GWX - How to tune down destroyers?

[tmdgm]

Is there a way to tune down destroyers with GWX? When a destroyer spots me from 8000 meters, tracks me and sinks me at silent running, IN 1939!!!! :rotfl:, doesn't sound much like the history books. 1943 and later, probably.

Anyhoo, just wondering.

[Iron Budokan]

Nope, you just have to learn to take it up the *** without soap like the rest of us.:rotfl:

[fredbass]

Is there a way to tune down destroyers with GWX? When a destroyer spots me from 8000 meters, tracks me and sinks me at silent running, IN 1939!!!! :rotfl:, doesn't sound much like the history books. 1943 and later, probably.

Anyhoo, just wondering.

Just make sure you're running at 2k speed when running silent. The Dec23rd fix has changed that automatically for you, if you haven't enabled it already.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Is there a way to tune down destroyers with GWX? When a destroyer spots me from 8000 meters, tracks me and sinks me at silent running, IN 1939!!!! :rotfl:, doesn't sound much like the history books. 1943 and later, probably.

Anyhoo, just wondering.

Read page 10 in your GWX manual.

[cobalt]

quick question

in gwx late war, does the asdic used by the allies get stronger and ping deeper?

[andy_311]

Trust me come late 44-45 you raise that periscope just an inch and your stealth meter goes redder than a beetroot.I had 7 Fletchers on my back last night,and they wern't very happy to see me,then a bit later I had anouther 7 on my back.(story is in the video thread posted it in the wrong thread).

[HundertzehnGustav]

i fiddled with the gwx sensors... and am pleased with the results...

so i take it i put it on the web for people to take?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

quick question

in gwx late war, does the asdic used by the allies get stronger and ping deeper?

Both enemy crews and sensor tech become more effective.

[Corsair]

Is there a way to tune down destroyers with GWX? When a destroyer spots me from 8000 meters, tracks me and sinks me at silent running, IN 1939!!!! :rotfl:, doesn't sound much like the history books. 1943 and later, probably.

Anyhoo, just wondering.

If a destroyer spotted you that far away, you surely did something you shouldn't have done. Just start thinking realistic tactics...:D

[Ole]

i got the same problem. i had no torpedos left, and a small merchant with an armed trawler were spotted (distance over 6500m). i decided to dive, stopped the engines and wanted to let them pass. the trawler found me, directly when distance was about 3000m. my engines were off, i switched to schleichfahrt before, so no torpedos were loading or repair was done.
he dropped what he had with him, i made my depth to 100m, i tried to avoid showing a big silhouette. he had no problems to find me again and again.
i mean, that was an armed trawler and its still 1940.
what can i do? i don´t want an easy gameplay, but it should be realistic, plz :cry:

[Jimbuna]

Nope, you just have to learn to take it up the *** without soap like the rest of us.:rotfl:

OMG :o

Mine remains a funnel...and certainly not a tunnel:rotfl:

[melnibonian]

Nope, you just have to learn to take it up the *** without soap like the rest of us.:rotfl:

OMG :o

Mine remains a funnel...and certainly not a tunnel:rotfl:
Classic as always Jim:up: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Kumando]

I dont seem to find any problems with destroyers in GWX you people claim, im in 1939, i did my first patrol had many encounters with destroyers and only one managed to damage my aft torpedo tubes, i could evade all the others running silent, deep whean i had the chance and always changing course for not being predictable.I had no difficulties at all and im a newbie player, maybe as the years go by this will change.

[melnibonian]

Problems with DDs do not occur in 1939, but later in the war. After 1943 evading a DD is a real challenge. Early in the war things are sort of OK and if you're a bit careful you can avoid them without a real problem. Later though..........

[Jimbuna]

Nope, you just have to learn to take it up the *** without soap like the rest of us.:rotfl:

OMG :o

Mine remains a funnel...and certainly not a tunnel:rotfl:
Classic as always Jim:up: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:roll: ;)

[Kumando]

Problems with DDs do not occur in 1939, but later in the war. After 1943 evading a DD is a real challenge. Early in the war things are sort of OK and if you're a bit careful you can avoid them without a real problem. Later though..........

But thats the way it was back then ;).

[Oesten]

i got the same problem. i had no torpedos left, and a small merchant with an armed trawler were spotted (distance over 6500m). i decided to dive, stopped the engines and wanted to let them pass. the trawler found me, directly when distance was about 3000m. my engines were off, i switched to schleichfahrt before, so no torpedos were loading or repair was done.
he dropped what he had with him, i made my depth to 100m, i tried to avoid showing a big silhouette. he had no problems to find me again and again.
i mean, that was an armed trawler and its still 1940.
what can i do? i don´t want an easy gameplay, but it should be realistic, plz :cry:

Your engines were off, so the trawler couldn't have heard you. Fine.

But was your periscope up? If so, maybe he spotted it and came to investigate.

[Morts]

if you have full Hull go down to 200+ meters (if the depth allows it) with flank speed while zigzaggin a little then when you're past 170 go silent running (2 kts) and stop zigzaggin
helps alot i have avoided alot of destroyers down there

i dont really know any shallow water tactics since i dont go there
and i dont go to harbors either since water is shallow there to

[Vikinger]

Download a program called SH3 Mini Tweaker.

Whitin that program you can change the file AI sensor dat.

Ive tuned down a few values my self there coz i found it impossible to escape an elite crew on a DD. Its not easy to get rid of them but its possible now whit some tactical maneouvers.

Things i changed was hydrophone, sonar and visual.
I changed maxbearing to be little more narrow and that allow me to do tactical manevours. I also tuned down max range and increased min range a bit.
Now they dont spot me from 9km away and if they find me the minimum range simulate a "dead" zone so they aproximitly know where iam. Hard to pin point exact where iam like they where using a gps navigatior :)

I also tuned down Min height values for underwater. I noticed that even if i dived so deep so my sub was crusched the range for Min height was greater than the sub crusch depth. (this was in a VIIC)

I dunno if my values reflect realism but its possible to escape now by going deep(but not to deep so my sub is crusched and it also allow me to have some minor hulldamage as well) and do tactical maneouvers ( stay out from thier max bearing range)
And also that they can`t pinpoint me exactly where iam.

[Hartmann]

I dont seem to find any problems with destroyers in GWX you people claim, im in 1939, i did my first patrol had many encounters with destroyers and only one managed to damage my aft torpedo tubes, i could evade all the others running silent, deep whean i had the chance and always changing course for not being predictable.I had no difficulties at all and im a newbie player, maybe as the years go by this will change.

for this 1939 -40 was called "happy times"

Allies don´t use radars and they set depth charges not very deep.also asw tecnology was not very advanced, and planes availability very limited.

until 41 or more could be very difficult if not impossible heard a stopped submarine at some distance with passive hidrophones in silent running.
(no engines and screws turning, pumps stopped,everybody quiet and silent)

Later, with better active asdic, enigma codes and pouring planes over the atlantic sea allies can turning the tide in the war.

[Ole]

i got the same problem. i had no torpedos left, and a small merchant with an armed trawler were spotted (distance over 6500m). i decided to dive, stopped the engines and wanted to let them pass. the trawler found me, directly when distance was about 3000m. my engines were off, i switched to schleichfahrt before, so no torpedos were loading or repair was done.
he dropped what he had with him, i made my depth to 100m, i tried to avoid showing a big silhouette. he had no problems to find me again and again.
i mean, that was an armed trawler and its still 1940.
what can i do? i don´t want an easy gameplay, but it should be realistic, plz :cry:
Your engines were off, so the trawler couldn't have heard you. Fine.

But was your periscope up? If so, maybe he spotted it and came to investigate.
i dived after my crew spotted the trawler, the periscop was down. that was a bit strange, maybe they´re using "Bernard - the medium": "I can feel him, Sir. Go flank, left 20° and drop on my command...!" (huh, sounds like the soap-story from above :rotfl:)

[dougandtoni]

i fiddled with the gwx sensors... and am pleased with the results...

so i take it i put it on the web for people to take?

Yes I would be interested

[Tachyon]

for this 1039 -40 was called "happy times"
!?

:o

Ok, enough fooling around...I totally agree with you

[andy_311]

I dont seem to find any problems with destroyers in GWX you people claim, im in 1939, i did my first patrol had many encounters with destroyers and only one managed to damage my aft torpedo tubes, i could evade all the others running silent, deep whean i had the chance and always changing course for not being predictable.I had no difficulties at all and im a newbie player, maybe as the years go by this will change.

Now try it with 9 Fletcher DD's in Late 44 as they come at you at 35knts.

[Hartmann]

for this 1039 -40 was called "happy times"
!?

:o

Ok, enough fooling around...I totally agree with you

is 1939-1940 :lol: edited and corrected

[Corsair]

I dont seem to find any problems with destroyers in GWX you people claim, im in 1939, i did my first patrol had many encounters with destroyers and only one managed to damage my aft torpedo tubes, i could evade all the others running silent, deep whean i had the chance and always changing course for not being predictable.I had no difficulties at all and im a newbie player, maybe as the years go by this will change.
Now try it with 9 Fletcher DD's in Late 44 as they come at you at 35knts.

I'm usually dead before that time...:cry:

[sergbuto]

for this 1939 -40 was called "happy times"

Allies don´t use radars and they set depth charges not very deep.also asw tecnology was not very advanced, and planes availability very limited.

Yes, they would not call those times "happy" if U-boat captains had to dive to 200 meters and go for silent running every time they would detect a DD at 8000 meters, would it?

[oRGy]

Seems to be the only thing that doesn't sound right about GWX to me; though since I don't play SH3 anymore, I can't confirm.

[bigboywooly]

Doesnt affect me in that way
Was only spotted yesterday while 2km from a convoy as I was ahead full decks awash
Silent running 80m and they left
I harassed the convoy all throuh the night with no damage taken till I ran out of fish

Even crept up a lone merc at 700m decks awash in the evening at ahead slow
He didnt know I was there till I opened fire on him

Nov 1940

[tmdgm]

Download a program called SH3 Mini Tweaker.

Whitin that program you can change the file AI sensor dat.

Ive tuned down a few values my self there coz i found it impossible to escape an elite crew on a DD. Its not easy to get rid of them but its possible now whit some tactical maneouvers.

Things i changed was hydrophone, sonar and visual.
I changed maxbearing to be little more narrow and that allow me to do tactical manevours. I also tuned down max range and increased min range a bit.
Now they dont spot me from 9km away and if they find me the minimum range simulate a "dead" zone so they aproximitly know where iam. Hard to pin point exact where iam like they where using a gps navigatior :)

I also tuned down Min height values for underwater. I noticed that even if i dived so deep so my sub was crusched the range for Min height was greater than the sub crusch depth. (this was in a VIIC)

I dunno if my values reflect realism but its possible to escape now by going deep(but not to deep so my sub is crusched and it also allow me to have some minor hulldamage as well) and do tactical maneouvers ( stay out from thier max bearing range)
And also that they can`t pinpoint me exactly where iam.

Thanks Viking. Do you have a guide on what to change, which files and what you changed things to? Haven't done this so let's assume I'm a dummy. ;)

Boy, didn't think this thread would cause such a fuss. But I would like to turn a few settings down. At least till I get better. Don't want it to be easy, but also don't want it to see a destroyer and die type of playing in 1939. Past 1942, I'm good with learning a few hard lessons.

[Vikinger]

Download a program called SH3 Mini Tweaker.

Whitin that program you can change the file AI sensor dat.

Ive tuned down a few values my self there coz i found it impossible to escape an elite crew on a DD. Its not easy to get rid of them but its possible now whit some tactical maneouvers.

Things i changed was hydrophone, sonar and visual.
I changed maxbearing to be little more narrow and that allow me to do tactical manevours. I also tuned down max range and increased min range a bit.
Now they dont spot me from 9km away and if they find me the minimum range simulate a "dead" zone so they aproximitly know where iam. Hard to pin point exact where iam like they where using a gps navigatior :)

I also tuned down Min height values for underwater. I noticed that even if i dived so deep so my sub was crusched the range for Min height was greater than the sub crusch depth. (this was in a VIIC)

I dunno if my values reflect realism but its possible to escape now by going deep(but not to deep so my sub is crusched and it also allow me to have some minor hulldamage as well) and do tactical maneouvers ( stay out from thier max bearing range)
And also that they can`t pinpoint me exactly where iam.

Thanks Viking. Do you have a guide on what to change, which files and what you changed things to? Haven't done this so let's assume I'm a dummy. ;)

Boy, didn't think this thread would cause such a fuss. But I would like to turn a few settings down. At least till I get better. Don't want it to be easy, but also don't want it to see a destroyer and die type of playing in 1939. Past 1942, I'm good with learning a few hard lessons.

Yeah check this thread.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=385737#post385737

And the file you should look for when you have installed the program etc is:
Ai_Sensor_dat.txt

[joea]

Did you guys read Bigboywooly's post? You can get close to enemy ships in "untweaked" GWX.

[Wulfmann]

Come on guys, don't pussy foot GWX.

Instead become better, more realistic Kaleuns.

Be men, not mice. Stop squeaking.:nope:

Keep a record of what you do on a couple patrols and some here will analyze and make suggestions.:yep:

Wie sagt mann das auf Deutsch “ Girly men”:rotfl:

Wulfmann

[fredbass]

for this 1939 -40 was called "happy times"

Allies don´t use radars and they set depth charges not very deep.also asw tecnology was not very advanced, and planes availability very limited.

Yes, they would not call those times "happy" if U-boat captains had to dive to 200 meters and go for silent running every time they would detect a DD at 8000 meters, would it?

I'm in August of 40. It's still the happy times for me. I've never dived below 130m yet to avoid DD's with little to no damage almost every time. During my last convoy attack, there ended up being 6 warships looking for me and depth charging me. I couldn't go deeper than 90m and I slipped away rather easily. And I don't have to rig for silent running at 8000 meters either. It's more like half that, actually.

[demowhc]

I had exactly the same problem in GWX 1939, a destroyer was around 7 - 8km away and i dived to max depth, ran in silent mode and made a few course changes and the destroyer had no problem finding me...


but then iv encountered other destroyers and and they have just gone by so i dunno, maybe there a couple uber destroyers floating around...

[Vikinger]

I had exactly the same problem in GWX 1939, a destroyer was around 7 - 8km away and i dived to max depth, ran in silent mode and made a few course changes and the destroyer had no problem finding me...


but then iv encountered other destroyers and and they have just gone by so i dunno, maybe there a couple uber destroyers floating around...

I guess you encounterd the difference between Elite crews and poor crews on thos destroyers. :)

A DD whit Elite crew would never gived up so easily :)

[demowhc]

ah i see, damn 1337 crews :ping:

[bigboywooly]

IIRC there are no elite DD in 39\40

Have a read through the Bdu KTB and see how simple and easy it was

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB.htm

57 uboats available at war start and in the next 3 months 9 were sunk
24 sunk in 40

Happy times for some
Not for all

Plus if you read the KTB you can see how many boats came back early on with no sinkings and how many Belgium/Swedish and Greek ships were sunk even in 39
Neutral :rotfl:



U 46 reported a convoy of 20 ships escorted by 12 destroyers, on a main course northeast. Boat was shadowing, lost contact for a while, regained it and shadowed until afternoon. Then English costal radio stations received reports of the torpedoing of 2 ships. At 2000 U 37 reported: convoy scattered, one ship sunk. She must therefore have reached the convoy. After the convoy had scattered, contact was lost. In order to regain it, U 37 ordered a reconnaissance line to be formed the following morning which is intended to pick up the convoy from the northeast. At 0029 U 48 sighted the enemy again. She reported: "A straggler sunk. A second straggler steering a northerly course in square 6789 BE. All torpedoes used." The boat shadowed this ship. At 0500 U 37 gave the order to act on U 48's report, thus canceling the order for a reconnaissance line. At first light U 48 again sighted the convoy, which had apparently reassembled meanwhile. At 0630 a second U-boat was reported in sight of a ship. Therefore at least one more boat had reached the enemy on U 48's shadower's report. Towards midday a/c appeared, contact was lost. U 37 ordered the boats which had been driven off to go to position "SCHWARZ".



U 46 encountered a fresh convoy of 15 ships, but she was soon driven off by destroyers and lost contact.



U 37 reports: 2 ships sunk today off Gibraltar, one Q ship hit. Depth charged for 9 hours. Fuel running out. Starting return passage.



U 34 sank a steamer from a convoy off the west entrance to the Channel, torpedoed 3 others, but could not observe results owing to anti-S/M activity



A radio message from U 45, intercepted by another boat on 14th October, has now reached B.d.U. It was not received here.
"B.d.U. from U 45: 3 large darkened steamers, 15 knots, sunk. Am chasing a 4th steamer 3366 to 3355 BRT."
This is the last news of this boat. At any rate the enemy paid dearly for her loss.


U45 - http://uboat.net/boats/u45.htm

All of those quotes above are from Oct 39
Happy times all round eh

[Sixpack]

Same here (playing the major sub sims since 99).

Sound stealthy tactics, considerable wind and waves, etc. (so never mind that) and destroyer like 8000 m away finds me.

'Some ueber destroyers/corvettes out there' as someone mentioned sounds quite plausible to me ;)

Anyway, otherwise a great ride this GWX. My big thanks for it. And keep fine-tuning if you pleaz, mates.

PS I still need to read the GWX manual. Looks promising.

[Vikinger]

Yeah darn thos krauts that sink neutral ships :D

Ive read about a few ships that was sunk, that was built in the shipyard in the town i live :)

Anyway. If i dont recall wrong there was an issue when the game was released whit elite crews on DD early in the war but i think it was modded away or patched.

Altough on my first mission i did whit gwx at the start of the war, i had a DD that behaved like an elite crew. I tryed for over 1 hour real time to shake him of me but it was impossible. It ended up that i dived to deep and my hull crusched.
It didint matter what maneouver i did or how fast or slow or shallow or deep i did go. he allways had track on me like he had placed a signal transmitter on my hull :)

After this incident ive never encounter any DD that was so impossible as this was. And now iam at the start of 1942.

[Torpex752]

Not a complaint, just an observation.....I was detected by an armed TUG boat at 2800 meters! I was going slow in a type II at 2 knots...I have to admit I was suprised that every time I raised the scope the TUG had a zero angle on the bow indicating to me that it was homing straight in on me even while I was submerged.

Frank :cool:

[Wulfmann]

I have changed neutral ships from -1 to 1 in the cfg file so I do not get slammed for sinking them.
CFG folder basic file
[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=250
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=500
CompletedPatrol=500
NEUTRAL=1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
My reason (as BBW referred) was neutrals making for the enemy port was a legit target as well as those in UK bound convoys. A Yank tanker making for the UK is certainly a fair target and being penalized on a technicality will not due, IMO.
However, I adhere to strict personal guidelines on this. When south of Spain I identify ships before attacking or do not attack. I often let small groups of 2-3 fat ones by that are neutral away from the legit war zone or that can not be identified as certainly making for the English.
As for poor crews I have actually edited my RND so all are vet crews (3 rated). My feeling is equipment upgrades increase the enemy as the war progresses and making them easy early does not reflect real loses (again as BBW referred)
I have made a couple sensors a little tougher based on past settings I was happy with but left the few GWX made a tad tougher to see if they were right. So far so good.
While in past installs I had to remake all the sensors etc GWX is very close to what I did and if I had not spent so much time in this area I would not consider tweaking this fine work at all. While opinions may vary GWX is a close to perfect as SH3 will likely get and I believe getting to be a better Kaleun will solve more problems than gaming up the files.
Wulfmann

[bigboywooly]

Not a complaint, just an observation.....I was detected by an armed TUG boat at 2800 meters! I was going slow in a type II at 2 knots...I have to admit I was suprised that every time I raised the scope the TUG had a zero angle on the bow indicating to me that it was homing straight in on me even while I was submerged.

Frank :cool:

Just because he was heading in your direction doesnt mean you were detected
Could easily have been a normal waypoint change
Popping up your scope will lead you to get detected however
Armed tug or DD the crew still have eyes lol

[HunterICX]

:huh:the U45.....Well...I changed history :smug:

Still alive in the U45 in July 1940

[Kpt. Lehmann]

:huh:the U45.....Well...I changed history :smug:

Still alive in the U45 in July 1940

"Stayin' Alive in U-45!"

Sounds like a new hit song from the boys in the forward torpedo room! :up: :up: :up:

(I read somewhere here too that someone was going to put a disco ball and mirror floors in their U-boat. I hope I get invited to the party!!! :arrgh!: )

[melnibonian]

(I read somewhere here too that someone was going to put a disco ball and mirror floors in their U-boat. I hope I get invited to the party!!! :arrgh!: )
Only if you bring the beers:o ;) :p :p It's like this add on TV: 'No Martini No Party';) :D :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Torpex752]

Not a complaint, just an observation.....I was detected by an armed TUG boat at 2800 meters! I was going slow in a type II at 2 knots...I have to admit I was suprised that every time I raised the scope the TUG had a zero angle on the bow indicating to me that it was homing straight in on me even while I was submerged.

Frank :cool:

Just because he was heading in your direction doesnt mean you were detected
Could easily have been a normal waypoint change
Popping up your scope will lead you to get detected however
Armed tug or DD the crew still have eyes lol

I stood watch as a contact coordinator on 2 classes of submarines, I can assure you that at 28 hunderd meters the only way to spot a WWII attack scope that was raised for 6 seconds is to be looking exactly where it is when its raised. The initial detection was by sonar, sorry that capability is highly questionable in my experience. I can assure that passively, that detection would be 97% impossible, especially with the surface duct working the way it would in a real ocean enviroment. I have seen modern passive sonar miss a surface ship that was 1000 yards away! I can almost guarantee that that capability is far above and beyond what was capable in 1940, even under good conditions. Not saying a fluke detection isnt possible, hell I'll tell ya I heard and seen some strange stuff out there, but the norm is not that good. Now if he was pinging me, I wouldnt be surprised at that capability, but I just doubt how well a TUG was equipped in 1940.

Call me a skeptic! :D

Frank :cool:

[bigboywooly]

Skeptic
:rotfl:

[Ping Jockey]

The Asdic system in use in 1939 was unable to determine depth of a Sub. When the Sonar system came out in late '42 or '43 it could determine the depth of the Sub.I read this somewhere.I have gotten away from the escorts by going to 180 meters and shuting the motors off.(This works sometimes.) GWX is like a new game and a real challenge. Gotta luv it.:damn:

[Corsair]

I don't know if the Royal Navy used to send their dumbest crews in the Med, but after 2 patrols from Salamis - end 41 - I was not detected one single time, although I had DDs passing nearby and even directly overhead. Each time I was either at low depth - less than 20m - or around 90/100m going 2 knots silent running. Of course they didn't know I was there -no prior action - so they were not in search mode.

[Jimbuna]

I don't know if the Royal Navy used to send their dumbest crews in the Med, but after 2 patrols from Salamis - end 41 - I was not detected one single time, although I had DDs passing nearby and even directly overhead. Each time I was either at low depth - less than 20m - or around 90/100m going 2 knots silent running. Of course they didn't know I was there -no prior action - so they were not in search mode.

I wonder if that 'dumness' would of turned to something a little more challenging had they been the slightest bit aware of you and therefore gone into 'search/awareness' mode :hmm: :up:

[Corsair]

Just wanted to express the fact that even in 1941, the british navy DDs are not the almighty, all seeing and "über" boats some people say they are...:D

[Ducimus]

If you really want to dumb down the AI, all you have to do is increase the detecton time for hydrophones and sonar in the sim.cfg.

[Torpex752]

I myself wouldnt want to dumb the AI down, it seems that others are having random encounters of AI that is not so smart. I can digest the TUG having detected me from that range, I just dont agree with it being able to track me exactly each time I make a fractional peek with the scope. I dont get that, and since I dont know how to fix it just yet I will humble deal with it.

On a seperate note, I would like to know which and where the file is that gave the sub so much positive bouyancy. I'd like to fool with that a bit to see if I can get it closer to my RL experience. I think that it may be screwed, because it really can go any way, positive, negative or neutral. I hope that in SH4 they factor in a little more sub simulation. :)

Frank :cool:

[Tigrone]

"If you really want to dumb down the AI, all you have to do is increase the detecton time for hydrophones and sonar in the sim.cfg." Ducimus

Ducimus,
What do the lines look like, and to what would one change them? Where is sim.cfg located?

[tmdgm]

Vikinger, not sure if you remember, but what about settings did you change the sonar/hydrophones to? I have the file opened, but not sure how far to go with it.

[Ducimus]

"If you really want to dumb down the AI, all you have to do is increase the detecton time for hydrophones and sonar in the sim.cfg." Ducimus

Ducimus,
What do the lines look like, and to what would one change them? Where is sim.cfg located?

File is:

sh3/data/cfg/SIM.CFG

I dont have it in front of me, but you'll find a line that says, "Detection time =" under blocks labeled Hydrophone and Sonar. THey'll be the last two blocks in the file.

If i remember correctly, detection time for Sonar is 10, and detection time for hydrophone is 2.

To understand what these settings do, you have to understand how detection works.

In the case of (active) sonar. In order for the AI to ping you have to :
1.) Be within his sonar's "cone". or otherwise be within the geometry of the beam projected.

2.) be presenting a favorable aspect, thereby showing more surface area to ping off of. (IE he has you broadside vs bows on)

3.) Be doing both 1 and 2 for X amount of time. That X amount of time is the Detection time.

Stock game i think this value was around 20 or 30 (seconds). Which was one reason why in stock Sh3, you didnt get pinged very often. 20-30 seconds is often more then plenty of time to get out of the sonar's cone or change your aspect.

On a side note, once you understand how the AI works, getting pinged isnt a cause of concern. It just means you screwed up. If you didnt screw up, he wouldnt be pinging. The AI doesnt just ping at random.

[LeafsFan]

I am not changing the ASW AI in GWX. It seems similar to AOTD from my experience.


HB

[Vikinger]

Vikinger, not sure if you remember, but what about settings did you change the sonar/hydrophones to? I have the file opened, but not sure how far to go with it.

Its best to understand what the different settings are for then you can change it to you own liking.

Lets take Ai hydrophone:

MinRange: Is in metric value. if you increase this value a bit the Enemy ship have harder to pinpoint you exactly where you are. Means the depthcharges wont be so accurate. If they go below this value they will loos track of you meaning they have to guess a bit.

Max range is metric also. And is how far away they can spot you.

Max height is metric and reflect how deep down they can spot you. I prefer to have this little shallow than my estimated crusch depth. Dont forget the negative value. that means its below the surface.

Min height is same. Tells starting depth to spot you / depthcharge

Min bearing should be at 0
Max bearing is measured in degrees. the closer you set this value to 0 then the enemy have a more narrower search area. 0 is thier heding and 180 is behind them, if you have it set to 140 degrees. Means thier search area will go in a cone shape. So they will have some deadzon ( 140-180 degrees more or less behind the ship)where they have hard to track you/hear you if you stay out of thier limitation.

Min and max elevation. is measured in degrees and tells about the vertical detection

bearing is on the horizontal plane and height is on the vertical plane.

Well this is how i understand how it works but of course i might be wrong. Iam not an expert at all in this and i know there are guys that know far more than i do in this out there. :)

[Ducimus]

I am not changing the ASW AI in GWX. It seems similar to AOTD from my experience.


HB

LOL did anyone ask you to? Im not changing it either. I had a minor influence in it's current form, and to be honest, i think early war is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too easy.

[Woof1701]

My problem is still with the enemy eyesight. I have no problems in 1940 dodging DDs at 30 meters. I read the fabulous GWX manual and followed the instructions which are sound enough. I also have a German copy of the U-boat Commander's Handbook and must've read it ten times by now. I follow the instructions there to the letter as well, but I really still have problems with entering convoys at night and shadowing convoys in daylight. Maybe someone could help me with that :)

To get back to my AOTD experiences: In that sim it was easy entering convoys at night at high speeds and getting out just as fast. I was shadowing the perimeter and monitoring the escort search pattern, and when there was a gap I charged through, plowed through the first line, hit the inner ships and was out the other side before anyone knew what had happened. That worked best with overcast skys but also when the sea was calm, the sky was clear and I could see for 10 kilometers. In GWX I don't get that to work. I've read many threads here telling me that it's possible. But during daylight the escorts often spot me before way I spot them, and going faster than slow ahead will draw their attention quite quickly even at night. At that speed I cannot keep pace with most convoys though.

As Torpex said it: At sea, even if you're not looking directly at a small object in broad daylight you're likely to miss it in the movement of the waves. The problem at sea is that it's constantly moving and than makes finding and tracking small objects extremely difficult. At night a submarine is visually almost undetectable unless it's got the moon from the front lighting it up.
The point that the lookouts on the ships had a higher position and thus could actually detect uboats earlier (which I've read several times here in the forum) is not valid in my opinion, because a large object is always easier to spot than a tiny one. And considering that a surface ships is more than 3/4 above the waterline with sometimes several meters height just to get to the main deck and often sprouting funnels (with smoke), derricks, guns and masts, wheras a sub (except for the conning tower which has less than two meters) rises little more above the water than a rowboat. So the slight advantage a deck officer on a DD might have due to it's higher position is also his biggest disadvantage.
I even tried that myself in SH3. I positioned the free camera on or near a freighter in high seas. That freighter had detected me and started evasive maneuvers. I could easily make him out without binoculars, but when I was "on" the freighter taking a look around all I could see was the waves. Even though I knew exactly in which direction to look I couldn't find my boat for minutes until for a split second its bow popped up and vanished again. And each time I reset my view and tried again it took me some time to locate the boat again. Whereas on the bridge of the boat the freighter never left my eyesight for a second.

Don't get me wrong: I've been playing subsims for close to 20 years now, and GWX is the first one to come close to the great AOTD feeling again, and I'm extremely grateful for that, because the biggest shortcomings of SH3 was the enemy AI. Everything's fine for me at the moment. The DD tactics (waiting on the surface playing dead, attacking in groups, getting more aggressive and better equipped as the war approaches) are really great now, but the enemy hawk-like eyesight in my humble opinion is still too good.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry for rambling. Couldn't help it. Was the only way to get everything said :) Thanks for reading.

[Torpex752]

Just a suggestion..and only a suggestion....what if the AI visual detection range were "calibrated" by actual human eyesight? In other words, go external, and if you can see the scope or surfaced sub at a specified range in a moving ocean make that range the visual range? I mean what better way to give the AI a human element.

I as well must agree that GWX (and may I say its the only mod I tried) is definately the bomb!

Frank :cool:

[Oesten]

Just a suggestion..and only a suggestion....what if the AI visual detection range were "calibrated" by actual human eyesight? In other words, go external, and if you can see the scope or surfaced sub at a specified range in a moving ocean make that range the visual range? I mean what better way to give the AI a human element.

I as well must agree that GWX (and may I say its the only mod I tried) is definately the bomb!

Frank :cool:

Sorry, but that won't work because you are then only simulating human eyesight range WITHOUT using binoculars - the range of the naked eye. Because the external camera can't zoom in and out to replicate 8x magnification with binoculars.

Surely no naval vessel of any kind, of any nation, would ever put to sea without a pair of binoculars for the lookout!

[Oesten]

IIRC there are no elite DD in 39\40

Have a read through the Bdu KTB and see how simple and easy it was

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB.htm

57 uboats available at war start and in the next 3 months 9 were sunk
24 sunk in 40

Happy times for some
Not for all



Of the 9 U-boats sunk in 1939, two were sunk by mines and one by a British sub. The other six were destroyed by depth charges from 2 or 3 ASW vessels (never by just one alone.) Also in at least 2 cases, premature torpedo detonation or broaching the surface gave the U-boat's approximate position away.)

Of the 24 U-boats sunk in 1940, two were rammed by friendly or neutral ships, two were sunk by aircraft, two more by British subs, and 7 definitely and probably one more were lost to mines. Two were sunk by combinations of 4 destroyers and a Sunderland, and the remaining 8 by ASW vessels, mostly multiple ASW vessels.

Single escorts should usually be fairly easy to escape from in 1939/40 - but multiple ones, much less so. A lot more difficult to evade escorts working in pairs, with one pinging and the other depth-charging.

Mines were a big killer of U-boats early in the war - if your career runs from 1/9/39 to 31/12/40, you should have about a 10% chance of hitting one during that time.

[Torpex752]

Just a suggestion..and only a suggestion....what if the AI visual detection range were "calibrated" by actual human eyesight? In other words, go external, and if you can see the scope or surfaced sub at a specified range in a moving ocean make that range the visual range? I mean what better way to give the AI a human element.

I as well must agree that GWX (and may I say its the only mod I tried) is definately the bomb!

Frank :cool:

Sorry, but that won't work because you are then only simulating human eyesight range WITHOUT using binoculars - the range of the naked eye. Because the external camera can't zoom in and out to replicate 8x magnification with binoculars.

Surely no naval vessel of any kind, of any nation, would ever put to sea without a pair of binoculars for the lookout!

Darn good point! I did forget that. So how about a mission with the users sub in the middle and 3 or four subs with a couple surfaced and a couple submerged going in different directions. Then use the subs scope & binoculars trying to locate them? Would that fit the bill? (personally I think in theory it would be a fair test)

Frank:cool:

[Scheisskopf]

how far can the average lookout see in the middle of the ocean? Could a lookout really see a uboat 5 miles (8km) away?

another question, why do some people have easier experiences with the DD's and others have a really hard time with them? I have yet to play GWX (cause of a fried video card, currently ordering new one) and im concerned that the DD's can see way to far according to some of the kaleuns. although im concerned about the distance that they can see, im not concerned about the DD's being really good, i mean look at all the evidence some of the earlier posters gave and in Das Boot they get the crap DC'ed out of them.

GWX sounds awesome , cant wait

Thanks

Scheisskopf :-j

[melnibonian]

In reality on a clear day you can see far more than 8Km away at sea. In GWX the watch crew on the sub sees quite far away but this depends on the weather conditions. The DD watch crews have to come closer to see you as you're a tiny little thing in a very big ocean. As the war goes on the watch crews of the DDs get better and better, so towards the end of the war things get really difficult

[Scheisskopf]

so in essence, DD's spotting you from 8km is reasonably realistic

actually, i think its good if the game is tougher, vanilla SH3 and the first couple GW's were way to easy IMHO, even on 100% realism later in the war

Schkpf :-j

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

another question, why do some people have easier experiences with the DD's and others have a really hard time with them? I have yet to play GWX (cause of a fried video card, currently ordering new one) and im concerned that the DD's can see way to far according to some of the kaleuns. although im concerned about the distance that they can see, im not concerned about the DD's being really good, i mean look at all the evidence some of the earlier posters gave and in Das Boot they get the crap DC'ed out of them.

I can't definitely speak for others why that is so, but I have my suspicions. ;)

When I started my first patrol in GWX (Sep '40) I decided to be a bit cautious and test the waters, as it were.

Turns out I wasn't cautious enough :-?

Started my second career at the same date. So far I've reached late '41 and 9 patrols, with a bit over 350,000 tonnes sunk. I'm not gonna say it was easy, because it wasn't. But I will say what I think the difference is between peoples experiences with DDs and escorts.

Don't take cocky risks.
Don't get greedy.
Don't rush.
Don't get impatient.

No matter the range, if you see them assume they can see you (and possibly already have seen you).
Invest the time to make an approach; don't just charge in.
If you (submerged) can hear them, assume they can hear you.
Don't wait until things're flushed down the crapper: run silent early and stay that way. Forget about reloading afterwards: GET OUT OF DODGE!
Be willing to break off and run. This is positively the situation where 'He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day'. Or, perhaps, 'He who LOS-es and runs silent away lives to sink more another day'.
Soon as you've flushed your tubes go deep as fast as possible, jink away and run silent.

At the moment in my career (late '41) I find DD's and escorts more of an annoyance than a hazard. I'm sure that'll change soon though! :p :D

Seriously though. I interpenetrate a convoy, take my shots then run. Usually by the time the escorts get near my location I'm around 160 meters deep, moving 1 knot and running silent. Ashcans rain like hail all around but seldom near me. I find that annoying because (just as it really was) the escorts are mostly just making sure I stay down so as to keep the fleeing convoy safe.

But . . .

I also never forget they are dangerous, and potentially lethal annoyances. I don't take them, ever, for granted. And, IMO, I think that's the answer to your question: those that seem to have easy experiences with them give them the respect and dread they deserve, while those that have hard times with them don't.

[RawRecruit]

So I'm on a course to intercept a convoy at about 6pm in October, 1940. The weather is raining and it's quite foggy so visibility is poor (probably less than 1000m) . The wind speed is not very high, but the sea is still quite choppy. I'm proceeding at 1/3 ahead on the surface ready to submerge to listen for the convoy because the watch crew haven't spotted a thing and are unlikely too. Suddenly the detection icon turns red so I jump to the bridge and do a quick 360 with naked eye, then binoculars and then even the UZO, but I can't see a thing. So I dive to periscope depth and immediately get a warship contact to starboard bearing down on me at high speed. A quick check with the scope and sure enough a DD is making a beeline for me. At this point I get all the merchant contacts on the port beam. So it seems I ran into the convoy between the lead escort and the merchants. I hadn't spotted anything at all yet the lead escort had detected me, turned round and made an attack run before I knew anything. If I had turned the sound meter off I'd be dead, but luckily I escaped after crash diving below the oncoming merchants, albeit with some damage from the depth charges.

Now I skulk about for a bit, the convoy passes overhead and continues on and eventually the DDs lose interest and move on. I come to periscope depth and look around. No visual contact. No sonar reports come in at short range...mostly they are long range. So I surface so I can repair my tower and set speed to roughly match the convoy, so I will tail them until it's properly dark before attacking. Within minutes the little sub has turned red again and I can see flares going up. Again I can't see any ships and the watch crew haven't reported a sighting. Then, sure enough, a corvette comes plowing out of the gloom directly at me, all guns blazing. I dive to periscope depth. I'm pretty annoyed by now, so I decide that I'm going to take it on. :stare: After a few minutes another DD joins in. We end up circling each other at about 300m, with the enemy taking runs at me, but being too close to get up to attack speed and too close for me to get a torpedo away and armed. Eventually I manage to manouever enough that I get shots away and actually sink both DDs!!! :o
So, it seems that the escorts were defintely not elite, because they didn't sink me, in fact they were quite unorganised and uncoordinated. But...they were spotting me waaaaaay to easily in fog and rain before I could see them. What's with that? Am I being detected by radar? I didn't think that radar was a problem for me in 1940?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Started my second career at the same date. So far I've reached late '41 and 9 patrols, with a bit over 350,000 tonnes sunk. I'm not gonna say it was easy, because it wasn't. But I will say what I think the difference is between peoples experiences with DDs and escorts.

Don't take cocky risks.
Don't get greedy.
Don't rush.
Don't get impatient.

No matter the range, if you see them assume they can see you (and possibly already have seen you).
Invest the time to make an approach; don't just charge in.
If you (submerged) can hear them, assume they can hear you.
Don't wait until things're flushed down the crapper: run silent early and stay that way. Forget about reloading afterwards: GET OUT OF DODGE!
Be willing to break off and run. This is positively the situation where 'He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day'. Or, perhaps, 'He who LOS-es and runs silent away lives to sink more another day'.
Soon as you've flushed your tubes go deep as fast as possible, jink away and run silent.

At the moment in my career (late '41) I find DD's and escorts more of an annoyance than a hazard. I'm sure that'll change soon though! :p :D

Seriously though. I interpenetrate a convoy, take my shots then run. Usually by the time the escorts get near my location I'm around 160 meters deep, moving 1 knot and running silent. Ashcans rain like hail all around but seldom near me. I find that annoying because (just as it really was) the escorts are mostly just making sure I stay down so as to keep the fleeing convoy safe.

But . . .

I also never forget they are dangerous, and potentially lethal annoyances. I don't take them, ever, for granted. And, IMO, I think that's the answer to your question: those that seem to have easy experiences with them give them the respect and dread they deserve, while those that have hard times with them don't.
That post is excellent! In my opinion it deserves to be stickied with some huge, alert-red letters saying "Before you try to play GWX!". Thanks for that lecture, proffessor von Hesse.

[Mooncatt]

seconded :up:
speaking of convoys my tactic is....you dont have to sink all the ships in the convoy thats almost impossible without getting yourself killed i just take out the biggest and then hi-tail it out

[Wulfmann]

Raw R
Me in that same situation.
I dive to periscope depth go to silent running and set my depth to 14 meters long before I am near the convoy and risk losing contact by it turning than risk my boat unreasonably.
I make 2 knots and spend much time on the hydro tracking the sounds. I wait until I hear the lead escort pass me and is 180 to me.
I keep my eyes and ears on the hydro waiting and maneuvering to be in the path of the merchants by sound as in fog and rain the visual is 300 meters and if I wait that long it is too late (usually)
When I can see the merchants are spread on the hydro about 150 degrees I know they are close and I turn 90% (so they would be crossing in front of me and my tubes) still making 2 knots and silent.
I will not reload
I will take what I can and slither away like a man that wants to keep his men safe more than kill the English.
If the first row of ships passes without a visual I line up row two on the hydro and fire two fish at a 5% spread. If I do not see a visual in a couple minutes I fire two more bow fish at 5% then track the line a stern and fire that one fish.
Of course, If I make a visual I try and align and fire but silently. Once my fish are gone I keep a close watch on all escort sounds. I keep my boat at 14 meters at all time so my peri is barely above the water when up full and half the time it is submerged.
The hassle is worth the added protection.
It is more difficult for escorts to hear me silent at 14 meters than deep so unless I am being charged by a bunch of them I stay at 14.
If it gets too hot I hit flank speed and dive to 150 meters where I can get a constant update one on escort while I track a second on the hydro myself.
I usually keep the stern fish for an escort. If one makes a run I hit flank so am close to him (avoids the K-Guns) and yet not where his stern drop will be.
If the angle is him charging down the throat I let him pass by and usually I can see which way he will turn I place my stern tube 20% in front of him and fire. Hit or miss I am making for 150 meters ate that point.
It is very important to learn to listen on the hydro. One can hear which escort is dropping so by calculating where he is and where he is going one can turn, hit flank speed and not be where the cans will detonate.
Now back to 2 knots a 45% change in course and listening to hear what the English will do next.
The hydro is not accurate in auto so manning this yourself and then jumping to helmsman yourself to execute the speed and turn so one does not have to wait for casual Hans to get off his Jawohl Herr Kaleun buttocks and do what I needed done 5 seconds ago is a big reason for evading Wasser Bomben and living to see France again!

Wulfmann

[The Munster]

Raw R
Me in that same situation.
I dive to periscope depth go to silent running and set my depth to 14 meters long before I am near the convoy and risk losing contact by it turning than risk my boat unreasonably.
I make 2 knots and spend much time on the hydro tracking the sounds. I wait until I hear the lead escort pass me and is 180 to me.
I keep my eyes and ears on the hydro waiting and maneuvering to be in the path of the merchants by sound as in fog and rain the visual is 300 meters and if I wait that long it is too late (usually)
When I can see the merchants are spread on the hydro about 150 degrees I know they are close and I turn 90% (so they would be crossing in front of me and my tubes) still making 2 knots and silent.
I will not reload
I will take what I can and slither away like a man that wants to keep his men safe more than kill the English.
If the first row of ships passes without a visual I line up row two on the hydro and fire two fish at a 5% spread. If I do not see a visual in a couple minutes I fire two more bow fish at 5% then track the line a stern and fire that one fish.
Of course, If I make a visual I try and align and fire but silently. Once my fish are gone I keep a close watch on all escort sounds. I keep my boat at 14 meters at all time so my peri is barely above the water when up full and half the time it is submerged.
The hassle is worth the added protection.
It is more difficult for escorts to hear me silent at 14 meters than deep so unless I am being charged by a bunch of them I stay at 14.
If it gets too hot I hit flank speed and dive to 150 meters where I can get a constant update one on escort while I track a second on the hydro myself.
I usually keep the stern fish for an escort. If one makes a run I hit flank so am close to him (avoids the K-Guns) and yet not where his stern drop will be.
If the angle is him charging down the throat I let him pass by and usually I can see which way he will turn I place my stern tube 20% in front of him and fire. Hit or miss I am making for 150 meters ate that point.
It is very important to learn to listen on the hydro. One can hear which escort is dropping so by calculating where he is and where he is going one can turn, hit flank speed and not be where the cans will detonate.
Now back to 2 knots a 45% change in course and listening to hear what the English will do next.
The hydro is not accurate in auto so manning this yourself and then jumping to helmsman yourself to execute the speed and turn so one does not have to wait for casual Hans to get off his Jawohl Herr Kaleun buttocks and do what I needed done 5 seconds ago is a big reason for evading Wasser Bomben and living to see France again!

Wulfmann

Hi, thanks for that, I'm going to try your stuff out next time I come across a Convoy; I also sit at 14 metres and am pressing the 'H' button a lot more than before, turning the wheel and listening etc. but getting away from the Escorts after sinking usually 2 ships has always been a big problem to me, can't seem to shake em' off ?! I've tried going deep, 2 knots and go the opposite direction to the Convoy in the hope that the Escorts would in time, return to it but nope, just keep on circling above and dropping nasty things onto us. Cheers.

[Scheisskopf]

von Hesse, thanks for the explaination :up:

i also agree that that could be a potential sticky

[Torpex752]

so in essence, DD's spotting you from 8km is reasonably realistic

actually, i think its good if the game is tougher, vanilla SH3 and the first couple GW's were way to easy IMHO, even on 100% realism later in the war

Schkpf :-j

Sorry, been there done that in RL and I will not agree that the norm is a DD spotting a surfaced submarine in choppy seas at 8k yds with whatever vision was available "reasonably reaslistic". Not saying it couldnt happen, but the variables are too many, and the numbers dont stack up. In a calm sea, I would agree, but never in a choppy sea, and not consistantly.
I can deal with that issue better then the scope being spotted at almost 3 miles in a choppy sea. I'll give you a test, take an 1-1/2" piece of Black pipe 3' long stick it in the ground, get back about 2-3/4 miles sit at a bench and use 50x binoculars and see if you can find it. then when/if you do, stand up and see if you can find it while standing in footing that doesnt move. then try it again in a moving car! good Luck!

Sorry I stood lookout on a surfaced sub and can assure you that visibility on the open ocean is tougher for the big guy spotting the low profile small guy.

I really wish I could take you out there and show ya! :D In any event its the only thing I disagree with, and regardless of that i still stand firm that GWX is a top nothch mod deserving credit beyond words.

Frank :know:

[Scheisskopf]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ok ill go out and try that sometime with the pipes haha. and that would be awesome to acutally go out on a sub lol

i see what youre saying and ill trust a guy who has done that kind of stuff before more than ill believe anyone else. anyway, i was just going on what mel told me about how far away you can be spotted. when i get my comp fixed and start playing again, ill probably just wait to attack convoys at night and try to go for single ships.

Thanks Frank,

Schkpf :|\\

[Wulfmann]

KPT M,
You can also right click on the sound man's icon to go to the hydro as well as right click on the helmsman to get straight to his controls. Just faster and in the dark hitting the wrong key has happened.
I do things different in different weather
I do not move straight out the back, too many lurking (I increase the number of escorts 1943 on to actual amounts comparible to convoy content).
I actually go forward at an angle to constantly cross merchant tracks. This does confuse the escorts which must stop and wait. I make my way out the side if at all possible.
This does not stop a pair of intense escorts but a pair beats 4-5 and if I play the speed up/turn/slow down; thing enough they can even run out of DCes.
But, that takes about 4 hours and living through four tough intense can't even put it on pause hours of DCing is a true highlight of SH3 simming! Getting to 3:45 in a 4 hour DCing is a very depressing bit of SH3 simming:rotfl:
And yes, I have gotten that far and been sunk. The worst was 5 escorts for almost 6 hours. After 3 hours it was down to 2 but they came later in relief and at about 5:45 I finally did a port when I should have done a starboard and RIP
I was not upset but truley amazed and knew I finally had it tweaked right.

Then GWX basically did that for everyone!

Wulfmann

[EM2(SS)]

Dont give up on night surface attacks on convoys just yet!

Before Gwx, I would do the traditional let the convoy run me over then proceed to butcher it. Not fearing the escorts that much in vanilla or Gw 1.1 .

Now GWX comes along and of course I download the manual as soon as it comes out. I think i read every post of the beta testers in regards to evading escorts. Then the day came GWX is here, and WOW!!!!!! Those escorts mean buisness!!!

I followed all the advice and it works. Tougher yes but doable. However after reading one of the short stories posted here ( Laughing Swordfish , Brag or maybe someone else... I read them all, can't get enough!!!) and remembering WW2 history, most early war convoy attacks were at night and on the surface.

Well, I go ahead and give this tactic a shot. It works great! Now let me put in a disclaimer. Conditions have to be perfect or pretty close for it to work.

- At night (not dusk or dawn but real dark)
- Early war (39 to early 42) (no radar equiped escorts!!!!!!)
- Running decks awashed
- Only a convoy, not a task force with a crap ton of destroyers going at 20kts
- Not a lot of escorts ( has worked with 4 to 5 escorts in convoy)

I like to run parrallel to the convoy 5-7km away. I will try to come in between the lead escort and one the flank escorts (preferebly a Flower that is the flank escort)
Sometimes the flank escort will shoot out of the convoy. sometimes toward you sometimes to the tail end of the convoy. When it comes toward me i try to keep a small profile, show it your tail and parrallel the convoy waiting for him to turn back.
Once it heads to the back of the convoy sprint in toward convoy.

I have gotten as close as 900m to an escort and not been detected. However that was not my plan. i like to keep at least 3km away.

Sprint in at maybe 5-10 kts, target 2 ships , 2 torps each . I usually like to shoot when they are 3km or so away. Turn 180 degrees and go ahead standard or full (still trying to figure out which is better).

Torpedoes should now be hitting and you are a good 4-5 km away from the convoy. Always maintain a low profile to an escort (never show one your side, only your bow or aft end, and decks awashed)

Now if you were not detected parrallel the convoy again and repeat.

If you were detected of course crash dive, go deep and go silent. The sprint out of the convoy probably bought you a couple km's so this is a big help to get deep. If the escort chasing you is Flower just out run him!

Another way to make it easier for yourself is to sink one the flank escorts prior to attacking the merchants. This can be tricky since they dont travel in a straight line all the time. But usually after they turn away from the convoy and search and return they will go straight for a while. Just a matter of timing. observe them for a while and note the pattern. After a flank escort is sunk or immoblized retreat 5-7 km away from convoy and wait for other escorts to return to there normal positions and attack the ungaurded flank.

I'm hope this is helpful. Please feel free to critique or criticize. It seems like I learn something new very often reading posts by all of you. Keep em comin.

[The Munster]

KPT M,
You can also right click on the sound man's icon to go to the hydro as well as right click on the helmsman to get straight to his controls. Just faster and in the dark hitting the wrong key has happened.
I do things different in different weather
I do not move straight out the back, too many lurking (I increase the number of escorts 1943 on to actual amounts comparible to convoy content).
I actually go forward at an angle to constantly cross merchant tracks. This does confuse the escorts which must stop and wait. I make my way out the side if at all possible.
This does not stop a pair of intense escorts but a pair beats 4-5 and if I play the speed up/turn/slow down; thing enough they can even run out of DCes.
But, that takes about 4 hours and living through four tough intense can't even put it on pause hours of DCing is a true highlight of SH3 simming! Getting to 3:45 in a 4 hour DCing is a very depressing bit of SH3 simming:rotfl:
And yes, I have gotten that far and been sunk. The worst was 5 escorts for almost 6 hours. After 3 hours it was down to 2 but they came later in relief and at about 5:45 I finally did a port when I should have done a starboard and RIP
I was not upset but truley amazed and knew I finally had it tweaked right.

Then GWX basically did that for everyone!

Wulfmann

Hi and thanks for the advice, this stuff is what I've been looking for. Try as I might, getting away is the big, frustrating problem for me so will definitely try these tactics out the next time I find a Convoy. Cheers.