the B's and H's..

[She-Wolf]

oh dear, I need to understand about 'bearings' and 'headings' and stuff. I look at the guides as and when I need them, else it doesn't stay in, but on the topic of bearings and headings I THOUGHT I had a basic understanding of sorts - but it seems I don't. We almost came to sharp words last night when best beloved try to explain it to me - so I will ask here instead :up:

Now then. There I am, tootling toward the south, so on a bearing of 180 - or should that be a heading? Then someone yells out that there is a warship closing, bearing 153 ( or something), so I think that means a little to my left, but suddenly a line shoots out from my sub ( this is on the navmap) and points to somewhere way behind me. I query best beloved and HE says something about the bearing being relative to me and that I have to subtract it from the course I am on. Eh? I says - and it goes downhill from there.. so please, to keep the gentle accord we are used to in this little house, will someone please explain in just the smallest and single-worded way possible about b's and h's so that this bear of little brain can understand. Ta:D

[Mush Martin]

oh dear, I need to understand about 'bearings' and 'headings' and stuff. I look at the guides as and when I need them, else it doesn't stay in, but on the topic of bearings and headings I THOUGHT I had a basic understanding of sorts - but it seems I don't. We almost came to sharp words last night when best beloved try to explain it to me - so I will ask here instead :up:

Now then. There I am, tootling toward the south, so on a bearing of 180 - or should that be a heading? Then someone yells out that there is a warship closing, bearing 153 ( or something), so I think that means a little to my left, but suddenly a line shoots out from my sub ( this is on the navmap) and points to somewhere way behind me. I query best beloved and HE says something about the bearing being relative to me and that I have to subtract it from the course I am on. Eh? I says - and it goes downhill from there.. so please, to keep the gentle accord we are used to in this little house, will someone please explain in just the smallest and single-worded way possible about b's and h's so that this bear of little brain can understand. Ta:D

OK course is the direction the ship is travelling against the compass

your watch crew calls out the bearing to target refering to the bow of
your own boat as north when they give the bearing so you can be heading

south on a course of 180 and a plane can come out of the north from
the compass bearing of zero but your crew will say

aircraft spotted 180

the compass on the conning tower and elsewhere have an outside and
an inside ring one for bearing and one for course.
have a look.

PS click the last link in my siggy.


:|\\

[She-Wolf]

'against the compass' means 'in reference to'. So a southerly course = 180 deg, zat right?

but even though I am heading south, my crew will 'pretend' my bow is north = 360 degrees??

and then, when a plane flies from the North - 360 degrees, they will tell me it is on a bearing of 180 degrees, which will tell me its behind me, because I am going south, although they are pretending I am really pointed north?

think I will go and do the washing up!

It WILL make sense to me, the penny will drop - dont give up on me!

[Steppenwolf]

There are 360 degrees in a circle.

Heading or Course (same thing) is the direction you are travelling in:
North is always 0 degrees
As you rotate clockwise the number representing the heading increases so,
East is always 90 degrees
South is always 180 degrees
West is always 270 degrees
When you get all the way around the circle to 360 degrees, you are back facing North again. So 0 degrees and 360 degrees BOTH refer to NORTH.

NOTE: The game usually only refers to heading, when you click a new heading on the compass.

Bearing is where something is, relative to the front of your submarine:
Bearing is the numbers you see through the periscope and binoculars and on that big overlay that you see when you zoom way in on the F5 Navigation Map.
Bearing is also what the game is usually referring to, when it tells you about contacts.

The front of your sub is always 0 degrees
As you rotate around your bridge clockwise, the number representing the bearing increases so,
Directly to your right is always 90 degrees
Directly behind you is always 180 degrees
Directly to your left is always 270 degrees

Example: This is why, in your example, when your crew said a contact was at a bearing of 153, the contact line drawn was behind you and to the right. Because 153 is between 90(directly to your right) and 180(directly behind you).

[Mush Martin]

both you and the target ship have a course

you have a relevant bearing as seen from the target

the target has a relevant bearing while seen from you.

bearing is expressed in compass terms but with your
bow and stern being north and south.

course you already understand.

Own course and target course.

course can be synonimous with "heading"

whats target heading is the same question as whats target course

is this helping?:|\\

[robbo180265]

Zoom in on the Nav map and your sub icon will be surrounded by a circle with all the relative bearings on it-works for me;)

[She-Wolf]

There are 360 degrees in a circle.

yus:up:

Heading or Course (same thing) is the direction you are travelling in:

right

North is always 0 degrees

yes....

As you rotate clockwise the number representing the heading increases so,
East is always 90 degrees
South is always 180 degrees
West is always 270 degrees

yes, still with you:)

When you get all the way around the circle to 360 degrees, you are back facing North again.

yes

So 0 degrees and 360 degrees BOTH refer to NORTH.

ah, yes, I see. North is 0 because it is, well North, fixed, but it is also 360 degrees on the compass...kay..

Bearing is where something is, relative to the front of your submarine:

so when a boat is spotted and the bearing is given, it isn't HIS bearing - the information isn't that he is (say) heading south (180deg) it is a bearing relative to where MY bow is pointing... eek

Bearing is the numbers you see through the periscope

yes, so if I am looking at a boat through the scope,say at 90, does that mean the boat I am looking at is east of me?


The front of your sub is always 0 degrees

this is where I have been coming unstuck...

As you rotate around your bridge clockwise, the number representing the bearing increases so,
Directly to your right is always 90 degrees
Directly behind you is always 180 degrees
Directly to your left is always 270 degrees

'kay

Example: This is why, in your example, when your crew said a contact was at a bearing of 153, the contact line drawn was behind you and to the right. Because 153 is between 90(directly to your right) and 180(directly behind you)

erm.. right.. its coming, I just have to ponder on it- thank you Steppenwolf, great help

[She-Wolf]

Grey Wolf, it IS helping, the light just needs to get through some rather woolly cloud!:D

[bigboywooly]

All bearings are relative to your sub
Whichever direction you are sailing in - all reports from your crew work from the point your bow is 0

If you get a report that an aicraft is 180 degrees its coming from behind
Irregardless of your boats heading

[She-Wolf]

Zoom in on the Nav map and your sub icon will be surrounded by a circle with all the relative bearings on it-works for me;)

Oh, right, I will try that Robs

[She-Wolf]

All bearings are relative to your sub
Whichever direction you are sailing in - all reports from your crew work from the point your bow is 0

If you get a report that an aicraft is 180 degrees its coming from behind
Irregardless of your boats heading

BB now I have it; my bow is ALWAYS 0. I don't quite understand WHY, but that bit of info has gone home - thank you :up:

[bigboywooly]

:up:

[Rykaird]

Yup, you've got it.

There are two sets of compass directions:

1) Course: This is an absolute direction. It is the number of degrees you are heading from true north. A course of 0 degrees is due North; a course of 180 degrees is due south; a course of 90 degrees is due east; a course of 270 degrees is due west.

2) The bearing to the target. This is a relative direction, independent of your course and based completely on the target's direction relative to your bow. Your bow is simply considered to be pointing to zero, regardless of whether you are actually heading north, east, west, or south. A bearing of zero means the target is directly in front of you; a bearing of 90 degrees means the target is directly to your right; a bearing of 180 means they are directly behind you; a bearing of 270 means they are directly to your left.

As you have noted, the bearing of the target has absolutely nothing to do with the course of the target. If the target has a bearing of 180, he's directly behind you. But he could be gaining on you, running from, or crossing your path.

By the way, you shouldn't feel bad about this. If you watch the film "Das Boot" very carefully, there's a scene where they are being depth charged and the captain, an experienced and wily skipper, is doing the maths under his breath: "238 degrees minus 45 . . . "

[Sailor Steve]

[BB now I have it; my bow is ALWAYS 0. I don't quite understand WHY, but that bit of info has gone home - thank you :up:
The why should become easy if you think of your face as the boat. Your heading is the direction you're heading(!) If I'm standing to your right, then my bearing is RIGHT, no matter whether I'm heading (!) away from you, toward you or in the same or opposite direction. A ship always travels along its heading. It's bearing is always where it is in relation to you.

You already understand the where; I hope that helps with the why. If not, I'll go back under my bridge.

[Steppenwolf]

Glad you got it She-Wolf. Tag team teaching at its finest:)

[Mush Martin]

good show.
MM:up:

[Gildor]

Think of it this way: your boat is the center of the universe. The compass has nothing to do with the tactical situation other than calculating howand when you will intercept your target.

The direction of your travel is the "heading". Everything else in relation to your boat is at a "bearing". Bow of your boat is 0, Aft of your boat is 180. Port is "left" (270), and Starboard is "right" (90).

I have a navy background and when I stood lookout duties I was use to calling contacts as Red 25 or Green 120 as opposed to bearings.

Red is port, green is starboard.

SO a contact would be something like "OOW, Starboard lookout, bearing Green 25 ship far" or something similar. That would mean a ship contact to the right of our heading by 25 degrees

[irish1958]

She's got it; I think she's got it; by god, she's got it!
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain!
By god, she's got it!!!

[She-Wolf]

you are a cracking bunch.

I am going to hard copy some of the finer points you have explained so I can remind myself in the game - but already I see it will be easier to calculate what is where now that I understand that I am always 0. That is the key.

Gildor, best beloved ( Pete) was going on about the (more modern?) custom of indicating port or starboard. He not a sailor, but being quite a lot on ships that were using radar ( he worked for PlesseyMarine as an engineer), he knows a few things.

I am keen to get back in and practice my newly acquired knowledge now, but will have to wait til tomorrow night (grr)

thanks fellas:D:know:

[minute]

yes, so if I am looking at a boat through the scope,say at 90, does that mean the boat I am looking at is east of me?

Yes, if by 'east of me' you mean "to my right". I'm not a native english speaker but as far as I understand 'East of me' can also mean "towards the geographical east".

The direction "towards the geographical east" is not an absolute bearing number. The bearing of something "towards the geographical east" depends on your heading as well but can be calculated as 90degrees minus current heading.

[She-Wolf]

thank you Minute. I was talking to Pete ( him who belonga me) about my better understanding, and he was explaining how I might report the position of a contact. His example was, that if I was going on a course of 70degrees, and the contact was reported at 230 degrees relative to me ( I understand that bit now thanks to you all), I would add the two sums to make 300 degrees, which would be the true(?) bearing of the contact. Zat right? I still have to find out about subtracting ( like the skip does in Das Boot), but Pete said that if I get a sum of more than 360, I simply subtract the 360. I can follow that!

[Steppenwolf]

His example was, that if I was going on a course of 70degrees, and the contact was reported at 230 degrees relative to me ( I understand that bit now thanks to you all), I would add the two sums to make 300 degrees, which would be the true(?) bearing of the contact.
That is correct.

[She-Wolf]

ahh.. ( satisfied sigh):D

[CaptainAsh]

...but already I see it will be easier to calculate what is where now that I understand that I am always 0. That is the key.

So you missed the point actualy:rotfl:
The point is you don t have to calculate anything :)
Think in term of useful information.
When you re changing your course, what the important thing you want to know? where you are or where you want to go? Where you want to go of course... so your helm officer is giving you your heading. You don t need to calculate anything.
When your watch officer is reporting a contact, what is the more important thing to know right now? Where s it going or where is it? Where it is of course... so the watch officer is giving you the bearing of the contact.
You don t have to mixed heading and bearing consideration before ploting your interception path actualy.

[She-Wolf]

yes, ok, but if I have to report a contact to HQ ( or summat), how will I be able to tell them where the contact actually is? Perhaps that is not necessary in SH3, but I would like to know anyway. I do take your point though :up:

[High Voltage]

yes, ok, but if I have to report a contact to HQ ( or summat), how will I be able to tell them where the contact actually is? Perhaps that is not necessary in SH3, but I would like to know anyway. I do take your point though :up:

Well, for you to report where the contact is would take more than just heading and bearing, as you have not yet identified WHERE YOU ARE on the map. The values you would reporting would tell BDU in which direction (course) the target is travelling, but you would first have to give them a starting position via Latitude and Longitude so that they could then plot YOUR COURSE and from there figure out where the target is and is heading...

there are some out here in GWX who play with manual navigation, that is the map does not even show their sub icon, so they are forced to navigate either by using land reference points or celestial navigation...and that my dear, is a road you don't want to head down just yet...

Cheers,

the crew of U-333