Hell, how I suck at this game... I really need help.

[Koranis]

Hello.

Before posting this I've read a lot of threads where more experienced captains described their battles. It seems so easy and cool. Well, cool it is, but it is not easy. I play at 100% realism. I have no problem with finding my targets. I have problems with:

1. Approching the escorted convoys.
2. Calculating firing solutions fast
3. Escaping the DS.


1. Now, how do you manage to get behind the DS screen and shadow the merchants? If I move at 3ks I'm to slow, and even at 3ks I'm being found. At higher speed I make more noise, so what the hell?... Is moving ahead far from the convoy and then waiting for them on the route is the only one way to get into the position?

2. When I reach the ideal position I have always little time left before the dogs smell my scent. Then I fail to calculate the optimal firing solution and thus I loose my good position. The only thing is then retreat and repeat the long approach...

3. When the DS are all around me, the only good tactic I found to be working is to pretend to be dead. But even then it takes an hour! I go deep (VIIB so I go at 175 meters) at 3ks but those buggers keep following me! (it's october 1940). I wait for the charges to explode, than I turn, go as deep as I can, at 3ks, but then those buggers keep following me, again!

What am I doing wrong?

Now, it's my third campaign and I've never reached 1941 before. This campaign is going nicely compared to the previous two, and I have good results: I got bombed but then I got out almost without scratch, I take out the targets and so on. But still I feel I'm not doing it right... The DS got me because of my incompetence at approaching the convoys, and because of my stupid courage, ergo not knowing when it's time to hide my ass. I know that even if my tonnage is high enough, I will get myself killed if I keep playing like this... several times so it's not the good way.

[Dekessey]

I'm not a veteran, but from what you wrote it seems you are not at silent running.

Crews will stop making noise. They shouldn't find you if you dive that deep in 1940.

Don't know what else to tell you.

[Deep-Six]

You should be at 2knots, silent running on, and dont have you periscope up too high. The DDs will see it and shoot at it, and will know where you are at.

Dont be afraid to take out DDs.

Silent running is your friend. Use it, breath it, etc.

[Dantenoc]

It's all about the setup.

You have to do things right from the start, because there is no good way to fix a bad situation.

As the people from Langley would say: "once somebody squeezes the toothpaste out of the tube, it's VERY HARD to get it back in"

So yes, you have to be in good position ahead of the convoy a little bit offset from it's proyected track, ready to slip in once the lead escort goes by or it's a no go altogether from the very start.

If things get messy, because you were detected to soon, weren't able to position yourself correctly or any other similar situation, there is no use in asking "how can I fix this?"... the question should be "How can I avoid messing up the next time?".

[Eagle Eye]

The best approach is to get out in front of the convoy

I use two methods, one is to go very deep, run silent, when the lead DD is close go all stop til he passes then come up to PD you'll usually be in position to hit the last two rows of a convoy. at least 80 meters and you still may be detected if he passes right over your boat
It's best to wait ahead of the convoy track the leading DD and two flanking DD's with marks on the chart . Watch their pattern develop then try to cut in diagonally between the lead DD and the flanker on the side you chose to attack.

Once inside the screen use your scope sparingly to plot you targets so they dont sight you and radio the DDs pick targets near the back of the convoy to give your self as much time as possible to gather youtr info until you get faster at it. There are usually pyro ammo ships in the back row which make great targets:arrgh!:they explode so nice:rock:

To escape. If I'm within the convoy I try to turn in the direction the convoy is traveling to make it hard for the escorts to line up on me. If I'm confident I've not been detected I may try to slip out the back of the convoy instead.
175 isn't deep enough. If you've taken no or light damage go deeper. I've gone to 230 to escape in a type 7. 200-210 should get below their pings at your point in the war. Then make sure your running silent and don't exceed 2 knots. Also never turn at more then 10 degrees unless charges are falling. It makes noise and slows you down.

With plotting a solution quicker...can't help you there as I'm still learning maual firing myself :up:

[Koranis]

I go silent, of course. I know the rules, but I have little experience. And how do I manage to cruise at 2ks? The slowest cruise mode is at 3ks!

Thank you everybody for help. :)

p.s. Eagle Eye, hell does VII really resist at 230 meters? I don't dare go deeper than 175...

[robbo180265]

Hi mate. Click on the little green circle thingie next to the telegraph and it'll change to a new dial which will alow you to set your speed, ie 1 kts upwards. Call me paranoid but I do 1kts when silent, sometimes they can still hear you at 2kts.;)

[robbo180265]

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! Navy Dude!:o

[Koranis]

How cool! I finally managed to get out their grasps! Yuhuuu! :)

Wait a minute... that function was already there, I knew I could manipulate the speed and I didn't figure it out before posting... :damn:

[CruiseTorpedo]

In 1940 you should be trying to make surface attacks at night against convoys. The UZO is so much better than the parascope you'll like it a lot! Plus you get a great overall view of the ships so you can pick out the best ones to destroy.

Like the others said get ahead of the convoy but then try to slip into it not by sitting still at 80m depth but by going ahead 1/3 on the surface so your waves are not quite as big and by running towards the ships that are heading towards you your closure rate will be around 13 + knots anyway so you should be inside the escorts quickly. Just dont park yourself right next to an enemy ship and they wont see you. Finding the speed and heading can be done while overhauling the convoy to get ahead of it or just guessing once your in it as a close shot from 800 or less meters is very unlikely to miss unless you enter some really wild numbers into your TDC.

Once the fireworks start the destroyers will turn to come towards you but you still have time to try and escape on the surface or you can choose to dive. I prefer staying up as long as I can. I've had patrols where I've penetrated the same convoy two or three times in the same night on the surface in GWX in 1940. The escorts are few and widely seperated, the real challenge is after the first attack making successful follow ups! With GWX the convoys will begin swerving and really screw with ya once you start sinking ships!

[Koranis]

I tried it as well, but those bastards see me. The distance between the last frigate and me was 2 km and they saw me. It must be because of the weather: it was just a light fog.

[Eagle Eye]

I tried it as well, but those bastards see me. The distance between the last frigate and me was 2 km and they saw me. It must be because of the weather: it was just a light fog.

I've never had good luck with surface attacks :nope:

[Brag]

If you are not in a good position to begin the attack, don't even try. ;)

[mookiemookie]

Wait until conditions are right. If you get obsessed with one target, more often than not you'll make stupid decisions that put your boat at risk and just generally make life hard on yourself. Dantenoc was right...there's no fixing a bad situation. Don't put yourself in one!

It's ok to let a ship or two go if conditions just aren't right. :know:

[RawRecruit]

Attack on the surface only at night. It's all about the plan. You track the convoy from waaaay off during the day and get ahead of them for night fall. With careful planning you can then approach at low speed and decks awash if it's reasonably calm. I've got very close in GWX before being spotted, at which point it's too late for the poor old merchies as the eels are on their way! If you like playing historically, too, you can use the WO to calculate the solution which leaves you to pay more attention to speed, positioning and target selection.

[Koranis]

I have some problems during manual targetting. I do use WO's help when I'm on the surface, but since it happened only once or twice, I have to do all the calculating from PD, so WO is unavailable ;) I have problems with calculating speed. Everytime I try it gives me or a to low speed or unbelivebal high speeds. I think it is due to my own speed. Is there a good method?

And from what distance do you usually launch the torps?

I have a ton of questions, but these problems are hampering my game experience!

Thank you a lot for the patience and the help.

[Spin Doctor]

I’ve answered this question many times in the past, I wish I could point you to one of my old threads, but alas, that has all been archived and deleted. The other posts give good advice,but I'm gonna spill my guts here.

So, I’m gonna tell you my favorite 100% surefire, never miss method of tracking, overhauling and engaging a convoy. I’ve used this method hundreds of times and it always works, because it all about tactics, keeping the advantage, and not being caught with your pants down.. There are other methods, and of course investigate them if you like.

NOTE: I have not tried the GWX mod with these tactics, but plan to install it tonight. I think it will work with it too, but that remains to be seen. My old game is heavily modded and pretty tough, but I've never been detected using this method. Well maybe once or twice...

Caution, this is a big, long winded post…

First scenario: Early War (pre 1943). Dates are important. The presence of radar will force you to change your tactics, so the happy times before 1943 are the times to rack up kills, because later in the war, you really just want to stay alive long enough to get the war over so you can get back to Heidi.

You’ve received an incoming message detailing the location of the enemy convoy. I assume that you can see the convoy icon on your map so now use the ruler to draw a line from the very tail of the convoy icon, through the box and out about 150km or so. You want to be really accurate when you draw this line since if you are, you will be within about a few hundred meters of the convoys heading out to nearly 100 km. Zoom in and be sure you get a good data line. It's almost like cheating, but if the information is there, use it. So, now you just marked off the convoys heading. You should have also been given the convoy speed in knots. So now you need to figure out how long it will take you to intercept the convoy. I haven’t played the game in a long time, so I will leave it to you to figure how to calculate the time of your arrival to the intercept point and then estimate the location of the convoy at the time you get to their path of travel.

Basically all you have to do is plot a course to the intercept point such that you are ahead of the convoy by about an hour or so and set your boat up perpendicular to their path of travel..

Set the stopping point about 1500 meters from the intercept point and perpendicular to the convoy path of travel. Of course you want them passing you like a shooting gallery which it soon will be.

OK, now you should be close enough to observe the convoy as it approaches and allow you time to maneuver into position. In the early war, before radar, you can sit on the surface and wait and when your WO says ship spotted, it will more than likely be the lead destroyer. It should be about 6km away, and it will not see you, so at that point go to PD, ahead slow, set speed to 2 knots. Once below the waves, go to the hydrophones and set yourself up such that the main body of the convoy screw noise is coming from about the 70 - 80 degree point, not 90 degrees. (I'm assuming you're making a portside attack) This will allow the outside edge of the convoy to pass you at about 1000 meters or less. You're driving the boat, so you can figure how to make it work for you and get to your optimum firing range. If you want to get cute, you can try to get into the center of the convoy (hydrophone screw noise at 90 degrees), but that gets dicey with ships sailing all around you. That said, it is a little safer as the DDs can’t really get to you when you’re surrounded by ships so you make the call, Captain.

Ok, so here they come. You should be silent running PD, making 2 knots and watching as the lead DD passes in front of you. (I personally like to have him pass in front, not behind.) If you don’t do anything crazy, he will go right by and then, Huzzah!, you have just piecered the defenses of the convoy.

So now what? Wait for a target to amble by. He will have to be pretty close for you to get an accurate range, But you should still try to position yourself so that he passes close enough for a clean hit (but not too close). After a bit you can get more accurate when you can clearly see a mast, take some more ranges, mark them on the map and then position yourself so that your target passes about 600 – 800 meters in front of you. Don’t worry about speed yet.

So now, he’s about 65 degrees AoB and closing, so now slow your speed to 1 knot, or go to all stop. This will give you better speed results. Lock up the target, if you haven’t already, click your crono and let it run for a minute or so. Actually the closer to a 90 degree AoB you have, the better the speed calc so you can run the watch for less time. Truth be told since you were already given the convoy speed, there is no need to calculate it, but hey, it's good practice. Experiment with this and do what ever is comfortable. Now you should have a good speed calc and a pretty good AoB estimate. He’s nearing your optimum fire zone so now take one last range reading, open your bow caps and FIRE! This is a guaranteed hit, I promise you.

So now another ship is coming close behind, and you have time for another shot. Do as before and fire. The first fish (or salvo) might have hit by now, but the convoy hasn’t reacted to the threat and now the second attack should be under way. You can stay and watch the fun or get the heck outta there. I opt for the latter.

Some like to turn and travel with the convoy, but I find that messy. I go the opposite way, out the back. When I get a sufficient distance away, I surface, plot a course about 7000 meters away (out of visual range, since they have no radar) and parallel with the convoy heading and go to a flank bell, passing the convoy as mentioned, outside the visual range. You already have their heading marked, so just use that line to set yourself up again. A little math will tell you how long you need to travel to get ahead of the convoy and then repeat the method you used to set yourself up in the first place.

That’s basically it. Don’t worry about attacking on the surface, and all that. You can try that if you want, but if you get distracted, you stand a good chance of getting your ass handed to you. Your prime directive is to remain unseen. You will just have to get good at using the scope and getting accurate ranges which allows you to monitor the convoy position. The rest is gravy.

In the late war when radar is active, once you get into your intercept position, you cannot wait till you see the lead ship to dive as you have been detected long before that. What I do then, is get to an intercept point, turn towards the convoy and look for them through the scope and use the convoy noise to tell me where to be.

Then when you do your end around after the first attack, go out about 10,000 meters or more to avoid the radar while you are passing them up. Any other tactics you want to use is up to you, but you will always get kills with this method.

If you happen to stumble upon a convoy on your own and don’t know the heading and speed, you will need to do this yourself from a distance, which can be difficult, but not impossible. Be patient and get some good data, then go to the intercept point and wait. Keep the advantage.

Escaping the DD’s is another big, longwinded post, best left for another time as I gotta get back to work. Lunch is over.

Good Luck

[Koranis]

Hell, Spin Doctor, thank you for taking your time (Lunch time...) to write this guide. I've already used this method in my campaigns, but I missed several little details you showed me that will do the difference. Thanks to everyone for the effort in instructing this noob.


By the way, out of curiosity, how long do your patrols last?

p.s. I will worry about radar once I get to 1943, then I will be buggering you again.

[Spin Doctor]

Personally, my patrols don't last all that long. Maybe a few weeks at the most. I just installed GWX and started a new Career in Oct 1940 out of St. Nazaire. I'm noticing I'm using torps more than normal, so they may end up shorter still. I happened upon a large cargo freighter sailing alone and engaged him to get my crew (and myself) a bit of experience. He took three torps before his engines quit and even then took awhile in sinking.

One thing about this mod is that it uses hella amount of memory. I have a Gig, but this machine is pretty old so it's running at the limit now. Seems to run ok, though.

[Brag]

[ 1. Now, how do you manage to get behind the DS screen and shadow the merchants? If I move at 3ks I'm to slow, and even at 3ks I'm being found. At higher speed I make more noise, so what the hell?... Is moving ahead far from the convoy and then waiting for them on the route is the only one way to get into the position? ]

At 3 knots you're too bloody fast and noisy. To avoid detection stay at 3 knots or slower!

You must position yourself ahead of the target/convoy. Fire your torpedoes and sneak away. Don't stay in location from which you fired. Read my convoy attack article.

[Brag]

Spin -- good tactics for stock SHIII. In GWX the complications begin. 1.) Convoys change course frequently. Air patrols (when in Range) will mess up your staying on the surface close to conboy. When overtaking you need more than 7 kms clearance (double that, at least). The escorts in GWX are a lot more efficient than SHIII stock.

[Foghladh_mhara]

p.s. I will worry about radar once I get to 1943, then I will be buggering you again.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
None of that talk of buggering here now! This is a family thread:oops:

[Spin Doctor]

Spin -- good tactics for stock SHIII. In GWX the complications begin. 1.) Convoys change course frequently. Air patrols (when in Range) will mess up your staying on the surface close to conboy. When overtaking you need more than 7 kms clearance (double that, at least). The escorts in GWX are a lot more efficient than SHIII stock.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm wondering about that 7km clearance you mentioned. So the patrols can see you even at night past that distance? I can sort of understand their being able to spot further than the stock 7km during the day, but twice that especially at night should be physically impossible before the advent of radar.

[Tobus]

Spin -- good tactics for stock SHIII. In GWX the complications begin. 1.) Convoys change course frequently. Air patrols (when in Range) will mess up your staying on the surface close to conboy. When overtaking you need more than 7 kms clearance (double that, at least). The escorts in GWX are a lot more efficient than SHIII stock.

I found (to my dismay in the beginning, now its fun and challenging) that in GWX you have to be carefull. In stock SHIII you shamelessly could go for the 100k club and end up around that number (never quite hit it though, my highest was 98k). Now, I'm always skulking, even as early as 1940. Taking big risks can achieve a lot but also cost you a lot. I don't do harbors anymore, since getting out is virtually impossible after sinking anything. All in all, like it must have been back IRL.

[RawRecruit]

Spin -- good tactics for stock SHIII. In GWX the complications begin. 1.) Convoys change course frequently. Air patrols (when in Range) will mess up your staying on the surface close to conboy. When overtaking you need more than 7 kms clearance (double that, at least). The escorts in GWX are a lot more efficient than SHIII stock.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm wondering about that 7km clearance you mentioned. So the patrols can see you even at night past that distance? I can sort of understand their being able to spot further than the stock 7km during the day, but twice that especially at night should be physically impossible before the advent of radar.

They don't see that far at night. I've been as close as 2km to the escorts in '40 and '41 and not been spotted. Just keep your speed down and don't present a broadside.

[Spin Doctor]

...You must position yourself ahead of the target/convoy. Fire your torpedoes and sneak away. Don't stay in location from which you fired. Read my convoy attack article.

I checked out your convoy article. Nicely done. Looks like the same tactics I'd use.

[AVGWarhawk]

p.s. I will worry about radar once I get to 1943, then I will be buggering you again. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
None of that talk of buggering here now! This is a family thread:oops:

Is this high sea buggery?:o