View Full Version : SH2: A Classic or Simply Nostalgia?
Thomsen2002
01-10-07, 01:13 AM
I just re-installed the game, searched out my mods CD, and went back to it. This game COULD have been a classic, but we will never know.
Of all the wargames I've played, this one is a singular example of a failed idea that was made playable by the gamers themselves.
Call me crazy if you wish, but I just spent a couple of hours reconstructing this just to experience the feel of getting back onto the conning tower, and looking out to sea.
I don't think this game is dead. All it needs is a little kickstart.
I started out here 5 years ago. Not sure if that makes me one of "The Old Guard", but I recall Sailor Steve and Palindromeria and Seeadler and Laf and Sergbuto and Hitman and Adam Warren and others -- YOU were the people that kept this game alive.
To all of you, I just wanted to say thanks for your efforts. I didn't do much -- I was basically just a cheerleader and an historical fan.
Just thought I'd surface to say that you folks are a special breed .
"Hail and victory and good hunting"
Regards to you all,
Thomsen (Glenn Higginbotham)
Hi Thomsen,
Nice to see you again you old wolf :D There's still some of us around here, though no longer playing SH2.
A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.
The main problem with SH2 was probably that we all expected too much from it. If you accepted its unchangeable shortcomings -scripted campaign- you don't really have a bad sim at all.:up:
What a refreshing thread :rock:
I suspect you are right .... there is a liberal streak of nostalgia running through this, but since when has that been such a bad thing. :D
I have to toss DC into this arena because together IMHO they make up a complete naval experience that I've yet to find in any other sim/game ( albeit in multiplay) Only Enigma RT has that kind of variety.
Classic ? Hmmmm .... it had some well documented frustrations ( red triangle, AI etc ) but I have to say I still "play" it as often as SH3. Not as pretty graphically but there was something about standing on the bridge in a bad sea that had a real gritty feel about it.
Hugely moddable, too .... with PA and Alpha Tau two good examples of what could be done. A pity DC never had a similar treatment .... its full potential was never realised.
Onkel Neal
01-10-07, 11:07 AM
A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.
Well said, Hitman. :yep: I firmly believe if Troy Heere and Ultimation had not been able to deliver SH2, even with its shortcomings in campaign and AI, there would not have been an SH3, certainly not an SH4. Like you said, all one has to do is look around and see; other than MS's marque title Flightsim and Sonalysts' 688/Sub Command/DW franchise, there are no A-list tank, helo, or subsims being developed these days. No new Longbow, Comanche, Panzer Commander, Armored Fist, Wolfpack, Aces of the Deep, Fast Attack, …. only small studio projects. Silent Hunter 2 was very important to the subsim community, and the modders who kept it alive played a crucial role.
Sailor Steve
01-10-07, 04:45 PM
I loaded up SHII early last year, and found myself disappointed by the things SHIII has that it doesn't, and probably won't play it again.
BUT...
Once my situation allows I fully intend to try playing SHII and DC online again. I really miss that "me-against-you" feel.
And I guess Neal is right, if not for SHII we might well not be where we are today.
Thompsen! You're still afloat.:D
Some of us are still around and still playing SH2 on a monthly single-mission basis.:rock:
The Atlantik Kampaign is still running strong and in it's second tour of the Battle of the Atlantic. Mission 11 was just issued 01 Jan 2007. Come join us via the website http://www.geocities.com/atlantikcampaign and visit the forum at http://s2.invisionfree.com/Atlantik_Campaign/index.php
Raiders of the Deep is still running, albeit somewhat erratically. http://www.raiders-of-the-deep.com/Raiders_01.html
Salute!
nedwreck
01-27-07, 01:04 AM
It's on my laptop along with Destroyer Command. I found them bundled at CompUSA for $5.00 a few years ago. My laptop wouldn't run SHIII with 2 gigs of memory. I still play it. It's still fun.
Bob
Torplexed
01-27-07, 01:24 AM
SH3 may have a lot of things SH2 never could. But the nimble Type XXIII wasn't one of them. Not to mentions lots of other submarines. Always got a kick out of how easy the game was to mod.
http://www.eskimo.com/%7Esnowfall/Type23.jpg
SH3 may have a lot of things SH2 never could. But the nimble Type XXIII wasn't one of them. Not to mentions lots of other submarines. Always got a kick out of how easy the game was to mod.
Well said, Torplexed.:up:
The sheer scope of the game (and its partner, the underrated DC) is breathtaking. There are folk on the SH3 forum who bemoan the lack of AI subs and player controlled Jap subs - all possible with SH2 and more. :D
Torplexed
01-27-07, 10:46 AM
Well said, Torplexed.:up:
The sheer scope of the game (and its partner, the underrated DC) is breathtaking. There are folk on the SH3 forum who bemoan the lack of AI subs and player controlled Jap subs - all possible with SH2 and more. :D
Thanks horsa! I'm probably one of the few people who was fairly impressed with SH2 when it was released in 2001 having never played a 3-D sim before. It was easy to learn and get into. I loved the new (for the) time external view and the 360-degree torpedo cam. The scripted missions were canned true, but varied and interesting. Plus, you could always write your own campaign. The sim resurrected a latent interest in me for U-Boats that is still going to this day. It also helped that I wasn't closely following the game's pre-release progress and problems, so my expectations never got too high. Something I still do to this day to avoid dissappointments. :cool:
Plus, given some of the excellent past mods...where can you to this day play with Italian submarines? Grazie! :up:
Yep .... Italian, American, Jap subs ... even British subs (Upholder) .... and where else can you sail in Bismarck ... or raid with the Graf Spee ... it's endless.
gdogghenrikson
01-28-07, 12:59 AM
Well, I'm no expert on subsims, but I feel SH2 is classic. My friend got me into this game and it is what sparked my interest in uboats. Also have allot of memories of playing multi player...some sweet sub vs. sub battles we had.
Well SHII is all I can play on my computer. I enjoy it.:yep:
ATLANTIKII Campaign is worthy of a check these guys bust thier humps to provide a good game played by Email.:up:
I have not played online yet. I think I may try my hand at it if anyone is still playing SHII on line.:hmm:
ReallyDedPoet
01-28-07, 08:33 AM
Still have it on the computer along with PA. At the time modders did alot to get the most out of that game.
GlowwormGuy
01-29-07, 02:31 AM
and since I have yet to upgrade to a PIV with WinXP this and DC are the only things left. There were so many things that could have been done with it if only... but what we had was still pretty incredible (for its time). Sadly, by the time we got a lot of the Italian mods and even Upholder, interest had pretty much waned as SH3 was well on the way and now there's SH4 coming. I never got around to working on "His Majestys U-Boats" (the Upholder Class in the Mediterranean - if someone decides to do a British sub mod for SH3/4 feel free to use the title, I don't think I'll need it anymore :P ) and there were a hundred little things, repaints,newly modelled ships, so many things that could have been done. Still, I remember it with fondness.
I've even gotten around to doing some old fashioned modelling (working on a Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Hood kitbash conversion of the hypothetical G-3) and a lot of that was the outgrowth of all the fun I had painting and doing scenarios in SH2/DC.
Fair winds and a following sea to one and all!
Mountbatten
Yep .... Italian, American, Jap subs ... even British subs (Upholder) .... and where else can you sail in Bismarck ... or raid with the Graf Spee ... it's endless.
And wolfpacks!!! We still miss them in SH3, but SH2 allowed some furious wolfpacks battles, like CB showed with his campaign generator.
Anyway, probably the most "classy" part of SH2 will always be multiplayer, specially against DC players. In that, SH2 was, and still is, a true classic. :rock:
Kapitan_Phillips
01-29-07, 11:05 AM
Silent Hunter with PA 1.1 sits proudly upon my bedside laptop, and has provided me with many a snuggly night sleeping to the sounds of the diesels and the aroogas. To this day I havent seen a game that has the versatility that allows a TC like PA to work as well as it does
Oh, and cant forget the damn good developers :up:
WutWuzDat
01-29-07, 12:35 PM
Hey Thomsen, good to see you still around.
Yes, SH2 is a classic once you get it modded correctly.
As Raptor has mentioned, Atlantik is going strong. I just played one of the best missions I have ever played in SH2 last mission.
On the playability level, SH2 is better than SH3, IMHO. No, there isn't a dynamic Campaign, but it is still a great sim. And don't forget PA, it has a dynamic campaign.
-- Adam Warren
Sailor Steve
01-29-07, 05:43 PM
Hey Thomsen, good to see you still around.
:rotfl:
Funny coming from you! Where you been hidin', boy?
Kpt. Kozloff
03-03-07, 08:41 AM
SH2 is a CLASSIC !!! No doubt about it mateys!
:arrgh!:
A classic that is still in use today - the Atlantik Kampagin II is in its 13th monthly mission as we speak, and the add-on Mediterranean campaign kicksd off next month in addition to the Atlantik campaign.:rock:
See http://www.geocities.com/atlantikcampaign
I agree, Silent Hunter 2 was a classic. It's what got me hooked on SubsimS!
gdogghenrikson
03-19-07, 12:32 AM
Sh2 just got reinstalled on my pc saterday!
Palindromeria
05-03-07, 11:40 PM
:sunny:
buk :D
For all it's shortcomings, I would call SH2/PA/DC a classic. I thoroughly enjoyed the Atlantik-1 Kampagne, and spent many hours with SH2/DC hunting or being hunted on a "network" cobbled together with a crossover cable (after some excellent work by the PM team). The interaction between the two games was (and still would be) groundbreaking. It's too bad the multiplayer potential of subs/destroyers has been left behind in SH3 and SH4.
Not only that, but the community around these games (led by Neal) worked together to make them shine. Yes, there was some grumbling, but not like today, where way too many posts are about who's going to sue whom.
I haven't played SH2/PA/DC for quite a while, but with all the disappointment with SH4, I may have to go back to Pacific Aces to get some marus!
Heer Kapitain
05-21-07, 07:09 AM
I am playing SH II after I reinstalled it due to Aces Kampaign being faulty, however I have posted today the 7 missions that I did on that before that crash of 2007. Not happy Jan:down: :mad:
Now I will post my battle reports on this site as I am doing the original missions again, as now I am up to the Western Approaches Mission, once completed that I will get the Pacific Aces add on.
You must get Aces campaign v2, the one posted at subsim locks at mission #6 I think...we never found time to update the download:doh: :damn:
Sulikate
05-21-07, 12:09 PM
I agree, Silent Hunter 2 was a classic. It's what got me hooked on SubsimS!
The same here:up:
wetwarev7
05-22-07, 10:26 AM
I just got SH2 and DC in the mail yesterday, and allready I would consider SH2 a classic(as well as DC).
SH3 is what got me hooked on subs, never played a navel game before that, and SH4 is a good follow-up(problems not withstanding). With Sh2 and DC on my laptop, now I can get my sub fix when I go out of town.
Is the PA mod/expansion still available?
Yep, certainly is
Try this in the Subsim download section ( click on SH2 )
http://www.subsim.com/subsim_files/patches_sh2.html#sh2
SH2.
Strange to admit it, but I am playing it happily, more often than SH3 and SH4 at present. To explain, it seems that SH2 calls upon the imagination in a way that I find appealing. The iconic Hitman and Horsa as you can easily gather from reading here, rstill support players with questions, and Pacific Aces is a wonderful variation. I play it alternately with SH2, and consider it the best, personally.
Why do I still play SH2? Quirky reasons I guess.
The unseen crew seems more "real" in my mind than the disturbingly odd and puppetlike simulacra that represent the current representations of crew in the later iterations. How compromised these are will only truly be clear in some years, when computer graphics will fulfill its promised potential, offering modeling so lifelike as to appear cinematic,and the illusion breaking dissonance of this level of rendering will be an artifact chuckled over by digital historians. And no doubt remembered fondly by many members of the SUBSIM forums.
Granted, the subs and ships etc. are better looking by far in the more recent versions, and they are overall in many ways better, but in SH2 I still very much enjoy the atmospheric scoring of the music and the tone or "feel" of the GUI. It sets a nice mood, and I find the this game always comfortable and enjoyable on a second screen while plugging away at other tasks, map view on, and waiting for the cry of "Ship Spotted!"
Why do I still play SH2? Quirky reasons I guess.
Not as quirky as you suggest. This is a very valid point that gets my support. I think that graphic content/capability often gets confused with what might be called “atmosphere”. Conventional wisdom says that more detailed and rich graphics equals more atmosphere. I suppose the assumption is that the richness of detail is bringing us closer to the real thing. But the opposite is often true. It’s a bit like Radio and Television. TV has sound AND vision whereas Radio has only sound. Seemingly no contest, but then why didn’t TV kill off Radio completely?
Answer - some things work better on Radio because leaving a bit to the imagination can be better than spelling it out, badly . In SH3/4 it’s supposed that adding crew must be better than no crew at all, but you’ve clearly recognised, Blarg, that crew looking like Thunderbird puppets don’t necessarily do us any favours in the atmosphere department. Now, none of this is the fault of the devs. They are almost certainly being driven by the marketing guys who in turn are picking up the need to include these features from the paying public.
Let me add a couple of others.
It’s also assumed that 3D interiors are a smart move forward – after all real life is in 3D, so it must be good. Trouble is video cards/computer capability are still not that good. What it’s made SH3/4 do is substitute boring old 2D graphics which can be photo realistic with apparently more exciting “lets have a good look around” 3D graphics that can’t even come within spitting distance of that sort of quality . In fact they are clearly so artificial that the old atmosphere thing suffers yet another kick. After the initial novelty, I wonder what proportion of playing time is actually spent in these crewed 3D interiors rather than the 2D interfaces that actually give you a relatively real feel of submarine instruments.
Now, who’s going to admit to the next one without risking ridicule and scorn - – are the highly detailed models actually more atmospheric than the chunkier ones in SH2/DC ? There are some things that modern graphics do really well and SH3/4 has them in spades - Water, Smoke, Explosions, Sunsets, Sunrises and Lens Flares. No argument there. But, and this is a big but in my mind, the beautiful detailed models of games like SH3/4 can serve only to emphasise that they ARE computer generated models. Often when I look at them, all I can see is really well made toys. The smudgy, chunky , boringly textured models of SH2/DC, when seen at a distance, actually remind me more of vintage war footage. I have to admit that, up close and personal, SH2/DC models look ugly, whereas the more detailed SH3/4 models look rather smart. Nevertheless I cannot help but feel that a lot of the modelling expertise has been channelled towards this relatively infrequent and artificial close up experience.
None of this is going to wash with most folk, of course - SH3/4 has a better featured and designed gameplay anyway, and the graphic richness I’ve outlined is an unstoppable trend, but I personally have no difficulty in often preferring good old fashioned dated SH2/DC.
Lagger123987
05-26-07, 10:28 PM
SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.
SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.
As was said, exceptions do not prove the rule. lagger's summation reinforces this truism neatly.
SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.
Disagree
See, I can do it too.:D
Lagger123987
05-27-07, 08:53 AM
SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.
Disagree
See, I can do it too.:D
Horses poop too much.
Radtgaeb
05-27-07, 09:07 AM
SH2 was a great game :up:. Lagger's comments about bad graphics just go to show you where intrest in video games is going. It's all about the grapihcs now. Look at SH4 they made it to look great (and it does) but look at all the bugs they missed! I wouldn't have minded SH3 graphics with a more complete game, but that's not my point. People are turning into moths, but this time instead of "Ohhhh, shiney!" it's "Ohhhh hi-res!".
Such people have no respect for the arts! :know:
Horses poop too much.
Wrong site. I think you need to be here.
http://www.nfu.org/
azn_132
05-27-07, 10:24 AM
Horses poop too much.
Wrong site. I think you need to be here.
http://www.nfu.org/
:yep: :yep: :yep:
Sailor Steve
05-27-07, 03:19 PM
I agree with Horsa up to a point. I liked the SHII/DC graphics, especially the fog, and of course the multiplay was the best, as far as subsims go. The point where I draw the line is the campaign structure. Even with the great new campaigns from you modders it still got old fast for me. I would rather play AOD; it's the unknowable future that keeps me going. The lack of randomness is what kills SHII for me.
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