start thinking on a new age

[tonibamestre]

Hello guys,SH4 is almost out and sure it will bring us interesting moments.But,now seriously I think its time for Ubi developers to bring SH into a new dimension.
Imagine a post war base game,giving special atention to graphics quality,global representation,modern ports and naval bases,at least the most important ones on every continent. Concerning the subs,lets implement two,lets say an Skipjack and Alpha,but in a very very detailed way.Lets implement almost all 3d compartments,command room,officers room,sail,torpedo room,reactor control center.....etc. This way,once a base game is launched with that,more detailed units can follow,implementing the weapon-systems modernization, Sturgeon class,688,688i,Seawolf,Virginia, and SSBN classes,from both US and URSS,this for not talking about Royal Navy,French.....and so.

[fire-fox]

Hello guys,SH4 is almost out and sure it will bring us interesting moments.But,now seriously I think its time for Ubi developers to bring SH into a new dimension.
Imagine a post war base game,giving special atention to graphics quality,global representation,modern ports and naval bases,at least the most important ones on every continent. Concerning the subs,lets implement two,lets say an Skipjack and Alpha,but in a very very detailed way.Lets implement almost all 3d compartments,command room,officers room,sail,torpedo room,reactor control center.....etc. This way,once a base game is launched with that,more detailed units can follow,implementing the weapon-systems modernization, Sturgeon class,688,688i,Seawolf,Virginia, and SSBN classes,from both US and URSS,this for not talking about Royal Navy,French.....and so.

like..... Dangerous Waters!:shifty:

[flintlock]

Personally, I enjoy the WWII theatre and would be quite content to see the SH4 engine evolve even further and then return back to the Atlantic theatre.

[Nightmare]

SH has always been during WWII and will probably continue to be that way. Besides this topic has been beat to death already:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=100003

EDIT: Just noticed that you are the creator of the other thread too

[Sulikate]

Hello guys,SH4 is almost out and sure it will bring us interesting moments.But,now seriously I think its time for Ubi developers to bring SH into a new dimension.
Imagine a post war base game,giving special atention to graphics quality,global representation,modern ports and naval bases,at least the most important ones on every continent. Concerning the subs,lets implement two,lets say an Skipjack and Alpha,but in a very very detailed way.Lets implement almost all 3d compartments,command room,officers room,sail,torpedo room,reactor control center.....etc. This way,once a base game is launched with that,more detailed units can follow,implementing the weapon-systems modernization, Sturgeon class,688,688i,Seawolf,Virginia, and SSBN classes,from both US and URSS,this for not talking about Royal Navy,French.....and so.
like..... Dangerous Waters!:shifty:
Yeah, it would have something to do with DW, but much more graphicaly advanced (models, effects, textures, lightning) and more mod-friendly:yep:

[Iron Budokan]

Modern subs for the Silent Hunter series doesn't interest me at all. I kinda like DW, but I don't want to see DW in the Silent Hunter series. Just me, I guess....

[hyperion2206]

Modern subs for the Silent Hunter series doesn't interest me at all. I kinda like DW, but I don't want to see DW in the Silent Hunter series. Just me, I guess....

I'm thinking the same, mate! As if you had read my mind!:D

[CCIP]

I welcome any new subsim and setting, but why does it have to be Silent Hunter?

The series changed dev teams but stayed in the same period. I don't see why it has to go anywhere but that.

Also, I don't think there's real incentive. There is a LOT of WWII-related features that even SHIV doesn't hit on, and that a continuation of the series could implement. At the same time there is a solid base to build on. I just don't see why all of that needs to be discarded for starting from scratch - and make no mistake, something like that would be a start from scratch. There is so much different in modern sub warfare that the engine and developer experience from SHIII will be more or less useless for doing a game like that.

[Sailor Steve]

I said pretty much the same thing on the SH5 thread; there is plenty of room for a new modern-age subsim, just not with the Silent Hunter name.

CCIP, I see that you're a traditionalist, hearking back to the "Torpedo momber" days":rotfl: :up:

[Boris]

To the first post I reply with a short and blunt "No"... imagine Arnie saying it for added effect.

SH4 is a WWII sim. Modern Subsims are like modern flight sims, in that they modell advanced electronic beyond visual range crap. Borderline ok for a flightsim, but plain boring for a subsim.
Very little is actually known about the real workings of the modern equipment, plus any conflicht needs to be some cheesy hypothetical.

WW2 sets the perfect arena for subsims, as alot is known on the workings and specs of everything in the game. Plus surface and periscope attacks are so much cooler. The very nature of the WW2 U-boat/submarine is fundamentally different to that of a modern nuclear. WW2 subs are actually more like temporarily submersible torpedo boats. Like others have said, there is already dangerous waters.

[Iron Budokan]

I think it's the hypothetical "wars" or "conflicts" that bug me the most about modern sims of any kind. Please, don't get me wrong, I like modern subs and as I said I kinda like DW. (I like Sub Command a lot.) But try as you might there's still a sense of science fiction and forced story lines about modern sub sims that you don't have with WWII. Trust me, that's telling coming from me because I have written and published some science fiction.

There are game venues for modern subsims. I don't see the SH series as a good fit.

Now, a WWI sub sim in Silent Hunter is something I'd like to see.... :hmm:

[Iron Budokan]

Finally, it's not like I wouldn't like to play a very detailed Skipjack or 688 or whatever, along the lines as described. Are you kidding? I would LOVE that. But what's the story line gonna be? Yet another "war" or some political brush fire in the Middle East? Puh-leeze...

And as someone mentioned...peri attacks are just so much cooler than pushing a button and scratching your ass while a missile flies across the ocean to take out an illegal drug lab somewhere. *Yawn*

[Hylander_1314]

What makes the Silent Hunter so "great" is that you have to get close to your quarry.

You have to evade the escorts which can out run your boat surfaced or otherwise. A real "cat & mouse" experience.

You can opt to manually set up your torpedo runs to attack the ships.

You have to constantly be on the lookout for E/A.

Your lookouts have to be able to spot surface ships, far enough away to let you crashdive.

You can have realistic torpedoes that misfire, or run too deep, but I have yet to see one run wild, but got chased by one of my own acoustic torpedoes that exploded prematurely. Glad it was too far away from the boat to cause any damage. But scared the bejesus out of me, as we dived quickly to 150m.

No super advanced radar, and sonar. Or sonar bouys.

Besides, WWII is where sub, and anti-sub tactics really were pioneered, and the developement of both really excellerated.

[AJ!]

Of course they could always add an unlockable Los Angeles class submarine to SH4 :p

you would have to do something pritty extreme to unlock it.... maybe take down the yamato by ramming it in a S-class :rotfl:

[peterloo]

Why don't we get a I-boat sim, or a British / French or even Russian subsim :cool:

I-boat seems cool and I think you guys will definitely love it... :up:
Just hope that you won't be the captain of a kamikaze or midget sub... :nope:

What we want is a more realistic world - different cargoes got slight different, different DDs with different numbers printed on the hulls. The most important thing - AI subs and AI torpedoes... Hope that your @ss won't be chased by a Fido... :damn:

British and French subs looks cool, however they cannot do much job (especially French as it was occupied by Nazis after 1940) Britian busily building fighters to counterstrike Ju-88s instead of subs... :arrgh!:

The reason that the developers don't put subs of other nations in are because

1) Lack of data: Who know so much about I-boat and willing to do the research? Search for U-boat or American subs are far much easier :o

2) Lack of doctine: USA and Nazi Germany got a unrestricted sub doctine, but how about the others??? Japs put resources in Yamato but not I-boats, got tons of I-boats but cannot bring any significant threat to Australia... :ping:

3) Language problem: Who the hell is willing to visit Japanese sites to acquire Japanese sub datas? Even if you are willing to do so, can u read Japanese??? :dead:

For me, the theme is not important, but

WE MUST HAVE AI SUBS IN SH5:sunny:

[Torplexed]

I have to agree with some of views expressed. What makes the old diesel subs so interesting to me is their flawed, hybrid nature. Not quite a submarine, not quite a surface ship. On the surface the old submarines were at their most mobile state, but vulnerable to any surface ship armed with anything bigger than a pea-shooter. Underwater they were armored and somewhat invisible...but slow, blind and limited in the time they could spend submerged.

Modern nuclear subs on the other hand, come across as these perfect engines of destruction that usually submerge at the beginning of a patrol and don't come up until it's over or there is an emergency. The enemy is never seen other than as a sound or sonar image.

Somebody once compared modern naval warfare to eggshells armed with hammers fighting each other. Whoever gets the first blow in wins. Probably par for the course in this electronic age. Just never impressed me as very interesting.

[timmyg00]

As someone who is interested in all eras of submarine combat, I can say that I would welcome a sim, or a series of sims, that would bridge the gap between WWII and the present day, basically spanning the entire Cold War era.

As for calling such a sim, or series of sims, part of the Silent Hunter series, that's all a matter of opinion. Face it, if the best WWII submarine sim ever came out tomorrow, would you give a hoot what the name on the box is, i.e. that it wasn't part of the Silent Hunter series? Of course you wouldn't. You'd play the new game with the new name with absolute abandon and sing its praises from the lookout's perch, and when your friends ask you about your former love, you'll say: Silent Who?

Similarly, if an early Cold War sim called something like "Silent Hunter: Cold Warriors" were released, would you really care that the Silent Hunter name was used?

As for the differences between WWII sims and Cold War or modern-era sims, that's a topic for long discussion in itself that arguably doesn't belong here, but while we're at it...

WWII sims are great. I love the old technology, the historical lessons, the nostalgia (although how someone can have nostalgia for an era they never lived through is a mystery to me!), the spirit... but you always know how they're going to end. Maybe not for you... at the end of your campaign, you might end up a hero or as fish food, but you always know what the end result of the war is. And as for tactics, it's pretty much a finite set of tactics constrained by the technology of the era (which is also true today, but it's a quite different set of tactics, with a broader range of possibilities).

On the other hand, one of the things I like about the modern sims, in addition to the "sensor war" and advanced weaponry, is the "what-if" factor of mission creation - i'm one of those guys who likes to create an occasional custom scenario. Sure, we know what didn't happen, e.g. the US and USSR never came directly to blows at sea - but what if they did? If we had a sim that covered the early, mid, and late Cold War periods, we could speculate by simulation what such a conflict might have been like. Especially the early days... there was so much technological development, so many prototype systems, so much was new and yet still unknown. The fleet boats of the US were being given fleet snorkels, Guppy conversions, and other exotic conversions like the radar picket, the first SSNs were on the building ways, and the USSR was turning out quite a number of diesel boats based on the German Type XXII, with their own SSNs in the pipeline. SSGs were soon to follow, from both sides. Weapons and sensors on both sides were advancing as well.

Only within the last ten years have we known the truth about what happened with the submarines involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis; what if that had escalated?

Don't worry, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm just saying... what if?

TG

[WilhelmSchulz.]

I would like to see a CW sub sim. More like a re-make of Red Storm Rising. :yep:

[tonibamestre]

This is the spirit Im trying to introduce guys.Why to keep fastened on the old war? We have had during this time very good subsims about,and now SH4 is the culmination of all them.Lets give to Ubi team the push enough to bring up their developments to our age,with their excellent graphics and new ideas.Concerning the future envelopment or theatres,dont worry,some cold war era missions can be recovered,and the rest can be left to the online players,playing their own strategy.
Think how challenging can result the use of modern sonars(like in DW is) combined with actual weapons,and naval units perfectly designed by Ubi in most of its aspects .
I really think would be a great success.

[Morts]

blah ! modern age:down:

[OlegM]

SH4 is a WWII sim. Modern Subsims are like modern flight sims, in that they modell advanced electronic beyond visual range crap. Borderline ok for a flightsim, but plain boring for a subsim.


Boring?!?! I find Dangerous Waters dozen times more exciting than SH3, in as much as any sub sim from any period can be "exciting". In fact I still have DW on my disk and play it sometimes, while SH3 was uninstalled many months ago.

I am not commenting on the quality of both games (both are top notch) simply on the "boredom-factor", as I strongly disagree with your assesment.

Now that I posted in the thread, I might as well add my opinion on "SH5". Since Ubi devs lack expertise on post-WW2, I'd much rather see them do some destroyer, battleship or aircraft carrier sim from WW2.

Oleg

[Torplexed]

I agree with Oleg. A Destroyer Command 2 is looonnggg overdue.

[GakunGak]

If Sh5 is gonna be about nukes, I would like:
1: Seawolf and LA 688i
2. Complete interior of the ship, as in SH3/4
3. More crew responce to commands, say full procedure on diving....
4. Ability to select speed/depth as in DW
5. Not a resource hog...
I would personally like it, if the US Navy, Departpent of Defence and other sh*t allow this....:up: :up: :up: :up: :rock:

[Chief of the Boat]

I come from a Naval Real World... and a Jet Airplane Game World. As much as my spirit and feelings have always been with the Naval Air Game, Jane's F/A-18, that wonderful dynamic game of Falcon 4 makes it The Best. When I first played Jane's 688i I found I was in the 'Mission Success/Mission Failure' mode again... as in the Hornet Game. For that matter, when I got DW...more of it. Then, one sunny, surprising day I stumbled onto SH3 ! Voon-Der-Bar! No fixed Missions! Hooray! What a GAME!!! Falcon 4 in a Naval Game! I can't WAIT for my copy of SH4 to get here.

I'd be happy to play a Modern Sub Game... I see them pass, out my window, often. Not 'Attack' boats... but... But only if it didn't turn out to be like that Paper Weight I have called Dee Wubbaya...

COB

[hyperion2206]

SH4 is a WWII sim. Modern Subsims are like modern flight sims, in that they modell advanced electronic beyond visual range crap. Borderline ok for a flightsim, but plain boring for a subsim.

Boring?!?! I find Dangerous Waters dozen times more exciting than SH3, in as much as any sub sim from any period can be "exciting". In fact I still have DW on my disk and play it sometimes, while SH3 was uninstalled many months ago.

I am not commenting on the quality of both games (both are top notch) simply on the "boredom-factor", as I strongly disagree with your assesment.

Now that I posted in the thread, I might as well add my opinion on "SH5". Since Ubi devs lack expertise on post-WW2, I'd much rather see them do some destroyer, battleship or aircraft carrier sim from WW2.

Oleg

What I don't like about DW is that you have to all things yourself. If you command a OHP and a vampire is coming your way you have to identify it and shoot it down yourself. That game would be awesome if you had some sort of AI that would deal with such things because I doubt that a captain has do to all these things himself.;)

[tonibamestre]

Dont know if adding directly a 688 and Seawolf class would be a fantastic idea in a theorical future SH. I bed mostly to implement some initial SSNs,lets say from the end of the 60s,dont know,Skipjack and Sturgeon class vs its soviet counterparts.This,talking about attack SSNs.Some early SSBN can be introduced aswell,but this clearly,with more 3d compartments recreated than the ones appearing in the past SH series,more lightning,more operative sensors....etc.
I think is the best idea if Ubi people want to keep sailing with submarine simulators.Like some people posted here,a destroyer sim would be nice,or even a Carrier sim,but Im not sure that Ubi team wanted to follow a new line of sims,other than submarines,I can be wrong,who knows.
But be sure that just starting at the beginning of the Cold War till reaching our days,theres a lot of work to do if a new sim version was developed.

By the other hand,theres a team called XSI.They are developing an USAF detailed training sim called Fighter Ops.Once this sim comes out,is going to be followed by other sceneries and fighter-bombers addons,and one of this is going to be a Naval pack to be integrated on the first release.Maybe,they are going to develop Navy units from different sides,carriers,subs,FFGs,destroyers....and more in order to have a complex an integrated military simulator able to implement all kind of controllable units on a very detailed scale.
Anyway,this is going to be at long term,talking about years,in own XSI developers words,but if all this comes alive,we can be expecting the most realistic and complex modern day combat sim ever developed.

[AJ!]

They could always have a Subsim based off Red October :p

[timmyg00]

I think the important thing to focus on here is not what we like and/or dislike about DW or SHIII, but to start thinking about the future. (Yes, i know SHIV isn't even out yet... but that's no reason not to "wish-list" for the next generation...)

I, for one, have said my piece about what I like about both genres. However, I'm done with that. This isn't the place to say, "This is what I don't like about X, and that's why I play Y"...

On the other hand... if there's something from a gameplay perspective, such as a dislike of scripted missions in favor of a campaign mode that someone like to see in the "next gen" sim, I think that would be welcome...

TG

[GakunGak]

What makes the diffrence of realyty vs fantasy? Is there any real-world mission in DW? They could integrate: Red October, Red Storm Rising and some created missions... WW2 is over and we should strap for WW3, the nuke age!:rock:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Maby we can also take a step backwards and go for WWI U-Boats. That would be interesting.

[AJ!]

Maby we can also take a step backwards and go for WWI U-Boats. That would be interesting.

That would be great fun.... theres already a game out just like SH3 with WW1 U-boats but apparantly it wasnt any good :-?

I really didnt enjoy games like Dangerous waters... I know graphics arnt everything in a game but that game really lacked Eye candy. I know many people love a incredably complex sim but sadly im not one of them.... I found all the glowing buttons in DM soo confusing that i never got anywhere.. Im still trying to find out how to launch a ballistic missile from my sub :rotfl:

[tonibamestre]

You know,this is the challenging about whatever kind of simulators,mainly modern ones.First you need to spend time reading and checking the onboard manuals,knowing the machine you are going to fight with and its limitations,so aswell have knowledge about enemy units.
I think the more complex a sim is,concerning its onboard systems and outside graphics and detail,the more interesting can be,because it implies a prior ceremony before you are Combat Ready to use it.
About what you say of DW,I think you are not able to launch ballistic missiles from your controllable units,688i and Seawolf doesnt have it,and so Akulas,because they are Attack subs,SSBN hunters.
This is why I dream about an early modern SH,it doesnt matter if it has to be developed along 4 years,but a very carefull and detailed new sim from wich a new generation can be based.
I really hope Ubi developers have a this into consideration for the future.

[GakunGak]

I thought Akula was primarirly designed to hunt LA 688i...:hmm: