Turning off the external camera - a thrill unto itself

[Ducimus]

Making a wild guess here, im guessing most people have the external camera on. I mean, lets face it, we all love eye candy. External camera gives the game a cinematic feel. Seeing your own uboat (complete with that real cool tower emblem, and rust that makes it look like an old salt and war veteran) is very appealing and gratifying. What's more seeing the damage you've wrought onto your target with debris (or bodies) flying with massive explosions is REALLY gratifying.

However....
with all that goodness comes some negative's, at least in my opinion. But to summerize the negative, the external camera takes away an element of uncertaintly, suspense, and beleivablity.

For example, you have one or more sound contacts. You have no idea what they are. One quick push of the , or . keys and you instantly know. Or you could cycle views on every ship in an entire convoy and see what you have in there. The reality is, you'd never know what these sound contacts are until you pop the scope. (same goes for RWR or radar contacts too). The short of it is, the external camera gives you far far FAR more info then a real submarine captain would have had. A sub has two primary sensors really. The good ole fashined eyeball fixed on a periscope or pair of bonoculars or sound.. your hydrophones. In a situation where your submerged, the hydrophones become your eyes.

Another example is all the building and landscape. Its beleive able when viewed from the bridge, but looking at it up close, things tend to look a bit on the lame side.

other exampbles would be seeing exacly how your torpedo's hit, or the status of a target that was hit when submerged beyond periscope depth.. something you'd never be able to do in real life.

But the biggest example is that element of suspense and claustphobia. Not present to any large degree when your boat is 250 meters deep, and yet your looking at your pursuer on the surface as if bobbing around in a life boat. Imagine yourself under a depth charge attack, without the ablity to hit F12 or any other camera hotkeys. Sound plays a much bigger role, and like the captain in dasboot, you have to wonder, "What's going on up there, running away? ".

With your view confined to essentually the control room. All you have to rely on is your brains, wits, your sonar, and your gut instincts. Personnally i find myself alot more attentive - closing my eyes, trying to visualize whats going on up there. Other times i even find myself on the edge of my seat because the antcipation of what might about to happen is just killing me! The desire to hit F12 to releive that is immense, but when you don't do it, and succeed, its pretty satisfying.


Point of all this is..... Try turning off that external camera for at least one patrol and see how your experience changes - particuarlly if your being depth charged. I know the eye candy is hard to give up, but personnaly i think its worth it.

[Venatore]

I would be so happy if I could just look at my U-boat and nothing else :hmm: stop the cycling of other ships :hmm: I agree totally, I love the unknown of what surface ship you have encountered, but like always I can't help myself :shifty:

[Letum]

Turning off externals is the biggest addition you can make to game-play, realism and atmosphere.
Even Bigger than GWX. ;)

Turning externals off is also the biggest drop in graphics.

What is more important to you?

[JScones]

I've never played with external (or event) camera on. Wouldn't have it any other way. :)

[alexoscar]

On my opinion, the best would be a mod that let us use the external camera when there isnt any ship or plane near us, but with the impossibility to use these views in combat or hunting.

What we need is getting the cinematic scenes in peace and rest moments (sailing to area or returning to harbour), and disable (by default) this option in "action". The tentation is too strong for the most of us.

I suposse that this is impossible because I imagine this kind of things are hardcoded in the program. It's a pity

Regards.

[Jimbuna]

Well....I admit I'm an eye candy addict :lol:

[stabiz]

Well....I admit I'm an eye candy addict :lol:

I will never remove the external cam, I like roaming about when I leave port, look at new subskins, make movies (never know when its good to start one), and taking screenshots.

All of those would have to go, so no.

Good that you guys find stuff that enhanses the game for you, though.

[Gezoes]

Been thinking about turning it off for a few days now...

Maybe next patrol... I find myself trying to NOT use it when being DC'ed... but well, you know... ;)

Maybe next patrol...

One thing I really like is that popping up the scope or being able to surface feels much more special too!

[azn_132]

Well....I admit I'm an eye candy addict :lol:

I will never remove the external cam, I like roaming about when I leave port, look at new subskins, make movies (never know when its good to start one), and taking screenshots.

All of those would have to go, so no.

Good that you guys find stuff that enhanses the game for you, though.

Also make more vids too u know.

[Jimbuna]

The external camera is always handy for keeping an 'eye' on things :arrgh!:
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5862/eyes0153fqis8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Syxx_Killer]

I have played with the external camera off before. It is a whole new experience. It gave me an added sense of accomplishment when attacking or evading. However, as bored as I am with SH3, I still like to watch ships sink if I find myself playing the game. A while back I turned off the < and > commands to cycle views. This left me with only the F12 view. Setting it up this way, I won't know what contact is at the other end of the line. For those interested you can disable the < and > commands. It is pretty easy. Go to your commands_en.cfg file. Look for commands 50 and 51. Place a ; in front of the line that assigns the button.

[Brag]

I like to take screenies. Viewing these when off game gives me added pleasure. Using the external camera as a cheat detracts from the experience and lowers SHIII to an arcade level game.

[azn_132]

I only use external cam for screens and short event vids.

[danurve]

I don't use event camera, but the external camera stays. :yep:

[Lightning61]

I'm relatively new to SH3, but I realized after my first death that I couldn't be bothered with the external cam amongst everything else going on while I was dying. :huh:
BTW... I'm now up to 79%, and ready to go as far as my little pea sized brain will allow! ;):yep::D:lol::()1:

[_Seth_]

I will never remove the external cam, I like roaming about when I leave port, look at new subskins, make movies (never know when its good to start one), and taking screenshots.

:yep: :up::up::up:

[codmander]

Making a wild guess here, im guessing most people have the external camera on. I mean, lets face it, we all love eye candy. External camera gives the game a cinematic feel. Seeing your own uboat (complete with that real cool tower emblem, and rust that makes it look like an old salt and war veteran) is very appealing and gratifying. What's more seeing the damage you've wrought onto your target with debris (or bodies) flying with massive explosions is REALLY gratifying.

However....
with all that goodness comes some negative's, at least in my opinion. But to summerize the negative, the external camera takes away an element of uncertaintly, suspense, and beleivablity.

For example, you have one or more sound contacts. You have no idea what they are. One quick push of the , or . keys and you instantly know. Or you could cycle views on every ship in an entire convoy and see what you have in there. The reality is, you'd never know what these sound contacts are until you pop the scope. (same goes for RWR or radar contacts too). The short of it is, the external camera gives you far far FAR more info then a real submarine captain would have had. A sub has two primary sensors really. The good ole fashined eyeball fixed on a periscope or pair of bonoculars or sound.. your hydrophones. In a situation where your submerged, the hydrophones become your eyes.

Another example is all the building and landscape. Its beleive able when viewed from the bridge, but looking at it up close, things tend to look a bit on the lame side.

other exampbles would be seeing exacly how your torpedo's hit, or the status of a target that was hit when submerged beyond periscope depth.. something you'd never be able to do in real life.

But the biggest example is that element of suspense and claustphobia. Not present to any large degree when your boat is 250 meters deep, and yet your looking at your pursuer on the surface as if bobbing around in a life boat. Imagine yourself under a depth charge attack, without the ablity to hit F12 or any other camera hotkeys. Sound plays a much bigger role, and like the captain in dasboot, you have to wonder, "What's going on up there, running away? ".

With your view confined to essentually the control room. All you have to rely on is your brains, wits, your sonar, and your gut instincts. Personnally i find myself alot more attentive - closing my eyes, trying to visualize whats going on up there. Other times i even find myself on the edge of my seat because the antcipation of what might about to happen is just killing me! The desire to hit F12 to releive that is immense, but when you don't do it, and succeed, its pretty satisfying.


Point of all this is..... Try turning off that external camera for at least one patrol and see how your experience changes - particuarlly if your being depth charged. I know the eye candy is hard to give up, but personnaly i think its worth it.



with nygm i just use the event camera without external best of both worlds:arrgh!:

[stabiz]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?

[azn_132]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?

Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.

[_Seth_]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?
Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.

I think he ment "Get rid of it permanently", matey.. I would also like to get totally rid of this...

[ReallyDedPoet]

I would be so happy if I could just look at my U-boat and nothing else :hmm: stop the cycling of other ships :hmm: I agree totally, I love the unknown of what surface ship you have encountered, but like always I can't help myself :shifty:

This would be nice, to have the option of cycling though ships not possible.

I have played with the external camera off, it adds to the experience big-time, but there are many times in SH3 when you are sailing around, so that is why I keep it on, to be able to take screens, interupt the boredom.

Nice thing about this game is that the settings allow for different experiences, which is probably the best thing about it:up:

[Iron Budokan]

I often trade off on patrols with external camera off/on. One patrol I have it on, the next I have it off. I often use it when I get a new sub, but later run patrols without it.

[Keelbuster]

Once you've had 5 or 10 careers, you don't need to take screencaps anymore. No External Cam is the only way to go. It makes the game way more intense. I'm never going back to external cam.

The only bother is that sometimes you miss a good sinking. You can watch it through the periscope, but often by the time it happens you're trying to get deep. It was disappointing though, seeing as on my last patrol i sunk HMS Howe, and i never got to see her go down. I didn't even hear her go down over the hydrophone. I only found out i sunk her by the listing in my patrol log. I love the sinking dynamics, and it's tought to live without seeing the those dramatic sinkings. On the other hand, I've found that sinkings look a _lot_ different when viewed through the periscope. Again, no ext. cam is the best way.

Kb

[Hartmann]

Making a wild guess here, im guessing most people have the external camera on. I mean, lets face it, we all love eye candy. External camera gives the game a cinematic feel. Seeing your own uboat (complete with that real cool tower emblem, and rust that makes it look like an old salt and war veteran) is very appealing and gratifying. What's more seeing the damage you've wrought onto your target with debris (or bodies) flying with massive explosions is REALLY gratifying.

However....
with all that goodness comes some negative's, at least in my opinion. But to summerize the negative, the external camera takes away an element of uncertaintly, suspense, and beleivablity.

For example, you have one or more sound contacts. You have no idea what they are. One quick push of the , or . keys and you instantly know. Or you could cycle views on every ship in an entire convoy and see what you have in there. The reality is, you'd never know what these sound contacts are until you pop the scope. (same goes for RWR or radar contacts too). The short of it is, the external camera gives you far far FAR more info then a real submarine captain would have had. A sub has two primary sensors really. The good ole fashined eyeball fixed on a periscope or pair of bonoculars or sound.. your hydrophones. In a situation where your submerged, the hydrophones become your eyes.

Another example is all the building and landscape. Its beleive able when viewed from the bridge, but looking at it up close, things tend to look a bit on the lame side.

other exampbles would be seeing exacly how your torpedo's hit, or the status of a target that was hit when submerged beyond periscope depth.. something you'd never be able to do in real life.

But the biggest example is that element of suspense and claustphobia. Not present to any large degree when your boat is 250 meters deep, and yet your looking at your pursuer on the surface as if bobbing around in a life boat. Imagine yourself under a depth charge attack, without the ablity to hit F12 or any other camera hotkeys. Sound plays a much bigger role, and like the captain in dasboot, you have to wonder, "What's going on up there, running away? ".

With your view confined to essentually the control room. All you have to rely on is your brains, wits, your sonar, and your gut instincts. Personnally i find myself alot more attentive - closing my eyes, trying to visualize whats going on up there. Other times i even find myself on the edge of my seat because the antcipation of what might about to happen is just killing me! The desire to hit F12 to releive that is immense, but when you don't do it, and succeed, its pretty satisfying.


Point of all this is..... Try turning off that external camera for at least one patrol and see how your experience changes - particuarlly if your being depth charged. I know the eye candy is hard to give up, but personnaly i think its worth it.

Yes . i know it , wen i played AOD and SH1 :yep:

In sh3 i tried it time ago with deph charge shake mod in u-505 mission. lol ! it was really scary, :dead: i had external camera enabled but i don´t used it because i have to see the shakes in command room, and was like if the boat was breaking in pieces .very claustrophobic and realistic.:doh:

Unfortunately External view is focus in a fixed view in the surface , could be interesting a external camera focused in the boat.

[Jimbuna]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?
Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.

I think he ment "Get rid of it permanently", matey.. I would also like to get totally rid of this...

:o WHAT!!!!....so whose gonna watch yer back in MP :lol:

[Sailor Steve]

I sometimes have it on when leaving and entering port, and then use the 'Single Missions' setup to turn it off at sea. And then sometimes I leave it on but don't use it when under attack.

I keep wanting to turn it off permanently, but I'm weak. AOD didn't have it. SHI didn't have it. Why am I so weak?:oops: :cry:

[Rykaird]

This is a huge change. Convoys in particular are really, really tough. When I used the external camera, I would just find out where the fattest target was, then position myself accordingly in the lanes. Without the camera, I have to pop up the scope and take my best shot.

What I miss the external view for most though is ship recognition. Just that simple ability to know if it is an enemy or a neutral is huge. I need to get better at the hydrophones, that's for sure.

The other single biggest change for me was getting rid of save games. I used to save four or five times during an attack approach. Run the magnetic pistol torpedoes too deep? No problem, reload the game, adjust, and try again. Now I just miss.

Like I said in an earlier post, I used to be a great Kapitan, a legend in the Kriegsmarine and Tommy's personal nightmare. Now I'm just a guy in a tin tube trying to get what I can and not get killed.

It becomes a very different war.

[_Seth_]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?
Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.
I think he ment "Get rid of it permanently", matey.. I would also like to get totally rid of this...
:o WHAT!!!!....so whose gonna watch yer back in MP :lol:

Oooops...sorry mate, didnt think of that...:lol::lol:

[Sailor Steve]

The other single biggest change for me was getting rid of save games. I used to save four or five times during an attack approach. Run the magnetic pistol torpedoes too deep? No problem, reload the game, adjust, and try again. Now I just miss.
Funny, that's the one problem I don't have. Since I don't have a real sound card I sometimes get crashes when a ship sinks, so I always save just before I fire and again just after I score a hit. In spite of that I've never been tempted to reload a game when I miss, and never been tempted to reload when I die.

Just me, I guess. Anyway, good luck in your new career life.

[Corsair]

" With your view confined to essentually the control room. All you have to rely on is your brains, wits, your sonar, and your gut instincts. Personnally i find myself alot more attentive - closing my eyes, trying to visualize whats going on up there. Other times i even find myself on the edge of my seat because the antcipation of what might about to happen is just killing me! The desire to hit F12 to releive that is immense, but when you don't do it, and succeed, its pretty satisfying."

Couldn't say it better... this is the central interest of sub games. Using an external camera, you miss this essential part which is trying to get the best possible situational awareness without seeing anything and taking decisions according to what you think is happening.:up:

PS : correction : " using an external camera during fights to see what is happening"... nothing wrong in having an external look at your sub when you're cruising along on the empty ocean...

[THE_MASK]

When i tried SH3 with external and event camera off , i never turned them back on . It is a completely diffrent game . Just try it for your next patrol and you wont believe it .:yep:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?
Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.

I think he ment "Get rid of it permanently", matey.. I would also like to get totally rid of this...

To 'get rid' of the event camera for multiplayer, at the main menu select 'options' then 'video settings'. Uncheck 'event camera' then save the changes. You'll no longer get the event camera during multiplayer.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Making a wild guess here, im guessing most people have the external camera on. I mean, lets face it, we all love eye candy. External camera gives the game a cinematic feel. Seeing your own uboat (complete with that real cool tower emblem, and rust that makes it look like an old salt and war veteran) is very appealing and gratifying. What's more seeing the damage you've wrought onto your target with debris (or bodies) flying with massive explosions is REALLY gratifying.

However....
with all that goodness comes some negative's, at least in my opinion. But to summerize the negative, the external camera takes away an element of uncertaintly, suspense, and beleivablity.

For example, you have one or more sound contacts. You have no idea what they are. One quick push of the , or . keys and you instantly know. Or you could cycle views on every ship in an entire convoy and see what you have in there. The reality is, you'd never know what these sound contacts are until you pop the scope. (same goes for RWR or radar contacts too). The short of it is, the external camera gives you far far FAR more info then a real submarine captain would have had. A sub has two primary sensors really. The good ole fashined eyeball fixed on a periscope or pair of bonoculars or sound.. your hydrophones. In a situation where your submerged, the hydrophones become your eyes.

Another example is all the building and landscape. Its beleive able when viewed from the bridge, but looking at it up close, things tend to look a bit on the lame side.

other exampbles would be seeing exacly how your torpedo's hit, or the status of a target that was hit when submerged beyond periscope depth.. something you'd never be able to do in real life.

But the biggest example is that element of suspense and claustphobia. Not present to any large degree when your boat is 250 meters deep, and yet your looking at your pursuer on the surface as if bobbing around in a life boat. Imagine yourself under a depth charge attack, without the ablity to hit F12 or any other camera hotkeys. Sound plays a much bigger role, and like the captain in dasboot, you have to wonder, "What's going on up there, running away? ".

With your view confined to essentually the control room. All you have to rely on is your brains, wits, your sonar, and your gut instincts. Personnally i find myself alot more attentive - closing my eyes, trying to visualize whats going on up there. Other times i even find myself on the edge of my seat because the antcipation of what might about to happen is just killing me! The desire to hit F12 to releive that is immense, but when you don't do it, and succeed, its pretty satisfying.


Point of all this is..... Try turning off that external camera for at least one patrol and see how your experience changes - particuarlly if your being depth charged. I know the eye candy is hard to give up, but personnaly i think its worth it.

I used to play with the external camera off, and for exactly the reasons you state. It's a lot more nerve-wracking having NO clue or idea what's overhead than it is if you 'cheat' and use the camera to look about.

Thing is . . . SHIII/GWX is a marvelous, awesome eye-candy graphics game for me. I enjoy the ability to take screenshots of things like: leaving port . . . 'riding off' into the sunset . . . close-up shots of torpedo hits and sinkings . . . depth charges raining down around me (which isn't exactly something I enjoy happening :p ) . . .

All of your negative points become moot and invalid if a player does one thing: he/she scrupulously does NOT utilize the external camera to 'cheat'. That means not using it to scope out a convoy contact at range to predetermine nationality by examining their flags, not using it to explore the convoy and spot out the fattest juiciest targets, etc.

"But to summerize the negative, the external camera takes away an element of uncertaintly, suspense, and beleivablity."

Yes, it does. But only if a player allows it to do so. The external camera is like most other tools: completely neutral and dependant upon how it is used. I, myself, have never been tempted to use it to help me out of a tight jam, or give me information that I 'realistically' would not be able to acertain and acquire. And I've not been tempted because, as much as I enjoy the 'eye-candy' aspect, I enjoy the palm-sweating, bowel-tightening, bone-chilling thrill and exhilaration of the unknown, wondering if, this time, my skill and experience isn't going to be enough to have me, my crew and my boat survive.

[High Voltage]

Two patrols ago I decided to get rid of the External and Event cameras, readying myself for total immersion; After 2 hours of ash cans falling on my head, and with my hull integrity down to 26%, i finally managed to evade the buggers. "Periscope Depth", raise my asparagus and...nothing.:nope:
Periscope destroyed during the destroyer attack. thankfully I wasn't too far from port but it was not a nice feeling to have to surface not knowing what was waiting for you topside...

So, I compromise: no event camera, but external is there in my back pocket, just in case...

[Eagle Eye]

I'm trying but its such a beutiful game and I love to look around.

[Venatore]

For those interested you can disable the < and > commands. It is pretty easy. Go to your commands_en.cfg file. Look for commands 50 and 51. Place a ; in front of the line that assigns the button.

I have been looking for this ohh for about a year and a half. Thankyou for passing this on. :up:

[Tijn]

i turned of the xternal camera a couple of month ago and although i miss the the times that i could look at my boat, it's just much more intense. Same people play with external camera and just don't cheat with it. I can't do this, i have i have it i use it. So for me it's 100%.


Grtz Tijn

[Mooncatt]

i like the external cam tbh. i have tried playing with it off but i missed the nice big explosions and got mad when i lined up a brilliant shot and couldnt take a screeny of it

[Tiny]

I would love it if the external was restricted to the exterior of the sub only. say you could go 50m away.

On my last patrol I turned it off (100% realism) and made the most excellent convoy attack ever, attacked two ships, all torps hitted their targets the exact same time!!

Quite exciting watching that watch tick over the time limit and then ...... BOOM BOOM BOOM and get the "She's going down!" message the same minute twice. :rock:

[stabiz]

Actually, I hate the event camera with a passion. Is there a way to remove it completely? When I play online my mate insist on normal difficulty, and that means event cam.

So, is it possible?
Just close it when the event cam pops up when u play online.
I think he ment "Get rid of it permanently", matey.. I would also like to get totally rid of this...
To 'get rid' of the event camera for multiplayer, at the main menu select 'options' then 'video settings'. Uncheck 'event camera' then save the changes. You'll no longer get the event camera during multiplayer.

:rotfl:Its that easy?! Thanks a bunch, mate!

[Captain Nemo]

For me the ideal solution would be to have a 3D replay viewer. With this you could have the external cams off during a patrol and replay the exiting bits in 3D and take as many screen shots as you like when the patrol has ended. Using this method it wouldn't be classed as a cheat as you would just be replaying a patrol/mission. We can all dream I suppose!

Nemo

[Heibges]

I think when you are on the surface, that the external camera is more realistic than the bridge view.

When you are on the surface, your SA should be greatly improved over looking through the periscope.

From the Bridge View you just don't get this SA due to graphical limitations of the computer. The bridge view is more like a wide angle periscope view.

Provided you keep the External Camera close to your boat, and move it no higher than bridge, than the SA is actually more realistc than the SA from the Bridge View alone.

But I'm an old school tank commander, and I always thought being out of the cupola gave you much better SA than through the Visionblocks.

[Jimbuna]

For me the ideal solution would be to have a 3D replay viewer. With this you could have the external cams off during a patrol and replay the exiting bits in 3D and take as many screen shots as you like when the patrol has ended. Using this method it wouldn't be classed as a cheat as you would just be replaying a patrol/mission. We can all dream I suppose!

Nemo

That's not a bad idea :yep:

[Castout]

I now always play at 100% realism. Manual targeting and no event and external camera. It's a total blast. Into my twelfth patrols with 190,000+ tonnage. Never cheated by reloading failures either. :arrgh!:(newest SH3Commander + harbor traffic)

But i think it's still too easy as the DD will only search and drop depth charges for a maximum of about 30 minutes(more often much less). Is this supposed to be realistic? I was convinced they(DDs) would search for hours at least.

[Heibges]

I have found that the best way to get realistic tonnage is to patrol as much as possible using Visual Sensors only.

Not using the hydrophones makes more of a difference in realistic tonnage than using Manual vs Auto Targeting.

A kaleun using Watch Crew to find targets and Auto TDC to sink them, will have more realistic tonnage than a kaleun who uses Hydrophones and Manual TDC.

Not only in SH3, but in SH2, SH, and even SS2, the hydrophones really make it too easy to locate targets.

I only do soundchecks at dawn, dusk, and in less than perfect visibility when I am at my calculated intercept point for the convoy.

I have found that patroling on the surface using Watch Crew I am unable to locate targets on 1/3 of my patrols.

This drops my average to around 10k per patrol.

In my last campaign it took me 10 patrols to get over 100k!

Also, the Uboat Commander's Handbook stresses several times the need to stay on the surface.

But for a variety to reasons, it is much easier to wrack up tonnage in all subsims by staying submerged and using the hydrophones.

So if you want to operate like a real Uboat Commander...stay on the surface!

Also, if you are interested in realism, fire fan shots at all targets. No single shots!

[Wildhawke11]

I am so surprised that most seem to use the external cam view. Honest i really thought that the majority being simulation freaks like myself, would want to experience as much as is possible to be able to feel just a little like the real crews on the subs felt. The suspense, tension and terror that the real crews faced, knowing that there lives could be ended at any moment while under an attack. To my way of thinking if you want to any way come close to this, then its a must to take the route of no external cam. I agree its each to his own, as the object of playing computer games is of course to enjoy them to the full. But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy.

[AVGWarhawk]

I am so surprised that most seem to use the external cam view. Honest i really thought that the majority being simulation freaks like myself, would want to experience as much as is possible to be able to feel just a little like the real crews on the subs felt. The suspense, tension and terror that the real crews faced, knowing that there lives could be ended at any moment while under an attack. To my way of thinking if you want to any way come close to this, then its a must to take the route of no external cam. I agree its each to his own, as the object of playing computer games is of course to enjoy them to the full. But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy.

To me, playing with out the eye candy is like going to a skin bar and not being able to look:o No fun in that!!!

[robbo180265]

I only use the external cam for the eye candy. I never use it to identify a ship, or to examine a convoy and certainly never ever to evade DD's.

I'm afraid though I like being able to watch my sub during the boring bits, sometimes from the land and sometimes from friendly ships.I also like to watch the eels going in.

I really enjoy my game like this, but to be honest there's always the chance I'll give it a go later on when I'm looking for something new to do with the game.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy.

How about if we work it so when our boat is lost we suffer a fatal attack too? Pretty realistic there I would think.

I'm not 'forfeiting' a damn thing by having my external camera enabled, let alone getting as close to 'reality' as possible. Part of the allure of the game, for me, is the impressive (thanks in no small part to our modding community) graphics, while the allure of the simulation is to play within the boundary of the realism that the game permits. They are separate entities to me: game versus simulation, and I keep them separate when appropriate and called for.

[High Voltage]

But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy.
How about if we work it so when our boat is lost we suffer a fatal attack too? Pretty realistic there I would think.

I'm not 'forfeiting' a damn thing by having my external camera enabled, let alone getting as close to 'reality' as possible. Part of the allure of the game, for me, is the impressive (thanks in no small part to our modding community) graphics, while the allure of the simulation is to play within the boundary of the realism that the game permits. They are separate entities to me: game versus simulation, and I keep them separate when appropriate and called for.

Amen Brother, some people just can't get over the fact that at the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of goobers sitting in front of a screen pretending to be on a boat..;);)

[Wildhawke11]

But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy.

How about if we work it so when our boat is lost we suffer a fatal attack too? Pretty realistic there I would think.

I'm not 'forfeiting' a damn thing by having my external camera enabled, let alone getting as close to 'reality' as possible. Part of the allure of the game, for me, is the impressive (thanks in no small part to our modding community) graphics, while the allure of the simulation is to play within the boundary of the realism that the game permits. They are separate entities to me: game versus simulation, and I keep them separate when appropriate and called for.




Hold on
Dont get your knickers in a twist. I dont recall asking anyone to forfeit anything. I said i was surprised thats all. I agree 100% with you in fact *Each to his Own* I am in fact a tester on a pure not arcade boxing simulation. I love the fight game spent many years in one way or another connected to the sport. But you might hate its all about choice i agree.
Enjoy it your way i dont have a problem with that
Danny

[Venatore]

For those interested you can disable the < and > commands. It is pretty easy. Go to your commands_en.cfg file. Look for commands 50 and 51. Place a ; in front of the line that assigns the button.
I have been looking for this ohh for about a year and a half. Thankyou for passing this on. :up:

I find to be a good blend between not scanning all the ships involved in the area of operations and drooling over your U-boat.

[Jimbuna]

I'm not 'forfeiting' a damn thing by having my external camera enabled, let alone getting as close to 'reality' as possible. Part of the allure of the game, for me, is the impressive (thanks in no small part to our modding community) graphics, while the allure of the simulation is to play within the boundary of the realism that the game permits. They are separate entities to me: game versus simulation, and I keep them separate when appropriate and called for.

Very well put Albrecht :yep:

Each to their own :arrgh!:

[Wildhawke11]

Jim
It might have been nicer if you had posted the gentlemen in question's full post, instead of leaving out shall we say the sarcastic remark he made at the start of his post. To me that's a bit like going into court and the prosecution leaves out a crucial part of a witnesses statement to make the defence look bad to the jury. I do feel somehow my original posting was taken the wrong way by some and maybe they felt i was putting them down somewhat i give you my word Jim that truly was not my intention.
Have A Good Day Jim

[Kumando]

I have found that the best way to get realistic tonnage is to patrol as much as possible using Visual Sensors only.

Not using the hydrophones makes more of a difference in realistic tonnage than using Manual vs Auto Targeting.

A kaleun using Watch Crew to find targets and Auto TDC to sink them, will have more realistic tonnage than a kaleun who uses Hydrophones and Manual TDC.

Not only in SH3, but in SH2, SH, and even SS2, the hydrophones really make it too easy to locate targets.

I only do soundchecks at dawn, dusk, and in less than perfect visibility when I am at my calculated intercept point for the convoy.

I have found that patroling on the surface using Watch Crew I am unable to locate targets on 1/3 of my patrols.

This drops my average to around 10k per patrol.

In my last campaign it took me 10 patrols to get over 100k!

Also, the Uboat Commander's Handbook stresses several times the need to stay on the surface.

But for a variety to reasons, it is much easier to wrack up tonnage in all subsims by staying submerged and using the hydrophones.

So if you want to operate like a real Uboat Commander...stay on the surface!

Also, if you are interested in realism, fire fan shots at all targets. No single shots!

I dont agree with the part that using auto targeting will allow you to sink less targets, because the time you take in manual to do the calculations, could cause you to miss due to course changings etc and with auto targeting you point the scope and you have 100% precise data in a microsecond, and if you played with no sub icon, nor map contact updates, and manual targeting like myself you would miss lots of shots i guarantee you;) . Auto targeting is just to easy and lame.

[Jimbuna]

Jim
It might have been nicer if you had posted the gentlemen in question's full post, instead of leaving out shall we say the sarcastic remark he made at the start of his post. To me that's a bit like going into court and the prosecution leaves out a crucial part of a witnesses statement to make the defence look bad to the jury. I do feel somehow my original posting was taken the wrong way by some and maybe they felt i was putting them down somewhat i give you my word Jim that truly was not my intention.
Have A Good Day Jim


One point at a time.....My interpretation/understanding/belief/perception of the gentlemans post was not that it was meant to be sarcastic. :nope:
Secondly...Similarly I held the same belief of yours which was posted earlier. :yep:

One of the fundamental reasons for this forum is that people are allowed to share in open and honest debate and also share their individual beliefs on a wide and diverse number of topics. It is inevitable that there will be times when people will disagree with one anothers viewpoints. I see no harm in that as long as an acceptable level of respect is given by all participants/contributors. :yep:

Unless I'm missing something that is totally obvious to everyone else but me :hmm: , it is my belief/understanding that opinions already stated within this thread are well within the boundaries as stated in my previous paragraph. :yep:

In response to your reference to a courtroom scenario...this I find extremely interesting when I consider how large a percentage of my working environment is spent in just such an environment. :hmm:

My personal/proffessional experiences in working life quickly taught me that the instant a collective of people commence any form of spoken or written interraction, there is a high degree of probability that the old chestnut 'perceptual distortion' will play an active part :damn: . IMHO that is precisely what is happening here. :yep:

I stand by the comment in my earlier post......."each to their own"!!! :yep:

I am nobodies judge and jury....in fact, I happen to believe this is quite an interesting thread :yep:

Now lets everyone have a beer :()1: and.....SINK EM ALL!! :arrgh!:

[Wildhawke11]

Thanks for the response Jim.
Yes, i do believe its very easy at times to misunderstand a persons meaning in a post. Maybe after spending some considerable time in the army. This old brain of mine suffers a little from shell shock at times :D So i guess i am Sorry guys if in any way you thought i was putting you down. I will leave you in peace now.
Again Sorry
Danny

PS On a last note --- You guys i might add have made the standard game which i felt was good into one i now regard as a classic.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for the response Jim.
Yes, i do believe its very easy at times to misunderstand a persons meaning in a post. Maybe after spending some considerable time in the army. This old brain of mine suffers a little from shell shock at times :D So i guess i am Sorry guys if in any way you thought i was putting you down. I will leave you in peace now.
Again Sorry
Danny

PS On a last note --- You guys i might add have made the standard game which i felt was good into one i now regard as a classic.

Good kaleun...salute :arrgh!: Oh!....I forgot to mention earlier....it's your round :lol:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Thanks for the response Jim.
Yes, i do believe its very easy at times to misunderstand a persons meaning in a post. Maybe after spending some considerable time in the army. This old brain of mine suffers a little from shell shock at times :D So i guess i am Sorry guys if in any way you thought i was putting you down. I will leave you in peace now.
Again Sorry
Danny

PS On a last note --- You guys i might add have made the standard game which i felt was good into one i now regard as a classic.

I did interpret your original post: I am so surprised that most seem to use the external cam view. Honest i really thought that the majority being simulation freaks like myself, would want to experience as much as is possible to be able to feel just a little like the real crews on the subs felt. . . . But as i said my sub friends i am quite shocked, and more then surprised to find that it seems most of you seem to forfeit getting as close to reality as is possible just to view eye candy. as being negative and, yes, as a 'put-down'. Especially in light of the degree with which I attempt to keep things as realistic as possible. This includes selecting impact versus magnetic pistol settings based upon historical usage, loading eletric over steam once electrics become available, etc.

I could have, and should have, expressed my opinion and reaction to your post better than I did. For that I apologize.

[Heibges]

Sorry for not being more clear.

I did not mean to comment on Auto vs Manual TDC.

I strictly meant to comment on Hydrophones vs Watch Crew, and the effect on getting historical tonnages and ship sinkings.

My point was that a player using Hydrophones and Manual TDC will sink more tonnage and more ships, than a player using Watch Crew and Auto TDC.

I agree that Manual TDC is much more rewarding than Auto TDC.

But for "historical" results, the largest determining factor is whether you find targets using the hydrophones or find targets using the watch crew.

[Ducimus]

Well, im sorry this turned into a heated debate.

As for camera mods, remarking out the next and previous cam (< , > ) is something ive done for awhile now.My biggest problem with just the F12 cam enabled is that you can see directly above you while being depth charged - which kinda spoils the moment i think.

One thing i've always wished i could figure out, is how to mod the next/previous cam so it ONLY shows your uboat, and nothing else. Then i'd remark out the F12 freecam, that way all you could see is the exterior of your uboat, and you couldnt see directly above you on the surface while being depth charged. That i think would be PERFECT. Unfortunatly ive never been able to figure out how to stop the cam from cycling to another target other then your uboat.

[Corsair]

There's an easy way: just press the key once to have a boat view on your sub, then revert to deck or command room...:D

[Ducimus]

Problem is temptation makes for want to push that button some more. Idea being to remove the temptation. When it comes to the external camera, i'm a little short in willpower.

[CaptainAsh]

I started the tutorial using the external view and turned it off rapidely because i knew I was not going to be able to not use it to cheat the simulation part...
Came to the same conclusion about event cam in my first 2 or 3 patrols...
So it s full realistic now :)

About the hydrophone/watch crew point, I don t get it. But playing auto TDC is just pointless...

I m playing 100% realistic, using hydrophone maybe every 90 minutes in hunting ground, doing manual targeting and though, it s often happening I don t come home with more than 20K. I think a big part of the overall heavy tonnage average is more that a lot of kaleun don t care about the patrol area. They just head for the place they know they gonna get the big fish. Myself I m always trying to respect designated hunting ground. And sometimes it suks badly:damn:

[CptGrayWolf]

Unfortunatly it is no big mystery when the escorts disengage. Just look at the crew animation. Major flaw in SHIII. :nope:
Turning off external camera and not knowing when or if the escorts disengage would be great.

[THE_MASK]

When i tried SH3 with external and event camera off , i never turned them back on . It is a completely diffrent game . Just try it for your next patrol and you wont believe it .:yep:

This may change with SH4

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/9323/sh4sf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ducimus]

Good greif, you have a point there.

[Corsair]

I guess we all used external cam when we started playing SH3 or using one of the mods for the WOW! effect on the first days. Once this is done and you want to get on to serious playing you turn it off... Will probably be the same with SH4 for those who will play it.:D

[Kumando]

Unfortunatly it is no big mystery when the escorts disengage. Just look at the crew animation. Major flaw in SHIII. :nope:
Turning off external camera and not knowing when or if the escorts disengage would be great.

Thats not quite like it, sometimes you are being hunted and the crew doesnt look agitated so without the external camera you dont really know when they stoped hunting you.

[CptGrayWolf]

Unfortunatly it is no big mystery when the escorts disengage. Just look at the crew animation. Major flaw in SHIII. :nope:
Turning off external camera and not knowing when or if the escorts disengage would be great.

Thats not quite like it, sometimes you are being hunted and the crew doesnt look agitated so without the external camera you dont really know when they stoped hunting you.

Ja that's true, but I would still prefer to have no indications whatsoever.

[Heibges]

By using the watch crew, and patrolling on the surface as per the Uboat Commanders Handbook, it is possible to many times (approximately 1/3 of the time) to return to port with 0 tonnage.

Doing overly frequent soundchecks gives you a guarantee of 20k per patrol which is something real kaleuns didn't have. 20k per patrol is a lot. It is more realistic than 50k per patrol. But far less realistic than the 10k per patrol you will get if you use historic uboat tactics.

By using the real tactics described in the Uboat Commanders Handbook and Doenit'z memoirs, it usually takes me about 10 patrols to reach 100k.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

By using the watch crew, and patrolling on the surface as per the Uboat Commanders Handbook, it is possible to many times (approximately 1/3 of the time) to return to port with 0 tonnage.

Doing overly frequent soundchecks gives you a guarantee of 20k per patrol which is something real kaleuns didn't have. 20k per patrol is a lot. It is more realistic than 50k per patrol. But far less realistic than the 10k per patrol you will get if you use historic uboat tactics.

By using the real tactics described in the Uboat Commanders Handbook and Doenit'z memoirs, it usually takes me about 10 patrols to reach 100k.

I'm afraid I can't quite agree with that. I never (intentionally) use the hydrophones to make initial detections. I'm on the surface, and visually look for contacts. There have been times (particularly after mid '42) where I'm traveling submerged during the day (so I don't get my heinie shot off) when I've gotten, and pursued, a sound contact. But almost always I'm prowling using the Mark Ein eyeball for detections.

I also try (during the early years) to do surface attacks as well, rather than submerged ambushes, as I understand that is historically accurate, and my tonnage does not seem to suffer from doing that, or patrolling the surface.

[TarJak]

IIRC you can turn it off using SH3commander. Otherwise there must be an option to do it. I know I don't have it now but I can't remember where and how I turned it off it was so long ago.

[Sailor Steve]

IIRC you can turn it off using SH3commander. Otherwise there must be an option to do it. I know I don't have it now but I can't remember where and how I turned it off it was so long ago.
Go to any Single Mission. Before the mission starts the options page comes up, and anything you change will be changed for the campaign mode as well.