GWX and warships

[AVGWarhawk]

OK, there are a few threads out there concerning the warships(GWX version) and how good they are. Lets take a look at the reality of it.

1. After you are detected evasion is not always going to work, no matter what you do. That was the reality of the u-boat.

2. Even if you are attempting to evade for hours on end and are successful, congrats to you, if you take hours/day and still not evade and surface, welcome to reality because that was the reality of the u-boat.

3. Detection was done by ASDIC, sonar. Just because you do not hear a ping off your hull does not mean they do not hear you on the sonar. That was the reality of the u-boat.

4. If you go dead silent/all stop in the water and the destroyers stay above listening, this is what they did! That was the reality of the u-boat.

5. The u-boat captains knew when to cut and run because the warships were thick. That was the reality of the u-boat. Going in like a Banshi with 4 destroyers hanging and no plan of attack/escape is death....just another reality.

Men, what I'm trying to get across here is the arcade style warships are now gone and we all just might have to start thinking like captains. The days of blasting around and sneaking way after an attack in less than 15 minutes are gone. Welcome to the day in GWX that you will have to stay down until batteries are dead and the air is thick! The day you surface to surrender! Sure, you have worked on your crew for 15 patrols but there will be that one day when your not returning to port with the boys. Just another reality of the u-boat. Just a new great reality of GWX:up:

[danlisa]

Yes Sir:rock: Very Well Put.

This is exactly the effect the GWX Devs were after.

Remember - You are a U-Boat Captain.

[K_Sea6]

Men, what I'm trying to get across here is the arcade style warships are now gone and we all just might have to start thinking like captains.

Thats what I'm talkin about :rock:

[mr chris]

Totaly on the money AVG:up:
GWX is a real as it gets:yep:

[_Seth_]

AVG, this one went right into the ammo bunker! Bullseye! :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm waiting for the day that the warships keep me down so long I will be forced to surface under the gun:rock:. That was the reality of it! If I can escape then Hooray for me! I fight for another day!

[danlisa]

I'm waiting for the day that the warships keep me down so long I will be forced to surface under the gun:rock:. That was the reality of it! If I can escape then Hooray for me! I fight for another day!

It will come:cool:

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm waiting for the day that the warships keep me down so long I will be forced to surface under the gun:rock:. That was the reality of it! If I can escape then Hooray for me! I fight for another day!
It will come:cool:
I'll be scuttling my boat sir....set the charges! England here we come!

The last thing I heard as the British boarded my boat, "BOOT HOCH HALTEN SONST WIRD KEINER GERETT!"...Keep the boat afloat or no one will be rescued...my war was over....

[Hakahura]

Right on AVGWarhawk

OK, there are a few threads out there concerning the warships(GWX version) and how good they are. Lets take a look at the reality of it.

1. After you are detected evasion is not always going to work, no matter what you do. That was the reality of the u-boat.

2. Even if you are attempting to evade for hours on end and are successful, congrats to you, if you take hours/day and still not evade and surface, welcome to reality because that was the reality of the u-boat.

3. Detection was done by ASDIC, sonar. Just because you do not hear a ping off your hull does not mean they do not hear you on the sonar. That was the reality of the u-boat.

4. If you go dead silent/all stop in the water and the destroyers stay above listening, this is what they did! That was the reality of the u-boat.

5. The u-boat captains knew when to cut and run because the warships were thick. That was the reality of the u-boat. Going in like a Banshi with 4 destroyers hanging and no plan of attack/escape is death....just another reality.

Men, what I'm trying to get across here is the arcade style warships are now gone and we all just might have to start thinking like captains. The days of blasting around and sneaking way after an attack in less than 15 minutes are gone. Welcome to the day in GWX that you will have to stay down until batteries are dead and the air is thick! The day you surface to surrender! Sure, you have worked on your crew for 15 patrols but there will be that one day when your not returning to port with the boys. Just another reality of the u-boat. Just a new great reality of GWX:up:



I totally agree.

I've read quite a few posts since GWX has been released and it strikes me that there are some people out there who seem to a have missed the point. For me GWX is bang on.

Anyone who has a problem with GWX should read and inwardly digest AVGWarharks post.

Or just not use GWX!

I find it quite surprising how many people are prepared to ungratfully criticise the efforts of the GWX team, who have generously provided what amounts to a new game for free. Use it or don't use it, but don't complain if you can't handle it.


"If I throw a dog a bone I don't want to know what it tastes like"...

...Bricktop

[mr chris]

Hakahura
Love your sig mate the brick top line is great:up:

[Hakahura]

"Beware any man that owns a pig farm"...

... Bricktop
(again)

[mr chris]

"Beware any man that owns a pig farm"...

... Bricktop
(again)

That is a really funny flim snatch. I like your style mate:up:

[Jimbuna]

I'm waiting for the day that the warships keep me down so long I will be forced to surface under the gun:rock:. That was the reality of it! If I can escape then Hooray for me! I fight for another day!

It will come:cool:

most probably in mid 43 :yep: :lol: :up:

[aboyce]

I did have a recent experience that seems out of sync with the current thoughts on aggressive warship AI. I was off the coast of n africa in 1942 (Jan), ran into a task force of 3 cruisers with 3 dd escorts. I crept up at 1 kt at periscope depth and managed to put 3/4 torps into a fiji which promptly sank. I went silent and deep, albeit very slowly moving at 2 kts. I don't even think the dd's altered course to find me. no pings, depth charges or any sign of hostility. the weather was clear but windy (15knts) with significant waves which made staying stealthy even trickier. Just seemed a bit odd....

[AVGWarhawk]

I did have a recent experience that seems out of sync with the current thoughts on aggressive warship AI. I was off the coast of n africa in 1942 (Jan), ran into a task force of 3 cruisers with 3 dd escorts. I crept up at 1 kt at periscope depth and managed to put 3/4 torps into a fiji which promptly sank. I went silent and deep, albeit very slowly moving at 2 kts. I don't even think the dd's altered course to find me. no pings, depth charges or any sign of hostility. the weather was clear but windy (15knts) with significant waves which made staying stealthy even trickier. Just seemed a bit odd....

I know of this task force and experienced the same but that was also in GW1.1 and maybe not part of the mod as far as reaction of the AI. Although I missed with all my torpedos (they were compress air torpedos) making tracks. The kept rolling at 20 some knots. Did a zig or two and gone into the mist. It's like they have to be somewhere and fast.

Anyway, there were two types of convoys, slow and fast. Usually the fast did not have as many escort because they could simply out run the uboat. I believe this to be true of the task forces! If your lucky you get one shot at it. If you miss...your not catching up to try again. So with that said, the task forces would keep on steaming at high speed, no need to hang out and look for and protect some lumbering merchant vessels:know:

[joea]

Well said, AVG, I have been playing through the single player missions and made similar observations. I played the Matla mission twice, first time my conning tower breached the surface (cause I was not sued to the more realistic u-boat physics) and got toasted, second I was careful quiet and let the Nelson and escorts past (and they were busy with the air attacks) sank one merchant in the convoy and crept away.

I got toasted in the U-505 mission cause I got overconfident after putting one torp into the Guadacanal (which didn't sink). I let loose a decoy and snuck away but went to ahead slow and went ahead when I "thought" it was ok to start reloading torpedos. Oops. :oops:

Love the new damage model for u-boats and ships, that progressive flooding was a killer as were those headhogs. Love the real DCs too.

Narvik, got detected in shallow water, NOT GOOD. Should preset my shoot and put the periscope up very briefly.

BTW, Operation Cerebus was also fun, great battle, and the low vis and the fact the DDs were a bit distracted worked to my favour, they started looking for me when I hit one of them....searchlights and all...but the many KM DDs and the 11" guns of the Scarnhorst and Gniesenau and 8" of the Prinz Eugen kind of distracted them shall we say? :smug: Blew them right out of the water so I surfaced and saluted our great fleet, recalled our mighty lost Bismarck. :cry:

Anyway, I love the new AI, I feel as if there are folks on those boats and planes (oh those planes) really trying to do me in as hard as I am, and not always suceeding. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Joea,:up: A bit of a challenge now!:up: Much more satisfying when your plan your work and work your plan...then you get away with the results you were looking for:rock:

[joea]

Hey AVG, I got away last night, again another single mission. The old stock (now improved) Gibraltar mission when you are supposed to try to sneak into the Med.

Well I was ok, nervous about air attack, limited to 128x for that, but in fact spotted a DD at dusk (4 stacker) who was heading straight for me (mission takes place in December 41) I had heard the Tommies have a new detection system for their ships on the surface. ;) Well I dove went to 120M and went silent...and in the meantime he called his friends...about 5 in total. I got away. Simply following the advice given in the manual, never more than 2 knots unless depth chareges went off when I went to flank for 30 to 45 seconds....went to 180M too. Changing course. I realised that in fact the DDs didn't know exactly where I was as I changed course when I dove, befreo I was in he saw me visually! I think they were dropping too shallow as well. I saw a hole to the SW so crept away and as they lost contact 2 hours later (game time) I got away.

"Thinking" like a u-boat commander I decided the heck with it, not risking my boat and crew. Maybe I would try again the next day but was heading west when I saw a 2 ship convoy of a tramp and small merchant. Fired 4 trops and hit the small merchant which did not sink (love the new damage model and did the GWX team make the WO more human and less uber? Cool if they did)...as the tramp had a small deck gun I dove then got away to surface again (now midnight) when I ran into a large merchant and sank it with two torpedos again he took a while. I went to bed at 3:30 AM.


WOOHOOO!!!!


Only glitch, I get a message "windows is running low on virtual memory and is increasing the size of the page file" (I have 768 Megs of RAM) I know I know, but GWX actually runs ok, (didn't activate 16 KM obviously).

LOVE IT!!!!

[AVGWarhawk]

Hey AVG, I got away last night, again another single mission. The old stock (now improved) Gibraltar mission when you are supposed to try to sneak into the Med.

Well I was ok, nervous about air attack, limited to 128x for that, but in fact spotted a DD at dusk (4 stacker) who was heading straight for me (mission takes place in December 41) I had heard the Tommies have a new detection system for their ships on the surface. ;) Well I dove went to 120M and went silent...and in the meantime he called his friends...about 5 in total. I got away. Simply following the advice given in the manual, never more than 2 knots unless depth chareges went off when I went to flank for 30 to 45 seconds....went to 180M too. Changing course. I realised that in fact the DDs didn't know exactly where I was as I changed course when I dove, befreo I was in he saw me visually! I think they were dropping too shallow as well. I saw a hole to the SW so crept away and as they lost contact 2 hours later (game time) I got away.

"Thinking" like a u-boat commander I decided the heck with it, not risking my boat and crew. Maybe I would try again the next day but was heading west when I saw a 2 ship convoy of a tramp and small merchant. Fired 4 trops and hit the small merchant which did not sink (love the new damage model and did the GWX team make the WO more human and less uber? Cool if they did)...as the tramp had a small deck gun I dove then got away to surface again (now midnight) when I ran into a large merchant and sank it with two torpedos again he took a while. I went to bed at 3:30 AM.


WOOHOOO!!!!


Only glitch, I get a message "windows is running low on virtual memory and is increasing the size of the page file" (I have 768 Megs of RAM) I know I know, but GWX actually runs ok, (didn't activate 16 KM obviously).

LOVE IT!!!!

Awesome man! Read the manual? Like they say if all else fails read the instructions:shifty: . So all, as you can see it can be done but it will not be easy!

I think the WO is more human. my WO does not have the once eagle eye see all ability! I find myself using the hydrophones more often now. Very cool.

About you memory....check to see if you have windows handling your virtual memory. I set my memory to some value recommended by others. I got the message that memory is low. I switched virtural memory back to windows controlled and all was good:up:

[bigboywooly]

Nice story joea
Not played that mission myself yet

[TarJak]

Loving GWX, but still not impressed with the audio skills of omiscient DD's being able to hear me when I'm in the middle of a convoy going at 8-9kts when I do a very quick spurt at ahead one third to get into position for a shot.:damn:

I quckly adjusted my tactics and now never move at more than 1-2kts when lining up shots even when under a convoy of noisy buggers. It means I miss out on a lot more firing opportunities but I don't get detected as much anymore. I do not think however that this is as realistic as I have read many accounts of Kaleuns using the noise of the convoys to get into position for firing as well as escaping detection after an attack.

This is so far the only fault I've found. In GW1.1a, I was able to do what I consider a realistic manouver in amongst heavy noise traffic that I now cannot do. In all other respects GWX from my so far limited experience is far superior to the old version. It doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the game it just surprised me a little and made me wonder if there were any other nasty surprises waiting for me.

No doubt there are!:hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Loving GWX, but still not impressed with the audio skills of omiscient DD's being able to hear me when I'm in the middle of a convoy going at 8-9kts when I do a very quick spurt at ahead one third to get into position for a shot.:damn:

I quckly adjusted my tactics and now never move at more than 1-2kts when lining up shots even when under a convoy of noisy buggers. It means I miss out on a lot more firing opportunities but I don't get detected as much anymore. I do not think however that this is as realistic as I have read many accounts of Kaleuns using the noise of the convoys to get into position for firing as well as escaping detection after an attack.

This is so far the only fault I've found. In GW1.1a, I was able to do what I consider a realistic manouver in amongst heavy noise traffic that I now cannot do. In all other respects GWX from my so far limited experience is far superior to the old version. It doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the game it just surprised me a little and made me wonder if there were any other nasty surprises waiting for me.

No doubt there are!:hmm:

Currently I'm on a day light convoy attack. I got to within 2000 meters of the convoy. I was able to pass the frigate that was leading. I sent out four torpedos and sunk one small tramp. I went silent and deep, 2 kts. Obviously they know I'm there. I have two after me and they pick me up and lose me. I do this by changing heading every so often. I have exited the rear of the convoy. Currently the warships are dropping DC indescriminatly and about 2000m from me. I have successfully eluded them. They did keep me down, no doubt there. I believe they are ready to head back to the convoy at high speed. One is already moving that way. Current plan is to plot the heading, wait for nightfall and make a fast run surface attack from the rear. TIME TO SHADOW LIKE THE UBOAT DID! I think night time is the best time to attack. In all reality a single uboat is only going to get 2-3 vessels sunk on a convoy attack, especially in day light. So if I get that many and escape..I'll be a happy camper. I sure has hell will be doing end round for more action!

I forgot to mention my approach to the attack really sucked to be quite honest. I probably could have done better if I had just shadowed until night fall. Live and learn.

[TarJak]

I forgot to mention my approach to the attack really sucked to be quite honest. I probably could have done better if I had just shadowed until night fall. Live and learn.

I'm not saying what happens is not impossible, just unrealistic that 100% of the time if you are anywhere near a DD, and you make a noise, they detect you! Even though you are in amongst a convoy full of ships making noise that would in RL mask noise you might make. What I'm attempting to do is emulate attacks made from inside the convoy itself.

I've tried around 7 or 8 convoy attackes in both night and daylight, making saves just prior to using a bit more speed to manouver into firing posistion. Mostly very good approaches; deep and silent from ahead of the coinvoy. No sign of the escorts hearing or spotting me. I get into the convoy itself, gradually coming up to periscope depth, between the columns where the noise of the ships SHOULD mask my screw noises.

100% of the time, if I flick from silent to 1/3rd speed to move into position to fire, I get detected. I don't feel tht this is realistic because of the many accounts I have read about ubaots attacking from within the convoy without detection.

I don't have a problem with them being tougher than in stock or in other mods. My problem is when that becomes unrealistic. So as I said I've simply adjusted my tactics and now make sure that I don't come out of silent routine until after I've fired and am attempting to escape.

[AVGWarhawk]

I forgot to mention my approach to the attack really sucked to be quite honest. I probably could have done better if I had just shadowed until night fall. Live and learn.

I'm not saying what happens is not impossible, just unrealistic that 100% of the time if you are anywhere near a DD, and you make a noise, they detect you! Even though you are in amongst a convoy full of ships making noise that would in RL mask noise you might make. What I'm attempting to do is emulate attacks made from inside the convoy itself.

I've tried around 7 or 8 convoy attackes in both night and daylight, making saves just prior to using a bit more speed to manouver into firing posistion. Mostly very good approaches; deep and silent from ahead of the coinvoy. No sign of the escorts hearing or spotting me. I get into the convoy itself, gradually coming up to periscope depth, between the columns where the noise of the ships SHOULD mask my screw noises.

100% of the time, if I flick from silent to 1/3rd speed to move into position to fire, I get detected. I don't feel tht this is realistic because of the many accounts I have read about ubaots attacking from within the convoy without detection.

I don't have a problem with them being tougher than in stock or in other mods. My problem is when that becomes unrealistic. So as I said I've simply adjusted my tactics and now make sure that I don't come out of silent routine until after I've fired and am attempting to escape.

Oh, I agree with you. Sometimes the uboats sat in the middle of the convoy doing anything it wanted with impunity. I plan on working this latest convoy during the day(I did that already and sunk one, evaded). I'm going to do an end round for a night time surface attack. I'll see the outcome of that. While playing GW 1.1 the escort were sometimes very good detecting at night.

I just want to mention though and I'm sure you know, once you light up a merchant, everyone is looking for you! But detection before you press the firing button amongst the merchants is something all together different. I'm not a programing expert but I would suspect the game cannot be coded for different reaction to a give situation. This might be something we have to live with. I really don't know! Off for a night attack. Let see what happens.