Ships in Kiel harbor still sinking at patrol return

[SleazeyWombat]

Running GWX, with no mods, other than some of the GWX approved optional mods.

Everytime I return from patrol to Kiel harbor, several of the ships there have settled to the bottom, and are decks awash. Also, they are making the sunken ship noises.

Not all the ships in harbor have this problem, just the ones that have been there a very long time. This includes the Lutzow (which I have mentioned before), one of the subs anchored there, and some other vessels, freighters, etc.

I wonder if the ships are getting swamped during storms, or has an air-raid hit the harbor? None of the decks-awash ships show any kind of damage.

[melnibonian]

Have you saved the game close to the harbour? If not then it's a sort of a bug and needs fixing.

[SleazeyWombat]

Have you saved the game close to the harbour? If not then it's a sort of a bug and needs fixing.

Do you mean just after leaving the harbor outbound for my patrol, or just before I get in when I return from patrol?

My PC has been having some heat issues lately (time for a good blow-job^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H dusting) and tends to crash at inopportune times during a patrol. So I save a lot, and I do tend to save as soon as I get out of the Kiel canal.

I have restarted once from a post-Kiel canal save, but I don't remember if that patrol ended with swamped vessels in Kiel though.

It is something I will pay attention to.

[melnibonian]

Check this out

There is a stock bug in SH3, where if you save near ANY port then when you return you will find that the AI looses their waypoints or are just on fire and sinking. The solution is to save when you are far away from any port.

[danlisa]

Copy & Paste, eh Mel??:hmm: :D:lol:

[melnibonian]

Copy & Paste, eh Mel??:hmm: :D:lol:
:oops: :oops: True. It was the simplest way to give a quick answer. I have properly credit you this time. It was not intentional mate and I'm trully sorry:oops: :oops:

[danlisa]

LOL, Don't be a prat mate, I don't mind.:lol::rotfl::up:

[melnibonian]

LOL, Don't be a prat mate, I don't mind.:lol::rotfl::up:
I know you're OK mate, but we have a saying back home: 'Good and honest explanations make good friendships';) :D

[Tiny]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:

[melnibonian]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:
In the new GWX 1.02 update loads of ships that have been moved slightly in harbours have been fixed, so hopefully you will not see again ships almost sunk or ships in dry land or on fire.

[danlisa]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:

:o:o:o:o:o Who said that? I thought the AI Ships loosing their Waypoints was hardcoded.

[melnibonian]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:

:o:o:o:o:o Who said that? I thought the AI Ships loosing their Waypoints was hardcoded.
No no sorry. I didn't explain myself correctly I was talking about docked ships in ports. For the ones who are moving there is nothing the Devs can do

[bigboywooly]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:
In the new GWX 1.02 update loads of ships that have been moved slightly in harbours have been fixed, so hopefully you will not see again ships almost sunk or ships in dry land or on fire.

Not true mate am afraid to say
The problem of the ships sinking when meeting them again is part stock and part GWX
Rubini is on the case now but its a sloooow job doing each ship individually

But as usual with SH3 things arent as straightforward as they seem
The armed trawler seems to hover above the sea when you revisit it ( in a broken off attack etc )
Yet if it is docked and you go away and come back it is riding low in the water
:damn:

You shouldnt see ships on land etc no
But the sinking issue is going to take a little time

[melnibonian]

I have this alot to, and I save alot aswell, if the computer would crash.

A GWX dev told me thay would fix this in a later update :yep:
In the new GWX 1.02 update loads of ships that have been moved slightly in harbours have been fixed, so hopefully you will not see again ships almost sunk or ships in dry land or on fire.

Not true mate am afraid to say
The problem of the ships sinking when meeting them again is part stock and part GWX
Rubini is on the case now but its a sloooow job doing each ship individually

But as usual with SH3 things arent as straightforward as they seem
The armed trawler seems to hover above the sea when you revisit it ( in a broken off attack etc )
Yet if it is docked and you go away and come back it is riding low in the water
:damn:

You shouldnt see ships on land etc no
But the sinking issue is going to take a little time
Thanks for the explanation BBW:up: I'm totally confident in you guys, I'm sure in the end you will crack it.:yep: :D

[irish1958]

No you are all wrong.:eek::eek:
The problem is that when you enter an harbor with a type II boat you really stink, and all the other boats are trying to get out of the way.

[Tiny]

Well either way I'm sure that whatever the GWX crew do it's for the best. :yep:

And irish that's partly true
:rotfl:

[SleazeyWombat]

Check this out

There is a stock bug in SH3, where if you save near ANY port then when you return you will find that the AI looses their waypoints or are just on fire and sinking. The solution is to save when you are far away from any port.


Thanks for the work around!

Glad to see this issue is being addressed.

One question:
How far away is far enough? 50 kilometers, the auto-return to port distance? Or further?

[danlisa]

I personally don't save while I'm within 300km of any scripted vessels. (read port traffic). This is probably overkill however, I would rather do that than return to port and see this bug.

[Wilcke]

Stupid question here....so while on patrol and its time to get back to Real Life...what is your procedure for shutting down SH3. I have SH3+1.4b+GWX1.02+SH3 Commander.

Wilcke

[Sailor Steve]

I make sure there are no enemy or neutral or friendly...oh, heck NO ships anywhere in sight, and just save the thing. I've never had a problem doing that.

[robbo180265]

And never save submerged either:up:

[Captain Nemo]

And never save submerged either:up:

I have saved submerged many times even with Destroyers close by and have been lucky not to experience any bugs, thats not to say that don't exist of course and I do try to avoid saving whilst submerged just in case these bugs rear their ugly head. Never saved close to port though.

Nemo

[Carotio]

The problem of the ships sinking when meeting them again is part stock and part GWX
Rubini is on the case now but its a sloooow job doing each ship individually

But the sinking issue is going to take a little time

I would like to add a little info here:
In my own modding, I have added a few ships docked in Kiel (for eye candy reasons!)
When I'm returning from patrol, following my navigated route through the North Sea and Kieler Kanal, then last place I save before entering Kiel or the Kieler Kanal, is in the middle of the North Sea, which should be pretty much enough long way from docked traffic in ports!
Back in Kiel, I have seen this phenomenon too, with both the scripted GWX ships plus my own scripted ships. However, in 3D the ships are halfway sunk/deck awash, but on the map (F5), they still exist as floating above water line! :huh:

So I wonder about two things:
Is it at all a problem in campaign_SCR? Or elsewhere?
Does this only happen in Kiel? I usually play from Kiel always, so I wonder if anyone normally playing from Wilhelmshaven could confirm, if it happens there as well...

[bigboywooly]

It happens anywhere

Have run numerous tests lately

Try attacking a convoy then breaking off
Sail at least 50 km away from that convoy then attack it again
Then you will see the same as is noticed at Kiel

The liners are among the worst and are not even in the convoy when you return
They are usually some distance behind at low or 0 speed half submerged

The problem started with stock in some ships and as those ships have been used for building new ones the problem has carried over , some of the changes made by GWX seem to make the problem more noticable too

This is a stock T3 in the stock game under the same test conditions

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3831/screenhunter277rg9.jpg

The longer the time between first and second contact the lower the ships sink

The small merc and tramp steamer are fine
The tug and trawler arent
Varies with ships

[Elder-Pirate]

Hmmm, the Stock T2 & T3 tankers are scripted to be low or high in the water depending how much oil she's carrying. Pay attention to the Captain's log and a low water line Tanker will show more tonnage than one that was higher in the water.

[Elder-Pirate]

Now I know the reason for this pic as I 'saved' just before entering NY harbor 1940:doh:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Ididntdoit.jpg

[bigboywooly]

Hmmm, the Stock T2 & T3 tankers are scripted to be low or high in the water depending how much oil she's carrying. Pay attention to the Captain's log and a low water line Tanker will show more tonnage than one that was higher in the water.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
No they are not
You cant set the depth and trust me the game aint that clever to recognise whats in it

:rotfl:

Oh I needed that

BTW what mod is that pic from

[Elder-Pirate]

Hmmm, the Stock T2 & T3 tankers are scripted to be low or high in the water depending how much oil she's carrying. Pay attention to the Captain's log and a low water line Tanker will show more tonnage than one that was higher in the water.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
No they are not
You cant set the depth and trust me the game aint that clever to recognise whats in it

:rotfl:

Oh I needed that

BTW what mod is that pic from


The pic had only SH 3 Commander 2.7 , harbor traffic 146 and JSGME.

I see you do not pay any attention to your "Captains log". March 2005 I think thats correct ? Anyway one of the SH3 Devs quoted that. I've sunk probably 20 of the T2 & T3 Tankers in SH 3 stock, this and that mod whatever and allways the same since I purchased the game when it first hit the shelves, a low water lined tanker will show more tonnage in the captains log than one with a high water line. These water lines are noted before any damage is done to the tanker of course. A good route to test this out is "New York-Gibraltar" "Pord Said-Oran-New York" or UGF,UGS on the SH 3 map in 1942/1943. Of course I have not used the GWX mod either, Hmmm maybe thats the prob. although I doubt it.

[bigboywooly]

The tanker in that pic above was at normal water line when I first met convoy
After sailing over 50 km away then coming back it had settled lower in the water

Explain that then ? that was in the stock game and using the Happy Times mission
A stock included mission

If you use SH3commander your tonnages are varied

[DEFAULTS]
UpperDisp=1.15
LowerDisp=0.75
YearlyDispAdjust=1.02

From SH3Commander ship displacements cfg

Pardon me if I dont believe a word of what the Dev said there

I and many more have spent a lot more time on the campaign files than any of the Devs and the devs record on unfinished features ingame is second to none

If what you say is true then why would Rowi have made a mod to simulate empty and full takers ?
Why would ppl test out lowering ships draft so simulate empty and full convoys

Just had a look through the stock campaign files

[RndGroup 703]
GroupName=USRNDPatrol_40_05
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=-9770720.000000
Lat=1074260.000000
Height=0.000000 - every single entry is set the same throughout the Rnd
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=1440
SpawnProbability=40
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
Heading=0.000000
Speed=14.000000
ColumnsNo=1
Spacing=500
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19400411
GameEntryTime=100
GameExitDate=19411220
GameExitTime=0
NextWP=0

[Unit 918]
Name=US DD Clemson#7
Class=DDClemson
Type=4
Origin=American
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19420215
GameEntryTime=100
GameExitDate=19430903
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-8874140.000000
Lat=4833550.000000
Height=0.000000 every entry in the Scr is set at this setting
Heading=59.172337
Speed=25.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

So there is no height adjustment on the stock files

Different cargo makes a slight difference to the tonnage of the ship
Add that to SH3commander variations

[ref]

a low water lined tanker will show more tonnage in the captains log than one with a high water line. These water lines are noted before any damage is done to the tanker of course.

The tonnage number on the Kpt's log is a random value generated from the default ship tonnage, the game doesn't simulate the ship's cargo weight, in fact there's no way to set an individual ship draught besides the sim file.

Ref

[JScones]

a low water lined tanker will show more tonnage in the captains log than one with a high water line. These water lines are noted before any damage is done to the tanker of course.

The tonnage number on the Kpt's log is a random value generated from the default ship tonnage, the game doesn't simulate the ship's cargo weight, in fact there's no way to set an individual ship draught besides the sim file.

Ref
And further, SH3 randomises tonnage by a whopping +/- 1 ton!

It's one of the reasons why the randomised tonnage feature was built into SH3Cmdr...people got sick of seeing "C3 Cargo 7901 tons" and "C3 Cargo 7899 tons" all the time. ;)

It wouldn't be the first time that a product developer has announced an inclusion only for it not to appear in the final product. :yep:

[Elder-Pirate]

Well the Captains logs threw me I guess. :oops: bigboywooly and I had a couple conversations in a PM and he straightened me out on the subject.

Sometime you win some, sometimes you lose some and this time It was proven I lost. :damn: :oops:

Oh well back to the drawing board.........er I mean back to sinking T3 tankers high or low. ;)