Having done so, open the program files\ubisoft\silenthunteriii\data\submarine folder, then choose the folder of your favorite sub, and edit the NSS_UboatXX_shp.TGA file, making it into something invisible (that's to say, just make the whole picture a transparent blank).

if you want the file Pm me.:up:

[Brag]

Thanks, mate,

I need to build up courage to start messing with files but will probably do it as the GPS is not realistic and been a long time bother.

[Kumando]

Thanks, mate,

I need to build up courage to start messing with files but will probably do it as the GPS is not realistic and been a long time bother.

You welcome, just backup the files and try this method at least once you wont regret it :up:.

[codmander]

would like to get rid of the gps feature on the map how do you get rid of it?

[Kumando]

would like to get rid of the gps feature on the map how do you get rid of it?

I posted it above mate:


Open the program files\silenthunteriii\data\menu\cfg directory and edit the maps.cfg file. Change the settings on the navigation map to:

[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=20000;originalmente 500
SymbolZoom=20000;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up originalmente 10
GroupsZoom=40000;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up originalmente 100
CityZoom=10000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=50;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

Having done so, open the program files\ubisoft\silenthunteriii\data\submarine folder, then choose the folder of your favorite sub, and edit the NSS_UboatXX_shp.TGA file, making it into something invisible (that's to say, just make the whole picture a transparent blank).

[codmander]

rgr ok thanks

[Kumando]

rgr ok thanks

No problem mate;).

[Corsair]

Interesting, but you can't take star shots at midnight as you wouldn't have a decent horizon for use with your sextant. Sunset and sunrise are ok for simulation as it is close enough to twilight when you would have both, Stars and visible horizon. :up:

Long before the sextant or anything like it was invented, many civilizations going on long trips knew how to use the stars for navigation..

[Dantenoc]

I have been assured by many that in good weather while at sea you can always tell where the horizon is even at night (mostly by my relatives who are oceanologysts), but many others have said that you can't... So I guess it's the call of each player.

[IRONxMortlock]

thanks for the information

...watching Dantenocs videos on youtube...

Could you provide me with a link to that video please?

Thank you.
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[High Voltage]

Dudes, i get lost driving to the supermarket in my Honda, I don't think i'm quite ready to start tooling around the Atlantic in my VIIB...;)

[Kumando]

thanks for the information

...watching Dantenocs videos on youtube...

Could you provide me with a link to that video please?

Thank you.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hardcore+navigation

[IRONxMortlock]

thanks for the information

...watching Dantenocs videos on youtube...
Could you provide me with a link to that video please?

Thank you.
Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hardcore+navigation

Thank you! :up:
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[codmander]

I have been assured by many that in good weather while at sea you can always tell where the horizon is even at night (mostly by my relatives who are oceanologysts), but many others have said that you can't... So I guess it's the call of each player.

moon phases -light at night- just like everything thing else on the big pond all sorts of varibles

[IRONxMortlock]

I'm going to give this shot.

Would there be any problems if I made these changes in the middle of a patrol or should I wait until I get back to port?

Also, why do I need to make those changes to the cfg file? Shouldn't I just need to replace the sub icon?

Thank you

M
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[Dantenoc]

You only change to invisible the "zoomed-in" version of your sub icon, so, in order to be able to zoom out at the nav-map without your sub icon appearing as it changes from one version to the other (spoiling the whole purpouse) you must change your game's config files so that change only occurs when you zoom way, waaaay out on the nav-map. That way, you can't derive precise information about your location by simply zooming out in the nav-map.

Why not just make both icons invisible (that is, including the zoomed out version)? because that would make all other subs disapear also. Besides, it feels right being able to look at your sub when zoomed out to the max, since that gives you a very vage idea of your general location, which is at least as much as any half-witted navigator could have supplied for you.

[Kumando]

You only change to invisible the "zoomed-in" version of your sub icon, so, in order to be able to zoom out at the nav-map without your sub icon appearing as it changes from one version to the other (spoiling the whole purpouse) you must change your game's config files so that change only occurs when you zoom way, waaaay out on the nav-map. That way, you can't derive precise information about your location by simply zooming out in the nav-map.

Why not just make both icons invisible (that is, including the zoomed out version)? because that would make all other subs disapear also. Besides, it feels right being able to look at your sub when zoomed out to the max, since that gives you a very vage idea of your general location, which is at least as much as any half-witted navigator could have supplied for you.
Right on:up:. And yes IronX you can make this changes at any time there is no problem with that, and then after you experiment it tell me what do you think of this type of gameplay.

[IRONxMortlock]

You only change to invisible the "zoomed-in" version of your sub icon, so, in order to be able to zoom out at the nav-map without your sub icon appearing as it changes from one version to the other (spoiling the whole purpouse) you must change your game's config files so that change only occurs when you zoom way, waaaay out on the nav-map. That way, you can't derive precise information about your location by simply zooming out in the nav-map.

Why not just make both icons invisible (that is, including the zoomed out version)? because that would make all other subs disapear also. Besides, it feels right being able to look at your sub when zoomed out to the max, since that gives you a very vage idea of your general location, which is at least as much as any half-witted navigator could have supplied for you.
Right on:up:. And yes IronX you can make this changes at any time there is no problem with that, and then after you experiment it tell me what do you think of this type of gameplay.

Thanks for the answers folks! :up:

BTW, did you receive my PM regarding the transparent TGA file Kumando?
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[Kumando]

You only change to invisible the "zoomed-in" version of your sub icon, so, in order to be able to zoom out at the nav-map without your sub icon appearing as it changes from one version to the other (spoiling the whole purpouse) you must change your game's config files so that change only occurs when you zoom way, waaaay out on the nav-map. That way, you can't derive precise information about your location by simply zooming out in the nav-map.

Why not just make both icons invisible (that is, including the zoomed out version)? because that would make all other subs disapear also. Besides, it feels right being able to look at your sub when zoomed out to the max, since that gives you a very vage idea of your general location, which is at least as much as any half-witted navigator could have supplied for you.
Right on:up:. And yes IronX you can make this changes at any time there is no problem with that, and then after you experiment it tell me what do you think of this type of gameplay.

Thanks for the answers folks! :up:

BTW, did you receive my PM regarding the transparent TGA file Kumando?

Im not at home at the moment, when i arrive later i will send you the file dont worry:up: .

[Kumando]

You only change to invisible the "zoomed-in" version of your sub icon, so, in order to be able to zoom out at the nav-map without your sub icon appearing as it changes from one version to the other (spoiling the whole purpouse) you must change your game's config files so that change only occurs when you zoom way, waaaay out on the nav-map. That way, you can't derive precise information about your location by simply zooming out in the nav-map.

Why not just make both icons invisible (that is, including the zoomed out version)? because that would make all other subs disapear also. Besides, it feels right being able to look at your sub when zoomed out to the max, since that gives you a very vage idea of your general location, which is at least as much as any half-witted navigator could have supplied for you.
Right on:up:. And yes IronX you can make this changes at any time there is no problem with that, and then after you experiment it tell me what do you think of this type of gameplay.
Thanks for the answers folks! :up:

BTW, did you receive my PM regarding the transparent TGA file Kumando?

File sent:up:.

[Corsair]

Great another recruit...:D

[Kumando]

Great another recruit...:D

We must work hard to get more recruits:p .

[IRONxMortlock]

File sent:up:.

Got it! Thank you, I'll try to set this up tonight.:up:
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[IRONxMortlock]

Sorry for the double post here but I need to bump this so that my new question may be examined.

I have just started out on my first manual nav patrol. So far so good but I have noticed one little thing.

On the nav map, all of the box or diamond ship icons and the triangle aircraft icons have now been replaced with the icons which I would have only previously seen if I had zoomed right in. i.e. the silhouette icons.

These are visible on the map until I zoom out until the maximum range is about 5000m on the scale bar on the bottom left. All icons disappear completely if I zoom out further until my sub icon becomes visible again at max. zoom out levels.

I just followed the directions in this thread. Have I done something wrong or is this just a side effect of making my position on the nav map invisible?

Thank you,

M

N.B. This is also my first time running with GWX 1.02. Perhaps this version of GWX is the culprit?
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[Maraz]

Great another recruit...:D

We must work hard to get more recruits:p .

Count on me as a new recruit, though I need some time to master "regular" navigation and charting, before... :D :D

This thread is first class stuff, anyway... :up:

Maraz

[Kumando]

Sorry for the double post here but I need to bump this so that my new question may be examined.

I have just started out on my first manual nav patrol. So far so good but I have noticed one little thing.

On the nav map, all of the box or diamond ship icons and the triangle aircraft icons have now been replaced with the icons which I would have only previously seen if I had zoomed right in. i.e. the silhouette icons.

These are visible on the map until I zoom out until the maximum range is about 5000m on the scale bar on the bottom left. All icons disappear completely if I zoom out further until my sub icon becomes visible again at max. zoom out levels.

I just followed the directions in this thread. Have I done something wrong or is this just a side effect of making my position on the nav map invisible?

Thank you,

M

N.B. This is also my first time running with GWX 1.02. Perhaps this version of GWX is the culprit?

I presume you are playing with map contact updates right? If you want to play with manual navigation i recommend you to switch the contacts off, because it kind of defeats the whole purpose of it when your sonar guy draws bearing lines on the map it reveals your position and if wou see where the contacts are on the map they are near your present position and once again it defeats the purpose of it. :huh:

[AndyW]

I just finished a 49 day-patrol this weekend with manual naviagtion. I was out in the North Atlantic south of Greenland, time was February to March 1944.

My rules: If I can see the sun at noon, I made a mark of my position on the map, if not I go dead reckogning. I missed the sunset / sunrise navigation opportunities intentionally to make it more interesting. I almost never zoomed above the 13 km radius map and logged time, course and speed in a paper notebook just like a real nautical log. I calculated the time when I had to change courses to get to my assigned patrol grid and back home.

My observations:

1) I couldn't "shoot the sun" on 22 of the 49 days and had to rely on dead reckogning. This was mainly during three longer bad weather periods without navigation check. One time I had 9 continious days of storm w/o positioning and a two times six days without positioning each. The worst distraction from my dead reckogning course was 77 km off after 6 days, resp. 30 km after 6 days of storm and 50 km after 9 days.

2) I had no problems navigating to my patrol grid, my waypoints and back home.

3) I found it almost impossible to "keep track" while on attack and being hunted. I helped myself with the idea that I must be in a rough 50 km circle somewhere, estimated a bit and waited for my next chance to "shoot the sun".

4) Keeping the course and playing helmman is a pain in the ass, you need to correct the course continiously. Max TC was 256x and once I used 512x I got off course prety badly.

5) It adds much fun to the game during the usually boring "from/to" passages, as you need to "find" your grid or convoy and your way home; one mistake in your calculation and you are screwed until the next time you see the sun and check your position. In a long storm / bad weather phase, this can become a critical issue.

6) Having said this, I found it extremely time consuming as I continiously had to maintain my log, calculate the distances and times etc. After a while you are becoming practised and in good weather you are quite as good as the stock GPS tool. In good weather, nothing really worse can happen anyway, as you can check your position every 24 hrs (if you use sunset/sunrise, too, even around every 8 hours).

CONCLUSION: Using manual Navigation gives you a new "helmsman" feeling of uncertainty to the game; the dull "from/to" parts are gone, you are busy every hour especially as your boat doesn't keep course in bad weather. Than again I didn't found it too challeging in good weather with many possible position checks, but the longer storm periods let you keep guessing if you are right on track or not, that was very nice and thrilling.

Cheers,
AndyW

[Kumando]

I just finished a 49 day-patrol this weekend with manual naviagtion. I was out in the North Atlantic south of Greenland, time was February to March 1944.

My rules: If I can see the sun at noon, I made a mark of my position on the map, if not I go dead reckogning. I missed the sunset / sunrise navigation opportunities intentionally to make it more interesting. I almost never zoomed above the 13 km radius map and logged time, course and speed in a paper notebook just like a real nautical log. I calculated the time when I had to change courses to get to my assigned patrol grid and back home.

My observations:

1) I couldn't "shoot the sun" on 22 of the 49 days and had to rely on dead reckogning. This was mainly during three longer bad weather periods without navigation check. One time I had 9 continious days of storm w/o positioning and a two times six days without positioning each. The worst distraction from my dead reckogning course was 77 km off after 6 days, resp. 30 km after 6 days of storm and 50 km after 9 days.

2) I had no problems navigating to my patrol grid, my waypoints and back home.

3) I found it almost impossible to "keep track" while on attack and being hunted. I helped myself with the idea that I must be in a rough 50 km circle somewhere, estimated a bit and waited for my next chance to "shoot the sun".

4) Keeping the course and playing helmman is a pain in the ass, you need to correct the course continiously. Max TC was 256x and once I used 512x I got off course prety badly.

5) It adds much fun to the game during the usually boring "from/to" passages, as you need to "find" your grid or convoy and your way home; one mistake in your calculation and you are screwed until the next time you see the sun and check your position. In a long storm / bad weather phase, this can become a critical issue.

6) Having said this, I found it extremely time consuming as I continiously had to maintain my log, calculate the distances and times etc. After a while you are becoming practised and in good weather you are quite as good as the stock GPS tool. In good weather, nothing really worse can happen anyway, as you can check your position every 24 hrs (if you use sunset/sunrise, too, even around every 8 hours).

CONCLUSION: Using manual Navigation gives you a new "helmsman" feeling of uncertainty to the game; the dull "from/to" parts are gone, you are busy every hour especially as your boat doesn't keep course in bad weather. Than again I didn't found it too challeging in good weather with many possible position checks, but the longer storm periods let you keep guessing if you are right on track or not, that was very nice and thrilling.

Cheers,
AndyW


Thats ok you added more chalenge to your navigation but realistically speaking, as long as the u-boat navigator could see the sun he would always take measurements of it(i simulate this by not clicking on the rose) and fix more or less their position. Of course at noon,sunrise,sunset would be the most accurate times of the day to fix their position with less margin of error, but anyway im glad you liked this method of navigation it adds so much more to gameplay:up:.

[Kumando]

Great another recruit...:D
We must work hard to get more recruits:p .
Count on me as a new recruit, though I need some time to master "regular" navigation and charting, before... :D :D

This thread is first class stuff, anyway... :up:

Maraz

Thanks mate, any doubt feel free to ask and welcome to the forum:up:.

[Corsair]

Following the post from AndyW, I second that manual navigation is not for people enjoying playing high TC. In bad weather the inability of the helmsmen to keep the sub on course force you to frequent manual adjustments if you want to stay not too far from your course and surfaced (the big dials from simfeeling mod also help a lot). However it is always possible to submerge to eliminate the problem and surface only for reloading batteries.
As I personally play max 128 TC it's not disturbing and keeps me busy.
For the attack/hunted part, it's not so important to have a precise position on the map because during these phases it is the positioning of others relative to your boat that counts. You can even draw your attack plot on a separate piece of paper, it will make no difference.

[Kumando]

Following the post from AndyW, I second that manual navigation is not for people enjoying playing high TC. In bad weather the inability of the helmsmen to keep the sub on course force you to frequent manual adjustments if you want to stay not too far from your course and surfaced (the big dials from simfeeling mod also help a lot). However it is always possible to submerge to eliminate the problem and surface only for reloading batteries.
As I personally play max 128 TC it's not disturbing and keeps me busy.
For the attack/hunted part, it's not so important to have a precise position on the map because during these phases it is the positioning of others relative to your boat that counts. You can even draw your attack plot on a separate piece of paper, it will make no difference.

I also use 128 max and the 6 dial mod, its very useful to correct the course deviations, regarding the combat he means that when you are hunting or being hunted in bad weather ,you make several changes of course and speed and its very difficult to keep track of your position due to this.

[Corsair]

Agreed, but during these phases you are usually moving slow and for short periods of a few hours, so having a general idea of which direction you moved you can't be that far away.

[Kumando]

Agreed, but during these phases you are usually moving slow and for short periods of a few hours, so having a general idea of which direction you moved you can't be that far away.

Agree.

[IRONxMortlock]

I presume you are playing with map contact updates right? If you want to play with manual navigation i recommend you to switch the contacts off, because it kind of defeats the whole purpose of it when your sonar guy draws bearing lines on the map it reveals your position and if wou see where the contacts are on the map they are near your present position and once again it defeats the purpose of it. :huh:
Yep, I was. I hadn't seen any of the sonar lines when I posted this last night as reported this here as soon as I saw it (i.e. as I was leaving port) but afterwards I managed to intercept a convoy (love the uncertainty of this with manual navigation btw! Knew roughly where they would be but thanks to stormy weather and no sun I wasn't sure of my precise position.). Once I submerged though I knew exactly where I was as all the sonar lines pointed straight back to me.

I rationalised that this is OK as it's showing my position relative to the other ships. After the attack I delelted all marks I made during the attack so that I still wouldn't know my exact position in a broader navigational sense (but the sunk ship icons still remain:arrgh!:). Ultimately, I just don't know if I can live without nav map updates. I cannot imagine I how could have possibly set myself up for this attack without them and without knowing where I am. Any suggestions?
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[Dantenoc]

Ultimately, I just don't know if I can live without nav map updates. I cannot imagine I how could have possibly set myself up for this attack without them and without knowing where I am. Any suggestions?

To each player his own, play with what you feel comfortable, and then, pretty soon you'll be wanting to up the ante once you've mastered that. For me, getting rid of the GPS on the sub is not so much about manual navigation, but rather about shooting more from the hip when engaging targets. Once you learn the basic math involved in setting up a good shot, it'll start to become mechanical and even boring with the auto-update feature turned on (a.k.a.: God's eye view). By removing your sub, and removing the automatic sonar conact lines, and removing the automatic ship icons that keep all-to-perfect track of the enemy, you make the game more about manualy obtaining distance, speed and AoB info to feed into the TDC (a closer experience to what a real life captain had to figure out) instead of just going through the motions of an easy kill.

Again, it depends on your level of game. But, I assure you, once you've figured out a few math principles, you'll be able to take waaaaay to much advantage of all the info derived from the "God's eye view" mode, and you'll feel that the game is just too easy... you'll be "in the know" and by then it'll be to late to fake yourself into going back to dumber, but more challenging, times that have long gone by. By then, the only way to get any real enjoyment from the game will be to get rid of all those "unfair" advantages that lower "realism" settings give you, bringing you back to a situation where you don't always sweep the oceans clean :up:

[IRONxMortlock]

Ultimately, I just don't know if I can live without nav map updates. I cannot imagine I how could have possibly set myself up for this attack without them and without knowing where I am. Any suggestions?
To each player his own, play with what you feel comfortable, and then, pretty soon you'll be wanting to up the ante once you've mastered that. For me, getting rid of the GPS on the sub is not so much about manual navigation, but rather about shooting more from the hip when engaging targets. Once you learn the basic math involved in setting up a good shot, it'll start to become mechanical and even boring with the auto-update feature turned on (a.k.a.: God's eye view). By removing your sub, and removing the automatic sonar conact lines, and removing the automatic ship icons that keep all-to-perfect track of the enemy, you make the game more about manualy obtaining distance, speed and AoB info to feed into the TDC (a closer experience to what a real life captain had to figure out) instead of just going through the motions of an easy kill.

Again, it depends on your level of game. But, I assure you, once you've figured out a few math principles, you'll be able to take waaaaay to much advantage of all the info derived from the "God's eye view" mode, and you'll feel that the game is just too easy... you'll be "in the know" and by then it'll be to late to fake yourself into going back to dumber, but more challenging, times that have long gone by. By then, the only way to get any real enjoyment from the game will be to get rid of all those "unfair" advantages that lower "realism" settings give you, bringing you back to a situation where you don't always sweep the oceans clean :up:

I know what you mean. I've been gradually ratcheting up the difficulty over time to make the game more interesting. Not seeing exactly where the targets are on the map is one thing however I have no idea how I would manually attack without knowing my own position too. I'll have a think about it over the weekend and perhaps try a few things out in the naval academy missions.
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[Kumando]

Ultimately, I just don't know if I can live without nav map updates. I cannot imagine I how could have possibly set myself up for this attack without them and without knowing where I am. Any suggestions?
To each player his own, play with what you feel comfortable, and then, pretty soon you'll be wanting to up the ante once you've mastered that. For me, getting rid of the GPS on the sub is not so much about manual navigation, but rather about shooting more from the hip when engaging targets. Once you learn the basic math involved in setting up a good shot, it'll start to become mechanical and even boring with the auto-update feature turned on (a.k.a.: God's eye view). By removing your sub, and removing the automatic sonar conact lines, and removing the automatic ship icons that keep all-to-perfect track of the enemy, you make the game more about manualy obtaining distance, speed and AoB info to feed into the TDC (a closer experience to what a real life captain had to figure out) instead of just going through the motions of an easy kill.

Again, it depends on your level of game. But, I assure you, once you've figured out a few math principles, you'll be able to take waaaaay to much advantage of all the info derived from the "God's eye view" mode, and you'll feel that the game is just too easy... you'll be "in the know" and by then it'll be to late to fake yourself into going back to dumber, but more challenging, times that have long gone by. By then, the only way to get any real enjoyment from the game will be to get rid of all those "unfair" advantages that lower "realism" settings give you, bringing you back to a situation where you don't always sweep the oceans clean :up:

I know what you mean. I've been gradually ratcheting up the difficulty over time to make the game more interesting. Not seeing exactly where the targets are on the map is one thing however I have no idea how I would manually attack without knowing my own position too. I'll have a think about it over the weekend and perhaps try a few things out in the naval academy missions.

To intercept contacts i do the following:

Once you have your contact spoted by bdu on the map(lets assume is a convoy)order all stop and make note of the speed the convoy is making(usually slow wich means about 6,7 knots) and the time it was sighted, consult the speed charts, and draw a line with the ruler in the direction of the convoy reported course to a spot where it will be in a future hour and mark it with the compass.Then fix your own position, if there is sun you are ok, if not its a bit more difficult to fix it but you shouldnt be far from it, then draw a line with the ruler from your assumed position to the spot you assumed the convoy will be, see the distance and once again consult the speed charts and make a speed that will get you to the spot before the convoy arrives. When you arrive to the spot and about 15 minutes before the estimated time of convoy arrival make depht of 30 mts and make hydophone sweeps yourself to try to locate the convoy if you maked the right calculations and the convoy didint changed his course you should have the convoy in sight soon;) . To intecept targets with this kind of navigation the speed charts are of key importance, i use this method and it works most of the times, but not always one bad calculation and you are in a wrong position, but thats what real kaleuns had to face in reality:up: .

[Corsair]

I repeat myself, sorry, but the main concept to grasp is that you do no need to know your exact position on the map to plan an attack on open sea.
During that phase your sub is the center of the world. You just need to choose and mark any starting place when you get the first contact (which can be anywhere on the map or even on a sheet of paper on your desk) and from then on plot your moves and the position of other ships relative to your sub.

[Kumando]

I repeat myself, sorry, but the main concept to grasp is that you do no need to know your exact position on the map to plan an attack on open sea.
During that phase your sub is the center of the world. You just need to choose and mark any starting place when you get the first contact (which can be anywhere on the map or even on a sheet of paper on your desk) and from then on plot your moves and the position of other ships relative to your sub.

To attack when you have the target on sight or in the hidrophone you dont need to know your exact position or the targets position but if you dont have the target on sight or hidrophones you do because if you dont fix a more or less exact position of your sub to intercept the convoy how can you know if you go south or north or west to get to an intercept point? In das boot when they were trying to intercept the convoy, the captain asks to the navigator and he says we should be more or less about here and the enemy is here because the target was not on sight they needed to fix their bearings to reach an intercpt point.

[Corsair]

Sorry mate was answering in fact to Ironx who talked about the attack planning phase.
For the long distance intercept, well you have to start your drawing from where you think you are... If your guess is wrong you probably will miss the intercept.
But anyway the convoy can also change speed/heading and you can miss it as well even when you start from an exact position. Can't win them all !!

[Maraz]

Thats ok you added more chalenge to your navigation but realistically speaking, as long as the u-boat navigator could see the sun he would always take measurements of it(i simulate this by not clicking on the rose) and fix more or less their position. Of course at noon,sunrise,sunset would be the most accurate times of the day to fix their position with less margin of error.

Actually the most accurate sextant readings could be made when the sun was below 45° height above the horizon, but not too low due to atmosphere refraction. The moon could be used as well (both during night and day). Actually you need two sextant readings (e.g. sun and moon) to have a coordinate fix (the two objects must be at different azimuth to hace a good reading, 90 degrees azimuth spacing was the best). Or you could compose reading done at different hours on the same objects (e.g. the sun).

During the night also stars could be used.

So practically when the sky was clear, the position could be estimated with a good accuracy.

Suggested readings:
http://www.dc3airways.com/TechEd/te_nav_lr_nav.html (long range navigation in the '40s, thought for aircraft but somehow applicable also to submarines)

http://www.celnav.de/ (Henning Umland's excellent site about celestial navigation)

In Flight Simulator there is an axcellent mod that simulates a sextant reading, I wonder if something could be made for SH III too...
http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=sextant+bitzer&CatID=fs2004gau&Go=Search

Cheers
Maraz

[Kumando]

So practically when the sky was clear, the position could be estimated with a good accuracy.




Thats what i do:up: .

[Corsair]

I can confirm I had a good friend who was really good at making star positioning at night. It was kind of a hobby for him as we always had electronic instruments onboard, and he always impressed me with that trick...:D

[Dantenoc]

In Flight Simulator there is an axcellent mod that simulates a sextant reading, I wonder if something could be made for SH III too...

I don't think so... several people have already tried and have found that the starts and sun are out of whack in the SHIII world, with even the sunrise and sunset times being a bit off :down:.

[Crosseye76]

Dudes, i get lost driving to the supermarket in my Honda, I don't think i'm quite ready to start tooling around the Atlantic in my VIIB...;)


Just wait until your in the vast reaches of the Pacific on your Fleet boat !!

[Maraz]

I don't think so... several people have already tried and have found that the starts and sun are out of whack in the SHIII world, with even the sunrise and sunset times being a bit off :down:.

Actually the FS sextant gauge does not use the stars graphically represented in the FS Sky.
It works _pretending_ you are doing a star/moon/sun fix.
You must input in the gauge your estimated position (lat/long), and the azimuth/elevation of the sky object you want to use for the fix. To enhance realism, you should look at ephemerides and see the position of the sun, moon, or other bright stars for that date and time, but this is not essential, you can input whatever value you want for the coordinates your sky object.

Then you start the reading, and the gauge shows the position of your sky object (sun/moon/star) offset by an angle proportional to the offset of your estimeted position from the true one.

A picture can show that better.

http://www.webalice.it/antonio.maraziti/sextant.jpg

This was just to clarify how the FS sextant works, I understand that can be very difficult or impossible to implement it in SH III.
Cheers
Maraz

[Dantenoc]

Ah OK, I see what you mean :hmm:... I think that might be beyond the scope of a mod, though... it would be more like coding in a new object (the sextant) with a complete behaviour set.