Dud Torpedo Percent

[Rykaird]

I'm doing the torpedo training in the Naval Academy, but I'm struggling to get all five ships because of the sheer number of what I believe to be dud torpedos.

I have GWX installed but no other mods. I'm using "M" for the trigger, fast for the speed, all other settings standard.

I'm getting about 50% duds, sometimes three duds in a row. They strike the hull of the ship, and just bounce off. I'm shooting typically from 1000 to 1500 meters out.

Is this failure rate to be expected? Or am I doing something to encourage this high failure rate? Thanks for the help. I hope they give me some shore leave after I flunk out of the Academy so I'll have time to have a chat with the folks building these precision German instruments of war.

[WOD]

I'm doing the torpedo training in the Naval Academy, but I'm struggling to get all five ships because of the sheer number of what I believe to be dud torpedos.

I have GWX installed but no other mods. I'm using "M" for the trigger, fast for the speed, all other settings standard.

I'm getting about 50% duds, sometimes three duds in a row. They strike the hull of the ship, and just bounce off. I'm shooting typically from 1000 to 1500 meters out.

Is this failure rate to be expected? Or am I doing something to encourage this high failure rate? Thanks for the help. I hope they give me some shore leave after I flunk out of the Academy so I'll have time to have a chat with the folks building these precision German instruments of war.

Do u use magnetic pistol or impact?
If magnetic set torpedo depth 0,5-1m deeper then the keeldepth of the target is.
If using impact....be sure that the angle on bow is between 85° and 95°....best is 90°

[Steppenwolf]

You're doing something to encourage this high failure rate.:)

The ship's "Draft" is found in the Ship Recognition Manual. If you click on the word "Ship" on the notepad in the upper right, while you have the target locked in your crosshairs, the Ship Recognition Manual will automatically open to that type of ship. Draft is listed on that page.

"M" or Magnetic triggers are designed to be fired UNDER the target and are triggered by the metal hull while the torpedo passes under the ship. If you hit the hull, as you've noticed, nothing usually happens. If firing with this type of trigger, set the torpedo's depth to .5-1 meter below the Draft of the ship (i.e. 6.5-7 meters if the Draft is 6 meters). Any higher and you risk hitting the hull. Much lower and you may pass too far under the ship to activate the trigger. This gets much trickier when the seas are rough as the ship is bouncing up and down in the waves, but in the torpedo tutorial everythings pretty calm. Main advantage is that you can hit the ship from any angle.

"I" or Impact triggers are the ones designed to go off if you hit the hull. If firing this type of trigger, set the torpedo depth to about 1/2-2/3 of the draft (i.e. 3 or 4 meters if the Draft is 6 meters). If you aim much lower you risk bouncing off the rounded part of the hull (Ship's hulls round off as you near the hull's bottom). If you aim too high, the hole you open may not be as effective (It spends time out of the water as the ship rocks back and forth and doesn't flood the ship as fast, or even worse, be above the waterline entirely). Main disadvantage is that the torpedo must strike at an angle no more than 30 degrees horizontally as well (The closer to 0 degrees the better) or it will probably glance off the ship. Main advantage is that there is a better chance of hitting something critical, like the engine room or a fuel bunker (But you can worry about aiming specifically for those later).

[Rykaird]

Thanks very much, gentlemen, for the explanation. Unsurprisingly, I am doing multiple things wrong - slamming magnetic pistol torps into the hull, and also not paying enough attention to the angle when setting the pistol to "impact."

Sigh. Blaming the incompetent wrench monkey at the torpedo factory was so much easier.

Gilligan! Stock up on sausages, we're going back to school!

[AndyW]

I'm getting about 50% duds, sometimes three duds in a row. They strike the hull of the ship, and just bounce off. I'm shooting typically from 1000 to 1500 meters out.

Well, if you think that's many: U-64 Lorentz (Type IX boot) 8th patrol August-October 1940. The "1940 torpedo-crisis" hit me very badly:

All 21 Torpedos dud, not one single explosion! :dead: At least 10 of them were 100% good shots (I cheated with external views). I'm not talking about doing anything wrong (distance, depth and impact angle), but plain and simple about duds.

You can imagine how pissed off and sarcastic I was after my last torp failed and I had to cruise home with 21 fired torps and zero tons sunk in my ship log. :damn: I though this is maybe a bit too rough and put off the "dud torpedo" option for the following 1941 patrols.

Cheers,
AndyW

[Warmonger]

I for one think that there are way too few duds in the game. About 95% of the torps explode as intended even at not really good angles...:hmm:

[melnibonian]

If I remember correctly the percentage of dud torpedoes is around 6%.

[danexpat]

Is 6% dud rate the consensus among experienced players?

[Gargamel]

Historically, 6% sounds extremely low, early war. The invasion of Norway, few, If any, torpedos were able to sink a target due to failures. Prien (Krestchmer? I forgot which one) had lined up over 100k tons of cruisers and troop transports, TIED TO DOCKS! He fired every eel and not one detonated. Multiple shots at capital ships (IIRC) were fired and missed, presumably due to duds.

[kroll688]

I play GWX and use manual targeting, I use impact pistols the vast majority of the time. I maneuver for most shots at 90 AOB on impact and have very few duds, approx 5% sounds about right. The few times I have used magnetic the failure seems much higher, but I think usually I have misses rather than duds when there is no detonation.

[Tinman764]

I don't think I've ever had a torpedo fail, other than the low percentage shots that may or may not have been due to bad impact angles etc
*edit* thats with GWX3

[Sailor Steve]

Historically, 6% sounds extremely low, early war.
SH3 gives very few duds. If torpedoes aren't exploding you're doing something wrong.

SH4 'fixed' this. :rotfl2:

[Obltn Strand]

Three torpedoes to finish off a stationary target aob 90 at 1000m. First two failed explode. Impact pistols, early -42. Should I try lottery tommorow?:har:



SH4 'fixed' this. :rotfl2:

Is there a mod somewhere to 'fix' it in SH3?

[Jimbuna]

Go to the options window and de-select realistic torpedoes.

[Obltn Strand]

Go to the options window and de-select realistic torpedoes.

I meant more duds.

[desirableroasted]

Is 6% dud rate the consensus among experienced players?

This is actually a very useful thread, because, as far as I can see, there is little more than anecdotal claims on the subject of torpedo reliability.

I assume "dud" means a perfectly aimed torpedo, in other words, failure on the torp's part, not mine.

If so, then 6% sounds right for magnetics in GWX, at least until 1941, when it seems to improve. And it is always premature detonation.

However, I use magnetics only when the distance/sea state permits to avoid premature detonations (for example, in rough seas, I use mag only at 1000 meters or less). If I used them in all situations, the premature detonation rate would certainly be higher in 39-40.

As you can see, I don't know (and don't want to know) whether GWX rolls the dice on a magnetic at launch or does so at intervals or there is a condition that set the premature detonation.

With an impact shot, I have never, to my knowledge, had a dud. Or at least nothing that could not be plausibly ascribed to sea state (my depth is correct, but the bow rose just before impact, etc) or being "made" by the target.

[danexpat]

This is actually a very useful thread, because, as far as I can see, there is little more than anecdotal claims on the subject of torpedo reliability. I assume "dud" means a perfectly aimed torpedo, in other words, failure on the torp's part, not mine. If so, then 6% sounds right for magnetics in GWX, at least until 1941, when it seems to improve. And it is always premature detonation.

I would be fine with 6% for impact torpedoes but estimates of magnetic pistol (both G7a and G7e) premature detonation I've read put pre-Norway failure rate at 20% - 40%. I always home in on "data" that looks suspiciously anecdotal too! :know:

As you can see, I don't know (and don't want to know) whether GWX rolls the dice on a magnetic at launch or does so at intervals or there is a condition that set the premature detonation.


I agree with you. Having a sense of playing Russian roulette with magnetic settings -- but without knowing the true odds -- adds to the gameplay experience for me also. So I want to know whether it is within historical parameters but also don't want to know.

[Jimbuna]

So I want to know whether it is within historical parameters but also don't want to know.

Then I ain't gonna tell yas :DL

[desirableroasted]

Then I ain't gonna tell yas :DL

But I do want to know this....

Are "duds" modeled for impact pistols? Because, as I have said, I cannot recall ever having a "dud" impact-pistoled torpedo. Yes, I have had failures, but (since I do use external cam) I know they are always due to environment or a mistake in my firing solution.

[Jimbuna]

But I do want to know this....

Are "duds" modeled for impact pistols? Because, as I have said, I cannot recall ever having a "dud" impact-pistoled torpedo. Yes, I have had failures, but (since I do use external cam) I know they are always due to environment or a mistake in my firing solution.

If my memory serves me correctly and to the best of my knowledge and understanding (not a bad potential disclaimer that LOL).....'duds' are modeled across the board regardless of what they are set to detonation wise.

[LeChuck]

all i know is i'm sick of watching fish clank off hull.

[iambecomelife]

But I do want to know this....

Are "duds" modeled for impact pistols? Because, as I have said, I cannot recall ever having a "dud" impact-pistoled torpedo. Yes, I have had failures, but (since I do use external cam) I know they are always due to environment or a mistake in my firing solution.

No; unlike in SHIV, the only dud torpedoes in SHIII are premature explosions and hits that strike the hull at too shallow an angle. This is one of the major faults with SHIII's portrayal of ordnance.

[maillemaker]

You can get dud hits for bad angles. But the angle can happen in two ways. Either your angle to the ship's heading is to far from 90, or you hit too low on the ships hull, hitting where it curves.

Duds for magnetics are from premature explosions, which nearly always happen at 1000m or more.

Steve

[Missing Name]

Duds are frustrating.

But it's more frustrating if it's your fault, such as accidentally setting a torp to impact only and watch as it passes exactly 1 meter below the hull...

[desirableroasted]

Duds for magnetics are from premature explosions, which nearly always happen at 1000m or more.

Steve

That is, if they are going to premature, it is usually on a 1000m+ run.

[Osmium Steele]

But I do want to know this....

Are "duds" modeled for impact pistols? Because, as I have said, I cannot recall ever having a "dud" impact-pistoled torpedo.

Until last night, I would have agreed with you.

While raiding Dunkirk, an auxiliary cruiser and LST were moored outside the break water. I lined up at 87 deg AOB on the stationary cruiser. The AOB on the LST was not optimal due to its odd angle pierside. Light mist and 6 knot winds, so sea state not an issue.

The only time I ever used magnetics in a port raid, they all failed, which I half expected as many large ships barely clear the bottom when pierside.

I set all 4 fish to impact and 2 meter depth. Fired tube 2 at the LST, and a salvo of tubes 1, 3, and 4 at the cruiser.

I lowered the scope, and beat feet outta there, watching the fish run in on the TDC. The first fish to reach the cruiser, aimed dead center, bounced off the hull, the remaining fish, each at slightly higher and lower angles, detonated.

This should be simple enough, though tedious, to test.

A line of targets at 2000m, 90 AOB. Fire a full salvo, reload. Fire stern tube/s while reloading bow tubes. Record the results. Reload the mission when you run out of ammo.

What would be a reasonable sample size? 1000 shots?

[Arsenius]

So, in GWX3 gold i've had half of my torpedoes dud in march of 1940 is something normal?

from the duds half dont detonated and the other half passed below the target even with right depth settings

[Fifi]

So, in GWX3 gold i've had half of my torpedoes dud in march of 1940 is something normal?

from the duds half dont detonated and the other half passed below the target even with right depth settings

If you are using Hsie patch, and have torpedo fix activated, you can adjust the % of duds in Hsie.ini file (section torpedo fix) to your liking.
Perso i have reduced hsie settings, because i also found way too much bad torpedoes (even setting them to the correct depth).
Playing type II with only 5 torps, and get all 5 bad is a bit too much to my taste.

[Anvar1061]

So, in GWX3 gold i've had half of my torpedoes dud in march of 1940 is something normal?

from the duds half dont detonated and the other half passed below the target even with right depth settings

This simulates a real "torpedo crisis". This has been the case historically.

[Fifi]

This simulates a real "torpedo crisis". This has been the case historically.

Yes, but...in the torpedo crisis, i don’t believe absolutely all the torp were crap.
Problem with this fix is random is taken in account, and random can be really bad.