if there was a new GWX RPM chart, would you use it for hydrophone hunting?

[raduz]

just wanna know if it is worth to do...

[Mooncatt]

yes i reckon i would be easy to work out the targets speed etc

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Definitely yes. I'm a heavy user of hydrophones and it would add even more immersion to the game.

[Tiny]

Right now I'm to lazy and impatient for that. :)

I manage to get into a good firing position everytime I encounter something so i'm happy with that.

But I'm still in the process of discovering GWX features. =]

[DrMilton]

I don't know if GWX uses different rpms than stock game. I certainly use rpm identification. I find it quick and efficient. What I haven't found is a chart for warship rpms, only merchants. Anyone knows anything?

[robbo180265]

If someone wants to make it - I'm all for it:up:

[RawRecruit]

I'd be interested in learning how they used hydrophones for speed, direction, etc, but I wouldn't use it in game proper. When I play, I'm the captain and I have crew whose job it is to listen...

[raduz]

I don't know if GWX uses different rpms than stock game.

It does. And if there was a " GWX hydrophone hunting mod", it would definitely use the stock game propeler sounds.

What I haven't found is a chart for warship rpms, only merchants. Anyone knows anything?

Yes, there is a british ASW RPM chart by Greyrider. You can find it here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=86508

nevertheless, there are no american warships and remember, you have to replace the GWX propeler sounds by the stock ones if you want to use the chart.

[Jimbuna]

YEP :yep: ...I'd be interested in that :up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Sounds interesting.

[DrMilton]

Yes, there is a british ASW RPM chart by Greyrider. You can find it here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=86508



Thanx, I will try it. :up:

[raduz]

Yes, there is a british ASW RPM chart by Greyrider. You can find it here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=86508


Thanx, I will try it. :up:

you are welcome, go ahead;)

[Sailor Steve]

I'll have to recheck my books, but the RPMs listed on that chart have nothing to do with real life.

The fact is real submariners tried firing without visual contact, and failed every time.

[raduz]

I'll have to recheck my books, but the RPMs listed on that chart have nothing to do with real life.

The fact is real submariners tried firing without visual contact, and failed every time.

why do you think so? let me quote greyriders discussion on this topic :

Mmhh... :hmm: I think so that was not the method in that age.

... in WW2 age, the periscope was used to determine range.

I am not sure they can determine propeller turns/min in that age, plus they need the data about how many knots per turns is corresponding to that ship. I think so they had not that data in that age.

:up:
i hate to say this, but redwine has given you wrong information, this method was used by american submarines in ww II.
propeller pitch was known then as it is now. TMA is a more modern way now. but not then.
below is taken from fleet submarine.com, which is all about wwII
fleet submarines of the american fleet.

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/

How to take a turn count
1. Train the hydrophone directly on the bearing where the prop beats are loudest.

2. Turn the prop-count detector ON. It may bring out the beats more clearly. (If it does not, turn it OFF.)

3. Notice whether the beats are accented or unaccented. Accented beats go CHUG, chug, chug (three-bladed propeller)-or CHUG, chug, chug, chug (four-bladed propeller). Unaccented beats go chug, chug, chug, chug, chug.

4. Get in rhythm with the beats by pumping your arm up and down. If there is an accented beat, let your hand come down with every accented CHUG -or if the beats are all the same, on every chug.

5. Count the number of times you pump your hand down in 15 seconds.

6. Multiply this count by 4 to get the number of rpm (revolutions per minute). Report the rpm immediately. For example, if your 15-second count is 24, the rpm will be 96, and you will report: "JP, turn count is ze-ro nines six. Good count." If the beats are so rapid that you are not sure of the accuracy of your count, report: "Poor count."

7. After you have reported, make sure that the prop-count detector switch is OFF.

as you can see, it was used in ww II.

http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

[High Voltage]

definitely!! been interested in trying out this method and seeing if it's worth it - especially for attacking ships in really bad weather!!!:ping:

[Iron Budokan]

Nope, not me.:down:

[Nippelspanner]

Mh, if someone tell me how this works, I will try to edit the GWX Propellersounds that way...

Where can I find a chart for merchants to do some test´s?

[Corsair]

I'd be interested in learning how they used hydrophones for speed, direction, etc, but I wouldn't use it in game proper. When I play, I'm the captain and I have crew whose job it is to listen...

You should try to stand behind the hydrophone yourself from time to time - depth around 20m and all stop - preferably with good headphones. You would be surprised how many targets you would find that your crew never hears...:D

[raduz]

Mh, if someone tell me how this works, I will try to edit the GWX Propellersounds that way...

Where can I find a chart for merchants to do some test´s?



http://www.subsim.com/subsim_files/patches2005.html
DL the sound trainer by Greyrider. you can find the chart in documentation,

[Iron Budokan]

But did the Germans really use this method in WWII?

[Sailor Steve]

why do you think so?
Because Americans did NOT use that method during the war. They trained to use it before the war, and found that when they tried it in actual combat they failed miserably, every single time. Read Blair's Silent Victory. I can't get at my books right now, so I can't quote you chapter and verse.

As to the game, I still haven't been able to look at the library's copy of Conway's, but if I remember correctly a British Tribal class destroyer at flank speed is turning something like 220 RPM, which is 3.67 times per second, which is impossible to count accurately. The game has them turning much slower, so as with a lot of other mechanisms the game lets you do something they couldn't do historically.

Unfortunately, Greyrider gives a link to the homepage for The Fleet-Type Submarine, but not the specific page. I can't find it anywhere.

[raduz]

Because Americans did NOT use that method during the war. They trained to use it before the war, and found that when they tried it in actual combat they failed miserably, every single time. Read Blair's Silent Victory. I can't get at my books right now, so I can't quote you chapter and verse.

As to the game, I still haven't been able to look at the library's copy of Conway's, but if I remember correctly a British Tribal class destroyer at flank speed is turning something like 220 RPM, which is 3.67 times per second, which is impossible to count accurately. The game has them turning much slower, so as with a lot of other mechanisms the game lets you do something they couldn't do historically.

Unfortunately, Greyrider gives a link to the homepage for The Fleet-Type Submarine, but not the specific page. I can't find it anywhere.

Ok, then lets not use it:)

[Rykaird]

I'd be interested in learning how they used hydrophones for speed, direction, etc, but I wouldn't use it in game proper. When I play, I'm the captain and I have crew whose job it is to listen...

You should try to stand behind the hydrophone yourself from time to time - depth around 20m and all stop - preferably with good headphones. You would be surprised how many targets you would find that your crew never hears...:D

I have a pretty good "chief" in there too, well decorated and experienced, and I have made a habit of this when I submerge. I hear ships all the time that he misses.

[Dantenoc]

Maybe determining a target's exact speed by rpms is a bit too much, but a training mission to help us differentiate the sound of an aircraft carrier from that of a tugboat would be very much apreciated... specialy when your attacking a convoy and have a hard time telling which of the sonar contacts corresponds to that big and juicy tanker. :hmm:

[Lt. Staumeier]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

I would. I've played a lot of Dangerous Waters/Sub Command and a lot of the solution there comes from sound alone, so being able to determine type and/or speed from sound in the hydrophone would sure make me spend more time in there. This is actually a thing that I can look-over the fact that it might not have been done this way in real life. But, it's a game, no?

So yes, do it and I'll love you long time ^^

[raduz]

So yes, do it and I'll love you long time ^^
uhm... :hmm: I am afraid my sexual orientation is somewhere else:D

[Lt. Staumeier]

Okay, so you'll settle with my neverending gratitude then? *smile*

[Iron Budokan]

I personally wouldn't but I still think it's a good idea....

[greyrider]

from the "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual"
http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm#chap08

804. SPEED DETERMINATION:
(a) The Fire Control Party must utilize every means at their disposal to determine target speed. The following means are available:
(1) TDC: This method is described in OP1442A.

(2) PLOT: This method is described in detail in Chapter 5.

(3) TURN COUNT: The Approach Officer should have available for ready reference the most complete set of curves that he can obtain of different types and classes of enemy vessels.
Their use will furnish a means of approximating the speed of an observed target.

end reference to manual


sailor steve was right when he said that it was quickly dropped in the begining, but for what reasons? i dont know all the reasons, but i can guess at some, torpedo failures, inexperience of crews, green crews,but the one thing that
stands out above all others was the lack of japanese radar.
we have proved in sh3 that the u s navies prewar doctrine was correct.

this link goes to HNSA-Historic Naval Sound and Video

http://www.hnsa.org/sound/sonobuoy2/record4.mov
this is a link to a sonobouy training record of estimating a subs speed by rpm.

[LukeFF]

Maybe determining a target's exact speed by rpms is a bit too much, but a training mission to help us differentiate the sound of an aircraft carrier from that of a tugboat would be very much apreciated... specialy when your attacking a convoy and have a hard time telling which of the sonar contacts corresponds to that big and juicy tanker. :hmm:

Seconded