Hillary Clinton

[STEED]

Hillary Clinton launches White House bid (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/20/nclinton120.xml)

A women president :o No I can not see this happing.

[geetrue]

Lord, have mercy ...:cry:

[XabbaRus]

What do you guys think about this Obama guy?

hmm That would be amusing. Then we in the UK would laugh at you even more seeing as we got rid of ours.

[Chaotic42]

Hillary Clinton launches White House bid (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/20/nclinton120.xml)

A women president :o No I can not see this happing.

Not to stir the pot, but what would a female president do to our relations with mysogonistic countries?

[STEED]

Not to stir the pot, but what would a female president do to our relations with mysogonistic countries?

Well that's us out of the running we voted in Margret Thatcher three times. :yep:

[waste gate]

Not to stir the pot, but what would a female president do to our relations with mysogonistic countries?

Well that's us out of the running we voted in Margret Thatcher three times. :yep:

Perhaps I am wrong but the electorate in the UK voted for a party. Margret Thatcher was elected leader by the party.

If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time. Let me know.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Not to stir the pot, but what would a female president do to our relations with mysogonistic countries?
Well that's us out of the running we voted in Margret Thatcher three times. :yep:


Dont even get me started.

[baggygreen]

Hey, thatcher at least had the guts to take back the falklands. Today, almost all leadership candidates in any country would say oh ok, we'll embargo your goods for 6 months then let you off the hook.

[tycho102]

Well, I don't like any of them. However, I have found that most people are completely apathetic to politics up until they are physically inconvinenced on a consistent basis.

I'll vote for Hillary. She'll get this country run firmly into the ground, and then we might have a shot at getting significant Libertarian positions in the Congress. I don't always agree with the Libertarians, but there's a heck lot more than Reps or Dems. About the only good thing she can do is pass "Net Neutrality" laws, and I don't even think she'll do it because the corporations will shift gears and start bribing her before the vote.

http://caxton.stockton.edu/Meister72/picture$271

[STEED]

Dont even get me started.

How would you know? You were wearing a nappy at the time. :rotfl:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Dont even get me started.
How would you know? You were wearing a nappy at the time. :rotfl:


That doesnt mean I cant dislike her :P

[waste gate]

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.

[STEED]

Dont even get me started.
How would you know? You were wearing a nappy at the time. :rotfl:


That doesnt mean I cant dislike her :P

Yes it dose. ;)

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Does not. She had an afro. :rotfl:

[STEED]

Does not. She had an afro. :rotfl:

Poor excuse, any more of this and I will come to Ross-on-Wye with my cricket bat and give you six of the best. :yep:

[waste gate]

six of the best.

Most guys would exgagerate and give themselves eight or nine.

[geetrue]

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.

You forgot the dishes with the Presidential seal that were missing from Air Force One, after
Mr. and Mrs Clinton were flown home to upper state New York, after
they left the White House.

[MadMike]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Yours, Mike

[waste gate]

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.

You forgot the dishes with the Presidential seal that were missing from Air Force One, after
Mr. and Mrs Clinton were flown home to upper state New York, after
they left the White House.

Like I said the onslaught would/will be merciless.

[August]

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.
You forgot the dishes with the Presidential seal that were missing from Air Force One, after
Mr. and Mrs Clinton were flown home to upper state New York, after
they left the White House.
Like I said the onslaught would/will be merciless.
I think that's the plan. I believe her candidacy is designed to be a lightning rod, drawing Republican attention and effort away from the other Dem runners.

[Tchocky]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Yours, Mike

Yeah, she's a real commie. :roll:

[STEED]

Sounds like the knives are being sharpen up here. I just can not see her in the White House she dose not look like she's up to the job. If she is a communist wouldn't she better standing in Russia, China, Cuba or North Korea. ;)

[Chaotic42]

Yeah, she's a real commie. :roll:

Here are just a handful of examples from her Senate site. She's a socialist.

-
I was also an original co-sponsor of S. 2370 in the 108th Congress, which would raise the federal minimum wage to $7 an hour.
-

-
I once again co-sponsored legislation to extend the Milk Income Loss Contract (MILC) Program in the 109th Congress, as I have done in previous Congresses. MILC is set to expire in September of 2005, which would result in there being no safety net for New York dairy farmers in times of fluctuating prices.
-

-
This would provide a legal process for adjusting the status of certain immigrant agricultural workers and would also provide rights and protections to individuals who are currently undocumented agricultural workers
-

-
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton announced today that she had joined with a group of her colleagues in urging Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to temporarily halt the deportation of Haitian nationals. Given the humanitarian disaster caused by Hurricane Jeanne and the desperate conditions facing the country and its people, the Senators last week asked Secretary Ridge to use his authority to grant Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Haitian nationals. Temporary Protected Status has been granted in similar circumstances in the past. The Prime Minister of Haiti, Gerard Latortue, has already called on the United States Government to grant such an authority.
-

-
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has joined with fellow Senate Democrats in urging the Department of Homeland Security to issue a formal statement reassuring immigrant victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina that they can seek help from relief agencies without fear of deportation or being turned over to immigration authorities. In a letter to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the Senators asked that in light of the magnitude of the tragedy caused by the hurricanes, the ongoing need for relief, and the continuous risk to public health and safety involved, such an assurance should be issued to the hurricane’s immigrant victims as soon as possible.
-

[Tchocky]

Here are just a handful of examples from her Senate site. She's a socialist.
You're aware of the difference between socialism and communism, yeah?

She's a commie!
"No, she's not"
"Yes she is, she's a socialist!"

Come on, you're better than that.


Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton announced today that she had joined with a group of her colleagues in urging Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to temporarily halt the deportation of Haitian nationals. Given the humanitarian disaster caused by Hurricane Jeanne and the desperate conditions facing the country and its people, the Senators last week asked Secretary Ridge to use his authority to grant Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Haitian nationals. Temporary Protected Status has been granted in similar circumstances in the past. The Prime Minister of Haiti, Gerard Latortue, has already called on the United States Government to grant such an authority.
-

-
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has joined with fellow Senate Democrats in urging the Department of Homeland Security to issue a formal statement reassuring immigrant victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina that they can seek help from relief agencies without fear of deportation or being turned over to immigration authorities. In a letter to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the Senators asked that in light of the magnitude of the tragedy caused by the hurricanes, the ongoing need for relief, and the continuous risk to public health and safety involved, such an assurance should be issued to the hurricane’s immigrant victims as soon as possible.

Are you honestly showcasing these as being socialist? (Or communist, which is it?) They strike me as humanitarian rather than anything else. As for the others, many countries have minumum wage laws and agricultural subsidies without being socialist in nature.

[Chaotic42]

Here are just a handful of examples from her Senate site. She's a socialist.
You're aware of the difference between socialism and communism, yeah?

She's a commie!
"No, she's not"
"Yes she is, she's a socialist!"
I said here are some examples. She's a socialist. I didn't say she was a Communist. However, you can't totally separate the two. They are intertwined:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
-
In the late 19th century the terms "socialism" and "communism" were often used interchangeably. (Encarta) However, Marx and Engels argued that communism would not emerge from capitalism in a fully developed state, but would pass through a "first phase" in which most productive property was owned in common, but with some class differences remaining. The "first phase" would eventually give way to a "higher phase" in which class differences were eliminated, and a state was no longer needed. Lenin frequently used the term "socialism" to refer to Marx and Engels' supposed "first phase" of communism and used the term "communism" interchangeably with Marx and Engels' "higher phase" of communism.
-



Are you honestly showcasing these as being socialist? (Or communist, which is it?) They strike me as humanitarian rather than anything else. As for the others, many countries have minumum wage laws and agricultural subsidies without being socialist in nature.
Everyone has to set their own definitions as far as what is right and wrong. Her ideas would seem to fit a socialist viewpoint.

From Dictionary.com:
-
Socialism:
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
-

Now to me, her ideas fit right into that definition. I think that we need some social programs (Public education for one), but she goes off of the deep end in my opinion.

[CCIP]

As an actual socialist, I can say that Hillary only looks left-wing against the disturbingly right-slanted American political scene. It's all a matter of relativity.

That said, I personally don't think she's a particularly good candidate.

[edjcox]

The truth is I won't vote for her as she will do naught but divide and divided we fall.

Obama is interesting but lacking in true track record and impact on National level politics.

I think we will see the emergence of a Democratic leader very soon but as of now my divining rod fails me.

Let's see what Gels over the next few months and see who and how we get out of " The Big Muddy". When that happens and the brains behind the solution evidences himself/herself then we will have a better idea as to where the country can find Leadership.

:hmm:

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Yours, Mike

Amen, brother :)
My fondest wish is she will get the Dem nom... best way to ensure a Republican stays in the White House. Hopefully a better one than we have now.

We don't need any more socialism in the US, we have more than enough.

[August]

Like i said on the previous page. I believe her candidacy is designed to be a lightning rod, diverting Republican attention away from the other Dem candidates.

[Yahoshua]

I know she'll be coming for my guns. And she'll be getting them.......bullets first.:stare:

[nikimcbee]

Lord, have mercy ...:cry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTMQJi_wDi8

...getting red flag out.
...pictures of Lenin.

Changing first name to "Comrade".

...giving up all rights to "The Village"

[nikimcbee]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Yours, Mike

Amen, brother :)
My fondest wish is she will get the Dem nom... best way to ensure a Republican stays in the White House. Hopefully a better one than we have now.

We don't need any more socialism in the US, we have more than enough.

Isn't it true comrade Stevens, that you speak Russian and have played the akula in DW?

[Iceman]

August may be right..I think the Dems are scratching there asses,,, lol ..looking for someone to put up into the limelight...slim pickings there :)...

I think Republicans will move towards someone with alot of XP in office and actually "Served" in the military and is pretty well seasoned now, who all Republicans can get on the same page with...AZ Senator John McCain.:up:

[The Avon Lady]

This thread should be merged with this existing one (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103761).

Hillary doesn't deserve her own. :p

[Bort]

Tee Hee!
I love seeing people overreact to politicians like Clinton that they have worked up to be some sort of demon in their minds as an easy way of venting their anger/frustration towards those that do not share their views. Having reviewed Hillary's political history- I can determine a few things, one she is not a communist, wishing to make all private businesses state owned would make her a communist, wanting to raise the minimum wage makes her left of center on the US political spectrum(note that I said US because by the measure of many other states her stances on most issues would likely be considered right wing) but definitely not a communist. Second, while Ms. Clinton does support stricter gun control (IMO not as strict as I would like), I cannot find any instance where she has declared her plans to completely end private gun ownership in the United States. In short these outburst of emotion directed towards Ms. Clinton seem premature, no doubt if she is nominated (which I don't think will happen, nor do I want to happen because I believe there are better candidates) the RNC and whoever opposes her will do their very best to try to paint Clinton in such a light and may well succeed, but likely at the cost of the fact that Hillary is not a Communist or a Socialist or a Fascist or any other sort of extremist.
I think Republicans will move towards someone with alot of XP in office and actually "Served" in the military and is pretty well seasoned now, who all Republicans can get on the same page with...AZ Senator John McCain.:up:

There are plenty of Republicans that cannot stand McCain or at very least dislike him for refusing to toe the party line. He failed in his last run for president against Bush for that and many other largely illegitimate reasons. I also think that even if McCain can make it trough the primaries, his base, the center of the American political spectrum may well abandon him for failing to stand up to the administration on several instances relating to the war. In short he may be seen as too independent by Republicans and not independent enough by non party members and Democrats that have supported him in the past (like me, for instance).

[Fish]

Tee Hee!
I love seeing people overreact to politicians like Clinton that they have worked up to be some sort of demon in their minds as an easy way of venting their anger/frustration towards those that do not share their views. Having reviewed Hillary's political history- I can determine a few things, one she is not a communist, wishing to make all private businesses state owned would make her a communist, wanting to raise the minimum wage makes her left of center on the US political spectrum(note that I said US because by the measure of many other states her stances on most issues would likely be considered right wing) but definitely not a communist. Second, while Ms. Clinton does support stricter gun control (IMO not as strict as I would like), I cannot find any instance where she has declared her plans to completely end private gun ownership in the United States. In short these outburst of emotion directed towards Ms. Clinton seem premature, no doubt if she is nominated (which I don't think will happen, nor do I want to happen because I believe there are better candidates) the RNC and whoever opposes her will do their very best to try to paint Clinton in such a light and may well succeed, but likely at the cost of the fact that Hillary is not a Communist or a Socialist or a Fascist or any other sort of extremist.
I think Republicans will move towards someone with alot of XP in office and actually "Served" in the military and is pretty well seasoned now, who all Republicans can get on the same page with...AZ Senator John McCain.:up:

There are plenty of Republicans that cannot stand McCain or at very least dislike him for refusing to toe the party line. He failed in his last run for president against Bush for that and many other largely illegitimate reasons. I also think that even if McCain can make it trough the primaries, his base, the center of the American political spectrum may well abandon him for failing to stand up to the administration on several instances relating to the war. In short he may be seen as too independent by Republicans and not independent enough by non party members and Democrats that have supported him in the past (like me, for instance).

Yeah, your right, she should be in a right wing party here in europe.

[XabbaRus]

Hey but going back to Maggie, she was really a man right?

[XabbaRus]

Oh and I woldn't say no to being to Hillary what Monica was to Bill, just thing of teh millions of pounds to be made on book deals the lot....



This is a joke btw.

[STEED]

Hey but going back to Maggie, she was really a man right?

A bloke in drag. :o




Oh and I woldn't say no to being to Hillary what Monica was to Bill, just thing of teh millions of pounds to be made on book deals the lot....



This is a joke btw.

Cigar? ;)

[Takeda Shingen]

This thread should be merged with this existing one (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103761).

Hillary doesn't deserve her own. :p

This thread regards a specific and current event regarding a seperate candidate with a seperate political agenda. By my estimation, merging is not required. As such, this thread will stand indvidually.

[The Avon Lady]

This thread should be merged with this existing one (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103761).

Hillary doesn't deserve her own. :p

This thread regards a specific and current event regarding a seperate candidate with a seperate political agenda. By my estimation, merging is not required. As such, this thread will stand indvidually.
Then you are doomed!

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7254/redbutton6np.jpg

[geetrue]

This thread should be merged with this existing one (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103761).

Hillary doesn't deserve her own. :p

This thread regards a specific and current event regarding a seperate candidate with a seperate political agenda. By my estimation, merging is not required. As such, this thread will stand indvidually.


Yea! I vote all moderators to be male ... :cool:


I don't want to argue about her beliefs ... I just want to point out one big item and wait for a better choice
to show up Dem or Republican ... That item is simply this:


"America don't need "No" mommy"



edited: took the word stinking out so it would make a better bumper sticker :lol:

[Takeda Shingen]

Yea! I vote all moderators to be male ... :cool: (I just noticed there wasn't any nail polish on that finger, Takeda)

Takeda Shingen:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/e/ea/180px-Takeda_Shingen_statue.jpg

About Takeda Shingen:

http://www.samurai-archives.com/shingen.html

Shingen and I share the same gender. For the record, Takeda is the surname. Shingen, which he adopted later in life, shedding Hanorobu, is first name.

[Tchocky]

Why are people discounting her chances because she's a woman? It looks to me like America has a Hillary problem as opposed to a Gender problem. Or am I being too generous? :P

[elite_hunter_sh3]

obama will never be president why?

because 3 reasons

1. hes waaayy inexperienced
2. the issue of him being african american (IM NOT RASCIST) im just saying theres alot of people down south who would rather vote for clinton or republicans then to vote for obama, then again he would prolly get 90% of the minority votes ( hspanic, african american and maybe asian,)
3. he jokes around alot especially on tv sure everyone wants a energetic leader but wut will he do if a serious problem arises like Iran or North Korea wuts he gonna do? joke aorund let the iran and n.koreans get pissed and launch a few nukes and vaporize a few million pple??

thats my 3 cents.

[Yahoshua]

Second, while Ms. Clinton does support stricter gun control (IMO not as strict as I would like), I cannot find any instance where she has declared her plans to completely end private gun ownership in the United States.


You forget that this woman is the wife of the man who instituted the infamous "Assault Weapons" Ban that sent our industry into a recession, shuttered nearly 1/3 of gunshops across the nation through frivolous lawsuits, and worked continuously to deny citizens the right to keep and bear arms by banning "military style" rifles and weapons.

The truth being that almost ALL military weapons began as a civilian arm that was eventually adopted by the military. The Winchester Lever Action, the Remington 700, the Musket, the Flintlock, the Wheelock, ALL of these firearms were designed and produce originally for civilian use that was eventually adopted by the military.

Then


Reckless lawsuits against gun companies


Illegal record-keeping on gun sales
Taxes on gun buyers
Gun show bans
Second Amendment scorned
Clinton semi-auto firearm and magazine ban
National five-day waiting period


Now
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
Tiahrt Amendment to protect gun owners’ privacy
Fair tax exemption for gunsmiths
Gun law reforms
Second Amendment supported
Clinton ban sunset
National Instant Check System online

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=WNY99268&type=category&category=Gun%2BIssues&go.x=8&go.y=9

[waste gate]

obama will never be president why?

because 3 reasons

1. hes waaayy inexperienced
2. the issue of him being african american (IM NOT RASCIST) im just saying theres alot of people down south who would rather vote for clinton or republicans then to vote for obama, then again he would prolly get 90% of the minority votes ( hspanic, african american and maybe asian,)
3. he jokes around alot especially on tv sure everyone wants a energetic leader but wut will he do if a serious problem arises like Iran or North Korea wuts he gonna do? joke aorund let the iran and n.koreans get pissed and launch a few nukes and vaporize a few million pple??

thats my 3 cents.


And of course his middle name is Hussein. Yes, Obama is a Musselman.

[dean_acheson]

:damn: obama will never be president why?

because 3 reasons


2. the issue of him being african american (IM NOT RASCIST) im just saying theres alot of people down south who would rather vote for clinton or republicans then to vote for obama, then again he would prolly get 90% of the minority votes ( hspanic, african american and maybe asian,)


thats my 3 cents.

I am not really going to get into this, but as someone who spent a good deal of time 'down south,' this is a really assnine statement. I have met more rascist Yankees than I have Southerners.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama

[Tchocky]

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.
Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

[waste gate]

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama

No! It was SCOTUS that gave Bush the election in 2000.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama
No! It was SCOTUS that gave Bush the election in 2000.

??????

[waste gate]

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama
No! It was SCOTUS that gave Bush the election in 2000.

??????

Supreme Court of the United States. SCOTUS


Tuesday, Dec. 12—The U.S. Supreme Court rules in Bush v. Gore 7–2 to reverse the Florida Supreme Court, which had ordered manual recounts in certain counties. The Court contends that the recount was not treating all ballots equally, and was thus a violation of the Constitution's equal protection and due process guarantees.

[Sailor Steve]

That only means that the Florida Court tried to give the job to Gore. The US Court simply kept them from doing it.

Which court was correct is a matter of opinion only.

[waste gate]

That only means that the Florida Court tried to give the job to Gore. The US Court simply kept them from doing it.

Which court was correct is a matter of opinion only.

Agreed!

Since the Constitution gives SCOTUS the final word, I'd give them the credit.

[Chaotic42]

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?
I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.


It takes away your freedom to purchase a gun. As per the second amendment, we have the right to bear arms:

-
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
-

Any attempt to regulate the ownership of arms would seem to infringe on that right and would therefore violate the Second Amendment.

[waste gate]

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?
I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.


It takes away your freedom to purchase a gun. As per the second amendment, we have the right to bear arms:

-
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
-

Any attempt to regulate the ownership of arms would seem to infringe on that right and would therefore violate the Second Amendment.

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

[Chaotic42]

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

However, that's between him, the people of his country, and their government.

[Tchocky]

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.
For the record, I live in the USA. I said "at home" I can't buy a gun. I don't live in any sort of dark age, and I'm not a "slave to the state".

How very condescending of you. What would your response be if I took a similiar tack, tarring all Americans with the same brush? Think about what you're going to post, then start typing. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Edit:

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless. I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

[Chaotic42]

. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Is that a function of the guns though? People that are going to destroy things and oppress people will do it with or without guns.

Edit:

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless.


I never said that. To me, gun ownership is a part of self-defense. It's not the whole thing.

I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

Me neither and guns are plentiful here. So plentiful infact that many won't hesitate to shoot an intruder dead. Doesn't Switzerland have a large number of guns per citizen and also low crime? Criminals will get guns whether they are legal or illegal.

[Tchocky]

People that are going to destroy things and oppress people will do it with or without guns. You cant shoot someone with a knife, it's harder to kneecap someone without a gun. The difference is usually mortal.
Edit:

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless.

I never said that. To me, gun ownership is a part of self-defense. It's not the whole thing. You were talking about me, the conversation was about guns, you said
I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not. Be consistent.

[Chaotic42]

You were talking about me, the conversation was about guns, you said


Sorry, by "it" I meant the right to bear arms.

Be consistent.
Settle down.

[U-533]

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

[waste gate]

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.
For the record, I live in the USA. I said "at home" I can't buy a gun. I don't live in any sort of dark age, and I'm not a "slave to the state".

How very condescending of you. What would your response be if I took a similiar tack, tarring all Americans with the same brush? Think about what you're going to post, then start typing. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Edit:

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless. I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

My apologies if I placed you in a wrong country. Your profile places you in the 'Ruins of Europe'. And you stated that '"at home" I can't buy a gun'.

I was working with the best information I had at hand (does that sound familiar).

Regarding your acusation of my condesention, I beg to differ. Many Germans, Judea included saw the coming strife. Hitler early on outlawed the private ownership of firearms because he was aware of the threat it posed to his plans.
This information is well documented.

[geetrue]

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

I agree except you mis-spelled she ... unless you meant see ...

[U-533]

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

I agree except you mis-spelled she ... unless you meant see ...

It depends on what your definition of see is...:rotfl:

yep... I misspelled it

[MadMike]

Where do the left wing politicians stand?

Avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders (i.e. the Vermont Commie)-
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Ted "The Red" Kennedy (KGB aspirant)-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm

John Kerry (NLF/VC and NVA negotiator)-
http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

Barak "Madrasah" Obama-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

Hugo Chavez-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

Yours, Mike :rotfl:

[bookworm_020]

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.
You forgot the dishes with the Presidential seal that were missing from Air Force One, after
Mr. and Mrs Clinton were flown home to upper state New York, after
they left the White House.

I believe that one president (before clinton) stripped the aircraft after getting a lift home!

[Subnuts]

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm


See? She's obviously a communist!!!

http://i16.tinypic.com/47bnfj9.jpg

Duh! :roll:

[Bort]

Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric.:up:

[Sea Demon]

Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric.:up:

Hey. If the shoe fits.............

OT: And also, congratulations to the bears;)

[Yahoshua]

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.

The freedom guaranteed by the constitution is that you have the choice to keep and bear arms. And, provided you're at least 18, you have that right as a citizen of the U.S.

The reason I say that the lack of the ability of the people to resist a corrupt government makes them slaves to the state is because governments that deny their citizens the ability to oust an obviously corrupt government, enslave their citizens. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, or a Parliament or Congress that no longer heeds the wishes of the people is a dangerous entity that will eventually become a threat to her citizens (or subjects, if they aren't already).

This has been shown evident time and again in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), and currently in Sudan. If the peoples massacred here had been armed enough to prove a formidable force, many of these tragedies could've been avoided. Perhaps, these tyrants could've been deterred.


Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

An educated body of people making decisions on how to run the country is the foundation of Democracy. And we have failed it bitterly in this day and age. Ideally, the people should be far more involved in the decision-making process and depend less on a beaureaucratic system that is present now.

[August]

I believe that one president (before clinton) stripped the aircraft after getting a lift home!

Yeah, funny how it took them eight years to notice they were missing, right?

[geetrue]

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.

The freedom guaranteed by the constitution is that you have the choice to keep and bear arms. And, provided you're at least 18, you have that right as a citizen of the U.S.

The reason I say that the lack of the ability of the people to resist a corrupt government makes them slaves to the state is because governments that deny their citizens the ability to oust an obviously corrupt government, enslave their citizens. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, or a Parliament or Congress that no longer heeds the wishes of the people is a dangerous entity that will eventually become a threat to her citizens (or subjects, if they aren't already).

This has been shown evident time and again in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), and currently in Sudan. If the peoples massacred here had been armed enough to prove a formidable force, many of these tragedies could've been avoided. Perhaps, these tyrants could've been deterred.


Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

An educated body of people making decisions on how to run the country is the foundation of Democracy. And we have failed it bitterly in this day and age. Ideally, the people should be far more involved in the decision-making process and depend less on a beaureaucratic system that is present now.

The problem is not guns, but people ... People don't always make the right choices with or without a gun.

Let the first politician win that says, "You do a crime with a gun and you lose all of your rights period" I think that person would get all of the votes.

I know someone is going to say, "Criminals will always find a way to get a gun" Priority is the problem with crime ... USA has a budget to fight crime, which includes lillegal use of guns, murder, drugs, failure to pay your taxes, stealing, cheating, kidnapping, sneaking across the border, etc., but yet we are losing the war on crime ...

Now back to Senator Clinton ... Can you trust anything she says while running for President of the United States?

One she wants to win ... She will promise anything that sounds good to win to what her advisors say the people want ... If her voting base is determned to be pro abortion or pro same sex marriage or pro poor people paying less taxes and the rich paying more ... Then that is the standpoint you will get from her.

The problem is ... it's not just Senator Clinton ... You have to look into the soul of every canidate and decern and learn ... or judge and lose.

That's my view from Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan (the best one yet), Clinton, to Bush, but the next two years will prove we need a strong milatary minded person for President and that lets Senator Clinton out ...

I'm still wating to make up my mind ... just like I am for Chicago or Indy ...

Wisdom comes from understanding our mistakes ... :up:

[Chaotic42]

Where do the left wing politicians stand?

Avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders (i.e. the Vermont Commie)-
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Ted "The Red" Kennedy (KGB aspirant)-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm

John Kerry (NLF/VC and NVA negotiator)-
http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

Barak "Madrasah" Obama-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

Hugo Chavez-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

Yours, Mike :rotfl:


Clinton:
-
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
-

That's all you need to hear. That alone should make it obvious that she is not the person that we need in control of our government.

[MadMike]

Ted Kennedy's KGB connections are documented by archivist Vasili Mitrokhin and a letter entitled "Special Importance Committee on State Security of the USSR 14.05.1983 No. 1029 Ch/OV Moscow".

Former Senator Ron Dellums support of Communist dictator Fidel Castro and Grenada's dead communist leader Maurice Bishop are also well documented (in captured documents after the Grenada liberation).

It's not difficult to find out which American left wing politicians consider themselves "internationalists" and wannabe revolutionaries. Nancy Pelosi outwardly opposes Hugo Chavez, but let's see where the Democratic Congress really stands when he is confronted over his dictatorial actions.

Yours, Mike

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/rect-oldschool-red.jpg

[ASWnut101]

I know she'll be coming for my guns. And she'll be getting them.......bullets first.:stare:

amen to that. nobody, and i mean NOBODY takes my guns from me without experiencing first hand what they do.



I like the "Redefeat communism" poster, too!:yep: :up:

[Yahoshua]

The problem is not guns, but people ... People don't always make the right choices with or without a gun.

I agree wholeheartedly, and it is an education problem that leaves people without the means to make a better choice (or in some cases they're just born stupid, which unfortunately, isn't something one can fix).

I know someone is going to say, "Criminals will always find a way to get a gun" Priority is the problem with crime ... USA has a budget to fight crime, which includes lillegal use of guns, murder, drugs, failure to pay your taxes, stealing, cheating, kidnapping, sneaking across the border, etc., but yet we are losing the war on crime ...

Another point that I agree on. This is a problem with much deeper roots and has become ingrained in politics with the push for minority votes and the "multi-culti" political correctness that has corroded the integrity of our leadership and Law Enforcement (esp. LE).

We need to raise the standards of hiring for LEOs' again and restore the integrity of the badge. Officers are in place to enforce the law, not to intimidate people into unkowingly giving up their rights. Another problem is the beareaucracy that has taken hold of the LE agencies, seeing as how traffic tickets and drug convictions are pursued more as a source of revenue than as a legitimate means to protect people and enforce the law.

I especially despise how SWAT teams are being used, seeing as how every small-town sheriff and his pet dog has a SWAT team under his control the abuse of such power is becoming increasingly common. We don't need SWAT teams for arresting drug dealers, that's what street-beating LEOs' are for.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Smilies/RantONRantOFF.gif

[Seth8530]

Here comes first Man! Clinton back in house (pukes):damn::help:

[ASWnut101]

what's with this barak obama guy?

he came out of nowhere... *looks around*


he's a Muslim. He shouldn't be let in office (nor does hilary). Just stick to the tradition of a old, white skinned male, like it has always been for the past 260 something years of this country.


besides, obama man wants to be sworn in with the koran?! No way.:down: :nope: :nope:

[Tchocky]

what's with this barak obama guy?

he came out of nowhere... *looks around*


he's a Muslim. He shouldn't be let in office (nor does hilary). Just stick to the tradition of a old, white skinned male, like it has always been for the past 260 something years of this country.


besides, obama man wants to be sworn in with the koran?! No way.:down: :nope: :nope:

Yay! Another informed post!

[fatty]

Yay! Another informed post!

Agreed! :D

[ASWnut101]

heh. enjoy.:roll:

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Yours, Mike

Amen, brother :)
My fondest wish is she will get the Dem nom... best way to ensure a Republican stays in the White House. Hopefully a better one than we have now.

We don't need any more socialism in the US, we have more than enough.

Isn't it true comrade Stevens, that you speak Russian and have played the akula in DW?

Nyet!

[Onkel Neal]

Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric.:up:

Good reminder, Bort. Thanks.

[The Avon Lady]

This LA Times opinion piece has my vote:

Anyone but a Bush or a Clinton (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-burkee22jan22,0,7673503.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail). :yep:

[U-533]

This LA Times opinion piece has my vote:

Anyone but a Bush or a Clinton (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-burkee22jan22,0,7673503.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail). :yep:


op... glad I stopped myself... lol... I was about to make a tasteless remark about Clinton and bush but I will refrain.

sorry ...sorry

I agree with Avon Lady.

[sonar732]

As I posted on the other topic...I feel that it will be Obama as the Democratic nomination and he will pick Hillary as his VP. The reasoning is simple...to get the minority vote of moderate Republicans locked in.

[Enigma]

I wont get into the can of worms that is the gun control debate. I will point out however, that Hilary generated 5 odd pages of posts on tis forum alone. Love her or hate her, (I do neither...) .....she gets people talking and keeps people talking. (about communism, apparently.):lol:

he's a Muslim. He shouldn't be let in office (nor does hilary). Just stick to the tradition of a old, white skinned male, like it has always been for the past 260 something years of this country.

....Says the fella with the confederate battle flag. :rotfl: :damn:

[Konovalov]

what's with this barak obama guy?

he came out of nowhere... *looks around*


he's a Muslim. He shouldn't be let in office (nor does hilary). Just stick to the tradition of a old, white skinned male, like it has always been for the past 260 something years of this country.


besides, obama man wants to be sworn in with the koran?! No way.:down: :nope: :nope:

Yay! Another informed post!

:yep: Either that if being generous or a mixture of outright lies and miss-information. Mud, glorious mud slinging. :nope: :nope:

[The Avon Lady]

Heads up! Hillary biography by Watergate journalist Carl Bernstein about to be published: A Woman in Charge - The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1719879.ece).

[SUBMAN1]

Well, I don't like any of them. However, I have found that most people are completely apathetic to politics up until they are physically inconvinenced on a consistent basis.

I'll vote for Hillary. She'll get this country run firmly into the ground, and then we might have a shot at getting significant Libertarian positions in the Congress. I don't always agree with the Libertarians, but there's a heck lot more than Reps or Dems. About the only good thing she can do is pass "Net Neutrality" laws, and I don't even think she'll do it because the corporations will shift gears and start bribing her before the vote.

http://caxton.stockton.edu/Meister72/picture$271

Ouch! She will run it into the ground allright, but after that, it won't matter if you get to vote for your libitarians because there will be nothing left of the country. She is going to get us nuked if she gets in power.

[Heibges]

Here are just a handful of examples from her Senate site. She's a socialist.
You're aware of the difference between socialism and communism, yeah?

She's a commie!
"No, she's not"
"Yes she is, she's a socialist!"

Come on, you're better than that.


Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton announced today that she had joined with a group of her colleagues in urging Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to temporarily halt the deportation of Haitian nationals. Given the humanitarian disaster caused by Hurricane Jeanne and the desperate conditions facing the country and its people, the Senators last week asked Secretary Ridge to use his authority to grant Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Haitian nationals. Temporary Protected Status has been granted in similar circumstances in the past. The Prime Minister of Haiti, Gerard Latortue, has already called on the United States Government to grant such an authority.
-

-
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has joined with fellow Senate Democrats in urging the Department of Homeland Security to issue a formal statement reassuring immigrant victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina that they can seek help from relief agencies without fear of deportation or being turned over to immigration authorities. In a letter to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the Senators asked that in light of the magnitude of the tragedy caused by the hurricanes, the ongoing need for relief, and the continuous risk to public health and safety involved, such an assurance should be issued to the hurricane’s immigrant victims as soon as possible.

Are you honestly showcasing these as being socialist? (Or communist, which is it?) They strike me as humanitarian rather than anything else. As for the others, many countries have minumum wage laws and agricultural subsidies without being socialist in nature.

Sadly, the need to subsidize farmers has plagued the western world for 300 years.

[Heibges]

Heads up! Hillary biography by Watergate journalist Carl Bernstein about to be published: A Woman in Charge - The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1719879.ece).

Will his treatment of Hillary be better than his wife's (Nora Ephron) treatment of him in "Heartburn"? :D

[August]

As I posted on the other topic...I feel that it will be Obama as the Democratic nomination and he will pick Hillary as his VP. The reasoning is simple...to get the minority vote of moderate Republicans locked in.

Huh? No way would that particular ticket even stand a chance. Besides, people that get in the Clintons way tend to die in an untimely fashion. No way would Obama put Hillary one heartbeat away from the oval office, especially his own.

[ASWnut101]

Why the hell do we have to dig up these dusty-old threads?

[baggygreen]

Well i spose its better than starting a new one on the same topic.. keeps it all nice n tidy in one spot :)

[The Avon Lady]

Well i spose its better than starting a new one on the same topic.. keeps it all nice n tidy in one spot :)
Yep. Why do we need mulltiple threads on exactly the same topic?