Will convoys zig zag?

[tedhealy]

Searching for zig zag won't return results, so I aplogize in advance if this is known or been asked a million times before, but will Japanese convoys zig zag on a base course? Or dare I say it, constant helm a course?

[bookworm_020]

In most of the reading on convoy attack by U.S. Subs, they seem to acted independant of each other under attack. More than once there were collisions due to ships paths crossing each other. Many had be armed with depth charges to drive off subs (even if they had no way of guessing when the sub was). A couple of subs got a good shaking from there effots.

[geetrue]

Searching for zig zag won't return results, so I aplogize in advance if this is known or been asked a million times before, but will Japanese convoys zig zag on a base course? Or dare I say it, constant helm a course?

You mean the convoy on the way to Pearl Harbor in the winter of 1941 or the convoy on the way back from Pearl in 1941?

I'm not sure, but a lot of Japanese and their allies cargo/freighters hugged the coast line to stay away from American Submarines near the end of the war and like Bookworm said, most of them were armed and ready to duke it out with any captain foolish enough to attack them on the surface.

[tedhealy]

I'm talking about Japanese marus. Escorted Japanese shipping in a small convoy zig zagged on a base course as an asw effort. Sometimes they even constatntly adjusted their course by a few degrees to make wide sweeps off a base course to keep subs from having an easy time setting up torpedo shots.

Will this be in shIV? Or will it be like sh3 where every merchant ship out there plods straight along unaware and uncaring of the submarine threat?

[Morts]

errm convoys DO zigzag in SH3
i dont know about stock because i never attacked a convoy in stock but in GWX they sure do

[tedhealy]

errm convoys DO zigzag in SH3
i dont know about stock because i never attacked a convoy in stock but in GWX they sure do
I never downloaded GWX :oops:

But if the devs didn't do it in sh3, will they do it in sh4? I'm guessing even if they don't, if it was moddable into sh3 it will be moddable into sh4 then, so I'm a happy camper :D

[bookworm_020]

They do zig zag in stock SH3. The Japanese did create convoys from around 1944 onward, but there was little orgaization and few escorts untill it was too late. Earlier convoys were just pairs of ships steaming together for mutual protection.

[Onkel Neal]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, after intense discussions with the dev team, they admit that the convoys will zig, but there is no code to zag :(

[Morts]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[hyperion2206]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, after intense discussions with the dev team, they admit that the convoys will zig, but there is no code to zag :(

So the ships will alter their course but won't get back to their original course or what does that mean?:doh::oops:

[nattydread]

lol. I think military convoys were a tad bit more cohesive, but still, stragglers seem to be common place in the convoys

[Torplexed]

Depends on whether the Japanes like to roll their own...depth charges that is. ;)

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/68/041_24_059_a.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, after intense discussions with the dev team, they admit that the convoys will zig, but there is no code to zag :(

So the ships will alter their course but won't get back to their original course or what does that mean?:doh::oops:

Well, of course they can get back to their original course! They will merely have to execute eight regulation zigs, each zig being 45 degrees, to return to their previous heading. Are you sure you passed basic training, sailor? :ping:

[tedhealy]

They do zig zag in stock SH3. The Japanese did create convoys from around 1944 onward, but there was little orgaization and few escorts untill it was too late. Earlier convoys were just pairs of ships steaming together for mutual protection.

I'm reading James Calvert's book, Silent Running, about his time aboard the USS Jack as the TDC operator and he writes about zig zagging Japanese merchants. His first patrol was in mid 43. Perhaps he only encountered the better Japanese merchantmen and navymen, but nearly every encounter involved them having to plot their prey's base course off a zig zag and try to time their closing on the enemy so as to be in the right position after a course change.

When I say convoys describing the Japanese system, I'm considering groups of as little as 4 or 5 ships considering they never really put together huge merchant convoys. Maybe I'm too deep into Calvert's book, but that's the way he describes these groups of 2 or 3 merchantmen and a couple minesweepers or DE's as escorts, as convoys.

But back to the original point, is this in sh4 or not? If it was in sh3, I never saw it. Ships went in straight lines between waypoints and you never had to be wary of a target zigging out of your fiiring position at the last moment. Just get out in front of their course drawn out in a straight line and you'll be fine.

[JSF]

They do zig zag in stock SH3. The Japanese did create convoys from around 1944 onward, but there was little orgaization and few escorts untill it was too late. Earlier convoys were just pairs of ships steaming together for mutual protection.

I'm reading James Calvert's book, Silent Running, about his time aboard the USS Jack as the TDC operator and he writes about zig zagging Japanese merchants.

Brother James also writes about a little zig zagging of his own when he breaks down in quasi true confession time about an affair he has with a young lady from the islands. While he doesn't come out-right and admit it.....take it from an old salt...he did the dirty deed......:up:....I wonder if he was looking for absolution all these years later. Maybe he should have run it past the chaplain first. Couple of hail Mary's and a little extra in offering plate....should have filled the bill.

[hyperion2206]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, after intense discussions with the dev team, they admit that the convoys will zig, but there is no code to zag :(
So the ships will alter their course but won't get back to their original course or what does that mean?:doh::oops:
Well, of course they can get back to their original course! They will merely have to execute eight regulation zigs, each zig being 45 degrees, to return to their previous heading. Are you sure you passed basic training, sailor? :ping:

Oh come on! It was 2.30 am over here when I posted my question, my brain was half a sleep.:oops::p

[Onkel Neal]

Heh heh, gotcha :D

[tedhealy]

dirty deed......:up:....I wonder if he was looking for absolution all these years later. Maybe he should have run it past the chaplain first. Couple of hail Mary's and a little extra in offering plate....should have filled the bill.

Yeah, his little beer trade for "time at the country club" worked out pretty well for him :up:

[rocco]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, after intense discussions with the dev team, they admit that the convoys will zig, but there is no code to zag :(

Oh, that's it, I'm not buying this game if convoys don't both zig AND zag.
What a waste of money. ;)

Rocco

PS I'm being sarcastic, I've seen so many people complain that this or that
wasn't implemented and how they don't know if they want to buy the game
now.

[Sailor Steve]

Well, now I'm offended. All my extensive research indicates that convoys zagged much more than they zigged. If they can't get that one little detail right, why should I bother playing it?

[AJ!]

:rotfl:

[Threadfin]

There is no zig zagging in SH3, only weaving. True zig-zag is radical course changes on irregular intervals. This is one of the many reasons why it is too easy to conduct torpedo attacks in SH3.

If SH4 has true zig zagging of some (unalerted) merchant traffic I will be very pleased.

[tedhealy]

There is no zig zagging in SH3, only weaving. True zig-zag is radical course changes on irregular intervals. This is one of the many reasons why it is too easy to conduct torpedo attacks in SH3.

If SH4 has true zig zagging of some (unalerted) merchant traffic I will be very pleased.

Yeah, I'll be a happy camper then too. That's why I slowly stopped playing sh3. There was very little required for a hunt. Just get a simple course and zoom out ahead. No nervous glances at the watch wondering isn't it about time for their course change? Can I get my shot off before they zig?

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Well convoys could zig-zag but that would bean alot of waypoints(ie changeing the basecourse for the ship/s to folow).

If unlalerted merchants and convoys do zig-zag in SHIV Id be oh so happy.

[peterloo]

The shippings seems to be less 'smart' than those in SH3 if they only know how to 'zig' but not 'zag' :down:

Hope the 600 kg DC will compensate for that :nope:

[_Seth_]

Interesting discussion, mates...I believe the only problem was when, lets say, the first ships (row) in the convoy zigged. Then, if the second row zagged, the third would have to zigg, just like the first were zigging. Then, if this movement continued, the rows 1-3-5-7-9 and so on would zigg, and the rows 2-4-6-8 and so on would zagg. But sometimes the second row was "late on the trigger", and started zigging like row number one. Then row number three would believe that the row nr. 2 was zagging, and they started to zigg. This would lead row 4-6-8 to believe that they should also zagg, unless they watched row number two, who was zigging because they thought row number one was zagging, or zigging if they were slow in their heads. This led rows number 5 & 7 to zagg (Row 9 didnt notice, since the skipper was at the toilet at the moment) or zigg, depending on row 1 & 3. If this didnt work out, they all turned back home.

Yours faithfully
Ensign Parker

[Sailor Steve]

This is what comes from letting ensigns teach. In fact, this is what comes from letting ensigns out of their cages.

[NEON DEON]

A submariner once remarked about zig zagging:

"For every unfortunate Zig there was an equally fortunate Zag.":D

Or something like that. I have forgotten who said it tho.:hmm:

[tedhealy]

Well convoys could zig-zag but that would bean alot of waypoints(ie changeing the basecourse for the ship/s to folow).

If unlalerted merchants and convoys do zig-zag in SHIV Id be oh so happy.

I don't think it would be that hard to program (coming from one that gave up programming). You have your base course of waypoints and you have a routine that gets applied to a certain % of ships, maybe based on their skill level, where they proceed along the base course +/- x degrees every y minutes. It couldn't be all that hard considering it was in Silent Service and I thought the first Silent Hunter had it too.

[Sailor Steve]

All the major supermods since RUB have had convoys zig-zagging, by the simple expedient of setting up the waypoints that way in the RND. SH4 will be just as easy to do.

What I liked about SH1 was the fact that frightened ships didn't zig-zag; they turned and kept turning in a desparate attempt to keep the stern pointed at your sub. If you started to overtake them they would turn away again.

[heartc]

SHI was the bomb. I still play it these days on dosbox. AOD might have been more popular, but in my opinion with all things considered SHI was actually better, the biggest advantage being to allow for manual targetting. Only the radio traffic and occasional Wolfpack action of AOD was missing.