GWX-ueber destroyers spot me anywhere???

[AS]

Hi all, I really need some advice please. I´m on my second patrol in Oct. 1940 in a VIIc and I tried to shadow and sneak into a convoy, now this is what happened:

Even though I was only at 32x time acceleration, the very moment I get the "ship spotted" message a corvette that I could hardly make out started firing at me! This happened to me several times. (Please note that I don´t use the 16km atmosphere mod, and please also note that the watchcrew bar is all green).

Then I tried getting near the convoy without using any acceleration. Again, after my watchcrew spotted a corvette, I didn´t even have the time to decide on diving or not or changing course, because I was immediately detected. This was especially a problem at dawn in light fog, because it seemed the destoyers just always knew where I was and I didn´t have much time to react.

So in the end it was a very frustrating experience, I was always detected, I outran the corvette or dived, then had to catch up with the convoy, all in all it took me several hours realtime and 36 hours gametime. I had no chance to even get near to a merchant (in the end I just sat down at 20m and waited for them to come, I even could sink some tonnage, and I even got away with it...

So what´s the secret? In GW 1.1a I could sneak into convoys and outmanoveur destroyers, which was both realistic and much fun. Now it seems I´m not able to spot a destroyer without being spotted myself at once. Is radar already involved??? In Oct. 1940??????

Please help, thanks in advance

AS

P.S. The reason I don´t use the 16km mod is that I get a flickering horizon sometimes and my watchcrew spots ships at 15.000km in the middle of a pitch black night, which doesn´t seem right.

[Corsair]

From reading the post, I have the impression you are running surfaced (ships spotted msg) at dawn. Doesn't sound to me like a good idea. Visual detection on warships is better than your own visual detection, specially if you give them a high profile.

[azn_132]

Hi all, I really need some advice please. I´m on my second patrol in Oct. 1940 in a VIIc and I tried to shadow and sneak into a convoy, now this is what happened:

Even though I was only at 32x time acceleration, the very moment I get the "ship spotted" message a corvette that I could hardly make out started firing at me! This happened to me several times. (Please note that I don´t use the 16km atmosphere mod, and please also note that the watchcrew bar is all green).

Then I tried getting near the convoy without using any acceleration. Again, after my watchcrew spotted a corvette, I didn´t even have the time to decide on diving or not or changing course, because I was immediately detected. This was especially a problem at dawn in light fog, because it seemed the destoyers just always knew where I was and I didn´t have much time to react.

So in the end it was a very frustrating experience, I was always detected, I outran the corvette or dived, then had to catch up with the convoy, all in all it took me several hours realtime and 36 hours gametime. I had no chance to even get near to a merchant (in the end I just sat down at 20m and waited for them to come, I even could sink some tonnage, and I even got away with it...

So what´s the secret? In GW 1.1a I could sneak into convoys and outmanoveur destroyers, which was both realistic and much fun. Now it seems I´m not able to spot a destroyer without being spotted myself at once. Is radar already involved??? In Oct. 1940??????

Please help, thanks in advance

AS

P.S. The reason I don´t use the 16km mod is that I get a flickering horizon sometimes and my watchcrew spots ships at 15.000km in the middle of a pitch black night, which doesn´t seem right.

Well, If u were me Ill take out the escorts first that way U will get as much kills as u can. The way I did it is while Im attackin a convoy in BF-somethang a Black Swan detected me, I dive to periscope depth than go to TDC and set my torp depth to between 3 to 4 meters than I put fast if Im usin a T1 or just slow when I usin a TII and wit mag pistol on when the Black Swan come about between 700-800 meters then I fired the torp and score a hit everytime an escorts comes it only work if the escort is bearing 0 in front of ur boat and doesnt turn but if it starts to turn than fired a second torp for a hit if the first one missed. And sry if Im not makin any sense or u dont get it.

[azn_132]

From reading the post, I have the impression you are running surfaced (ships spotted msg) at dawn. Doesn't sound to me like a good idea. Visual detection on warships is better than your own visual detection, specially if you give them a high profile.
I done that when I was about like 50kms away from me then I got detected so what is goin on? I keep gettin hunt down but I always escaped(except for my two others I died on it).

[danlisa]

From reading the post, I have the impression you are running surfaced (ships spotted msg) at dawn. Doesn't sound to me like a good idea. Visual detection on warships is better than your own visual detection, specially if you give them a high profile. I done that when I was about like 50kms away from me then I got detected so what is goin on? I keep gettin hunt down but I always escaped(except for my two others I died on it).

It depends on which year but I would say they've picked you up on radar.

[AS]

Excuse me, but "take out the escorts first" is really arcade crap and doesn´t belong here. :damn:

It is not true that destroyers could spot a U-Boat before the U-Boat could spot them. It was common practice to shadow a convoy for hours, sometimes for DAYS, because this was the way the wolfpack worked: one U-Boat shadowing, leading the others to the convoy. It was no problem for U-Boats to shadow convoys without being seen.

Thanks for your replies anyway.

Cheers, AS

[danlisa]

@ AS

I don't know the time of day that your were 'shadowing' this convoy or your relative position.

So far, I have had great success with following the convoy's/escorts from a safe distance behind them during the day. Then, at dusk, I would move into an attack position.

It has been shown that the excorts/DD's visual capabilities are greatly reduced at night. In fact I have been as close as 1000-700m (decks awash) at night. This is provided that you have observed the escorts patrol/route patterns and picked the correct spot/course to make your approach on.

It's not easy but it is do-able.

[azn_132]

Excuse me, but "take out the escorts first" is really arcade crap and doesn´t belong here. :damn:

It is not true that destroyers could spot a U-Boat before the U-Boat could spot them. It was common practice to shadow a convoy for hours, sometimes for DAYS, because this was the way the wolfpack worked: one U-Boat shadowing, leading the others to the convoy. It was no problem for U-Boats to shadow convoys without being seen.

Thanks for your replies anyway.

Cheers, AS
MY fault but it worked so u can get some kills wit no escorts huntin u.

[peterloo]

Well, If u were me Ill take out the escorts first that way U will get as much kills as u can. The way I did it is while Im attackin a convoy in BF-somethang a Black Swan detected me, I dive to periscope depth than go to TDC and set my torp depth to between 3 to 4 meters than I put fast if Im usin a T1 or just slow when I usin a TII and wit mag pistol on when the Black Swan come about between 700-800 meters then I fired the torp and score a hit everytime an escorts comes it only work if the escort is bearing 0 in front of ur boat and doesnt turn but if it starts to turn than fired a second torp for a hit if the first one missed. And sry if Im not makin any sense or u dont get it.

Well, I used to use this tactice in unmodded versions & NYGM & GW, with limited success (appox. 65% success)

But now, the DD got to become very smart and it can even detect me when I attempt to get into a convoy at low speed, and at periscope depth.

The covertte is far less smart. This tactice can be employed as a countermeasure for coverttes, but never destroyers and BLACK SWAN, that stuff always proves lethal for U-boats

I am getting impatient as my career ends very early with little ships sunk...
Planning to get back to GW 1.1a

Prehaps that's why SH4 is pacific campaign... The difficulty of Atlantic war is much greater and this could drive customers (who are only interesting in arcade mode play) away

[Jimbuna]

I always await the convoy from a position ahead of it if possible. As you have already realised the chances of detection by them especially whilst you are surfaced are high to say the least.
I try to sus out their search pattern in advance and skirt around them during the day/night in preparation for a dawn/dusk attack.
The only time I'll approach them on the surface is at night and even then I'm 'decks awash'
The escorts in GWX IMO are the challenge this games been missing for so long :up:

[LeafsFan]

Imo the key points to a sucessful night surface attack are

1 decks awash.
2 slowest speed feasible.
3 well timed attack.
4. high seas
5 a dark night

as you have no control over 4 and 5 night surface attacks are not always feasible, nor should they be.

HB

[AVGWarhawk]

@AS

I can honestly say I do not have destroyers detecting me at night. (1941) I do not run at the convoy during the day at all. Night time is the right time. I shadow waaaayyyy off. General course heading and lay my course to intercept at night. If I'm so lucky to get in the path of a convoy during the day, it is all done submerged.

Night time attack I can get within 500m of a destroyer if the weather is not the greatest. Placid waters not so close. Maybe 1000m off!

The warships are not super-uber. They are very real IMHO.

Convoys can be pentetrated and dispatched in GWX. I toy with them all the time. I find the side that the warships are not on:up: Send out all the torps I can and dive away. Resume the shadowing from far away! Remember, you really are not going to set off torpedos and blast around a convoy loading more....just did not happen. Working the convoy can take days:yep:

[LeafsFan]

@AS

I can honestly say I do not have destroyers detecting me at night. (1941) I do not run at the convoy during the day at all. Night time is the right time. I shadow waaaayyyy off. General course heading and lay my course to intercept at night. If I'm so lucky to get in the path of a convoy during the day, it is all done submerged.

Night time attack I can get within 500m of a destroyer if the weather is not the greatest. Placid waters not so close. Maybe 1000m off!

The warships are not super-uber. They are very real IMHO.

Convoys can be pentetrated and dispatched in GWX. I toy with them all the time. I find the side that the warships are not on:up: Send out all the torps I can and dive away. Resume the shadowing from far away! Remember, you really are not going to set off torpedos and blast around a convoy loading more....just did not happen. Working the convoy can take days:yep:

Good advice here.

HB

[Dowly]

It is not true that destroyers could spot a U-Boat before the U-Boat could spot them. It was common practice to shadow a convoy for hours, sometimes for DAYS, because this was the way the wolfpack worked: one U-Boat shadowing, leading the others to the convoy. It was no problem for U-Boats to shadow convoys without being seen.


Let´s see...

1) The destroyers watch crew was positioned higher than the uboat´s, making them see farther.
2) Destroyers optics were superior compared to the binoculars in uboat.
3) Sea is blueish, your sub´s wake is bright white, it sticks out like an flashlight in a dark room.

:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

It is not true that destroyers could spot a U-Boat before the U-Boat could spot them. It was common practice to shadow a convoy for hours, sometimes for DAYS, because this was the way the wolfpack worked: one U-Boat shadowing, leading the others to the convoy. It was no problem for U-Boats to shadow convoys without being seen.

Let´s see...

1) The destroyers watch crew was positioned higher than the uboat´s, making them see farther.
2) Destroyers optics were superior compared to the binoculars in uboat.
3) Sea is blueish, your sub´s wake is bright white, it sticks out like an flashlight in a dark room.

:up:


All true and for crying out loud the aircraft could spot you 10 miles off!!!! Ask the CVE pilots!!!

[Sailor Steve]

All true in theory, but as AS said, submarines did indeed shadow convoys for hours without being spotted.

1) The destroyers' lookouts being higher does indeed mean they can see farther, but on any less-than-perfect day the submarine is a grey blob in a grey sea, while the surface ships' masts are outlined by the horizon.

2) The only superior optics are in the fire-control rangefinders. The lookouts binoculars are exactly the same.

3) Only on a perfect sunny day. In any kind of overcast it's grey-on-grey.

The fact was that a smaller ship almost always spots a bigger ship first.

[AVGWarhawk]

All true in theory, but as AS said, submarines did indeed shadow convoys for hours without being spotted.

1) The destroyers' lookouts being higher does indeed mean they can see farther, but on any less-than-perfect day the submarine is a grey blob in a grey sea, while the surface ships' masts are outlined by the horizon.

2) The only superior optics are in the fire-control rangefinders. The lookouts binoculars are exactly the same.

3) Only on a perfect sunny day. In any kind of overcast it's grey-on-grey.

The fact was that a smaller ship almost always spots a bigger ship first.

Yes, they shadowed for days but the operative word here is shadowed....so far out you see the smoke and maybe the tip of the mast. You are in the shadows!!! They kept that distance. You are not going to sit 5000m off and not expect to be seen.
Sometimes I just lay the course and get so far away that there is not chance of me or them seeing me.

[Sailor Steve]

True. In previous sims I always submerged at around 5000 metres/yards. I didn't like it in NYGM when they spotted me at 7000, but that's really only 3-1/2 miles. Staying out at 10km is probably a good idea.

[AVGWarhawk]

True. In previous sims I always submerged at around 5000 metres/yards. I didn't like it in NYGM when they spotted me at 7000, but that's really only 3-1/2 miles. Staying out at 10km is probably a good idea.

This is where bad weather becomes your friend. You can get close in daylight very easily. I love bad weather...especially around a convoy...night time:up: Man, when the soup is thick it is the best time to dip in your spoon for the big chucks;)

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

All true in theory, but as AS said, submarines did indeed shadow convoys for hours without being spotted.

1) The destroyers' lookouts being higher does indeed mean they can see farther, but on any less-than-perfect day the submarine is a grey blob in a grey sea, while the surface ships' masts are outlined by the horizon.

2) The only superior optics are in the fire-control rangefinders. The lookouts binoculars are exactly the same.

3) Only on a perfect sunny day. In any kind of overcast it's grey-on-grey.

The fact was that a smaller ship almost always spots a bigger ship first.

Yes, they shadowed for days but the operative word here is shadowed....so far out you see the smoke and maybe the tip of the mast. You are in the shadows!!! They kept that distance. You are not going to sit 5000m off and not expect to be seen.
Sometimes I just lay the course and get so far away that there is not chance of me or them seeing me.

You beat me to it. You don't actually have to be within visual range to shadow a convoy. As long as you can keep the smoke on the horizon in sight, or follow the convoy wake itself* (that can last for hours; it's how pilots often found convoys, after all:spot wake turbulence and 'back-trail' it). The shadower could even submerge now and then to get readings on the convoy position.

The key point to remaining 'hidden' is to stay far enough out that your much smaller profile remains blended into the overall 'scenery'. You do have several advantages at that point: your diesel exhaust plumes are a lot less visible than the funnel exhaust of merchants and most warships, you sit a lot lower to the surface than most warships and merchants, you're not kicking up a wake trail to the same degree as they do (although you do make a wake, no mistake about that!).

The most telling point is this: don't throw away your biggest advantage, and that's while you've spotted them, they haven't yet spotted you. Sailor Steve is correct in that your lookouts, and theirs, start off with fairly equal optical equipment (binoculars). But if the escorts suspect a contact, they'll quickly bring to bearing the much higher powered fire-control ones in order to verify that suspicion, and those certainly will outperform you.

You truly have to be sneaky and cunning to outfox those hunters. As determined as you are to sink his ships, he is just as determined to protect them and sink you. Keep in mind everything that could betray your presence to him: your range/distance, your profile to him, whether it's day or night, whether there is a moon or not, whether it's overcast or not, the sea conditions, the weather conditions, your speed, your depth (ex. fully surfaced versus deck awash). . . maximize your advantages, minimize or eliminate your weaknesses, and you'll have a lot better success at both shadowing and intercepting escorted convoys.

*although that isn't something you can do in the game, alas

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just a quickie...

In GWX, enemy visual detection IS SPEED SENSITIVE!!!

The faster you go... the bigger your wake...

The bigger your wake... the easier you are spotted by the enemy.

You must begin to think more like a real life U-boat commander to survive...

... or nature will take its course.:|\\

[stabiz]

Yeah, about that nature-thingy ... Check the video thread. :rotfl:

[AS]

Thanks for all your replies.

I´d like to get back to my original statements, though. Seems like I didn´t express myself clearly since some people start telling me about real life U-Boat tactics and all their SH3 tactics. It´s not that I don´t know about these things. The problem I refer to in my original post was a different one, I guess.

Anyway, I´ve simply solved the problem by using the 16km mod the disadvantage being that my crew spots a trawler in pitch black night at 15.000m, plus I get some flickering graphics issue.

When it comes to "realism" it seems there are many "realism" experts out there, who provide profound information (like Sailor Steve for example), others provide mainly half-truths and a few seem to provide nonsense.

Speaking of "realism":
I know that GWX is speed sensitive, but I do not agree that this is "realistic" in any case. There´s a very detailed description in one of Buchheim´s books on how U-96 shadowed a convoy AT DAY. They didn´t care about avoiding speed, they USED speed to outmanoveure destroyers that came too close (so unless Buchheim is a liar, it WAS possible to shadow destroyers and merchants at day without being seen, and it DIDN´T give away your position at once when you increased and decreased your speed). They just made sure they were beyond the enemy´s line of sight. To do so, there was a lot of commanding (frequent changes of course and SPEED)

In one case, the captain ordered flank speed and zigzagged away from one destroyer coming a bit too close. Buchheim explicitly asks him, why he ordered flank speed. The captain answers: "flank speed produces diesel smoke which concealed us." If he had been a GWX player he certainly would have known that the HUGE bow spray a VIIc seems to produce gives away his position. Poor bastard, he didn´t know better and counted on the smoke (NOT simulated in SH3)

Speaking of realism: in real life U-Boats often used their electric engines on the surface when inside a convoy in order to avoid NOISE (NOT simulated in SH3). In this case it´s pretty obvious that their speed was very limited.

Cheers, AS

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Thanks for all your replies.

I´d like to get back to my original statements, though. Seems like I didn´t express myself clearly since some people start telling me about real life U-Boat tactics and all their SH3 tactics. It´s not that I don´t know about these things. The problem I refer to in my original post was a different one, I guess.

Anyway, I´ve simply solved the problem by using the 16km mod the disadvantage being that my crew spots a trawler in pitch black night at 15.000m, plus I get some flickering graphics issue.

When it comes to "realism" it seems there are many "realism" experts out there, who provide profound information (like Sailor Steve for example), others provide mainly half-truths and a few seem to provide nonsense.

Speaking of "realism":
I know that GWX is speed sensitive, but I do not agree that this is "realistic" in any case. There´s a very detailed description in one of Buchheim´s books on how U-96 shadowed a convoy AT DAY. They didn´t care about avoiding speed, they USED speed to outmanoveure destroyers that came too close (so unless Buchheim is a liar, it WAS possible to shadow destroyers and merchants at day without being seen, and it DIDN´T give away your position at once when you increased and decreased your speed). They just made sure they were beyond the enemy´s line of sight. To do so, there was a lot of commanding (frequent changes of course and SPEED)

In one case, the captain ordered flank speed and zigzagged away from one destroyer coming a bit too close. Buchheim explicitly asks him, why he ordered flank speed. The captain answers: "flank speed produces diesel smoke which concealed us." If he had been a GWX player he certainly would have known that the HUGE bow spray a VIIc seems to produce gives away his position. Poor bastard, he didn´t know better and counted on the smoke (NOT simulated in SH3)

Speaking of realism: in real life U-Boats often used their electric engines on the surface when inside a convoy in order to avoid NOISE (NOT simulated in SH3). In this case it´s pretty obvious that their speed was very limited.

Cheers, AS

Well, I'm not going to argue with you. The advice I offered was not given while looking down my nose from the lofty castle that I live in on Mount Olympus. I was simply trying to help.

I'm just going to say a few things and leave you with that:

In real life... they didn't have to fight the limitations of SH3 code. Also, the act of simply plugging in real-life data... does not always produce results consistant with real-life situations and events.

I know you recognize this in reference to the code...

However, "realism" in SH3 (considering neither you nor I were U-boatmen...) must be at some point determined by a reader by his/her interpretation of the data. Data from one source is often easily be contradicted by another. "Realism" is a subjective concept.

If you take the time to read the GWX manual... some further advice you seek is in there... and IT WORKS!!!

In the months we spent modding the sensors... I personally managed to successfully evade every harsh situation I could create... though not every single time.

I'm getting tired of seeing the word "uber" (overpowered) tossed around so easily.

The sensors were not "UBERED." Their sensitivities were increased to reach a certain level of effectiveness.

Two things will kill you quite dead even early in the war if you are not vigilant:
1) Impatience (Getting careless with respect to the ability of the enemy to find and kill you.)
2) Target Fixation (Which is simply a variant of item 1 above.) You have to be willing to let the target go on occasion.

The U-boat Commander's Handbook WILL help you... and there is no shame in it. Reading between its lines and listening to what it DID NOT say... offered me much asistance in modding the sensors... and later surviving them.

The element of risk we've placed in GWX will remain. Without the "fear factor" users would get bored quickly anyway.

Nothing we do will make everyone happy. If you don't care for the ASW package in GWX... you certainly have alternatives.

[AVGWarhawk]

As I see it, the sensors now make the warships a factor in your decision to move forward with the attack or rethink your attack. The warships were just something of a bother in vanilla, now they are something to contend with and have become a BIG part of strategy and accomplishing/failure your goal. Definitly a bigger challenge.

One would have to admit that if the warships were just lazy dumbass bothersome pieces of steel, the game would get quite boring.....not unlike the vanilla version;). What other challenge is there in the game other than some tough warships that are relentless in sinking your butt? Nothing! Some lumbering merchants quite frankly are not challenging (until they have a deck gun).

There are just a handful of things in the game that can be worked and modded. Somethings are just not going to be human in nature when using values to create a human world. What the GWX team has done with these values to create the best possible balance is quite good...IMHO:D

[AS]

@Kpt. Lehmann: Thank you very much for your profound reply. I was NOT trying to offend you or critizise your GWX mod which I GLADLY use all the time. I just wanted to hint at an observation I had made (see original post) and I´m sorry if I offended you by talking about "uber destroyers" in the title, but this was done to get straight to the point.

The things I wrote about realism were also not meant to attack or critizise YOU (I know that you made the very best of SH3 and I know that the program limits modders), I wanted to critize those who made some haughty remarks about how realistic everything is while I´m too stupid to understand. That´s the reason why I got somewhat ironic in my last post. Maybe I´m a bit touchy here, but sometimes it´s hard to listen to all those half-truths and nonsense that is spread here. On the other hand you are certainly right about neither you nor me were U-Boat men, and different reading provides different information.

However, the more you read the more you´ll come to the conclusion that getting into a convoy wasn´t too hard till 1942, which has to do with an issue that sadly is not simulated in SH3 and probably can´t be changed: real convoys were spread over much more space, so it wasn´t that easy for destroyers to cover every little area and be everywhere at once.

Cheers, AS

P.S. I just tried to omitt the "uber" in the thread title but unfortunately it didn´t work.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@Kpt. Lehmann: Thank you very much for your profound reply. I was NOT trying to offend you or critizise your GWX mod which I GLADLY use all the time. I just wanted to hint at an observation I had made (see original post) and I´m sorry if I offended you by talking about "uber destroyers" in the title, but this was done to get straight to the point.

The things I wrote about realism were also not meant to attack or critizise YOU (I know that you made the very best of SH3 and I know that the program limits modders), I wanted to critize those who made some haughty remarks about how realistic everything is while I´m too stupid to understand. That´s the reason why I got somewhat ironic in my last post. Maybe I´m a bit touchy here, but sometimes it´s hard to listen to all those half-truths and nonsense that is spread here. On the other hand you are certainly right about neither you nor me were U-Boat men, and different reading provides different information.

However, the more you read the more you´ll come to the conclusion that getting into a convoy wasn´t too hard till 1942, which has to do with an issue that sadly is not simulated in SH3 and probably can´t be changed: real convoys were spread over much more space, so it wasn´t that easy for destroyers to cover every little area and be everywhere at once.

Cheers, AS

P.S. I just tried to omitt the "uber" in the thread title but unfortunately it didn´t work.

@AS

I apologize... I'm just too used to being flamed I guess. I'm sorry if I came across rather harshly.:oops:

[Mav87th]

I was nearly scared away AS, but.....

Since you know ill just flash your memory - mind i don't know if you sail by these rules as well.

Distance to a shadowed CV - about 12-14km's so one only can see smoke of the nearest escort. Usualy im to close and detected by an escort if i can see smoke of a Merchant.

Place to shadow - in day time "Up Sun", meaning that the escorts will look into the sun while looking at you. Night time "um moon", meaning that the escorts will NOT look at your moonlit side of the uboot. Mind that you do not lie in the moon glare in the water when closing into the CV.

Speed - absolutely does not matter while out at the correct distance. I nearly every time im overtaking a CV go at 15 kts all the way without problems. It might increase the range they can spot you a tad, or just increase the %chance of spotting you, but if that chance is very low to begin with due to good range, then what the "#¤" - not a factor imo.

For me the biggest issue here is the light. I find it that when ever i DONT plan my attacks correctly or are "Forced" to shadow a convoy on the wrong "light side" im getting into trouble.

Lastly a small evation tip - much like Buchheim - when ever a gets a fix on you (HF/DF from one of your Contact reports fx.) and starts to bear into your position on the HF/DF i usualy put the low tail profile on him and keep that for about 2000 meters - then back to course and dive to 14 meters keeping speed to max. Then i keep taking fix'es on the escort and will not drop the flank untill he is about 4000 meters from me. At that point the usualy start circling the "old" position to look for the uboo there and when he is stearn at you you flank away. That way one can keep up with the convoy while submerged. This trick does NOT work if you shadow the convoy sailing behind it - it only works shadowing on the side.

If you knew it all in advance - sorry for the wasted time...:arrgh!:

And to Lehmann - using the bible sure does work. A good advice you gave there.

[Koinonos]

I found that part of the problem for me was that playing GWX 1.0 there is an issue where running silent still has the propellers turning faster than 100rpm.

Install the fix and I think you'll find that you can come closer than before since you are now making less noise.

With the update I can have close in to just over 1,000 meters with DD & DE's and they will not detect me if I a running silent and stopped at periscope depth. Then I can close in and shoot some Type II electric eels around 1,100 - 3,000 meters away with great success.

I thought I would mention this *just in case* your issue is that you need the GWX Dec update: Install Link Here for the Dec 23rd GWX update file.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102096

[AS]

@Kpt. Lehmann: Thanks for your reply, your time and good hunting!!!

@Mav87th: thanks for your reply, very interesting read. The problem I depicted in my original post occures when not using the 16km mod. Now I just use it and things work better now.

I did know about some of your tactics, but I´ll try out the "full speed till he gets within 4000m"-tactic ... I´ve always been to cowardly to try that...:oops:

Cheers, AS

@Shanec: Thanks for your reply, but I was talking about being detected while surfaced. Never mind, the problem seems to be solved now.

Cheers, AS