Neutral destroyers in convoy´s? (GWX)

[Vikinger]

HI.
I was on a patrol in september 1941.
Just outside grand canaria i encounterd a convoy.

I got spotted by the escort and attacked by 2 destroyers.
To my suprise i saw they was going under french flag???

France at that time in war is consider as neutral. So what are they doing in convoys that consist of british merchants?

And since they attacked me i manage to sink one of them before i had to escape and my patrol log showed it was a neutral ship i had sunk.


So i thought, ok its a bug or some file in the roster/france that shouldnt be there so i checked it out but oddly there was not any destroyers/black swan frigate/flower corvette listed in the ordnance there.

So question still remains. How on earth can they show up under french flag when they are not on the roster for the country?

And how can i fix it/ where to look for it?

[melnibonian]

I know the feeling. I had my encounters with the French as well. I am not 100% sure but I think the neutral warships will attack you if you give them the chance. The merchants are OK. If you stay out of their way they will not fire at you. Also if you attack a neutral ship all other ships of this country will consider you an enemy. I think this lasts for 24 hours but please do not quote me on that, I might be wrong.

[Vikinger]

Yeah they came after me and attacked as i was an enemy to them.

It must be some way to fix this so not neutral escorts show up in convoys.
It take away a lot of the realism feeling.

The problem is not in the roster file coz for the french there is no excorts ship in thier roster more than an armed trawler. So it must be on some other file we have to look for the problem.

[melnibonian]

I'll pass it to the GWX devs. If it can be fixed it will. My view is though that there is something to do with the SH3 game engine. In any case I'm just speculating. I'll let the Devs know and they will see what they can do.

In the mean time keep sinking them (neutrals or not);) :arrgh!: :up:

[Vikinger]

Hehe. No one is safe from my trigger happy finger :D

Thx for passing it on. :)

[azn_132]

Which french flag is it? The Free French or just regular french flag?

[swuboo]

USS Niblack, USS Reuben James. It's not without historical precedent.

Vichy escorts, though, that's a bit of a puzzler. Any Free French ships would already be flying the Lorraine cross, so if this ship had the plain tricolor, it's definitely Vichy.

I can definitely see a lot of Vichy crews having no love of the Germans, but I can't see them escorting a convoy which, if it's off the Canaries, is probably bound for Britain. It's too soon after Mers-el-Kebir.

My guess is that it's intentional that sympathetic neutrals provide escorts, since that's true to life, but that it was unintentional for France in particular to do so.

[Vikinger]

Its the regulary french flag.

[andy_311]

If they fired first then oblitrate that convoy I would. (but am just curious if you/they fire at you and they are neutral I know that the game modele's your a enemy of that country for 24 hrs does that mean that every where on the world map that coutry is fireing at the other country's ship just curious).

[swuboo]

Its the regulary french flag.

Then that ship definitely shouldn't be there. Not after Mers-el-Kebir.

Again, I like the idea of neutral escorts; those really existed, and really opened fire on U-Boats. Pre-Pearl American escorts in particular.

But Vichy escorts simply don't make any sense, given the political situation.

[Vikinger]

If they fired first then oblitrate that convoy I would. (but am just curious if you/they fire at you and they are neutral I know that the game modele's your a enemy of that country for 24 hrs does that mean that every where on the world map that coutry is fireing at the other country's ship just curious).

I was at periscope depth and they spotted me and came after me.

Obviously i was a threat to the convoy so they attacked.

The convoy consisted of both english and french escorts.

I had 2 french ship after me. 1 was a swan frigate and the other was a corvett.

I manage after a while sink one of the french escort after they had depth charged me. Then another destroyer, english, jumped into the scene so i decided to disengage and sneak away from that convoy.

But it doesnt matter who attacked first, problem is that it shouldnt be any french escort ship in a large convoy. My guess is also that the convoy was on outbound for america.

[melnibonian]

On the other hand I did attack a small convoy (one US DD, one US Tanker and a British Passenger Liner) outside Freetown in December 1940. I fired only at the British ship and the US DD didn't even bothered to search for me. Both US ships left the British one to sink and continued their voyage.

[bigboywooly]

Where and when was this encounter with the French ? Date and location
The French do not have anything above an armed trawler - def not a corvette of Black Swan

[Vikinger]

Where and when was this encounter with the French ? Date and location
The French do not have anything above an armed trawler - def not a corvette of Black Swan

From my patrol log:

13 Sep 1941 0629 CF86 Ship sunk! HMS Wild Goose (Black Swan Class), 1250 tons


That is the ship i sunk after they attacked me.

I could rollback some missions coz i know i did a save just before i encounterd the convoy but that would delete all my other saves i made after that entry.

And i as also suprised to se that they had a black swan and a corvett class so i checked the roster file later but thos ship was not on the list.

[LeafsFan]

It's probably a stock issue, but historically there is no way Vichy ships should be in a British Convoy.

HB

[swuboo]

HMS Wild Goose, eh? Perhaps HMIVS* Wild Goose would be more fitting.

*His Majesty's Inexplicable Vichy Ship

[Jimbuna]

HMS Wild Goose, eh? Perhaps HMIVS* Wild Goose would be more fitting.

*His Majesty's Inexplicable Vichy Ship

ROFLMAO :rotfl:

[Vikinger]

Oki i rolled back some missions to get some screens of it.

One misstake i did was that ive said it was a corvette ship involved. But that was not correct.

It was One Black swan frigate and One Town class destroyer.

Pictures here show the town class under french flag, hunting alongside whit a british flagged destroyer.

And the other picture show the french town class that drop wasserbombs. :)

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3268/frenchsy7.jpg



http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9657/french1di8.jpg

[melnibonian]

That's not the French flag mate. It's either the Dutch or the Indian one (I cannot see it very well in your pictures, but I think it's the indian one)

Either way they are your enemies and are correct to attack you

[Vikinger]

That's not the French flag mate. It's either the Dutch or the Indian one (I cannot see it very well in your pictures, but I think it's the indian one)

Either way they are your enemies and are correct to attack you


DOD DAMN You are right. I checked the Museum and its a fricking netherland flag on it. Same colour scheme but the french flag have thier stripes vertical not horizontal like this have.

Darn i guess i have to go back to training school now after this so i can learn to reckon different nations flag.

But one issue still remains even if they are netherland ships. They are flagged as neutral when i sink them.

[bigboywooly]

:rotfl: :rotfl:
Well that saved me a whole heap of work

Not sure why it showed as nuetral though as they are def at war then - from the 9/4/40

Do you have any other mods installed other than GWX ?

[Jimbuna]

Well that saved me a whole heap of work

Says BBW 'wiping furrowed brow' lol :rotfl:

[bigboywooly]

Well that saved me a whole heap of work

Says BBW 'wiping furrowed brow' lol :rotfl:

lol yep time better spent on Reykjavic

:rotfl:

[johan_d]

There isnt such thing as neutrality..just sink the frogs!

I am currently submerged with some inspector Clouseau above me in an armed trawler, before the street of Gibraltar.. slowly creeping away.

[Vikinger]

:rotfl: :rotfl:
Well that saved me a whole heap of work

Not sure why it showed as nuetral though as they are def at war then - from the 9/4/40

Do you have any other mods installed other than GWX ?

GWX is the main mod iam using. Then i have a few others as well but thos only affect sound and some graphics.

Sorry if i misslead you in this when i thought it was a french ship. Good thing i rolled back to a saved game so we could clear this out whit some screen shoots :)

It remind me to allways take screenshoot when i se something "odd". Most of the times it have an resonable explaination to it.

[bigboywooly]

lol yeah a screenshot always helps
As does the date/time and location

Over 1 million lines of campaign to search through so all of the above help narrow it down