Depth charge attacks

[Phil]

i know it has been stated that the number of charges each ship carries is over the actual amount that real ships carry for game purposes, but what is the amount that we can actually expect in an attack? will it be possible to just go deep to avoid attacks especially early on in the war? i usually didnt make it out alive in sh3 unless the ship decided to stop

[birdy]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:

[fire-fox]

well i dont think that the japanes depth charges could be set to depths deeper that 150m before 1943 but thay where HUGE compered to the Allide ones and sank quiker but i hope that its not the same as SH3's 111111111111111111111Million per tug boat :damn:

[birdy]

well i dont think that the japanes depth charges could be set to depths deeper that 150m before 1943 but thay where HUGE compered to the Allide ones and sank quiker

are the japanes DC's different to the allied ones??
what is the difference? are they only bigger? or do they more damage?

[TDK1044]

The Jap Destroyers are going to be dropping copies of the Collectors Addition in protest!

[hyperion2206]

well i dont think that the japanes depth charges could be set to depths deeper that 150m before 1943 but thay where HUGE compered to the Allide ones and sank quiker
are the japanes DC's different to the allied ones??
what is the difference? are they only bigger? or do they more damage?

From what I've heard the Japanese DC's contain more explosives, thus inflicting more damage.

[GakunGak]

well i dont think that the japanes depth charges could be set to depths deeper that 150m before 1943 but thay where HUGE compered to the Allide ones and sank quiker
are the japanes DC's different to the allied ones??
what is the difference? are they only bigger? or do they more damage?

From what I've heard the Japanese DC's contain more explosives, thus inflicting more damage.
And will keep a us sub skipper in stress constantly scratching his head...
Do we expect that flooding is worse in other compartments than other and how fast the damages are repaired by crew based on experience?
And will I get a SH4Commander to promote everybody after first patrol?:hmm: :smug:

[hyperion2206]

well i dont think that the japanes depth charges could be set to depths deeper that 150m before 1943 but thay where HUGE compered to the Allide ones and sank quiker
are the japanes DC's different to the allied ones??
what is the difference? are they only bigger? or do they more damage?
From what I've heard the Japanese DC's contain more explosives, thus inflicting more damage. And will keep a us sub skipper in stress constantly scratching his head...
Do we expect that flooding is worse in other compartments than other and how fast the damages are repaired by crew based on experience?
And will I get a SH4Commander to promote everybody after first patrol?:hmm: :smug:


That would be awesome, but I hope that SH4 will be perfect so that we don't need a SH4Commander.;):lol:

[fire-fox]

im just bloody clade there arn't any Headgehogs in the japanes invitory.;)

[Sailor Steve]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:
What period are you playing in? By 1943 most British destroyers were carrying 120 depth charges. :yep:

[Corsair]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:

Don't know what version / what period / how often you're playing, or how long you've been DC'd, because either in NYGM or GWX mod, it happens to me quite often. If they can still have a location, they will keep on tracking and making "dry runs" to keep you under.

[StandingCow]

I remember in Silent Service there was a certain depth where you hit a temperature difference.. and you were safe there from sonar... I am assuming that that is a real thing (the underwater currents) but did it really help hide them? Will this be part of SH4?

Found it:
http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/manuals/silentsr.txt
"Water Temperature - When the dial is in the blue section, it indicates the
submarine is below a thermal gradient layer. Note: Hiding below a thermal
gradient layer can provide extra protection against the enemy's counter
attack."

[Torplexed]

About March of 1943 most US subs had had a bathythermograph installed aboard so finding and making use of thermal gradients should be a big part of the sim. They usually only appeared in deep water tho.

[DrMilton]

Anyone remembers SH2? It used thermal layers too. But they dont make you invisible. They weaken the sound that will be emitted by you or bounce on you by the sonar (I always wondered how that guy in my crew knew when i crossed one)

[TheSatyr]

Japanese DCs could go deeper than 150 feet,but they judged sub depths by how deep their subs usually went..they didn't take into account that US subs could dive deeper than their subs.

And I think the depth was 250 and not 150...it was only later in the war that they learned that US Subs went deeper than 250.

Of course if you are caught in shallow water it doesn't matter how deep the DCs can go.

[peterloo]

I think that Jap DCs are CRAPS before 1943... Cannot set depths below 150m and also the sonar coperation will attack runs is poor

After 1943, the depth matter is solved, and later, the amount of explosives is doubled... Sure, the attack is more fierce... But, wait... after 1943, the patrols of Japanese is those MG junks and small patrol ships... Most big ships (DD) retired or sent to the freezy grave undersea

[fire-fox]

I think that Jap DCs are CRAPS before 1943... Cannot set depths below 150m and also the sonar coperation will attack runs is poor

After 1943, the depth matter is solved, and later, the amount of explosives is doubled... Sure, the attack is more fierce... But, wait... after 1943, the patrols of Japanese is those MG junks and small patrol ships... Most big ships (DD) retired or sent to the freezy grave undersea

after 1943 it gets a lot harder for the us subs as the japs consentrat there escorts and DD in shipping bottlenecks and in convoy's but not like the allide ones, thay may only be 2 or 3 mercants but could have 5+ DD/escrots and maybe some CL's

[StandingCow]

After 1943, the depth matter is solved, and later, the amount of explosives is doubled... Sure, the attack is more fierce... But, wait... after 1943, the patrols of Japanese is those MG junks and small patrol ships... Most big ships (DD) retired or sent to the freezy grave undersea

after 1943 it gets a lot harder for the us subs as the japs consentrat there escorts and DD in shipping bottlenecks and in convoy's but not like the allide ones, thay may only be 2 or 3 mercants but could have 5+ DD/escrots and maybe some CL's

That is rather inefficient isn't it? :damn:

[fire-fox]

After 1943, the depth matter is solved, and later, the amount of explosives is doubled... Sure, the attack is more fierce... But, wait... after 1943, the patrols of Japanese is those MG junks and small patrol ships... Most big ships (DD) retired or sent to the freezy grave undersea

after 1943 it gets a lot harder for the us subs as the japs consentrat there escorts and DD in shipping bottlenecks and in convoy's but not like the allide ones, thay may only be 2 or 3 mercants but could have 5+ DD/escrots and maybe some CL's

That is rather inefficient isn't it? :damn:

you got to remember that nealy all of the war materials japan needed where from oversea's and that when SubPac finaly got there arses in gear and started to send subs to hunt in the bottle neck's and shipping roots that there tankers and merchants used. and thay also used the same ships to diliver troops and equipment on there way to "the front" while thay were on there way to pice up more rubber, fual, oil, copper, and that kind of stuff.

[JSF]

Passing a thermal layer was always a benefit. And I'm sure everyone knows depending on the gradient there are circumstances where your sub for the most part has disappeared! The operator of the listening gear of the DD or PC may receive momentary sound from the sub especialy if you have increased speed but pinging from above will be reflected back. And in some cases where several gradients exists sound will be trapped between. You could run at full speed if that's your desire and throw a party to boot....

Some suggested this phenomenon occurs in deep water. And thats true but it is also true that it occurs around the shollower waters of the Pacific Asian archipelagos.

It will be interesting to see how this is modeled in the game. Especially since temperature gradients and strong currents were factors to consider while navigating close inshore (ten fathom curve). And both of these were greatly influenced by seasonal changes in those areas.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:
Don't know what version / what period / how often you're playing, or how long you've been DC'd, because either in NYGM or GWX mod, it happens to me quite often. If they can still have a location, they will keep on tracking and making "dry runs" to keep you under.
What annoyed me was the single destroyer breaking away from its high speed convoy, and still pursuing me after 24 hours.

[StandingCow]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:
Don't know what version / what period / how often you're playing, or how long you've been DC'd, because either in NYGM or GWX mod, it happens to me quite often. If they can still have a location, they will keep on tracking and making "dry runs" to keep you under.
What annoyed me was the single destroyer breaking away from it's high spped convoy, and still pursuing me after 24 hours.

What did you do? Make fun of the captain's mother?! Jeeze. :rotfl:

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

yeah i hope that the amount of depth charches is more realalistic in sh4.
couse the amount of the DC's are way to high in sh3. i never had once that a destroyer runs out of DC's:nope:
Don't know what version / what period / how often you're playing, or how long you've been DC'd, because either in NYGM or GWX mod, it happens to me quite often. If they can still have a location, they will keep on tracking and making "dry runs" to keep you under.
What annoyed me was the single destroyer breaking away from it's high spped convoy, and still pursuing me after 24 hours.
What did you do? Make fun of the captain's mother?! Jeeze. :rotfl:
Well, firing off half a dozen torpedos at him over a 3 hour period probably didn't endear me to him.

[Finback]

At the beginning of the war Japanese depth charges were 250 pounders. The max depth they could set them was 200 feet (I think). In '43 they corrected the depth issue and could set them much deeper. They also started making 600 pounders. The problem with 600 lb dc's is you couldn't carry as many--about 1/3 the amount as opposed to 250 pounders.

As far as "fast sinking" depth charges... The Japanese continued to use barrels which sank slow. I've never read that they adopted a "tear drop" design like the allies did. The tear drop dc's sank much faster than standard dc's.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I may be out of school but I still wanna learn :know: .

:hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMJAP_ASW.htm

98 or 197 feet (30 or 60 m)
Later versions included a 295 foot (90 m) setting
Not only was 197 feet the deepest setting, but 98 and 197 feet were the only settings.

[TheSatyr]

The Japanese Navy did suffer for the fact that the Army ran the Government. The Army kinda forgot that once you take an area with resources that you have to bring the resources back home. Therefore,convoys and convoy escorts were a real low priority pre-war. Later in the war they did mass produce a few rather nasty classes of escorts.

And you had the Navy mentality that Torpedoes were the "sexy" weapons for DDs and went all out to make the best torps...and overlooked the Depth Charges. But again,they used their own subs as a guide to how deep they could go,how fast they could go underwater and how manueverable subs were. They were wrong on all 3 counts.

As for later in the war,it wasn't unusual to have Tanker convoys with just 4 Tankers and anywhere from 6-10 escorts. By that time it didn't make any difference. The US subs would use radar to out manuever the escorts and kill the Tankers right under the escorts noses.

[Phil]

would a real destoyer stay behind to attack you instead of continue with the convoy i remember this happening often in sh3

[Sailor Steve]

Usually not. According to Nicholas Monsarrat (The Cruel Sea), early on the corvettes were detailed to pick up survivors, and told not to look for the u-boats at all. Later certain escorts were sent after the u-boats, but couldn't spend the time away from the convoy for dedicated attacks. It wasn't until 1942 and the hunter-killer groups that hunting in earnest became the norm.

In the Pacific the Japanese suffered from a severe shortage of escorts. Destroyers normally only escorted convoys if they were part of a task force headed in the same direction. The usual escorts were small patrol ships, or sometimes just merchants with depth charges. Again, late in the war that started to change, but in the Pacific not by a lot. Reading the Japanese convoy documents I was surprised at how many of their convoys were unescorted, with the merchants themselves carrying DCs.

[Morts]

wonder if there will be alot of un-escorted convoys in SH4:hmm:
oh god that could be so sweet:arrgh!: attacking an un-escorted convoy and just blowing it to pieces:arrgh!:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

wonder if there will be alot of un-escorted convoys in SH4:hmm:
oh god that could be so sweet:arrgh!: attacking an un-escorted convoy and just blowing it to pieces:arrgh!:
You're going to get so bored with it very soon, that I can bet you're going to sail back to Atlantic and sink some U-Boots. :rotfl:

[Morts]

well who says im much of a convoy attacker ?
ive done like 3-4 convoy attacks in all the time ive had SH3
4-6 months:rotfl:
but it would nice for once to do a convoy attack where you can slaughter them
and shoot the survivors (depending on my mood)

[AirborneTD]

I think that Jap DCs are CRAPS before 1943... Cannot set depths below 150m and also the sonar coperation will attack runs is poor

After 1943, the depth matter is solved

According to Blair's Silent Victory, this may have been the result of a US congressmen (Andrew Jackson May) blabbing to the press after a fact-finding tour of the Pacific. The press reported the story (what a surprise) which essentially said , "Don't worry about our Subs. The Japanese are setting their depth charges too shallow."

Lockwood, obviously upset, took a shot at May stating, "He should be pleased to know that the Japs set 'em deeper now."

He also stated that that probably cost us 10 subs and 800 officers and men.