Are submerged/periscope attacks too easy?

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I got started thinking about this from another thread, where it was mentioned that the tonnage people sink seem unrealistically high when compared to actual wartime statistics. That got me thinking about how I conduct my attacks versus what (little it may be) I know about historical U-boat attacks.

Virtually any convoy attack I make, day or night, is a submerged one. It's only if I play very early in the war that I make night-time surface attacks on convoys. Singletons or doubletons I might still attack on the surface (at least until they start getting armed! :p ) but usually my periscope gets a workout. :yep:

However, from what I've read it seems that the majority of attacks, even against convoys, was conducted on the surface. I recall reading one account (from the Allies perspective; I wish I could remember where I read it at :88) ) where they said that, over hours thru the night the individual subs of the attacking wolf pack would surface some distance out, then dive as an escort charged toward them, only to re-surface again and again trying to get in an attack.

I don't understand why they didn't remain submerged and try creeping in for an approach while submerged. Part of the explanation was the very slow speed the boats had while submerged, which made it difficult to adjust course and close the range. But I don't seem to have trouble doing that in-game, which is why I wonder if it's far easier to conduct a submerged attack in SHIII than it actually was. And, if that's true, if there's any way of making a submerged attack more historically accurate and reflect that difficulty.

[mookiemookie]

I was always under the impression that periscope attacks were difficult especially at night as the optics didn't allow for accurate targeteing. i.e. it was too dark to get accurate AOB, range and speed measurements.

There could be other reasons, but this is the one that I'm aware of.

[melnibonian]

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.

[Warmonger]

Just look at the various tonnage accounts on www.uboat.net and you can see that many subs never sank a ship even on numerous patrols. So if you'd make a game as hard as real life was almost noone would play it for long time.
It's always difficult to comparison real life and games, even with super sims like SH3.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.

I understand that. My question was posing if it is (or just appears to be) far easier to conduct successful submerged attacks in SHIII than they should be, historically compared.

[AVGWarhawk]

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.
I understand that. My question was posing if it is (or just appears to be) far easier to conduct successful submerged attacks in SHIII than they should be, historically compared.

Compared historically I would say yes. But again, this is a sim played in the comfort of your home so there are plenty of things that will be missing from the sim as a result.

[Sailor Steve]

As mookiemookie said, night attacks pretty much had to be done on the surface as periscopes don't allow enough light to be useful unless a full moon is out. Daylight attacks must be made submerged (or you're dead), which means risking staying surfaced long enough to do an end-around to get in front of the convoy and dive again.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

As mookiemookie said, night attacks pretty much had to be done on the surface as periscopes don't allow enough light to be useful unless a full moon is out. Daylight attacks must be made submerged (or you're dead), which means risking staying surfaced long enough to do an end-around to get in front of the convoy and dive again.

Ok. Then I wasn't imagining things. :p

I suppose the only alternative would be have the scopes modded to have their field of view darker and/or blurred during night-time conditions (less when you have a full moon, of course ;) ) to simulate historical conditions.

[johan_d]

Well all above can be true, but I for example am cautious, because I want to live thru the war to see the anticlimax end.

I sink about 2-4 ships per patrol, sometimes none. Maybe my realism.. altough on 50%.

I almost do the entire patrol from the bridge surfaced, and barely go down every hour to listen. Only do that when I suspect bait.. on a choke point for example.

Creeping in to about 4 miles, and when there are too much destroyers, or the prey is going to fast, I stop and evade. Do not wanna risk my life and that of the crew.


Just pretend you do NOT wanna die, and life thru the war, then the whole sim becomes that way, as described.
Maybe just my way of doing things, but often I go flank surfaced to the target, lauch torpedoes, dive to keep undetected, watch for hit, surface or shoot another one if missed, and away we go. Destroyers around, then slow and deep, otherwise, clearing datum asap.

Anyhow, you could easily make it as you describe herr Von Hesse, just lower the max battery speed, then you MUST do as advertised.
have fun!