Another School Shooting

[AG124]

There has been another school shooting - in Washington this time. One student is dead, and the shooter has been taken into custody.

:nope:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/03/school.shooting/index.html?section=cnn_latest

I don't think this has been posted yet, but if it has then the threads could be merged I guess.

[TteFAboB]

And people laughed at SUBMAN when he suggested we should've pulled out of Washington.

[U-533]

Well as I have asked before (not sure if it was here or not) "If one is taught that all life evolved and there will be nothing after one dies...then why should one have any morals"?

[Fish]

Well as I have asked before (not sure if it was here or not) "If one is taught that all life evolved and there will be nothing after one dies...then why should one have any morals"?

Because we are social animals!:up:

Humanist have a high moral, and they don't believe in a hereafter.:yep:

[CCIP]

Likewise, people like me ask "how people could value life if they believed it was guided by higher powers and the best part came after it anyway". :p
I'm about as close as reasonably possible to a nihilist, but I consider myself one of the more 'moral' people I know - I have no morals, just a practical principle of goodwill without a cause. It seems to work better than morals.

Read Dostoyevski's "Brothers Karamazov", it grapples with this problem from all angles.

***

As for the shooting, what can I say. An unfortunate fact? Maybe I'm desensitized, but it doesn't surprise me anymore. There are a lot of disturbed people out there, and some occasionally blow up.

[Camaero]

It was better when people who had disagreements fought it out with their fists. Both went home with bloody noses. Now people just whip out guns and shoot eachother.

People like the shooter are nothing but pathetic little nothings.:down:

[Torplexed]

This took place in Tacoma where I work, so it has been the subject d' jour for sure. I've come to believe we need to reform our archaic high school system away from this insane system where we try to muddle through every student from the brightest to the bitterest. We should have three tracks. One for the college bound. One for the vocational tech/trade school bound. And a fast track out into the streets for the tiny percentage of sociopathic losers who make education hell for everyone else. :damn:

[AG124]

A little more news on the shooting is available now - apparently, it wasn't a general shootout like the others which occurred earlier in the year, as the gunman only targeted the one student who was shot. Also, he had no previous criminal record, and the shooting wasn't gang-related or racially motivated.

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=48900

[Tchocky]

This took place in Tacoma where I work, so it has been the subject d' jour for sure. I've come to believe we need to reform our archaic high school system away from this insane system where we try to muddle through every student from the brightest to the bitterest. We should have three tracks. One for the college bound. One for the vocational tech/trade school bound. And a fast track out into the streets for the tiny percentage of sociopathic losers who make education hell for everyone else. :damn:

That's a terrible idea. When does high school begin? At what age? Here its at around age 12.

Do you honestly recommend streaming kids and keeping them seperated during the formative years of their life?

[U-533]

So what is to be done with so called "sociopathic losers".
I do not believe it fair to keep feeding such as these.
They never are "Reformed" (if there has been any please give evidence I would like to know) and I don't believe that anyone would take the chance to say they are "Reformed", then send the "sociopathic losers" back into society.

I have seen some child molesters and rapists getting a second chance only to the horrible crimes again or worse. Some of them were caught by the family members or friends of the defendants and "taken care of".


.... idunno .... it leaves me with a feeling of disgust when liberal thinking people believe 'sociopathic losers' , 'child molesters', and 'rapists' can be "Reformed".

but so goes the Roman Empire

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103194
Heres something to chew on.
Just thinking we are heading down the "Roman Road".

[AG124]

There was a recent case in Canada, where a child killer was let out on parole and then sexually assaulted a little boy at gun point soon after.:nope: I don't know why people like this are allowed to walk the streets again at all, but I think there are plans in Canada now to make it harder for murderers and rapists to get parole (although I don't know the details).

[Tchocky]

I think my first step in combating school shootings would be getting rid of the guns, then investigating the support systems in place. Very often the kids who carry out these shootings are victims of bullying at either school or at home. Thats not the only cause, but one has to remember that we're dealing with teenagers here

[AVGWarhawk]

First and foremost, the public educational system needs to be revamped. Uniforms need to be implemented. What kids are wearing to schools these days are deplorable. The use of uniforms for students lessens stress on kids who have to compete or be up with the latest fashion. Furthermore, uniforms to not allow for loose clothing that helps hide weapons. Additionally, if the children would like to act like animals then they are to be treated like animals. Each school day there will be a few doors that have metal detectors. Also implement metal detector wands. Also, the idea that parents can sue over just about anything trivial is held over teachers and adminstrators heads. It is a damn free for all. If a kid screws up, he is thrown out for good. Send him to a nice vocational school where he can learn woodworking or something. There needs to be more parental control and parents need to be responsible for their kids actions. If more parents were put on the spot for their kids deeds, it would be all to soon they wake up and watch what they are doing. If this kid got the gun from his dad's collection, guess what, dad's ass is in a sling now. Pretty simple. Next dad in line with weapons will have them locked up PERIOD! Welcome to the age of the irresponsible taking care of the irresponsible.

[The Noob]

This post was bull****.

Its not of any relevance for security what people wear at school. You just dislike what they wear and want to press conservative uniforms on them using school-shooting events as an excuse for this intolerant action.

And "kids who have to compete or be up with the latest fashion" are simply dumb. Fashion is overrated bullcrap. :yep:

Any rule that tells me to wear "school uniform" will be another rule i break. And i would accept responsibility for the consequences. Im staying out of trouble usually, but this goes to far.

Greetings and sorry for the slightly pissed tone this post has.

[ASWnut101]

For once, I actually agree with Noob here.:yep:

[CCIP]

I was in a uniformed school, and to be honest - I didn't see much of a difference. It was a better-than-average school, of course, but I don't think the uniforms were neccesarily a big part of it. In fact I liked uniforms - but to think that would change anything is ridiculous. We had all the types of creepy people one would expect in any school - and we even had our 'death threats' and whatnot, and post-Columbine scares.

Just by dressing people up to all look the same, you ain't gonna prevent them from thinking anything!

[AVGWarhawk]

This post was bull****.

Its not of any relevance for security what people wear at school. You just dislike what they wear and want to press conservative uniforms on them using school-shooting events as an excuse for this intolerant action.

And "kids who have to compete or be up with the latest fashion" are simply dumb. Fashion is overrated bullcrap. :yep:

Any rule that tells me to wear "school uniform" will be another rule i break. And i would accept responsibility for the consequences. Im staying out of trouble usually, but this goes to far.

Greetings and sorry for the slightly pissed tone this post has.

Sorry but that is just the bullcrap bucking authority attitude running rampid today. Thank you for pointing out the problem. Young bucks like yourself do not respect authority and think it is OK. Sorry friend, it ain't OK. Just what I want, my two daughters to see, your ass hanging out of droopy pants 10 times your size. I really hope you enjoy working at McDonalds because basically thats were you will end up. You must be the one that takes the short bus to school and leaves at halftime for autoshop. Good luck to you mate. You will need it! Sorry for your pissed off response???? When you are not so wet behind the ears perhaps I will listen to you until them if I need your opinion I will rattle your cage!!!


It is not that the uniforms correct the problem it is part of preparing a mind set for school and a learning type atmosphere. School has become nothing but a social event. It is cellphone/Ipod heaven without any control of kids who buck authority. It happens at home as well. Kids need boundries. Not free to run rampid doing what they want. I suspect all that agree with the Noob DO NOT have kids. Sorry kids, my girls do not wear Britney Spears low cut jeans that leave nothing to the imagination. They wear uniforms and are at school to learn and respect authority/elders. They are not at school to score the last Tom, Dick or Harry!!!

BTW if you think that clothing cannot hid weapons....think about the boys at Columbine.....droopy pants and long leather jackets which are just perfect for hiding rifles/shotguns.

Again, thanks Noob for pointing out the problem....."I ain't gonna do that crap".....that is why society is in the basket on it's way to hell. The "I ain't" attitude get people hurt and killed.

Sorry, I like my conservative attitude, golly days, it is what got this country into being a WORLD SUPER POWER in under 100 years. Hmmmmmm, I guess it works.....

[CCIP]

This isn't about authority - I think this is more a matter of where their attention is going. In which case I agree that a lot of kids' attention is going to appearance when it shouldn't be, but I point out to you again: I went to a uniformed school, and IMHO the effect was nil. The reason the school had an above-average performance was not an authoritarian uniform rule, but good, progressive teachers. Uniforms gave the appearance normalcy, but all the usual problems were there under the surface.

As far as authority, don't even get me started; I had to fight an authoritarian school system for years and it was not pretty. Nothing makes the kids hate the 'normal' society like the threat of authority, and nothing tempts them to do 'bad' stuff more than it becoming forbidden fruit. Nothing is more discouraging to a lot of bright and creative students than teachers that act in an authoritarian way.

In principle I'm willing to support uniforms but for a completely different and practical reason; I think people that expect the conservative methods of uniform and top-down authority will be bitterly disappointed to find out that the effects they have are totally not what is expected.

Nor are the 'old days' so good as people imagine them. I would say modern Western schooling is far from ideal, but I'll readily say it's far better than at any point in the past, and probably better than anywhere else in the world.

[The Noob]

Sorry but that is just the bullcrap bucking authority attitude running rampid today. Thank you for pointing out the problem. Young bucks like yourself do not respect authority and think it is OK. Sorry friend, it ain't OK.
I dislike this society and how it works. I also dislike the authority it formed. So, yes, i object to this authority.

Just what I want, my two daughters to see, your ass hanging out of droopy pants 10 times your size.
I dont dress like that, its just stupid. Still i think everyone should have the choice to wear what they want.

I really hope you enjoy working at McDonalds because basically thats were you will end up.
No problem with that. I'll always have a job then. I mean as long as i sill can operate that slurpee machine... :lol:

I never wanted anything more and i dont need anything more.

You must be the one that takes the short bus to school and leaves at halftime for autoshop.
Bull****. If you would drop your stereotypes for a second you might get an idea who i am. But you dont care anyway as long as you can flame everyone under 21...

Good luck to you mate. You will need it!
Thank you.

Sorry for your pissed off response???? When you are not so wet behind the ears perhaps I will listen to you until them if I need your opinion I will rattle your cage!!!
If i need for your opinion then i will press the button on your weelchair.

It is not that the uniforms correct the problem it is part of preparing a mind set for school and a learning type atmosphere. School has become nothing but a social event. It is cellphone/Ipod heaven without any control of kids who buck authority.
50's are over.

I suspect all that agree with the Noob DO NOT have kids.
I know some 25+ people in real life that agree with me in a heartbeat. But they dont even have a computer.

BTW if you think that clothing cannot hid weapons....think about the boys at Columbine.....droopy pants and long leather jackets which are just perfect for hiding rifles/shotguns.
As long as society is as ****ed up as it currently is things like this are just going to happend, nothing we can do about it.

Again, thanks Noob for pointing out the problem....."I ain't gonna do that crap".....that is why society is in the basket on it's way to hell.
"I aint gonna do that crap" is what brought us away from the pure hell life was in the 50's and 60's, where "elder authority" was running around loose without resistance.

Minimal changes will only archive minimal difference. If they dont bring thier weapons in the school hidden in thier colthing, then they will find another way. What has to be eliminated is the reason for people acting like this, and this reason is not going to be found in peoples clothing.

Of course things like school shootings are horrable, but they have and will, always happend.

And thats my last post on the matter. Damn, i should never have posted anything in the first place...:damn:

[joea]

And thats my last post on the matter. Damn, i should never have posted anything in the first place...:damn:

WRONG!!! You are entitled to your opinion as anyone else, damn I wish more young people were as thoughtful as you, regardless of whether I agree with you or not...we need different points of view here as long as we are civilised.

[Takeda Shingen]

Warning #1: Do not engage in personal attacks.

Thanks,
The Managment

[U-533]

Friends , fellow countrymen , Romans... we can bicker till the moon crashes into the earth ... but there is a responsibility issue here... laws and restrictions can be placed on weapons and teenagers and uniforms and teachers and parents and police etc. etc. etc. until your blue in the face.

We can "Revamp" schools and systems , pour hundreds of millions of tax payers hard earned dollars into some thing that has already had hundreds of millions of dollars poured into it , until the country goes broke. It will not stop what can not be bought.

We can make sure little Johnny and Suzy know every thing there is to know about copulation.

We can drown students in information about drugs.

......What is sadly lacking in our world today is the Family.....

The leadership role of the Father.
The nurturing love and care of the Mother.
The Children who are taught respect, discipline, and honesty.

These are not found to often in the American home anymore.
Instead, in the home, we find a breeding ground for soul sick individuals bent on world conquest...who if they did obtain world conquest they still would not be content.

........

So... where does that leave the issue?

Who will be held responsible for this?

Remmeber if you point the finger you will have at least 3 of your own pointing back at you.


.....

[AVGWarhawk]

Friends , fellow countrymen , Romans... we can bicker till the moon crashes into the earth ... but there is a responsibility issue here... laws and restrictions can be placed on weapons and teenagers and uniforms and teachers and parents and police etc. etc. etc. until your blue in the face.

We can "Revamp" schools and systems , pour hundreds of millions of tax payers hard earned dollars into some thing that has already had hundreds of millions of dollars poured into it , until the country goes broke. It will not stop what can not be bought.

We can make sure little Johnny and Suzy know every thing there is to know about copulation.

We can drown students in information about drugs.

......What is sadly lacking in our world today is the Family.....

The leadership role of the Father.
The nurturing love and care of the Mother.
The Children who are taught respect, discipline, and honesty.

These are not found to often in the American home anymore.
Instead, in the home, we find a breeding ground for soul sick individuals bent on world conquest...who if they did obtain world conquest they still would not be content.

........

So... where does that leave the issue?

Who will be held responsible for this?

Remmeber if you point the finger you will have at least 3 of your own pointing back at you.


.....



Right on the money. The responsibility starts at home.:up: The soul sick parents bent on getting the Benzo or Lincoln breed children with no idea of life other than what the comedy channel has to offer. I graciously do not do the trips to Disneyland and drive the flag ship automobile from Lexus because I cannot on one income because we prefer to have MOM at home to be there for our kids. The trips will come later when my kids are grown and off to a good start in life. It is at that time I get the Lexus and slap a sticker on the bumper that says "I'm spending my kids inheritance."

[The Noob]

I apologize for the flaming and stuff. You all got some valid points there and we agree that something must be done, but we have different opinions how it should be done. Again i apologize for the flaming and i hope that i maybe learn something from the posts on this matter.

/sits back and watches

[CCIP]

Okay, I'm also totally up with the idea of the family there :yep:

That's actually kind of what I should have been getting at - I think with the kids that I've known to be the good ones and those who were the problematic ones, the difference wasn't uniform or dress code, but the way they were brought up by their parents. Authority or not, I think it's a fact that family should have and do have a power to raise their children that any other element in society can. So yea, for every accusation we tack onto the school system, I think there should be a question of 'where are the parents looking?'

[AVGWarhawk]

I apologize for the flaming and stuff. You all got some valid points there and we agree that something must be done, but we have different opinions how it should be done. Again i apologize for the flaming and i hope that i maybe learn something from the posts on this matter.

/sits back and watches

One thing we learned is there is no easy answer but it must start at home. A good home starts with a sturdy foundation of mortor and block. Not broken promises and neglect. Leaving kids to their own devices proves time and time again a bad idea. Again, boundries must be set and kids need to looked after. Kids are expected to grow up much to early in my view. Oh well, I cannot change the world but I hope I'm guiding the ones in my home into, hopefully, a productive life.

Here's a good one. Two kids in my 8 year old daughters class got cellphones for Christmas. WTF. Do they need to cellphone to know were Mom is? I wonder how I survived when I was a kid??? If your kid needs a cellphone at the age of 8....you are allowing them to get too far from view.

My apologises to The Noob for the flaming....I still find some of your retorts funny as hell:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Oh hell my wheelchair battery is running low:shifty:

[Tchocky]

Is there anything to be said for keeping guns away from teenagers? It seems to be the logical first step to me.

Additionally, if the children would like to act like animals then they are to be treated like animals. Each school day there will be a few doors that have metal detectors. Also implement metal detector wands. Also, the idea that parents can sue over just about anything trivial is held over teachers and adminstrators heads. It is a damn free for all. If a kid screws up, he is thrown out for good. Send him to a nice vocational school where he can learn woodworking or something.
Treat kids like criminals and thats what they'll become. We all know what its like to be a teenager, those are crucially important years. I think an authoritarian school system would be counter-productive in the extreme, reminds me of the Stanford Experiment somewhat. My school was uniformed, yes, but that made very little difference. The school was run on a partnership basis, with faculty and students as partners. Unequal parnters yes, but thats a given.

But of course school wasnt bliss. I was bullied (mildly by some standards), and can imagine that feeling, extrapolated to the severity reported in some school shooting cases, being totally driving and dominating. Who do these kids talk to?

They wont talk to a ****ing metal detector

[Yahoshua]

Teach them responsibility. Teach them that it's dangerous to play with fire, and they'll be irrevocably burned if they keep playing with it.

What methods and techniques you decide to use are up to you, but the message MUST get across.

[U-533]

Is there anything to be said for keeping guns away from teenagers? It seems to be the logical first step to me.

Additionally, if the children would like to act like animals then they are to be treated like animals. Each school day there will be a few doors that have metal detectors. Also implement metal detector wands. Also, the idea that parents can sue over just about anything trivial is held over teachers and adminstrators heads. It is a damn free for all. If a kid screws up, he is thrown out for good. Send him to a nice vocational school where he can learn woodworking or something.
Treat kids like criminals and thats what they'll become. We all know what its like to be a teenager, those are crucially important years. I think an authoritarian school system would be counter-productive in the extreme, reminds me of the Stanford Experiment somewhat. My school was uniformed, yes, but that made very little difference. The school was run on a partnership basis, with faculty and students as partners. Unequal parnters yes, but thats a given.

But of course school wasnt bliss. I was bullied (mildly by some standards), and can imagine that feeling, extrapolated to the severity reported in some school shooting cases, being totally driving and dominating. Who do these kids talk to?

They wont talk to a ****ing metal detector

-----

You do have a point there ... but the generation that is in their teens now and early twenties will have to be left to their own judgement ... I blame it on the parents for not spanking their behinds (Damn Dr. Spock).

At the risk of soundi............. I was about to go into a diatribe about the "Evil Dr. Spock" but I think that his work has its own consequences, look around and see what he hath wrought.

well gotta go to work ...later:sunny: