GWX circle of death

[L_DOG]

i just put in the new CWX mod.
seems every time i go out i get swarmed by the enemy .
i get 2 to 3 DD or flower class ships that circle me within 300 meters and i just cant slip away. and even an armed TUG ?? this is funny.
cant even get a shot off because there to close to me UGH.
can we turn down the ai sensors a bitt ???
:cry:

[bigboywooly]

What year are you playing in and how long have you had SH3 ?

You have to think like a Uboat Kpt
Its not the SH3 arcade game any more where you can sail on the surface at high speed and do as you like

Silent running of 2 kts and under will help you lose the ships above
However if you are always surrounded by 2 or 3 ships you are obviousley doing something wrong before then for them to find you in such numbers

Convoy attacks need to be planned with stealth in mind

Later in the war I have had multiple escorts above and got away
Not always

The later the war goes on the more esorts are out there

Read the manual
Some great tips in there

[_Seth_]

Hi mate! the sensors is made that way for realism. but there are ways to change that! :up:
EDIT: bbw beat me to it...... :-)

[L_DOG]

ok crusing around north west england in the shipping lanes.
1st i get airplanes i dive ,here comes a dd or flower.
then he calls for more help.
mean while im at the bottom duing 2 knots in silent mode dogging depth charges.
and make turns away from disaster and trying to slip away only to die.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

One of the first lessons I took with GWX was: avoid shallow waters. Now I avoid the Northern See as much as I can, and go north or west, to do my job on the shelf boarder. If I'd have to chase my prey to area shallower thn 200 metres, I drop it and wait till the next possibility.

Shallow is another word for death, man. With GWX 'death' got also some other brothers and sisters, like:
- channel,
- surface,
- moon,
- good weather,
- sunrise,
- bravery...
- rush.

Life has only three sisters I know personally:
- fear,
- patience,
- caution.

[Brag]

Welcome to the Doom Club!
You're probably doing something to attract trouble. Get spotted by aircraft, or making too much noise. NEVER approach a convoy at more than 3 knots. Allways approach in SILENT running (keyboard Z). The moment you see an airplane dive. Same with any warship.

In my last patrol, must of my contacts were with warships. But I did sink one destroyer. Had to skulk away back to Kiel with a heavily damaged boat and low tonnage.

Read the manual and visit my website.

Be afraid, very afraid :roll:

[Iron Budokan]

The arcade days of stock SHIII are long gone, glad to say. :up:

[raymond6751]

Try this. Go as deep as possible, slow, and set your rudder to 5 degree turn in any direction. You can vary this with 10 degrees. You can even zig and zag slowly, back and forth every 5 minutes along a path line.

The escorts seem to have trouble with this rudder stuff. When they get a fix on you they go for a spot in the sea. You keep moving away at minor degree turns.

This is more difficult with multiple escorts but try it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Low and slow. The night time is the right time. Shadow from far off. Do the end round and attack at night. It can be done! Think like a Kaleun and react like one. The days of blazing in are over! It is much more challenging.

Once you sink a few, run deep and run at 2kts. Silent running. Zig zag. It can work!

[IceGrog]

I used to have lots of problems with the dying thing, I still have a hard time but I’ve gotten a lot better. I used to charge right up to the convoys full blast but after reading some the posts from the old guys, I’ve been paying more attention to keeping from being heard from the enemy, just in doing that I saw a lot of improvement. Although even in the GWX when I’m trying to sneak up on a convoy, they are always sending a DD back to check the area that I’m in. Most of the time now I come away with more DD kills than merchants.

[AVGWarhawk]

I used to have lots of problems with the dying thing, I still have a hard time but I’ve gotten a lot better. I used to charge right up to the convoys full blast but after reading some the posts from the old guys, I’ve been paying more attention to keeping from being heard from the enemy, just in doing that I saw a lot of improvement. Although even in the GWX when I’m trying to sneak up on a convoy, they are always sending a DD back to check the area that I’m in. Most of the time now I come away with more DD kills than merchants.

You can get in there even in day light. Normally the convoy has a warship at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions. If you can get ahead of the convoy. Stay at say 40m, silent, 2kts. Make the approach at the 1-2 o'clock position as they are headed towards you. Once the lead warships passes you(once you get past the 12 o'clock warship, you are good), raise to scope depth, open your doors, take your bearings. Wait for the convoy to come over you. Let them have it, go deep and silent. Exit the back of the convoy. Works every time.

[IceGrog]

You can get in there even in day light. Normally the convoy has a warship at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions. If you can get ahead of the convoy. Stay at say 40m, silent, 2kts. Make the approach at the 1-2 o'clock position as they are headed towards you. Once the lead warships passes you(once you get past the 12 o'clock warship, you are good), raise to scope depth, open your doors, take your bearings. Wait for the convoy to come over you. Let them have it, go deep and silent. Exit the back of the convoy. Works every time.

it seem that 90% of the time i always end up looking at the rear of the convoy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well i guess that's how i picked me wife,

[AVGWarhawk]

You can get in there even in day light. Normally the convoy has a warship at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions. If you can get ahead of the convoy. Stay at say 40m, silent, 2kts. Make the approach at the 1-2 o'clock position as they are headed towards you. Once the lead warships passes you(once you get past the 12 o'clock warship, you are good), raise to scope depth, open your doors, take your bearings. Wait for the convoy to come over you. Let them have it, go deep and silent. Exit the back of the convoy. Works every time.
it seem that 90% of the time i always end up looking at the rear of the convoy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well i guess that's how i picked me wife,

Funny, me too. Come in from the stern on the surface and only at night! Submerged you will never have enough speed. The end round to get infront is always my favorite attack position day or night.

[Hartmann]

A circle could be a good way to chase submarines because while one scort is doing a attack run , others are stopped in the water tracking the contact and sending signals to the others.

the scorts are attacking in turns whith the sub in the middle of the "circle"

[Kapitan Edvard]

I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

[andy_311]

Deep is great when you got deep water,but sometimes you just don't have it.
At the momment most of the Capatains here are in the atlantic,but if your lucky and survive,and get transfered to somewhere where it's not that deep (and there are places like that)start praying,but that's in 44 anyway.

[AVGWarhawk]

I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

If day time and your in a bad position, get the general track of the convoy. Make your track in such a way that you are out of sight and can flank speed to the head of the projected path of the convoy. If at night stay surfaced and come in at an angle as the convoy is coming towards you. If day time submerge, silent and come in at around 40m until the lead DD passes you. Go to scope depth and prepare to sink some ships. Exit the back of the convoy very deep and silent. Rinse and repeat.

[Gezoes]

Welcome to the Doom Club!
You're probably doing something to attract trouble. Get spotted by aircraft, or making too much noise. NEVER approach a convoy at more than 3 knots. Allways approach in SILENT running (keyboard Z). The moment you see an airplane dive. Same with any warship.

In my last patrol, must of my contacts were with warships. But I did sink one destroyer. Had to skulk away back to Kiel with a heavily damaged boat and low tonnage.

Read the manual and visit my website.

Be afraid, very afraid :roll:
Indeed. I was trapped near Hartlepool by 4 DD's. Forward torpedoes gone, all periscopes destroyed, flak guns too. All I have left is the rear tubes, deck gun and the bridge USO. Three casualties but the rudder thing helped. After skipping off the seabed during DC'ing I went to 1 or 2 kts at 6 degrees rudder. I slipped away, on my way back to port. No more shallow waters for me.

That's a new career. Patrol 1. Okt 1939. Sank nothing.

:huh::rotfl:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

This is kind of butchered regarding the images, but I just slapped it together as I'm on patrol at the moment. I'll try to do a better tutorial later for convoy interceptions.

The key thing is to get into position, unseen and unspotted, before they reach you. If you try chasing after them you're virtually doomed to fail.

So, let's take one example: you've gotten a contact report (I'll cover running across one later, when it happens again for me :p )

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/convoy%20interception/convoyintercept_1.jpg

To plot an intercept first you have to try determining the convoy's future path (this isn't foolproof, as convoys can, and will, make course changes as they travel). I use the ruler line and, starting at the middle of the convoy mark out a line colinear with the convoy's 'trail'. The length at this point is not important; just make it rather long to start. If you need aid in drawing a straight line, use the compass and click the center at the back of the convoy 'tail' and draw the radius directly over the convoy tail outwards.

The final length of the convoy path requires tweaking, and is determined by how far you have to travel. Making it 25km long is no good if you're 300km away. Here's an example of how to determine the right distance: if the convoy is traveling 7kt, and you make the estimate length 75km long, if your distance to get there is 150km or less you're ok (since flank speed is faster than 14kt). You want to arrange it so you get in location no less than 18km in front (and once radar comes into play, that changes drastically!) to keep from being visually spotted. I normally shoot for 30km out, to give me time to make hydrophone checks as they advance to forewarn me if they've made a course change out of my line of sight.

Once you've decided on the length/convoy travel distance, mark two circles: one at the start and one at the end, each the same size. These are your line-of-sight warning areas. In clear daylight make them 18km. In rough weather maybe 12 - 14 km. At night, with no moon, you might get away with 8km. Bigger is better, you can't go wrong that way.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/convoy%20interception/convoyintercept_1.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/convoy%20interception/convoyintercept_2.jpg

Once you've determined the line-of-sight area at the end point, you can plot your course. By plotting your course so that your final, pre-intercept turn is tangent to the line-of-sight circle you're doing your best to prevent the convoy's lookouts from spotting you as you race ahead to the ambush.

Your next course change is directly to the center of the last line-of-sight circle. How far you go in before your final turn is dependant on several things: weather, time of day, the escort size . . . your nerve. ;)

I'll draw a second circle at the convoy path line end, its size the distance away from the convoy center I wish to be. That's normally been 2.000 - 3.000 meters out. Keep in mind that you've marked the convoy's path, and that path is for the middle of the convoy. If it's four lanes wide, each 1km apart, the outer lanes will be 1.500 meters to each side of that path . . . and the escorts range even further outwards.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/convoy%20interception/convoyintercept_4.jpg

Once I reach that second circle I make my final pre-attack positioning. In this instance I turned to face back along the convoy path.

I wish I could have done a better pictoral job here, but hopefully this'll help give you one idea how to catch a convoy. :)

[Madox58]

Something that helped me when I started.
Instead of try to get the convoy itself, I watched it's path.
Then moved in behind it because another one WILL be coming down the pike
sooner or later!
Now you are already setup and should have no problem with your intercept!

[FIREWALL]

Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?

[AVGWarhawk]

Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?

Thats easy, stay ashore:D

[Ducimus]

Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?


I was thinking about making a post illustrating how sonar and detection works (with pictures) for those that didnt read the manual. I just have to add, everytime a thread like this comes up, i get giddy. :88)

[j_o_nn_y]

How do you add those rulers on the map showing you the distance and knots?.

[Brag]

I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

To attack a convoy, you must position yourself ahead of it. You do this by racing on the surface, out of sight of the convoy. You have to plan and properly estimate where the convoy will at the time of your arrival to the place of ambush. You can dive ocasionally to check on the convoy's position.

Once you are on the convoy's path: you wait quietly and let it come to you. It is scary. Check my website to see how to attack a convoy. Best of luck :up:

[Brag]

Welcome to the Doom Club!
You're probably doing something to attract trouble. Get spotted by aircraft, or making too much noise. NEVER approach a convoy at more than 3 knots. Allways approach in SILENT running (keyboard Z). The moment you see an airplane dive. Same with any warship.

In my last patrol, must of my contacts were with warships. But I did sink one destroyer. Had to skulk away back to Kiel with a heavily damaged boat and low tonnage.

Read the manual and visit my website.

Be afraid, very afraid :roll:
Indeed. I was trapped near Hartlepool by 4 DD's. Forward torpedoes gone, all periscopes destroyed, flak guns too. All I have left is the rear tubes, deck gun and the bridge USO. Three casualties but the rudder thing helped. After skipping off the seabed during DC'ing I went to 1 or 2 kts at 6 degrees rudder. I slipped away, on my way back to port. No more shallow waters for me.

That's a new career. Patrol 1. Okt 1939. Sank nothing.

:huh::rotfl:

Congratulations on your survival, that's what counts. Live and learn to get the tonnage later :up: :up: :up:

[Torpex752]

Try this. Go as deep as possible, slow, and set your rudder to 5 degree turn in any direction. You can vary this with 10 degrees. You can even zig and zag slowly, back and forth every 5 minutes along a path line.

The escorts seem to have trouble with this rudder stuff. When they get a fix on you they go for a spot in the sea. You keep moving away at minor degree turns.

This is more difficult with multiple escorts but try it.

Late in the war in the pacific the Japanese used this similar tactic for convoys and warships called "constant helming". SH1 modeled it perfectly. It makes standard TMA tracking nearly impossible because you dont know if/when the ship will increase or decrease its turn rate, somthing you need in order to get a good solution.

Frank :cool:

[L_DOG]

i think those AI gots night vision Ja ?
from 8000 mtrs and at night he changed course to come after me in the IRISH SEE.
DIRTY BUGGERS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/TOGLDOG/u-boot/clr-pc-Stroh-05.jpg

[Torpex752]

i think those AI gots night vision Ja ?
from 8000 mtrs and at night he changed course to come after me in the IRISH SEE.
DIRTY BUGGERS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/TOGLDOG/u-boot/clr-pc-Stroh-05.jpg

Thats a fair detection by radar, if it was radar.

[Wulfmann]

My TGW1.1 which took me months of sensor tweaking was harder than GWX. I had to submerge in the darn pen after D-Day to leave and return submerged. I was hounded everywhere and was a nervous wreck nearly constantly.
Lord it was great!
GWX is easier and I actually managed to complete a 1943 career to the end of the war and it was hell.
My point?
IMO, nearly every post that slams GWX as being too hard is simply people needing to be a better Kaleun.

No, I won't go back to that tougher TGW1.1,
I will simply tweak this wonderful GWX to be harder as I scratch my head reading about the "Girly Men" asking to make live easy.
Life was not easy for the U-Boats and even the "Happy Times" were harder than most naval service in any country.

No offense, it ain't GWX it is you!

A little tough love, nothing more. Suck it up and start working on what you need to do to survive and kill the English and not assume a detuned GWX is what is required.

Maybe someone can detune GWX and call it the Grey-Pansies-X!

Not trying to be too hard merely suggesting if you think it is too hard you need to be asking what you can do to improve your tactics and not diminish this good as it is if anything it should be harder, best thing that has happened ever to any sub sim add on to date.
(The GWX guys are trying to be nice. I don't have to!):rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Wulfmann

[Scheisskopf]

My TGW1.1 which took me months of sensor tweaking was harder than GWX. I had to submerge in the darn pen after D-Day to leave and return submerged. I was hounded everywhere and was a nervous wreck nearly constantly.
Lord it was great!
GWX is easier and I actually managed to complete a 1943 career to the end of the war and it was hell.
My point?
IMO, nearly every post that slams GWX as being too hard is simply people needing to be a better Kaleun.

No, I won't go back to that tougher TGW1.1,
I will simply tweak this wonderful GWX to be harder as I scratch my head reading about the "Girly Men" asking to make live easy.
Life was not easy for the U-Boats and even the "Happy Times" were harder than most naval service in any country.

No offense, it ain't GWX it is you!

A little tough love, nothing more. Suck it up and start working on what you need to do to survive and kill the English and not assume a detuned GWX is what is required.

Maybe someone can detune GWX and call it the Grey-Pansies-X!

Not trying to be too hard merely suggesting if you think it is too hard you need to be asking what you can do to improve your tactics and not diminish this good as it is if anything it should be harder, best thing that has happened ever to any sub sim add on to date.
(The GWX guys are trying to be nice. I don't have to!):rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Wulfmann

well said, and the manual gives you alot of tricks too on how to survive, actually its a very interesting read and very well written

and wulfmann, i like your sig btw, hell ya to guns :rock:

[Ducimus]

There is no doubt the AI can have been tweaked further in GWX. Once you know how, its really not that hard, to make it harder.

From my involement in the GWX project at the time, i think i can say this. The difficulty of the AI was much thought over. The aim was to make it tougher, but not so tough as to alienate/discourage people from using the mod. There was talk/joking about making an "easy mode" Modlet/plugin for the game, but i guess it was decided to give the AI some good documentation so the player understands it better, then to present an Easy mode patch. Of which i tend to agree if that was the intention.

Now, while i personnaly think that talk of dumbing down the AI is funny, i also think that chastizing other players because of their abilities and/or choice of gamestyle in SH3 is inappropriate.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Generally speaking, some other things to consider about the ASW package in GWX when looking at it as a whole:

Early in the war, the merchants do not have deck guns.

There are fewer escorts.

There are fewer aircraft attacks.

In 1939 only 57 U-boats were capable of going to sea. Before the year was out, 9 were lost to hostile action. Two were destroyed by mines. www.uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net)

That translates to nearly a 16% total force loss in only four months of combat.

So it would seem that even the "Happy Times" were fraught with peril for the U-boatman, and suggests that this was hidden or overshadowed by early successes.