Rundown On Qualifications

[Lanzfeld]

Just trying to get the latest on the 9 qualifications in the game and what they REALLY do. Please feel free to comment on what I write below as this is a quest for the truth dammit. I don't trust the manual at all.:know:

1. Helm: From what I have read it does absolutly NOTHING so it is a waste of a qual to use.:shifty:

2. Funk (S): Does this really improve the chances of your sonorman detecting sounds? I don't think it does anything for the radio (can still transmit and recieve messages) until maybe there is a radar?

3. Medical: This will heal a wounded man if in same compartment but does it also spped up fatigue recovery or is that just rumor?:dead:

4. Torpedo: I assume it speeds up reload time?

5. Machine: Now this one bothers me a little. We all know that if you dont have enough "green bar" in the engine rooms you will lose power. But that is no problem just put normal sailors in there and use your alloted qualifications for better things. Why give a guy a machine rating? Does it make the sub run faster? Is this for real or no?:hmm:

6. Repair. I assume that this speeds up repair of the boat which makes it very important? Please comment.

7. Gunner: Improves chance of hit with deck gun?:88)

8. Flak Gunner: Improves chance of hit with flak?:88)

9. Watch: Does this REALLY improve your chances of the watch spotting inbound ships and aircraft? I thought I read in NYGM somewhere that spotting wasnt related to this. Also, in real life the watch crew was 1 officer and 4 sailors. I tried this for awhile to try to be realistic but because the way that sailors recover from fatigue (efficiency) slower then the warrents I have switched to 2 warrents (watch quals) and two sailors per watch. What do you guys do?

Please give your knowledge!:rock:

[Brag]

In my experience: Machinists hrelp a lot (just watch the green bar above the compartment when you put different, qualified, experinced personnel into a compartment. Torpedomen will do the same. Have a gunner PO and gunner Watch officer and see how much more accurate your deck gun is. The repair specialities are critical have at least one officer and a PO with this speciality.

Yes, they do work!
I don't know about the helm. Don't seem to make much difference.
Flack is a waste because it doesn't work well--Dive!
I try to get them in this order: machinist, repair, gunner, repair, machinist, torpedo

[bigboywooly]

1. Helm: From what I have read it does absolutly NOTHING so it is a waste of a qual to use.:shifty: Yep seems a waste to me also

2. Funk (S): Does this really improve the chances of your sonorman detecting sounds? I don't think it does anything for the radio (can still transmit and recieve messages) until maybe there is a radar? It does help with both sonar and radar detection - a qualified operator is likely to hear\spot something quicker and further away

3. Medical: This will heal a wounded man if in same compartment but does it also spped up fatigue recovery or is that just rumor?:dead: Yes it does speed up fatigue recovery in my experiance

4. Torpedo: I assume it speeds up reload time? Yep - also needs less men to fill the green bar

5. Machine: Now this one bothers me a little. We all know that if you dont have enough "green bar" in the engine rooms you will lose power. But that is no problem just put normal sailors in there and use your alloted qualifications for better things. Why give a guy a machine rating? Does it make the sub run faster? Is this for real or no?:hmm: Doesnt make the sub run faster but as with the torp qual above - less men will fill the green bar so you can have both compartments filled if you want and if you lose any crew it doesnt affect the subs running

6. Repair. I assume that this speeds up repair of the boat which makes it very important? Please comment. Aye it does - as with all compartments the fuller the green bar the quicker things happen

7. Gunner: Improves chance of hit with deck gun?:88) Yep

8. Flak Gunner: Improves chance of hit with flak?:88) And yep again

9. Watch: Does this REALLY improve your chances of the watch spotting inbound ships and aircraft? I thought I read in NYGM somewhere that spotting wasnt related to this. Also, in real life the watch crew was 1 officer and 4 sailors. I tried this for awhile to try to be realistic but because the way that sailors recover from fatigue (efficiency) slower then the warrents I have switched to 2 warrents (watch quals) and two sailors per watch. What do you guys do? I usually have a watch qualified Officer and a couple of crew later on when can
IMHO it does help with spotting targets

[FIREWALL]

Hi Guys

Where is the best place to put repair po ?

[WinterMute]

Besides everything described by bigboywooly, all qualifications do matter if you are using a fatigue model. I am using RuB model and it really helps to have a qualified officer with Maschinist ability when you are trying to get back home after 30 day long patrol with exhausted crew. Being unable to complete enough workforce to keep diesel engines running can be a real pain in the ass. ;)

In situation like this even Helmsman ability can be useful.

BTW, I didn't check it, but it may be that having unfilled green bar at helms station affects diving, turning and accelerating times.

[Lanzfeld]

I think that the helm make no difference to turning and diving times. I have tested that. The helm position can be manned by the lowest sailors you have and never rest them. They will all be covered with an "E" yet the sub dives at the same time.

A real shame as this helm qualification would have been a perfect way to vary the crash dive times. Devs dropped the ball here.

I am using NYGM so the green bar means nothing to me. I guess that is why I didnt see a need for machine qual guys.

But even if the green bar in the engine room drops to half and the engines are still running then what is the advantage to having the green bar higher??? I mean....the engines are either running or they are not....right?

[bigboywooly]

I think that the helm make no difference to turning and diving times. I have tested that. The helm position can be manned by the lowest sailors you have and never rest them. They will all be covered with an "E" yet the sub dives at the same time.

A real shame as this helm qualification would have been a perfect way to vary the crash dive times. Devs dropped the ball here.

I am using NYGM so the green bar means nothing to me. I guess that is why I didnt see a need for machine qual guys.

But even if the green bar in the engine room drops to half and the engines are still running then what is the advantage to having the green bar higher??? I mean....the engines are either running or they are not....right?

True
But as your crew tire the bar will drop till it gets to a point the engines wont work
If you have a full bar with only half the compartmant full ( men with machine qual ) then it will run longer plus you will have more crew resting to swop over

[Lanzfeld]

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm: Thanks BigBoyWooly:up:

Wooly....do you use sailors or warrants for the watch...or a combination?

Anyone else have "top secret" knowledge of qualifications?

I do wish that NYGM had the green bars so I could measure the "completeness" of the compartment.

[bigboywooly]

A combination
At least 1 PO - 2 if i can manage it
Especially later in the war they can be a lifesaver

Yes you dont have the green bar in NYGM do you
Must be hard to gauge crew tiredness\performance levels
I suppose thats why its done that way

[Iron Budokan]

It's a bummer the helmsman qual is so useless. Obviously it's there for no other reason than immersion. It would have been a great idea, though, as someone pointed out, to have qualified helmsmen give you the top dive times as compared to unqualified seamen in the same place.

I didn't know you could have exhausted men in the command room and not have it matter at all. I guess I was just fooling myself that it did matter. Shame that it doesn't, but it's good to know, now I know where to stash three tired men while my qualified boys are getting rested up. Especially if it makes no difference to the operation of the compartment! :up:

[Steppenwolf]

Anyone else have "top secret" knowledge of qualifications?

I do wish that NYGM had the green bars so I could measure the "completeness" of the compartment.

Well this is hardly "secret" knowledge, but in term of gauging the "completeness" of a compartment, the qualifications work this way (I use the "English" ranks in game, so I will use them here too).

UNQUALIFIED CREWMEN anywhere
AND
QUALIFIED CREWMEN in compartments that do NOT MATCH their qualification:
Any Unqualified crewmen (seamen, PO or Officer), or a qualified man not in a compartment that matches his qualification, counts as 1 man.

NOTE: Technically there's a tiny difference between a seaman and a PO (as well as the ranks within type etc.), but its too small to be even worth considering here.

QUALIFIED WARRANT OFFICERS in compartments that match their qualification:
A Warrant Officer counts as 2 men
A Senior Warrant Officer counts as 3 men
A Chief Senior Warrant officer counts as 4 men

QUALIFIED OFFICERS in compartments that match their qualification:
An Officer counts as 1 man, but multiplies the effectiveness of everyone in the compartment (including himself) by the following:
Sub-Lieutenant, - 1.5 times the men in the compartment
Lieutenant Jr., - 2 times the men in the compartment
Lieutenant Sr., - 3 times the men in the compartment

NOTE: An officer on the bridge applies his multiplier to the Bridge, The Deck gun and The Flak Gun compartments simultaneously (If he has qualifications in those areas).

So having the following combinations in a compartment are equivalent:
8 seaman (1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 8)
1 Qualified Chief Senior Warrant Officer, 2 Qualified Warrant Officers (4+2+2 = 8).
3 seaman, 1 Qualified Lieutenant Jr. ( 1+1+1+1 * 2 = 8)
1 Qualified Senior Warrant Officer, 1 Qualified Lieutenant Jr. (3+1 * 2 = 8)
etc.


These all scale down with the amount of fatigue, so a seaman with 50% fatigue functions like half a man. A Qualified Chief Senior Warrant Officer functions like 2 men etc.

[Zero Niner]

Does the faster fatigue recovery work only for those resting in the same compartment as the medic?

Similarly, if I put the medic in say the engine room, does it mean that fatigue happens more slowly? :hmm:

[Lanzfeld]

Great post Steppenwolf!

Does anyone ever put less then the max amount of guys on watch....even if you have max green bar with, say, 3 guys up there? I ask this because the lookouts are looking different directions so you want all quadrants covered dont you? Or does it not matter?

[Iron Budokan]

No, the quadrants don't matter, sadly. But I sometimes do have less than a full green bar for my watch, but when I do I'm often up there myself so it's okay. At night, however, I let my watch crew do the job...they eat more carrots than I do. :yep:

[Mush Martin]

I find all of it usefull and informative and it will help a little
with one of my projects.

as I recall from my early days there is a working efficiency
curve in the control room and by implication
I have always believed controlrooms efficiency was
improved by the presence of personell with the helm
qualification, I have always maintained at least two
helm qualified officers in the control room since the
beginning because of that.
you can also put qualified po's in the crew spots with repair and
med qual's to help overall efficiency.

What I would actually like to know is this

is there any point in loading a room up once the green
bar is maxed, that is, is there anymore potential for
efficiency improvement beyond that ?
either naturally in the game or by ability
to mod it.

the point was raised elsewere earlier this week about
how long it takes the electrics to engage in a dive
is this type of characteristic effected by crew efficiency?
the person who raised the issue of motor change time
implied that even with electric and diesel rooms full
there was no change in the time it took for electrics
to engage.
MM:|\\

[Lanzfeld]

Hi Mush,

I was, funny enough, the guy who started the engine room thread as well. In my testing of the changeover of motors during a crash dive I found it is always the same. It does not matter greenbar or crew placement ahead of time. It is always 10 seconds. That is 10 seconds from RPM's zero to RPM's spool up again.

Also....what you thought about control room curve I have seen no evidence of. I assume you are talking about dive time or depth keeping? Please explain because I want to believe!

As far as loading past the max greenbar in a compartment goes I think, as discussed here in this thread, the only benefit is that as your crewmen get tired and the greenbar goes down it will stay maxed out longer. I am guessing at this.

[Steppenwolf]

I've tried loading the engine, helm and torpedo compartments well over the max greenbar limit and never noticed any improvements beyond having the bar at 100%. Don't know about the others.

Agree with your observations on these compartments:
Helm - Seems to make no difference. Tried timing turning rates and no difference. I THINK I tried timing rate of depth changes and didn't get a difference there either.
Engines - Seem to function strictly as On or Off. Tested max speeds and fuel efficency, no difference.
Torpedo Room - Affects loading speed.

[Brag]

Hi Mush,

I was, funny enough, the guy who started the engine room thread as well. In my testing of the changeover of motors during a crash dive I found it is always the same. It does not matter greenbar or crew placement ahead of time. It is always 10 seconds. That is 10 seconds from RPM's zero to RPM's spool up again.

Also....what you thought about control room curve I have seen no evidence of. I assume you are talking about dive time or depth keeping? Please explain because I want to believe!

As far as loading past the max greenbar in a compartment goes I think, as discussed here in this thread, the only benefit is that as your crewmen get tired and the greenbar goes down it will stay maxed out longer. I am guessing at this.

I think the green bar when full represents 100% efficiency.

[Iron Budokan]

Right, it does, but what he's saying (I think) is if having more men than necessary to max out the green bar makes that green bar stay maxed out longer.

In other words, if you have 4 guys who max out the torp room or the same four guys plus even more torp qualified guys, does the green bar stay green longer the second time or is it always the same? Dunno.

[Mush Martin]

Hi Mush,

I was, funny enough, the guy who started the engine room thread as well. In my testing of the changeover of motors during a crash dive I found it is always the same. It does not matter greenbar or crew placement ahead of time. It is always 10 seconds. That is 10 seconds from RPM's zero to RPM's spool up again.

Also....what you thought about control room curve I have seen no evidence of. I assume you are talking about dive time or depth keeping? Please explain because I want to believe!

As far as loading past the max greenbar in a compartment goes I think, as discussed here in this thread, the only benefit is that as your crewmen get tired and the greenbar goes down it will stay maxed out longer. I am guessing at this.

No I see it now your probably right

in doing supercrew I had an officer at everystation which does help.
just not the control room officer in each room had primary qualification
as well as a med and an repair qual.
(this does help repair times.)
by the same token keeping a qualified medic and repair PO's in the control room crew slots will help damage control.

[WinterMute]

Hey, but what about an Efficiency? In the manual on page 23 there is an info that with highly qualified crew the Efficiency can reach high level. I've never managed to do this, the highest level of the Efficiency I've ever seen was normal. So maybe at some point, say when providing 300% of required workforce to a compartment, there is a difference in diving/turning/engine switching times?

[TarJak]

Great thread Lanzfeld!:up:

One thing that the Gunner and Flak gunner quals does do is speed up reload times, at least without SH3Commander which lets you set reloads for the DG at least.