I'm sure this is an old SH3 Commander ?

[Swany6mm]

Ok, I've read the FAQ and searched the forums, but the only stuff I can find all reads as if you already know what you are doing some what with SH3C. This is the first time I've ever used it and the instructions, for me at least, read confusing. I'd like to find a "Barney" style set of instructions. Not so much for using it's options but on launching and playing SH3.

If I missed the answers to my questions posted below in another post some where, please feel free to just point out the post(s). I'm more than happy to do my own reading and not have everyone waste their time re-typing everything. I'm just not having luck finding what I need.

1) Do I have to run SH3 through SH3C using the Launch button every time I want to play, or is that just there to be handy?

2) If the Roll-Back button is there only to use to put the game back to it's original state so you can add other mods, why, when using the Launch button, does SH3C roll back automatically? Doesn't that defet what you are trying to do? Doesn't that roll the game back to pre-SH3C state? And why does it remind you to Roll-Back everytime you finished playing? This is the most confusing part for me. The FAQ and everything else I've read about Roll-Back reads that it's only for adding more MOD's, but it seems like the Roll Back happens whether you want it to or not and that you HAVE to do it twice, once at the start of playing and one at the end. What happens if I tell it No I don't want to manually roll back at the end? (This is very frustrating. Almost to the point that I want to remove SH3C and never use it again).

3) I gather that SH3C doesn't see your career until mid-point or completion of the first patrol, but the FAQ reads that you can still play if you have saved before that. I was in a patrol that was about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way in, had to leave, so I saved but my saves don't show up. I tried playing by launching via SH3C, by rolling back and then launching SH3 manually, but nothing I do is getting my saves back. I don't have all the time in the world to play a mission all the way through in one sitting. Is there anything I can do to get those saves back or do I have to start again?

I'm sorry if this has been asked time and again and I'm just not finding the answers. SH3C gets great reviews and has the look of a very cool add-on, but it really REALLY needs very clear, very concise, very simple instructions. It assumes you already know something about the product and not everyone does.

As goofy as it seems, that's why you find a lot of those really dumb instructions when you buy stuff ;) I've written what I thought were very clear instructions for people before and assumed a few things myself, only to have the come back and say "Huh?" I've learned to never assume anything and ALWAYS spell everything out for them. It's better to over load them with instructions, allowing them to skip over what they don't need, than to not give enough instruction and have them creating problems for themselves.

[bigboywooly]

Ok the rollback button
With 2.7 you get a reminder to rollback when you exit
Now if you are not planning to add ANY mods or play online then you dont need to rollback
If you dont rollback before adding mods or even uninstalling SH3commander it will cause you no end of grief
When you start up SH3 thru commander yes it does rollback to add in any date based changes - commander files have random events and date sensitive files that are added

You dont have to run SH3 thru commander every time but its a 2 second job
Hardly worldshattering is it
Plus you can always manage your crew and give out medals etc before you actually run the game

I always start my career through SH3commander
before even the first patrol

Not sure what version you have there but 2.7 is the latest
SH3commander is probably the best stand alone mod ever invented for SH3

[JScones]

1) Do I have to run SH3 through SH3C using the Launch button every time I want to play, or is that just there to be handy?
You don't have to, but you won't get any of SH3Cmdr's features when you don't (obviously). Also, unless you've rolled back SH3Cmdr, you'll still have SH3Cmdr files in your SH3 installation which may not be relevant/applicable to the "current" career circumstances (ie old news files or other changes based on earlier career dates).

Re-read the "Features" block of the readme file which explains what SH3Cmdr does each time it launches SH3.

I recommend using SH3Cmdr every time you launch a career.

2) If the Roll-Back button is there only to use to put the game back to it's original state so you can add other mods, why, when using the Launch button, does SH3C roll back automatically? Doesn't that defet what you are trying to do? Doesn't that roll the game back to pre-SH3C state? And why does it remind you to Roll-Back everytime you finished playing? This is the most confusing part for me. The FAQ and everything else I've read about Roll-Back reads that it's only for adding more MOD's, but it seems like the Roll Back happens whether you want it to or not and that you HAVE to do it twice, once at the start of playing and one at the end. What happens if I tell it No I don't want to manually roll back at the end? (This is very frustrating. Almost to the point that I want to remove SH3C and never use it again).
Just think logically for a second - when SH3Cmdr runs, it mods SH3, so what should it do first? Rollback to avoid conflicts! No different to when making *any* changes to SH3.

You seem really concerned over something that is quite simple. Rollback simply returns SH3 back to its pre-SH3Cmdr state. Rollback will only occur once, even if you press the button 500 times (which you can't do, but just to highlight a point). Why the reminder after exiting SH3? Because some people forget to rollback, then mod their game and wonder why SH3 crashes. You don't have to select yes if you don't want to - you can select no. Selecting "yes" means rollback occurs straight away. When SH3Cmdr next launches SH3, it will attempt to rollback first (for the reason I mentioned above), but there will be nothing to rollback so it will merrily continue.

Selecting "no" to the reminder message means the SH3Cmdr files and changes remain in SH3, to be cleaned up when SH3Cmdr next launches SH3 or you load SH3Cmdr and press the Rollback button. But selecting no means that you must remember to manually rollback SH3Cmdr should you want to make modifications to your SH3 installation in the meantime (or should you wish, for whatever reason, to load a career without SH3Cmdr).

So, if you know that you will never mod SH3, you can select no and let SH3Cmdr clean up when it next runs. But if you are not sure, or simply don't trust yourself, select yes and all will be done straight away so you can forget about it.

Basically it is all about timing. Either rollback now, or rollback later. The choice is all yours. No dramas, and definately nothing to be confused or frustrated about.

BTW, I always select yes, simply so SH3Cmdr reloads and I can update my Personnel File. After that, I rollback and exit SH3Cmdr. I then forget about it and know that I can mod away without conflict.

3) I gather that SH3C doesn't see your career until mid-point or completion of the first patrol, but the FAQ reads that you can still play if you have saved before that. I was in a patrol that was about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way in, had to leave, so I saved but my saves don't show up. I tried playing by launching via SH3C, by rolling back and then launching SH3 manually, but nothing I do is getting my saves back. I don't have all the time in the world to play a mission all the way through in one sitting. Is there anything I can do to get those saves back or do I have to start again?
You are very literal aren't you? LOL! Saving mid-patrol does not mean saving at the exact 50% mark - it means saving while at sea, or midst-sea. The term mid-patrol is used to be consistent with SH3 labelling.

Missing/lost save games is a random feature of stock-SH3. What you describe is unrelated to SH3Cmdr, especially as you have stated that SH3 is also not recognising the save game. If a save game exists, SH3Cmdr (and generally SH3 for that matter) will find it. Are you sure you saved your patrol correctly? IIRC you need to press the Save button twice.

Apparently, renaming the save game folder to something else then changing it back helps, but as I never save mid-patrol because of all the documented problems with doing so, I'm not exactly sure of the solution. So you can either a) search the forum or b) wait for someone more versed in the issue to answer.

In the meantime, look in your \My Documents\SH3\data\cfg\Careers\<Commander's Name>\0\ folder and confirm that there is a .sav file. If not, then no save games exist for that career.

[fredbass]

I've got an idea. If you put out another version of Commander, just make it so a rollback is automatically done no matter what.

Issue solved. :up:

[JScones]

I've got an idea. If you put out another version of Commander, just make it so a rollback is automatically done no matter what.

Issue solved. :up:
Ah, but what if you want to generate a Personnel File that picks up the details of the changes SH3Cmdr made? For example, Flotilla name changes prior to Jan 1940? I always like to generate a Personnel File before rolling back as it provides the most accurate snapshot of my career at that point.

Anyway, to be honest, when I first started on SH3Cmdr back in April 2005, I didn't expect it to be as popular as it has become. I also didn't expect the humble first version to expand to include what it does now. And more importantly, I didn't expect SH3 to evolve the way it has. In other words, if I had my time again, I would develop SH3Cmdr *totally* differently - the concept of rolling back would be nothing like it is now. Indeed, SH3Cmdr would employ a method which I use in my commercial software, which has none of these rollback issues.

To that end, any changes I make to SH3Cmdr now are really only bandaids - and I hate bandaids. Having SH3Cmdr auto-roll back could be done reasonably easily, but it would go against programming principles. And to be done right would require a total rehaul of SH3Cmdr...something which simply isn't an option for me.

I think the current solution is the best compromise...at least for me. ;)

[Swany6mm]

Ok, still a tad confused, but a little better. Yes, it's 2.7

First, yes, I am litteral ;) Drives my wife and kids nuts some times. But that's not why I said what I did about being about 1/4 of the way in. If needed, I'll look it up so I can quote it exactly, but there was a spot where I was reading that actually said that SH3C wouldn't see your career until you were at least half way through your first mission. Moot point any how, now knowing that the missing saves (which, yes, they are there) is an SH3 issue and not an SH3C. I figured it had something to do with SH3C as I've run the game many times before (never with SH3C) and NEVER lost any saves. This is the first time, so.....Any ways, I'll do research on that now ;)

Ok, back to the roll back. My confusion still comes in with; if using the Roll Back puts the game at a pre-SH3C state, why then does SH3C roll-back when you launch SH3? Doesn't that put the game back to a pre-mod'ed, pre-SH3C state? Killing off the SH3C changes? I've read the feature list and that's why I decided to install it (along with GWX and the fixed CFG files for GWX/SH3C).

Here's what I'm hearing - When lauching SH3 via SH3C, SH3C rolls back to a STOCK game, then runs SH3, thus killing off any MODs performed by SH3C. But what you are saying is that's not what's happening? If not, then what IS it doing when it Roll's back. See my confusion? I'm being told that it does one thing, but then being told no, it's something else. Kind of reminds me of that old Abbot and Costello routine, "Who's on First?" ;)

I get the idea behind the reminder now. Just a reminder, nothing else. Gotcha. So, when I exit, from now on, I'll just say "No" until I know I want to run a new MOD.

I'm really a hands on, step-by-step kind of person. I'm one of those that really needs to understand what's happening in the background in order to know what's going on and what it's doing ;) (I'm also very VERY tired at the moment. Just got back from a family hike up to the top of Diamond Head crater with my son that's visiting from the main land. LONG hike straight up ;) )

[JScones]

Ok, back to the roll back. My confusion still comes in with; if using the Roll Back puts the game at a pre-SH3C state, why then does SH3C roll-back when you launch SH3? Doesn't that put the game back to a pre-mod'ed, pre-SH3C state? Killing off the SH3C changes? I've read the feature list and that's why I decided to install it (along with GWX and the fixed CFG files for GWX/SH3C).

Here's what I'm hearing - When lauching SH3 via SH3C, SH3C rolls back to a STOCK game, then runs SH3, thus killing off any MODs performed by SH3C. But what you are saying is that's not what's happening? If not, then what IS it doing when it Roll's back. See my confusion? I'm being told that it does one thing, but then being told no, it's something else. Kind of reminds me of that old Abbot and Costello routine, "Who's on First?" ;)
It's all about the order of things. When you press the "Launch SH3!" button, the following steps are performed, in order:

1. Rollback. This removes all SH3Cmdr files and changes *previously* copied into SH3 so that SH3Cmdr will again have a clean slate to work with. See below for why this is so important. Now if you have already rolled back SH3Cmdr either by selecting "yes" at the reminder prompt the last time you exited SH3 or subsequently pressing the Rollback button, this step will obviously not be performed.
2. Read SH3 Commander settings
3. Calculate next patrol start date
4. Copy Flotilla files into SH3
5. Copy U-boat files into SH3
6. Copy date based files into SH3
7. Apply selected SH3 options
8. Apply randomised settings
9. Apply static settings
10. Run SH3Weather (if it exists)
11. Load SH3

Notice that the Rollback is done *first*, ie *before* the latest changes are made. If SH3Cmdr did not perform the rollback, here's a perfect example of what could happen...

You last played career "John Smith". The career is in 10 Flotilla and date is 14 July 1944. You now want to run career "Mark Brown" which is in 7 Flotilla and date is 1 January 1940. If SH3Cmdr did not rollback the files and settings it copied in when you ran the John Smith career, a number would still be there when you run the Mark Brown career, as SH3Cmdr does not necessarily change the same files every time, and even where it does change the same files, it may not do so in the same way. Thus you'd have residual 1944 and 10 Flotilla files and settings with your 1940 and 7 Flotilla career. Continue with this approach patrol after patrol, career after career and you can see the potential for conflicts.

I hope this clarifies it for you as I don't think I can explain it any simpler.

[Swany6mm]

Nope. I understand exactly what's happening now ;) The flow chart explination did the trick, and it all makes sense. For what ever reason (call it senility if you want), I just wasn't adding in/seeing that step where SH3C re-copies the files again ;) I was thinking that it did the roll back, then ran SH3, not roll back, copy current files, etc, then run SH3. In my minds eye it was more like

Fireup SH3C executable
Copy needed SH3C files
Press the Launch key
Roll Back to stock game
run SH3

Going back, I see where that's what you were saying (hind-sight is 20-20).

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to an old fuddy-duddy ;) It's really appreciated :)

[Sinking Fast]

Ok,

I decided to try Commander 2.7. Now two questions.

First I checked malfuntions+Sabotage. Next patrol I got extremely limited battery life and was unable to find anyway to fix it. Is this a normal malfuntion or sabotage?

Second when I click on my Type all it allows me to do is remove my deck gun. I thought I read somewhere I could change my type of sub.

Sinking Fast

[Sinking Fast]

It also appears that I didn't get my renown credited for my last patrol.

Sinking Fast

[bigboywooly]

You can change your sub providing the flotilla you are in uses other subs and they are available
You didnt say what year and flotilla

Yes the batterys could be the sabotage\malfunction
Will only reset on the next patrol

As for renown
Did you get the shes going down message ?
If you sail too far away or save ( on loading from that point ) before that message then you wont get renown

[fredbass]

Second when I click on my Type all it allows me to do is remove my deck gun. I thought I read somewhere I could change my type of sub.

You only have the option to select what kind of sub you want when you set up a new career, depending on what year/month and flotilla you want.

Once you've created a career, you can only change subs in that career by upgrading in the game when you have enough renown.

Edit: ahh, BBW, you slipped that it on me b4 I sent this one. :)