Does slowing down improve ship spottings?

[kanolsen]

I play GWX. I usually play with 1024x speed when travelling to and from assigned grid.
I usually stumble upon a ship or two on the way. I think I have read somewhere that you get often ship spottings if you reduce the speed setting. Last night I tried to slow it to 128x and I spotted one ship. (I know this isn't empirically solid evidence..)

I also tried to go to 25m and hydrophone often but so far I have never detected a ship this way that hasn't already been sighted by the crew beforehand.

Is it just a myth that the sightings improve by lowering speed. You developers probably know the answer to this one...

Thanks in advance
Kanolsen

[danlisa]

Short answer = yes

You miss so much at 1024 esp. aircraft.

128 is your best best, not too fast, not too slow.

Also make stops for hydrophone readings.

Just bear in mind that any TC reduces the chances of your watch crew spotting any contact.

[Sailor Steve]

Yes. Very high time compression reduced the chance of ship and especially plane spottings. Apparently the program checks at certain time intervals, and not constantly. This makes it possible for targets to slip "between the cracks".

[codmander]

1X RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

[Brag]

Frequent diving to listen will improve your ship contacts. In my present patrol I found 4 out of 5 ships via hydrophone. Sometimes I'll sit for days submerged, moving at 1 knot and surface only to refresh the atmosphere. In a good part of the ocean this tactic works well.

[Morts]

1X RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

you are........INSANE:rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

1X RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

Must be a fisherman or something;):rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:I certainly wish I had to the time to play 1X!!!!!

[codmander]

arr shiver me timbers
http://home.comcast.net/~codmander ------------ tuna soona:cool:

[AVGWarhawk]

I had seen your webpage before that is how I had known you do that for a living:rotfl::rotfl:

[codmander]

well reserve your spot for tuna :D i garentee we catch a fish bigger than you mid late june early july ish:cool:

[Heibges]

Totally false.

In endless travels across the Bay of Biscay have never seen any difference playing at any time compression.

Countless times at X1024 or x512 was attacked by aircraft 1 to 10 minutes after I surfaced for nearly 2 days. My batteries were nearly fully depleted by the time I reached the Atlantic.

Playing at x1 you will notice that depending on the visibility, enemy ships will move by you without spotting you at very close range. At night in medium fog, with 11ms winds I have had an Allied Escort cross my bow at 450m and I just sat there and watched.

Also playing at x1 you will notice that aircraft do not always attack you.

But also, there are times you just see nothing the whole patrol.

If you are at time compression, and you are not spotted, you will TC through the encounter though.

[Iron Budokan]

Yes, you can miss a ton (literally) at high TC. I just finished a 1x patrol to the western approaches from Kiel in '39. I was empty of torps before I never made it to my patrol zone. Now you don't have to do 1x, but if you slow down you will have more contacts...that's a guarantee.

[mookiemookie]

Totally false.

In endless travels across the Bay of Biscay have never seen any difference playing at any time compression.


Not totally false. As danlisa and Sailor Steve said, the game checks at intervals as to what is around you. This isn't subjective and based on observations, it's pure game mechanics. See this post for the full explanation: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=371010&postcount=6

[fredbass]

The thing that worries me the most with using TC higher than 256 are the times when the game doesn't notice the enemy until they're right on top of you. Lower TC will give you some extra distance normally. :up:

[Corsair]

I play GWX. I usually play with 1024x speed when travelling to and from assigned grid.
I usually stumble upon a ship or two on the way. I think I have read somewhere that you get often ship spottings if you reduce the speed setting. Last night I tried to slow it to 128x and I spotted one ship. (I know this isn't empirically solid evidence..)

I also tried to go to 25m and hydrophone often but so far I have never detected a ship this way that hasn't already been sighted by the crew beforehand.

Is it just a myth that the sightings improve by lowering speed. You developers probably know the answer to this one...

Thanks in advance
Kanolsen

When you use hydrophone, go around 20m deep, stop engines and use good hearphones. This is how I find a good 2/3 of my targets... even experienced, sonarman misses a lot.
When I am in a target zone, I usually do it every 3 hours.

[Heibges]

Totally false.

In endless travels across the Bay of Biscay have never seen any difference playing at any time compression.


Not totally false. As danlisa and Sailor Steve said, the game checks at intervals as to what is around you. This isn't subjective and based on observations, it's pure game mechanics. See this post for the full explanation: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=371010&postcount=6

And you believed that.

The Dev's said it would be totally stupid for them to make the TC operate like that.

[High Voltage]

Your link makes the most sense to me Mookiemookie. I fail to see how my Commodore 64 could ever keep up with all the calculations required otherwise!;)

[mookiemookie]

And you believed that.

The Dev's said it would be totally stupid for them to make the TC operate like that.
Of course I believed that. Why wouldn't I? You make it sound as if it's ridiculous to think that's an accurate description of what's going on.

Where did the developers say any differently? I'd like to read that.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

And you believed that.

The Dev's said it would be totally stupid for them to make the TC operate like that.
Of course I believed that. Why wouldn't I? You make it sound as if it's ridiculous to think that's an accurate description of what's going on.

Where did the developers say any differently? I'd like to read that.
Me too.

Whole my experience (for example almost ramming a DD when going fast on 4096 TC without being noticed about her presence) tells me the mookiemookie's link says true.

[RawRecruit]

This weekend I had time to try a patrol at lower TC settings. All my previous patrols I've used TCs of 1024 and above to reach my grid and any ship encounters have been from map contacts which I've chased down. I've almost never been attacked by aircraft.

So I start out from Kiel and run across the North Sea at high TC until I start to get close to the Orkneys and Norway. From here on in I run at no greater than 256 round the north of the UK and onto my grid over Rockall Bank (thanks for that BdU! :down: ). On my way round I am attacked countless times by aircraft!! The trip becomes a constant surface-dive-surface-dive until I'm out of the range of air cover. So, from my personal experience, I can vouch that running at lower TC makes a huge difference in the incidence of air attack.

[Morts]

try doing a 256 TC patrol in 1945 around the coast of england :rotfl: :rotfl:

[danlisa]

In any debate there needs to be evidence for both sides of the argument.

We have old and new posts/findings to support the claim that TC will reduce ship/aircraft sightings/encounters.

Therefore we must take this to be the case as there has been no hard evidence that this is not true.

However, a thought to leave you with....

Would running around at high TC in SH3 Stock be the same as High TC in a supermod?

IIRC Stock SH3's aircraft would jump on you in force (i.e 10 - 20) at a time & were very easy to shoot down.

Would the high volumes of aircraft increase the chances of seeing/receiving aircraft reports during TC.

The amount of aircraft and the easyness at which they could be shot down was thought to be unrealistic and as such the Air Power Mod was born. This mod, which is evident in all major mods in some variation, aimed to reduce the amount of aircraft attacking you as well as making them harder to fight against.

With the advent of the Air Power Mod could the reduced number of aircraft effect the chances of dropping out of TC?

The crux of this discussion comes down to a simple question.(depending on the whether the above is true) - Do we want a realistic simulation or an arcade shooter?

Note - I have used aircraft as example it's easier.;)

[Morts]

Danlisa
i have no clue of what you have just written means:rotfl:
i think my brain is still sleeping

[DaMaGe007]

Well I havent noticed much differentce due to time compression, but what about speed of the sub...

IF you travel at ahead flank, or ahead slow is there more or less sightings ?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Well I havent noticed much differentce due to time compression, but what about speed of the sub...

IF you travel at ahead flank, or ahead slow is there more or less sightings ?
The faster you go, the bigger area you patrol in a given time. If you had enough speed, you could even patrol whole the Bay of Biscay or even whole the Atlantic. :) In my opinion speed affects number of contacts in the way that you patrol bigger part of the see and are more likely to spot something.

[Corsair]

There is a limit...
Once you go faster than the optimal speed regarding fuel consumption, you will patrol a bigger area in a given time, but a smaller area overall.;)

[DaMaGe007]

Thats an interesting thought Abd Von Mumit

I havent actually tried it to see for myself, but I was thinking traveling slower would have more ships crossing your path instead of you zipping through the gaps.

kinda like riding a bike across a freeway, too slow and you get hit, fast and lucky enough you make it across through the gaps. (Not the perfect analogy, just to paint the picture clearer)

[Corsair]

For me the best tool for finding ships is the hydrophone with my personal ears behind (amazing how many contacts even experienced crew will miss) around 20m deep and all engines stopped. I usually do it every 3 hours in areas where traffic is likely to be. I reckon this is how I find 2/3 of my targets.

[mookiemookie]

Thats an interesting thought Abd Von Mumit

I havent actually tried it to see for myself, but I was thinking traveling slower would have more ships crossing your path instead of you zipping through the gaps.

kinda like riding a bike across a freeway, too slow and you get hit, fast and lucky enough you make it across through the gaps. (Not the perfect analogy, just to paint the picture clearer)

One of the NYGM guys did an analysis of the optimal speed to patrol at. You can read that here: http://files.filefront.com/Patrol_Grid_Analysispdf/;6027715;;/fileinfo.html

[DaMaGe007]

Thanks

[Kumando]

I think 128x TC is a good balanced way of not getting bored and not to miss much events in the game.

[fredbass]

For me the best tool for finding ships is the hydrophone with my personal ears behind (amazing how many contacts even experienced crew will miss) around 20m deep and all engines stopped. I usually do it every 3 hours in areas where traffic is likely to be. I reckon this is how I find 2/3 of my targets.

Absolutely.

If all you do is stay on the surface, you will end up missing tons of ships, regardless of your TC. My strategy, depending on date, location and time of day, is to dive as soon as batteries are charged. Run for a while, surface until batteries ok and repeat.

And turn your hydrophone volume on high. The game default is on low which I believe lowers your chance to detect quite a lot.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

And turn your hydrophone volume on high. The game default is on low which I believe lowers your chance to detect quite a lot.
How can one do it? In my settings, AFAIR, it's set to '0 db', which is maximum (so the defaults seems not to be low). :hmm: Any way to volume it up in the txt files?

[dean_acheson]

Do you mean the actual manual settings on the machine? Does it stay there when the computer takes back over the station?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Do you mean the actual manual settings on the machine? Does it stay there when the computer takes back over the station?
In my game I've never managed to change the hydrophone volume settings. The 'trigger' seems to be there fo immersion. Is it like that, or I do something wrong?

[fredbass]

When you man the hydrophone yourself, you'll see a little volume dial on the right. You can raise and lower the volume by clicking the upper or lower half (of course you are doing this while submerged or you won't hear any difference). If you have the volume on your computer high enough, you should be able to hear a slight difference most of the time.

[robbo180265]

That's got me worried too:o .
Didn't know a thing about a volume control.

But then there's so much that that rubbish manual left out, and I've found out in this forum.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

When you man the hydrophone yourself, you'll see a little volume dial on the right. You can raise and lower the volume by clicking the upper or lower half (of course you are doing this while submerged or you won't hear any difference). If you have the volume on your computer high enough, you should be able to hear a slight difference most of the time.
Tried hard. Seems totally unmovable. :shifty: Can it be a bug in my installation? I don't want to believe I'm such stupid... :/

[fredbass]

When you man the hydrophone yourself, you'll see a little volume dial on the right. You can raise and lower the volume by clicking the upper or lower half (of course you are doing this while submerged or you won't hear any difference). If you have the volume on your computer high enough, you should be able to hear a slight difference most of the time.
Tried hard. Seems totally unmovable. :shifty: Can it be a bug in my installation? I don't want to believe I'm such stupid... :/

You don't move anything. You'll just hear a slight difference in sound as you change from one to the other. Click near the top of the dial a few times, just to make sure.

[Archive1]

I believe I saw a statistical analysis done by someone involved with NYGM that established that 256 TC was the highest one should go for the best merchant contact frequency when patrolling a given grid. I assume that might be true for traversing space to get to assigned grid.

[Rykaird]

When you man the hydrophone yourself, you'll see a little volume dial on the right. You can raise and lower the volume by clicking the upper or lower half (of course you are doing this while submerged or you won't hear any difference). If you have the volume on your computer high enough, you should be able to hear a slight difference most of the time.
Tried hard. Seems totally unmovable. :shifty: Can it be a bug in my installation? I don't want to believe I'm such stupid... :/

You don't move anything. You'll just hear a slight difference in sound as you change from one to the other. Click near the top of the dial a few times, just to make sure.

What fooled me is that it's a knob, so I thought you turned it. As far as I can tell, it's really more like a toggle switch - high or low - and to get the toggle to high, I just click on the upper half of the knob.

[kanolsen]

Well I havent noticed much differentce due to time compression, but what about speed of the sub...

IF you travel at ahead flank, or ahead slow is there more or less sightings ?

If you go really slow, and speed up TC, would it be the same as going full speed at lower TC?
I would assume your men would be able to see the same number of ships in the same area covered, but I don't know.

No matter how fast/slow or how high/low TC I have, I seldom see any ship anyway. after several hours realtime looking at navmap, I usuall go to sleep without anything happening.


Kanolsen

[Corsair]

I believe I saw a statistical analysis done by someone involved with NYGM that established that 256 TC was the highest one should go for the best merchant contact frequency when patrolling a given grid. I assume that might be true for traversing space to get to assigned grid.

This is probably why the standard max TC setting in NYGM is 256.

[3Jane]

x128 is fine for general movement I find, however I keep down to x64 when tracking down a map contact. x128 will land you just a little too close to a convoy and risk being sighted in clear calm conditions. It can also limit your strategic options as to how to attack, unles you are preepared to spend the time repossitioning the boat for a better aproach. On my last outing from Wilhelmshaven before I was transfered to Lorient, I encountered aircraft 31 times between Lerwick and my patrol grid DJ15. I decided going back through the chanel would be the quieter option. I tried my chanel hopping aproach of using French ports full of German destroyers as extra anti-aircraft cover during daylight. Starting with Cherbourg, then on to the rest in the line. It seemed to work :p

Entering Cherbourg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3412/calaissheltermy0.png

[finchOU]

When you man the hydrophone yourself, you'll see a little volume dial on the right. You can raise and lower the volume by clicking the upper or lower half (of course you are doing this while submerged or you won't hear any difference). If you have the volume on your computer high enough, you should be able to hear a slight difference most of the time.
Tried hard. Seems totally unmovable. :shifty: Can it be a bug in my installation? I don't want to believe I'm such stupid... :/

You don't move anything. You'll just hear a slight difference in sound as you change from one to the other. Click near the top of the dial a few times, just to make sure.

What fooled me is that it's a knob, so I thought you turned it. As far as I can tell, it's really more like a toggle switch - high or low - and to get the toggle to high, I just click on the upper half of the knob.

Guys the best way to actually check the volume on the Hydrophone is when you are submerged before you turn your Batteries off........just point the hydrophone at your 180 position until you can "hear" your prop noise....then it is easy to tell when playing with the knob when the volume is "high". Then you can turn of the batteries and do your sweep.....it should stay on High until you exit after playing a session I think...then, just like resetting your torpedoes after a save, you must readjust the knob....you will miss a ton of stuff with this knob in the "Low" setting.

[Helen Keller]

Frequent diving to listen will improve your ship contacts. In my present patrol I found 4 out of 5 ships via hydrophone. Sometimes I'll sit for days submerged, moving at 1 knot and surface only to refresh the atmosphere. In a good part of the ocean this tactic works well.


If you travel deeper will you get sound from farther away what with denser water?

Would that be true in vanilla SH3, or GWX?