US Sub loses in WW II [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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NEON DEON

02-04-07, 05:14 AM

In SH4, I wonder how many ways you can lose your sub?

Listed below is an estimated breakdown of the 52 U.S. sub losses in WW II plus a list of every sub lost by date, name, and estimated loss.

---------------------------
Active ASW-----------26 (5 by air/16 by sea/5 by air-sea combo)
Mines-----------------08
Enemy subs-----------03
Shore Battery---------01
Air Raid---------------01
---------------------------
Enemy Action Total 39
---------------------------
Ran Aground-----------04
Malfunction------------04
Friendly Fire-----------02
Circular Torp Run------02
Collision---------------01
---------------------------
Accident Total---------13

1941/1942

1) Sealion: 12/25/1941 Scuttled after an air raid on Cavite Navy Yard P. I. damaged her earlier that month.
2) S-36: 01/21/42 Destroyed by crew after she ran aground in Makassar Strait.
3) S-26: 01/24/1942 Sunk in a collision with its own escort US PC-460 in the Gulf of Panama.
4) Shark I: 02/07 to 03/07/1942 Presumed lost on patrol while off the Celebes.
5) Perch: 03/03/1942 Scuttled off Java after being severely depth charged the day before.
6) S-27: 06/19/1942 Ran aground off Amchitka Island in the Aleutians.
7) S-39: 08/14/1942 Ran aground off Rossel Island in the Louisade Archipelago.
8) Grunion: 07/03 to 08/16/1942 Presumed lost on patrol off Kiska (accident?).

1943

9) Argonaut: 01/10/1943 Sank by depth charging and gunfire on patrol off New Britain.
10) Amberjack: 02/14 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Rabaul(air/sea?).
11) Grampus: 02/21 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the Blackett Strait.
12) Triton: 03/11 to 04/10/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off of Rabaul.
13) Pickerel: 03/22 to 5/12/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
14) Grenadier: 04/22/1943 Scuttled after being depth charged off Malay Peninsula(air?).
15) Runner: 05/28 to 07/20/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
16) R-12: 06/12/1943 Lost in a training accident off Key West Florida.
17) Grayling: 08/19 to 09/30/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Manila.
18) Pompano: 08/20 to 10/15/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
19) Cisco: 09/18 to 11/05/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea(air/sea?).
20) S-44: 10/07/1943 Sunk by gunfire one day out of Attu in the Aleutians.
21) Wahoo: 10/11/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the La Perouse Straits(air?).
22) Dorado: 10/12/1943 Presumed lost en route to Panama (friendly fire?).
23) Corvina: 11/16/1943 Presumed lost on patrol South of Truk (enemy sub?)
24) Sculpin: 11/19/1943 Scuttled near Gilbert Islands after being depth charged to surface and hit by gun fire.
25) Capelin: 11/17 to 12/09/1943 Presumed lost on patrol north of Celebes (mine?).

1944

26) Scorpion: 01/06 to 03/06/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?)
27) Grayback: 02/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea(air?).
28) Trout: 02/29/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off China.
29) Tullibee: 03/25/1944 Sunk by own torpedo North of Palau.
30) Gudgeon: 04/07 to 06/07/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Marianas(air/sea?).
31) Herring: 06/01/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Kuriles (shore battery).
32) Golet: 06/14/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
33) S-28: 07/04/1944 Sunk in a training accident off Hawaii.
34) Robalo: 07/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Palawan (aft battery explosion?).
35) Flier: 08/13/1944 Sunk by a mine South of Palawan.
36) Harder: 08/27/1944 Sunk by depth charges off west coast of Luzon.
37) Seawolf: 10/03/1944 Sunk by friendly fire off east coast of Samar.
38) Darter: 10/31/1944 Destroyed by gunfire from USS Nautilus after she ran aground on Bombay Shoals in the Palawan passage.*
39) Shark II: 10/24/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Luzon Strait.
40) Tang: 10/24/1944 Sunk by own torpedo off Formosa.
41) Escolar: 10/17 to 11/27/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?).
42) Albacore: 11/07/1944 Sunk by mine off Honshu.
43) Growler: 11/08/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off the Philippines.
44) Scamp: 11/08 to 12/21/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Saipan(air/sea?).

1945

45) Swordfish: 01/03 to 02/15/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Okinawa (mine?).
46) Barbel: 02/04/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea(air?).
47) Kete: 03/20 to 04/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol east of Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
48) Trigger: 03/24 to 05/01/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the East China Sea(air/sea?).
49) Snook: 04/08 to 05/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol near Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
50) Lagarto: 05/03/1945 Sunk by depth charges in the Gulf of Siam.
51) Bonefish: 06/08 to 07/30/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the Sea of Japan.
52) Bullhead: 08/06/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Bali(air)?.

JU_88

02-04-07, 05:37 AM

Cool - a little OT from SH4 - but here are all the losses for British submarines in WW2

In Date Order

Oxley (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)10.9.39 Sunk by accident off Norway. Mistaken for U-boat and torpedoed by HMS/M Triton.
Seahorse (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)7.1.40 Sunk in Heligoland Bight, North Sea, by 1st German Minesweeping Flotilla.
Undine (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page20.html)7.1.40 Sunk in Heligoland Bight, North Sea. Depth charged by German minesweepers.
Starfish (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page11.html)9.1.40Sunk in Heligoland Bight, North Sea. Depth charged by German minesweeper.
Thistle (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page15.html)10.4.40 Torpedoed and sunk off Skudenes, Norway, by German U-4.
Tarpon (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page14.html)14.4.40 Sunk by German minesweeper in North Sea.
Sterlet (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page11.html)18.4.40 Depth charged and sunk by German A/S trawlers, in Skagerrak
Unity (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page20.html)29.4.40 Sunk in collision with Norwegian ship SS Atle Jarl, off the River Tyne, in North Sea
Seal (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/seal.html)5.5.40 Surrendered off the Skaw, in Kattegat.
Grampus (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page2.html)13.6.40 Sunk off Port Augusta, Sicily, in Mediterranean, by Italian torpedo boats
Odin (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page4.html)14.6.40 Sunk in Ionian Sea, Mediterranean, by depth charge by Italian naval units.
Orpheus (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page4.html)26.6.40 Sunk by gunfire from Italian ship Strale in the Gulf of Taranto, in Mediterranean.
Shark (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/shark.html)6.7.40 Sunk off Norway. Attacked by German aircraft, sunk in tow.
Salmon (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/salmon.html)9.7.40 Sunk off Norway, presumably mined.
Phoenix (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)17.7.40 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off Sicily, in Mediterranean.
Thames (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page15.html)ca.23.7.40 Sunk off Norway, presumably mined.
Narwhal (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page4.html)1.8.40 Sunk off Norway, presumably mined.
Oswald (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page4.html)1.8.40 Rammed and sunk by Italian destroyer Vivaldi in Mediterranean
Spearfish (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page10.html)5.8.40 Torpedoed and sunk by torpedo from German U-34 off Norway
H49 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page3.html)18.10.40 Torpedoed and sunk by German E-boats off Texel, Dutch coast, in North Sea
Rainbow (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)19.10.40 Sunk in Mediterranean. Possibly by Italian s/m Enrico Toti by gunfire.
Triad (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page17.html)20.10.40 Sunk in Mediterranean. Possibly by Italian s/m Enrico Toti by gunfire.
Swordfish (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page13.html)7.11.40 Mined and sunk off Isle of Wight.
Regulus (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)6.12.40 Lost in Strait of Otranto, Mediterranean, cause unknown.
Triton (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/triton.html)18.12.40 Lost on patrol in lower Adriatic.
Snapper (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page10.html)12.2.41 Sunk in Bay of Biscay
Usk (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page22.html)3.5.41Mined and sunk off Cape Bon, Tunisia, Mediterranean
Undaunted (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page19.html)13.5.41Lost off Tripoli, Mediterranean, probably mined.
Umpire (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page19.html)19.7.41 Sunk in collision with British A/S trawler Peter Hendricks in North Sea
Union (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page20.html)22.7.41 Sunk in Mediterranean by Italian torpedo boat off Pantellaria.
Cachalot (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page2.html)4.8.41 Rammed and sunk by Italian torpedo boat Papa off Cyrenaica, in Mediterranean. Scuttled to avoid capture.
P33 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)20.8.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined off Tripoli.
P32 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)23.8.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined off Tripoli.
Tetrarch (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page15.html)2.11.41 Sunk in Mediterranean, believed mined in the Strait of Sicily.
Perseus (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)1.12.41 Hit mine and sunk off Cephalonia, Greece.
H31 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page3.html)24.12.41 Sunk in Bay of Biscay
Triumph (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/triumph.html)20.1.42 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined in Aegean Sea, off Milos.
Tempest (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page14.html)13.2.42 Attacked and sunk by Italian torpedo boat in Mediterranean
P38 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)25.2.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat in Mediterranean
P39 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)26.3.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta
P36 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page5.html)1.4.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta
Pandora (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)1.4.42 Bombed and sunk by aircraft at Malta
Upholder (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/upholder.html)14.4.42 Depth charged and sunk off Tripoli, in Mediterranean.
Urge (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page21.html)6.5.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off Tripoli, in Mediterranean
Olympus (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page4.html)8.5.42 Hit mine and sunk in swept channel leaving Malta.
P514 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page6.html)21.6.42 Mistaken for U-boat and rammed by minesweeper HMCS Georgian in Western Atlantic.
Thorn (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page15.html)6.8.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat Pegaso between Crete and Tripoli, in Mediterranean
Talisman (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page14.html)18.9.42 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined in Strait of Sicily.
Unique (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page20.html)24.10.42 Sunk in Atlantic, on passage from UK to Gibraltar.
Unbeaten (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page19.html)11.11.42 Sunk in Bay of Biscay, Atlantic, in error by Wellington of No 172 Sqdn RAF Coastal Command, 110nm SSW of Ushant.
Utmost (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page22.html)24.11.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian torpedo boat off west coast of Sicily.
P222 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page6.html)12.12.42 Sunk by Italian topedo boat off Naples, Mediterranean.
Traveller (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page17.html)12.12.42 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined in Gulf of Taranto.
P48 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page6.html)25.12.42 Depth charged and sunk by Italian corvettes off Zemba Island in Gulf of Tunis.
P311 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page6.html)8.1.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined north of Corsica.
Vandal (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page22.html)24.2.43 Sunk by accident in Firth of Clyde
Tigris (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page16.html)10.3.43Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined.
Thunderbolt (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page16.html)13.3.43 Depth charged and sunk by Italian A/S boat Cicogna off St.Vito, north of Sicily.
Turbulent (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/turbulent.html)23.3.43 Depth charged and sunk off Maddalena, Sardinia.
Regent (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/regent.html)16.4.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined.
P615 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page7.html)18.4.43 Torpedoed and sunk off West Africa by German U-123.
Splendid (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/splendid.html)21.4.43 Sunk in Mediterranean. Scuttled after depth charge attack by German destroyer off Corsica.
Sahib (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)24.4.43 Depth charged by Italian corvette Gabbiano, abandoned and scuttled, in Mediterranean
Untamed (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page21.html)30.5.43 Sunk during exercises off Scotland
Parthian (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)11.8.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined in southern Adriatic.
Saracen (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)18.8.43 Depth charged and sunk by Italian corvette off Bastia.
X8 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page24.html)17.9.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/tirpitz.html). (Lost en route).
X5 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/x5.html)22.9.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz
X6 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/x6.html)22.9.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz
X7 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/x7.html)22.9.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz
X10 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/x10.html)3.10.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz (Scuttled on return trip).
Usurper (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page22.html)11.10.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, presumed mined.
X9 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page24.html)15.10.43 Lost in attack on Tirpitz
Trooper (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page18.html)17.10.43 Lost in Aegean Sea, possibly mined.
Simoom (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page10.html)19.11.43 Sunk in Mediterranean, possibly mined off Kos, Greece.
X22 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page25.html)7.2.44 Sunk in collision in Pentland Firth
Graph (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page2.html) (Captured VIIC)
20.3.44Wrecked off coast of Scotland
Stonehenge (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/stonehenge.html)22.3.44 Sunk in Indian Ocean. Unknown reason. (New research - see Stonehenge (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/stonehenge.html))
Syrtis (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page13.html) 28.3.44 Mined and sunk off Norway
Sickle (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page9.html)18.6.44 Sunk, presumed mined, in the Antikithera Channel in Eastern Mediterranean.
Stratagem (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page12.html)22.11.44 Depth charged and sunk by Japanese patrol craft off Malacca.
Porpoise (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page8.html)19.1.45 Bombed and sunk by Japanese aircraft in Malacca Strait, Indian Ocean

Summary: Of the 82 losses above, a small number were 'constructive' losses - they were so badly damaged that they were 'written-off'. The total figure generally given is 78. Some were bombed at Malta and beached. The Untamed was raised and renamed Vitality. For the record, 46 submarines were lost in the Mediterranean - with around 1600 men.

Torplexed

02-04-07, 11:57 AM

What really stands out on that list of US subs sunk is the tiny percentage lost to aircraft. Contrast that with the HUGE contribution planes made to sinking U-Boats in the Atlantic. Close to 50% lost due to aircraft. Some of that is due to US subs having air search radar. But aircraft could have been instrumental in keeping subs kept down and submerged until convoys and ships could have passed. The Japanese really fell down on the job in this area. They had some of the best long-range patrol planes in the world with the Kawanashi (Emily and Mavis) flying boats. The had escort carriers too. But mainly used them for ferrying planes and training.

02-04-07, 12:23 PM

BellJack95

02-04-07, 01:25 PM

Good list showing a breakdown of US sub losses during the war. I believe the one sub lost to an air raid occured while in port. The Japanese did have a fairly good combined ASW effort. It took a little while for the Japanese to put together their ASW effort but it was effective. Japanese aircraft contributed to several US subs being lost during the war. For example post war analysis of Japanese naval records indicate the USS Bullhead and USS Grayback were lost to Japanese aircraft dropping depth charges. I am sure some of the other 26 subs lost to ASW activity can be traced to Japanese aircraft as well since the Japanese used both air and ships in the ASW role.

Concerning a perceived lack of danger faced by the Allied submariners against the Japanese; some people may be discounting the dangers faced because of the numbers of subs lost was vastly different in each theatre. It is true that 52 US Subs were lost from December 1941 thru August 1945, as compared to the 751 German subs that were lost from September 1939 thru May 1945, but I think you need to look at the type of missions being conducted, the combat theatre conditions, and the way each side used their submarines and you will find that it was dangerous for a submariner no matter where they served.

CCIP

02-04-07, 01:40 PM

It amazes me reading some of the posts over last few months just how much some people have shrug off some of the danger that the U.S submarine force faced. While it was not desperate situation faced by the german submarine force, 1 in 5 sailors in the U.S. submarine force did not come back. What they were being asked to do was dangerous and the Japanese had a special hatred for submariners.

Hear hear! I agree with you totally. I think diminishing anyone's effort and suffering in war is wrong, especially when they by and large conducted a massive campaign like that!

NEON DEON

02-04-07, 02:52 PM

Torplexed

02-04-07, 03:21 PM

I'm not trying to disparage the courage of USN submariners in any way. Just trying to point how the Pacific submarine war was in many respects so vastly different from the one taking place at the same time on the other side of the globe. Japan had a great assest in it's naval strike aircraft like the Bettys and flying boats, but like with their submarines never really thought before the war of their use other than striking or stalking the enemy battlefleet. The British were guilty of the same error for a few years too in neglecting Coastal Command in favor of Bomber Command. The British had time to catch on to how valuable planes were as sub killers or supressors. The Japanese did too eventually, but by then it was too late.

I think the salient feature in the Pacific is that unlike the Germans and British in World War One, the Americans had never prosecuted an submarine campaign before, and the Japanese had never had to defend against one. Which probably explains Clair Blair's statement in Silent Victory that the Pacific submarine war really didn't start to roll until 1944.

IRONxMortlock

02-04-07, 07:32 PM

Here's some further information about the USS Lagarto written by my technical wreck diving instructor, Steve Burton.

http://www.thaiwreckdiver.com/lagarto.htm
________
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AJ!

02-05-07, 12:31 PM

Well ASW and mines were a big problem for US subs in the pacific but lets not forget the fear US sub crews faced from Giant Squid attacks:nope:

Iron Budokan

02-05-07, 02:14 PM

U.S. subs were in a lot of danger, all right. A 20% casualty rate is nothing to sneeze at.

I-25

02-05-07, 02:24 PM

3 US subs lost to enemy subs?

well i know the corvina (#23 on the list) was sunk by the I-176, i read the whole debacle from the japanese side of the war in the book I boat capitan but the other 2?

dean_acheson

02-05-07, 03:59 PM

I don't think the Germans lost any boats to 'friendly fire,' unlike the fleet boats. Of course, I could be wrong about this, I just don't remember any U-Boats being sunk by a German DD or a JU-88....

CCIP

02-05-07, 04:06 PM

Sailor Steve

02-05-07, 04:14 PM

There were two German destroyers attacked by a Heinkel He-111 off Norway in 1940. One was bombed and sunk, the other ran into a minefield and also went down.

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/articles/feature4.html

dean_acheson

02-05-07, 04:17 PM

CCIP,
Yes, I probably should have stated that, even though the Germans maintained a certain air presence over the Bay of Biscay at times.
While I doubt modeled in the game, U.S. boat had to, at all times, be very weary of 'friendly fire.' Reading some of these first hand books and patrol reports on the Pacific war, it strike me that the U.S. boats had many many close calls from friendly forces.

dean_acheson

02-05-07, 04:18 PM

Steve, I should have said "U-Boats." (Even though I didn't know the story about the DDs...)

Sailor Steve

02-05-07, 04:21 PM

Oh, I knew you meant subs, I was just pointing out that everybody had their occassional mix-up.

Torplexed

02-05-07, 09:01 PM

U-557 was rammed and sunk by an Italian patrol boat which mistook her for a British submarine in the Med. Only incident I can think of offhand.

NEON DEON

02-05-07, 09:48 PM

3 US subs lost to enemy subs?

well i know the corvina (#23 on the list) was sunk by the I-176, i read the whole debacle from the japanese side of the war in the book I boat capitan but the other 2?

I just want to stress once again that these are estimates. That is why the method of how these subs met their end is sometimes followed by a “ ? ”.

As far as the other two US boats being sunk by enemy subs goes here is a bit more on how the estimate was given.

47) Kete: 03/20 to 04/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol east of Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).

Navper statement:

“There were a few mine-lines in the Nansei Shoto Chain, but since KETE was already east of the islands at the time of her last message on 20 March and was heading home, loss through a mine is considered highly improbable. It is now known that a number of enemy submarines were in the area through which KETE was required to pass enroute to Midway. RO-41 was sunk east of Okinawa by a U.S. destroyer on 31 March 1945, and two other Japanese submarines were sunk southeast of Okinawa near this date. Conditions attendant to KETE's loss suggest the likehood that one of these submarines might have torpedoed and sunk her and been unable to report the attack before being sunk.”

49) Snook: 04/08 to 05/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol near Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).

Navper statement:

“A number of enemy submarine contacts were reported in the vicinity of SNOOK's lifeguard station during the period in which her loss occurred. During April and May 1945, five Japanese submarines were sunk in the Nani;ei Shoto chain. The circumstances surrounding SNOOK's lose suggest the possibility that one of these lost submarines may have torpedoed her while she was surfaced during her lifeguard duties and it was not reported. It is known that such tactics were suggested to Japanese submarine commanders by their superiors.”

Tigrone

02-06-07, 01:31 AM

This was not a safe thing to do. Going close in and beating the enemy to downed pilots was one of the most dangerous duties of the war for submariners. 86 Submarines rescued more than 500 downed aviators from 1943 to 1945 including the first President Bush, who was then the youngest carrier pilot in the US Navy at age 18 (Grumman TBF). My father was picked up by Tigrone, close inshore, in May 1945. That was the trip Trigone broke the record for most rescues. Tigrone put in at Iwo to dump the Zoomies. Some of the pilots picked up by Tigrone were Australians, RAAF, who were flying P-51s off Iwo in support of B-29s over Japan.
http://www.submarinebooks.com/ZoomiesSubs1.jpg

NEON DEON

02-06-07, 07:16 PM

I don't think the Germans lost any boats to 'friendly fire,' unlike the fleet boats. Of course, I could be wrong about this, I just don't remember any U-Boats being sunk by a German DD or a JU-88....

In part, of course, because unlike the Americans, Germany had virtually nil air/surface presence in the theater. I really don't recall any incidents of this sort that I've read of.

There was one U-boat, U-222, which sunk with almost no survivors after being accidentally rammed by another U-boat
http://uboat.net/boats/u222.htm

U-99

"The boat, while inbound to Bergen with a sick crewman, sailed into the path of the German battlecruiser Scharnhorst and its scout plane mistook the boat for a British submarine attacking it causing damages that forced the boat back to Germany for repairs"

Looks like everyone was a bit jumpy when it came to submarines.;)

TheSatyr

02-08-07, 05:04 AM

You know the old saying."The only good submarine is a dead submarine"

I-25

02-08-07, 11:06 AM

Ro-41 got sunk on the 23rd not 31st.
but i still dont quite think jap subs got the snook and the kete...;)

22 March 1945:
320 miles E of Okinawa. LtCdr Honda reports sighting an enemy destroyer. It is the last message received from RO-41.

SE of Okinawa. That same day, Honda attempts to attack units of Vice Admiral (later Admiral) Marc A. Mitscher's (former CO of HORNET, CV-8) fast carrier Task Force 58.
LtCdr V. J. Soballe's USS HAGGARD (DD-555) is acting as a picket 12 miles ahead of the formation. At 2342, a contact is detected by radar on the surface at 25,000 yards. HAGGARD and UHLMANN (DD-687) are detached to investigate. The contact disappears but HAGGARD acquires the target by sonar and drops depth charges. Just before midnight, a submarine broaches off HAGGARD's port beam. As the destroyer's 40-mm. AA rakes the submarine's conning tower, LtCdr Soballe goes hard left rudder and rams the sub's starboard side abaft the conning tower.
23 March 1945:
After midnight, the submarine - probably RO-41 - sinks by the stern with all 82 hands at 22.57N, 132.19E.**

read more here http://www.combinedfleet.com/RO-41.htm

you guys sould really read the book I-boat capitan.

NEON DEON

02-09-07, 03:45 PM

you guys sould really read the book I-boat capitan.

I-25, where did you get your copy?

I would like to get a view from the other side.