Jet with anti-missile system leaves LAX

[SUBMAN1]

LOS ANGELES - An MD-10 cargo jet equipped with Northrop Grumman's Guardian anti-missile system took off from Los Angeles International Airport on a commercial flight Tuesday, the company said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070117/ap_on_hi_te/airliner_anti_missile

[Letum]

I can't see airlines wanting to pay for this.

[SUBMAN1]

I can't see airlines wanting to pay for this.

I'm sure it depends on where they are flying into. The first day that when one of these airliners actually gets shot down though, it will become mandatory I bet.

[CCIP]

I'm sure it depends on where they are flying into. The first day that when one of these airliners actually gets shot down though, it will become mandatory I bet.

Right!

In fact I think we're very lucky that this hasn't happened yet despite several attempts to do so.

Given the expense, I'm sure it'll be introduced within reason. Certainly there's no grounds for installing it on every single domestic-flying 737 in North America, since it's VERY unlikely something like that'd strike here first. Other parts of the world may be a different story.

[Kapitan]

Aircraft going in and out of hot point maybe such as the DHL A300's that go into baghdad and so on but it wont catch unless our sending your planes there and if there is a war no airline intelligent or thick is going to want to send £300 million quids worth of plane into that zone incase they do shoot it down.

the best thing that happend to aircraft as of recent is TCAS if they could modify that to alert of incoming missile attack then maybe the pilots could do some evasive monovers or have the cheaper option and put chaff on the planes.

[CCIP]

Most of these missiles would be IR guided though, wouldn't they?

And given the size of the aircraft/number of engines/their general lack of concern for concealing IR (or radar, for that matter) signatures, I'd say the chances of a commercial-sized jet out-manuevering a missile are pretty small. And you'd need a LOT of chaff/flares to spoof a missile off something that big :hmm:

[SUBMAN1]

I'm sure it depends on where they are flying into. The first day that when one of these airliners actually gets shot down though, it will become mandatory I bet.
Right!

In fact I think we're very lucky that this hasn't happened yet despite several attempts to do so.

Given the expense, I'm sure it'll be introduced within reason. Certainly there's no grounds for installing it on every single domestic-flying 737 in North America, since it's VERY unlikely something like that'd strike here first. Other parts of the world may be a different story.

I have a picture of an airliner hit with an SA-7 - Let me find it. It just took the engine off, but didn't knock the plane out. He just turned around and landed - it was an MD-80 I believe.

-S

[Kapitan]

Depends a fair few are a fair few aint.

[Enigma]

Well, mandatory is a funny word when it comes to the FAA. After the Swissair 111 crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111) in '98. flammable material used in the aircraft's structure was blamed for a fire resulting in the loss of control and crash of the aircraft.
The FAA mandated it all be changed to a better material over a loooong period of time. And if im not mistaken, there are still plenty of aircraft flying with the old flammable material on board.....:roll:

[SUBMAN1]

This one got hit recently, but I can't find my MD-80 pic. This plane in the picture turned around and landed safely too though.

I found an isrealie airliner that got hit by a SAM too, but it also landed safely.

Maybe SA-7's are just good for taking out helo's. They don't seem to work on bigger jets.

-S

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/22/sprj.irq.main/story.plane.2.jpg

[Enigma]

the best thing that happend to aircraft as of recent is TCAS

Although, a missile wouldnt have a tronsponder for the TCAS to pick up.....

[Kapitan]

I know that, and hence why i said if they could adapt it.

[Enigma]

Alright! Keep yer hair on! :lol:

[ASWnut101]

Well, the SA-7 "grail" IS a anti-helo weapon, IR guided.

[The Avon Lady]

I found an isrealie airliner that got hit by a SAM too, but it also landed safely.
What case is this? There was one where AA missiles were fired at an Israeli airliner in Nairobi but they missed.

El Al planes have since been equipped with countermeasure devices. Of course that makes some people unhappy (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010464.php). :shifty:

[Gizzmoe]

El Al planes have since been equipped with countermeasure devices. Of course that makes some people unhappy (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010464.php). :shifty:
"Europe objects to El Al's anti-missile shield"??? Europe consists of 46 countries, and only one (Switzerland) has barred them so far... Are there any more European countries that have also actually barred them?

[U-533]

Just pass the cost on to the consumer.

With enough defenses in place the Airlines would be safe ... but then again the consumer may not be able to afford to move his freight ... so one way or another the Terriost win.

oops I meant the consumer will not be able to afford to buy the frieght shipped ,,, either way same thing happens.

[The Avon Lady]

El Al planes have since been equipped with countermeasure devices. Of course that makes some people unhappy (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010464.php). :shifty:
"Europe objects to El Al's anti-missile shield"??? Europe consists of 46 countries, and only one (Switzerland) has barred them so far... Are there any more European countries that have also actually barred them?
The article states: "....and the German paper said more countries are expected to soon follow."
Just pass the cost on to the consumer.
Bleeding the West (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012209.php).

[Gizzmoe]

The article states: "....and the German paper said more countries are expected to soon follow."

Yeah, and the article is almost 10 months old, so have they followed already? Has Switzerland perhaps already took back their decision?

[The Avon Lady]

The article states: "....and the German paper said more countries are expected to soon follow."
Yeah, and the article is almost 10 months old, so have they followed already? Has Switzerland perhaps already took back their decision?
I have no idea either way. I'm sure there were quiet negotiations between Israel and various countries. What the results of such discussions are/were does not appear to be public information.

[SUBMAN1]

I found an isrealie airliner that got hit by a SAM too, but it also landed safely. What case is this? There was one where AA missiles were fired at an Israeli airliner in Nairobi but they missed.

El Al planes have since been equipped with countermeasure devices. Of course that makes some people unhappy (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010464.php). :shifty:

Dunno - was looking for the picture of the SA-7 that hit the MD-80 and bumped into it. It was back like 25 years ago or something like that. Sorry I can't be of any more help - I did a quick search right now and came up empty handed. Of course, maybe it wasn't Isreali? I was clicking on everything so I could be mistaken.

-S

[kurtz]

I can't see airlines wanting to pay for this.

I'm sure it depends on where they are flying into. The first day that when one of these airliners actually gets shot down though, it will become mandatory I bet.

and which country would it be that's safe? Heathrow has been targeted by muslim and catholic terrorists I assume thta as america funds the IRA they have a few of their own I can't help thinking the only safe airports are in Israel.

[The Avon Lady]

I can't see airlines wanting to pay for this.

I'm sure it depends on where they are flying into. The first day that when one of these airliners actually gets shot down though, it will become mandatory I bet.

and which country would it be that's safe? Heathrow has been targeted by muslim and catholic terrorists I assume thta as america funds the IRA they have a few of their own I can't help thinking the only safe airports are in Israel.
Actually, Israel's main airport, Ben Gurion, is in visual view from the hills of Samaria. Eilat's airstrip is within mortar distance of the nearby Jordanian border. Over a year ago, there was a Katyusha attack from Jordan, with one of the rockets hitting a street in Eilat, just slightly off target.

[bookworm_020]

This one got hit recently, but I can't find my MD-80 pic. This plane in the picture turned around and landed safely too though.

I found an isrealie airliner that got hit by a SAM too, but it also landed safely.

Maybe SA-7's are just good for taking out helo's. They don't seem to work on bigger jets.

-S

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/22/sprj.irq.main/story.plane.2.jpg

I think that was the DHL cargo plane that got hit when leaving Bagdad Airport. It managed to land (Just!) They managed to control the jet using just engines, as all hydrolics had been lost.

NASA, with the help of the US deparment of defence, developed software that could automaticly contol the aircraft using just the engines (Climb, dive and turn) a couple of years before the incident, but few airlines had taken up the software, as they saw it unessasary