"PC mod scene... already in trouble"

[flintlock]

An interesting take on the subject:

"President of Red Orchestra developer Tripwire airs his views on the breakout of console mod development."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=158659

[Boris]

I think it's going to be a number of years yet before we see modding "die". From the article it seems that mods are being increasingly commercialised.

Bur for niche titles such as SH, we shouldn't worry too much, because we all know the small mods thrive.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I disagree with it being in trouble. So long as there are games, there will be mods for them. Just take SH3 as an example, even if it is a niche market, like Boris said, its gotten SO much mod support and those mods have really improved the stock game.

As for them becoming commercialised, I dont really see the problem. If mods as good as Red Orchestra want to become stand-alone, good for them.

[geetrue]

On Xbox you use to be able to pick up a game box to see if you could lan it between two or more xbox's (which my son and I had), but not anymore.

Now you have to get online with xbox live, which we can't get in the boonies.

[GlobalExplorer]

Some interesting points in the article.

I am always trying to make others aware that making mods is not the same like it used to be 10 years ago. A lot of things went wrong in those years, and there are lessons to be learned:

Lesson: Don't make mods to get attention. Unlike the old days, people can get really angry because they have been dissappointed before by people like you.

Lesson: Set yourself realistic goals. 9 out of 10 mods nowadays never get finished because people are ****ing amateurs.

Lesson: Focus. Know where you have to stop, otherwise you will be stopped dead. Your biggest adversary is yourself, because you are in caonstant danger to burn out on the idea.

Lesson: Start with the difficult tasks before you take on anything that is fun. Things like making 3D models without knowing how to put them in the game are a the sure path to big dissappointment.

Lesson: Don't announce something that you just started. That's another hallmark of the amateur. Announce something only if you are sure you have removed all big obstacles.

Lesson: Don't release a mod too late. There might be a sequel around the corner, and no one will play your mod. I can give the saddest examples here, like the wonderful "Crusader States" for RTW which was released two days before MTW2.

Just last words from me: If nowadays a big big mod gets announced I ignore it at first. Having seen so many amateurs waste everyones time before, I want to see releases, not announcements nowadays. I sometimes go to threads and politely ask these people unpleasant questions, sometimes got the most hostile reactions. And of course none of the mods I did this with ever saw the light of day, or possibly will.

Some harsh words maybe. I still stick to it. People should only promise things if they can deliver. I hope that will become the modders ethics of the 2010's and onwards.

PC mods are not in trouble, they are just changing.

GE

[Kapitan_Phillips]

As an example of dedication to a mod, there's one guy and an intermittent team working on a total conversion for Doom 3, based on Dawn of the Dead. The kinds of things this guy has done are phenomenal, see for yourself:

Dawn of the Dead Mod (http://www.blacktreeuk.net/dawn_of_the_dead_home.html)

[ReallyDedPoet]

PC mods are not in trouble, they are just changing.

GE

I agree with that, I can see people modding into the forseable future:up:

[CCIP]

Also, I should note that what the guy says is pretty much irrelevant to our modding scene here with DW/SHIII. The modding scenes he's talking about are with big-time engines, mostly shooters, which gather a lot of modders (and wannabies) around them and there is a ton of total conversions going around. Here we have pretty much what the guy refers to as "back in the day" with "a few highly anticipated mods" and "when a mod is released it's a big thing". We're smaller and more focused. There's less that can be done with both SHIII and DW by virtue of relatively closed engines, but I think within those limits there's also been a lot of focused and dedicated work. I don't want to come off the wrong way - but the modding community here hasn't been concerned with creative work, that is they're not creating completely new games out of the original games; however what they are doing and what is often missing from the other communities is improving the core game itself. We're still on the North Atlantic with GWX for example, but it's a vastly improved North Atlantic!

[flintlock]

I think you're missing the point behind Gibson's comment about PC mods being in trouble. The reason he feels this way is PC mods are simply declining in popularity (for a variety valid reasons he lists). Now the trend of some of the truly talented modders shifing their focus from the PC platform to consoles, doesn't bode well for the PC mod scene as a collective whole. In this sense, he feels that the PC mod scene is already in trouble.

[flintlock]

I should note that what the guy says is pretty much irrelevant to our modding scene here with DW/SHIII.
Absolutely, and you make very valid points throughout your post.

[GlobalExplorer]

I think you're missing the point behind Gibson's comment about PC mods being in trouble. The reason he feels this way is PC mods are simply declining in popularity (for a variety valid reasons he lists). Now the trend of some of the truly talented modders shifing their focus from the PC platform to consoles, doesn't bode well for the PC mod scene as a collective whole. In this sense, he feels that the PC mod scene is already in trouble.

The quality vs. quantity argument is valid. I have headed away from some communities (namely Total War and Morrowind) because of that. However the biggest problem I see at the moment is that there are hardly any games I want to play / games I want to mod.

If modders are heading towards consoles I don't care because I don't care about consoles.

While the big money will always be made with consoles / kiddies stuff, my hope is that in the near future their will be small companys committed to adult PC games, very much like the indy music scene. Most of these games will be moddable, otherwise they have to be very good to succeed.

In the subsim community we are blessed only because the subsim appeals to the thinking man. It gave birth to some of the finest mods, and will continue to do so.