View Full Version : Titanic Style Sinkings?
Tachyon
01-12-07, 06:36 AM
Now, I assume all of you have seen the movie "Titanic" , and in the movie...due to flooding, the ship's bow sinks forward, and eventually the Stern is at 90 degrees skyhigh. Then, the stern breaks apart... and down she goes.
Do ships sink in a similar fashion in SH3? I've never seen one. Most of the time, even though the stern is pointing up, it doesn't rip apart like the Titanic....and the ship makes a graceful swan dive into the depths.
If you've seen this occur, please post a screenshot. Thanks
Corsair
01-12-07, 06:46 AM
Like this one ?? :D
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/6240/gcs0013gq0.jpg
First of all...only very large ships are likely to sink in that way, and to break apart when the hull structure can not support itself anymore out of the water. Anyway...I've seen some nice sinkings in SH3 over the time.
Tachyon
01-12-07, 06:56 AM
Yeah Corsair, like that....but the Stern is supposed to rip apart....like in the movie...pretty awesome there.
The only thing SH3 Lacks is capsizing.
When the center of gravity is close to the water due to flooding it does not take much to capsize large ships.
I've seen ships capsizing...even in SH3 vanilla.
LeafsFan
01-12-07, 07:15 AM
I have seen capsizing, and more often, the stern high in the air type sinking.
HB
Jimbuna
01-12-07, 08:23 AM
Casizing is a definite (but not very common) feature in GWX :yep:
The Titantic was massive. 42,000 tons.
Not many ships in SH3 are that big.
When you've got a one-inch thick hull trying to support 20,000 tons of iron up in the air, something's going to give.
There are warships that big in SH3, but warships are much more strongly built than civilian ships and less likely to split apart.
Achtung Englander
01-12-07, 11:33 AM
apparently she broke up in the water - that was from eye witness accounts. She went underwater down in one piece and broke apart from water pressure as she was sinking
me thinks the film took some liberties for cinematic affect - although I am not 100% sure
Nippelspanner
01-12-07, 11:44 AM
Now, I assume all of you have seen the movie "Titanic" , and in the movie...due to flooding, the ship's bow sinks forward, and eventually the Stern is at 90 degrees skyhigh. Then, the stern breaks apart... and down she goes.
Do ships sink in a similar fashion in SH3? I've never seen one. Most of the time, even though the stern is pointing up, it doesn't rip apart like the Titanic....and the ship makes a graceful swan dive into the depths.
If you've seen this occur, please post a screenshot. Thanks
Not 100% correct...
The Titanic was breaking up before she went down. The bow part was pulling the stern part down a bit, then ripped of by weight...
http://www.charlespellegrino.com/images/sinking.jpg
Too bad: This isnt possible in SH3.
But Ships do yink very often with the stern in the air...
@Achtung Englander
me thinks the film took some liberties for cinematic affect - although I am not 100% sure
No. The Movie shows the correct* sinking of the Ship.
*As far as people can know...
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3707/sh3img1112007165739859zg2.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img1112007165739859zg2.jpg)
Nippelspanner
01-12-07, 12:19 PM
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3707/sh3img1112007165739859zg2.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img1112007165739859zg2.jpg)
Not very Titanic... :know:
fredbass
01-12-07, 12:51 PM
FYI
In the movie, the stern went down at a pretty good speed of descent, initially sucking the people below the waterline as we saw DiCaprio do, but in reality when the stern finally came down, it did so quite slowly allowing those were were clinging to that part of the ship to easily swim off without being pulled down with it.
:know:
Seeadler
01-12-07, 01:17 PM
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_6137666431396138.jpg
Jimbuna
01-12-07, 01:21 PM
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_6137666431396138.jpg
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I was a member of Titanic Historical society and now the current theory is the ship angled down by the bow between 12 to 35 degrees before breaking up in two completely except the keel which snapped after the ship left the surface. The movie almost have it right with added 10 degrees to the ship's tilt.
As for the ships doing that in sh3, well, u have to adjust the weakness of the hull in the game. The ships do capsize in the game by the way.
JayW.
I too have seen many ships capsize in stock SHIII when I used to play; they were usually Coastal Merchants and Small Merchants but I have also seen a couple of C2s and C3s capsize in one piece as well. Also, some non-stock ships such as the Large Cargo and Rose Castle have capsized occasionally. As for breaking in two from stress as opposed to an explosion, I don't think the game code can handle that kind of structural failure - it is probable that ships will never break in two in SHIII unless they are in the process of explosion. Maybe someone here knows more about it though.:hmm:
Tachyon
01-12-07, 02:56 PM
Not 100% correct...
The Titanic was breaking up before she went down. The bow part was pulling the stern part down a bit, then ripped of by weight...
Oh..looks like they took a few liberties with the movie... Dinsdale at work here.
Anyway, looks like this kind of stern ripping (one in the movie anyway) isn't modelled in sh3, too bad :( .
tycho102
01-12-07, 03:15 PM
Do ships sink in a similar fashion in SH3?
The Exxon Valdez did.
Ambitous bastards running the company? Check.
Encompassing disregard for safety? Check.
Poor navigational judgement? Check.
Major public-relations disaster? Check.
12-foot hull breech? Check.
But to answer your question, it depends on the breech. Modern anti-ship weapons are designed to snap the keel of most ships, because if you snap the keel, it's neutralized regardless of compartmentalization -- if it doesn't outright sink.
The Titanic was punctured at the bow, and the compartmentalization was less than airtight. Other vessels with similar characteristics (namely, container cargo vessels which have enormous cargo holds) could be made to sink in a similar manner -- either bow or stern first.
passenger: can this ship sink?
captain: of course not. its the titanic, unsinkable
*few hours later"
captain:OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD WE'RE GOING DOWN, ABANDON SHIP ABANDON SHIP
passenger: LIAR!!!!, I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT COULDN SINK
Sailor Steve
01-12-07, 04:01 PM
Nope, 46,329 tons and 269m :know:
That's the gross tonnage. What was the design tonnage?
Sailor Steve
01-12-07, 04:03 PM
passenger: can this ship sink?
captain: of course not. its the titanic, unsinkable
*few hours later"
captain:OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD WE'RE GOING DOWN, ABANDON SHIP ABANDON SHIP
passenger: LIAR!!!!, I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT COULDN SINK
I much prefer the line from the movie (reputed to be true):
Designer (who also went down with his ship): I'd say we have about six hours before she sinks.
Second Mate: Are you saying she CAN sink???
Designer: No, sir, I'm saying she WILL sink; and in about six hours.
Nippelspanner
01-12-07, 04:05 PM
Do ships sink in a similar fashion in SH3?
The Exxon Valdez did.
Uhm...really? Didnt the Exxon Valdex struck a reef? How can a big tanker sink Titanic-Stlye if the water is shallow? (It must be shallow because of the reef, right!?)
Ambitous bastards running the company? Check.
Encompassing disregard for safety? Check.
Poor navigational judgement? Check.
Major public-relations disaster? Check.
12-foot hull breech? Check.
:rotfl:
Sailor Steve
01-12-07, 04:16 PM
Exxon Valdez was repaired and given a double hull.
The Exxon Shipping Company was renamed Sea River Shipping Company. The Exxon Valdez ship was repaired and renamed the Sea River Mediterranean, and today hauls oil across the Atlantic. The tanker is prohibited by law from ever returning to Prince William Sound
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0318_040318_exxonvaldez_2.html
GSpector
01-12-07, 04:56 PM
Unsinkable was just media made stuff. If i remember correct, White Star Line never said that Titanic was unsinkable :hmm:
Actually, in the book "A Night to Remember". I do believe the quote came from one of the builders just before its lauch.
The full quote:
"GOD himself could not sink this ship".:know:
He was proven wrong before the Ship ever finished the maiden voyage.:cry:
Word of advice, even if you don't believe in a God, don't push your luck.
Unsinkable was just media made stuff. If i remember correct, White Star Line never said that Titanic was unsinkable :hmm:
Actually, in the book "A Night to Remember". I do believe the quote came from one of the builders just before its lauch.
The full quote:
"GOD himself could not sink this ship".:know:
He was proven wrong before the Ship ever finished the maiden voyage.:cry:
Word of advice, even if you don't believe in a God, don't push your luck.
lol id like too see that builders face when he heard that the titanic had sunk on its first trip:rotfl:
Blacklight
01-12-07, 07:01 PM
Maybe someone should model the Titanic for SH III. I know it's the wrong time period... but hey ! It would be fun running accross that thing steaming accross the Atlantic and to quote the above post... "OH THE TONNAGE !". Just say it's a "What If" kind of addition. Maybe even put our loving couple up on the bow !! Would be a lot of fun targeting them with that deck gun !!!
"I'M THE KING OF THE..... DUCK !!!" *BOOM !*:rock:
Nippelspanner
01-12-07, 07:07 PM
Maybe someone should model the Titanic for SH III. I know it's the wrong time period... but hey ! It would be fun running accross that thing steaming accross the Atlantic and to quote the above post... "OH THE TONNAGE !". Just say it's a "What If" kind of addition. Maybe even put our loving couple up on the bow !! Would be a lot of fun targeting them with that deck gun !!!
"I'M THE KING OF THE..... DUCK !!!" *BOOM !*:rock:
Maybe the Devīs were right, not to create a SIMULATION, but 90% of arcade BS...:damn:
I always loved the Ships of that period... ******* the AIDA, Queen Mary II and the "Freedom of the Seas"... All the real Ocean Liners are gone in my opinion...
Aynway. There is a Ttanic-Like Ship in GWX, it has at least 4 Funnels...
How many Sisters did the Titanic had? I know the Olympic and the Britannic, but one of them sunk during WW1 because of a Mine, right? And the other one? Maybe one of the Sisters was still active during WW2...?
Deep-Six
01-12-07, 08:00 PM
The Olympic was the only one to sink a U-boat in WWI.
The U-Boat was U-103.:D
The Noob
01-12-07, 08:41 PM
"GOD himself could not sink this ship".:know:
Appearently this line got him so pissed that he sent an iceberg in the way.. pwned.
And the other one? Maybe one of the Sisters was still active during WW2...?
The Titanic had only one sister, the RMS Olympic. However, she was broken up for scrap in 1936.:cry: You'll see that this was the fate of most of the great liners of the early-20th century - they were old and worn out and the threat of war only became apparent after they had already been discarded.:nope: The only four funneled liner left by WWII was the Cunard Liner Aquitania. She survived the war to be scrapped around 1951.
BTW - the Britannic indeed was sunk by a mine in WWI while serving as a hospital ship, although it is possible that she was sunk by a U-Boat (forget which one). It has never been proven exactly what happened.
GSpector
01-12-07, 09:41 PM
"GOD himself could not sink this ship".:know:
Appearently this line got him so pissed that he sent an iceberg in the way.. pwned.
Tempt fate a see what happens.;)
The iceberg; when the Titanic struck it, was farther South then it should have been for its size. It must have been enormus when it started its journey:hmm:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Picture/6557/theberg.jpg
This May Be The Actual Iceberg Struck By Titanic On April 14, 1912Source:http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Picture/6557/herstory.html
In the Book, "A Night to Remember", there is a B/W picture where there is clearly a mysterious Red Stripe (Dark grey in photo) that could be seen at the water level, The picture in the book (Not sure if it's the same iceberg above) was taken by a guy in a small boat that just thought it was odd to see the Red Stripe. He had not heard of the accident at the time he took the picture and the Iceberg was not at the same location the next day.
I wish I still had the book.
Here's a pic of a real Iceberg:
http://suzyred.com/iceburg.jpgSource:http://suzyred.com/iceburg.html
GSpector
01-12-07, 09:55 PM
Titanic's Lost Sister
Few realize that the Titanic had two nearly identical sister ships, the Olympic and the Britannic. The Olympic had a successful career as a liner until she was broken up in 1935, but the Britannic met with a fate nearly as unlucky as that of the Titanic. Serving as a hospital ship in the Aegean, it was either torpedoed or the victim of a mine on November 21, 1916, and sank within an hour. Thirty out of its crew died.
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/listseason/24.html#2402
Yes, the Olympic was scrapped in 1935 and not 1936 as I stated earlier.:nope: Trying to type while trying to concentrate on CSI:Miami can result in stupid errors on my part.:shifty:
Nippelspanner
01-12-07, 10:09 PM
@AG124
Olympic
Titanic
Britannic
Looks like she had 2 Sisters?
Yes, that is correct. I meant to say one sister which survived the war - believe me, I have many, many books on the Titanic and general shipwrecks and know all about the Britannic.:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn: These kinds of idiotic errors are what one gets when one stands over a laptop at 11:00 PM and glancing at a TV screen with headphones on and the volume turned up to 70 all at the same time.:damn::damn::damn: I will slink away in shame now with a well-deserved dunce hat on...
BTW, to make myself look a little more intelligent, I will point out that White Star originally intended to name the Britannic Gigantic - I have promotional illustrations of her under that name in some of my books at home. Interesting to note that she never did serve as a passenger liner like her sisters - her wartime 'careeer' took care of that. Also, she displaced more than the other two, due to her reconstruction to higher safety standards. Also, her wreck still displays the design of the class quite well to this day - only the bow (forward of the bridge), the funnels, and the bridge itself were destroyed and the hull didn't break in two (as the bow hit the ocean floor before the stern left the surface). Robert Ballard has recently considered attaching cameras to her to set up a type of historical underwater museum - kind of surprising considering his attitude to Titanic museums - might be because of the salvaging involved in the Titanic cases. Wasn't him who discovered the Britannic though, it was Jacques Cousteau in the 1970s).
Now, please correct any horrible errors I have made - Law & Order is on now, and I am still not really paying attention to what I am writting.:doh:
GSpector
01-12-07, 11:43 PM
AG124:
Quote: "BTW, to make myself look a little more intelligent, I will point out that White Star originally intended to name the Britannic Gigantic "
Yes, you redeemed yourself. I was going to mention it in the list above as a side note but decided not to. I'm glad you did.
I had lost all the reference material I had a few years back and hope someday to get some back. Probably through Ebay:cry:
I remember when I was about 13, there was a "Build Your Own" book that was published. When taken apart and assembled built a 5' Titanic. There was even a paper Iceberg to build:D
I gave the paper model to my father. According to one of my brothers, it was moved to our fathers new house and put on display for guest to see. Since then, he has moved again but I don't nkow if he took it with him
Nippelspanner
01-13-07, 02:36 PM
Yes, that is correct. I meant to say one sister which survived the war - believe me, I have many, many books on the Titanic and general shipwrecks and know all about the Britannic.:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn: These kinds of idiotic errors are what one gets when one stands over a laptop at 11:00 PM and glancing at a TV screen with headphones on and the volume turned up to 70 all at the same time.:damn::damn::damn: I will slink away in shame now with a well-deserved dunce hat on...
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Dont worry mate, I still believe in you... :up:
andy_311
01-13-07, 10:13 PM
What's the comotion as far as I know The Brittanic got took out by a mine laid by a uboat so the story goes, there's a Lus ship in sh3 somewhere I never met her 4 stacker,4 screws, and 40k plus tonnage.and that's the closest your going to get to takeing out the Titanic,unless you can take the date back around 28 years then you can take her out (somebody did it before don't know if it was on this forum or the ubi one )
UBOAT234 made that 4 funneled liner - he had the Lusitania in mind, but since he didn't remodel the superstructure the liner doesn't look exactly like the Lusitania anyway. Right now, she could fill in for the Aquitania (which is her role in GWX).
Speaking of UBOAT234, have you seen the excellent work which he is doing with the Queen Mary in the SHIII Mods Forum?:hmm:
What's the comotion as far as I know The Brittanic got took out by a mine laid by a uboat so the story goes,
To this day, there are still some who believe that the Britannic was illegally torpedoed, and that the mine story was a cover up by the Germans. Either Jacques Cousteau or Robert Ballard (or both) look for the mine's anchor but were unable to find anything (although that does not disprove its existence, as it could be buried under silt now).
This was during night (October 30th, 1942, nera Newfoundland) so I had to edit the pictures to actually see something.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3792/linersinks2nd6.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7623/linersinks3zr0.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3608/linersinks4xx7.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5685/linersinks5vz5.jpg
Jimbuna
01-14-07, 07:49 AM
Glad you went to the bother Saukko...they were well worth seeing :up:
Strangely enough this happened with, of all things, the small tanker in the torpedo naval academy mission the other night......started to sink bow down, then snapped in half and exploded.
No screenshots, unfortunately.
Warmonger
02-03-07, 02:43 AM
I was on patrol en route to my assigned grid when W of Scotland my sonarman got 2 warship contacts. Turned out to be 2 unescorted light cruisers, 1 Dido and 1 Southhampton class! :doh:
Fired 2 at each from quite some distance but only 1 torp hit the HMS Southampton right in the bow. First it didn't react at all so I thought this had been a waste of torps but suddenly I get the "She's going down" message. So I switched to ext. camera and this is what I saw:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Warmonger2/southtanic1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Warmonger2/southtanic2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Warmonger2/Southtanic2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Warmonger2/Southtanic3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Warmonger2/southtanic3.jpg
Puster Bill
02-03-07, 10:46 AM
UBOAT234 made that 4 funneled liner - he had the Lusitania in mind, but since he didn't remodel the superstructure the liner doesn't look exactly like the Lusitania anyway. Right now, she could fill in for the Aquitania (which is her role in GWX).
Speaking of UBOAT234, have you seen the excellent work which he is doing with the Queen Mary in the SHIII Mods Forum?:hmm:
What's the comotion as far as I know The Brittanic got took out by a mine laid by a uboat so the story goes,
To this day, there are still some who believe that the Britannic was illegally torpedoed, and that the mine story was a cover up by the Germans. Either Jacques Cousteau or Robert Ballard (or both) look for the mine's anchor but were unable to find anything (although that does not disprove its existence, as it could be buried under silt now).
You have to remember the animosity the British had for the Germans at the time of WWI. If the Britannic had been torpedoed by a u-boat, that would be a war crime as it was a properly marked hospital ship, sunk on a bright sunny day (so no excuses about 'poor visibility through periscope'). Attributing war crimes to the brutal 'Hun' was practically a national sport in Britain at the time, so it is easy to see how many would automatically assume it was torpedoed.
However, the evidence is pretty clear that it was a mine.
U-73 laid mines in that area prior to the sinking, and in 2003 an expedition led by Carl Spencer found a number of mine anchors in the area.
emtmedic005
02-03-07, 12:07 PM
Most of the ships i sink just go down in one peice, usually. But when ever i hit a ship right in the middle, then it usually breaks into two parts, one part usually sinks but the other part stays up at a near 90 degree position until slowly it travels to the depths.
However, the evidence is pretty clear that it was a mine.
U-73 laid mines in that area prior to the sinking, and in 2003 an expedition led by Carl Spencer found a number of mine anchors in the area..
Yes, you are correct. Although Robert Ballard was unable to locate the mine's anchor, I was reading an article last week which said that a more recent expedition recovered a number of them, putting the controversy to rest.:yep:
@ Warmonger: Nice one, mate! I really like that "Texas Tea" on the surface, but someone should make those oilspills a lot bigger..
Warmonger
02-03-07, 02:26 PM
Aha that's supposed to be oil then? I was wondering what these colored spots could be.:hmm:
Nippelspanner
02-03-07, 02:45 PM
@ Warmonger: Nice one, mate! I really like that "Texas Tea" on the surface, but someone should make those oilspills a lot bigger..
Its possible with the SH3 Tweaker... but I funno how...if I would know, I would make all those effects lasting MUCH longer...so oilspots and co. rest longer... so you really can see a "aftermath" after a nice convoy battle...
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