Big Gun Subs

[Letum]

From The London Treaty:

Each of the High Contracting Parties may, however, retain, build or acquire a maximum number of three submarines of a standard displacement not exceeding 2,800 tons (2,845 metric tons); these submarines may carry guns not above 6.1 inch (155 mm) calibre. Within this number, France may retain one unit, already launched, of 2,880 tons (2,926 metric tons), with guns the calibre of which is 8 inches (203 mm).
So France had a U-Boat with 8 Inch guns shortly after WW1 ?
Blimey!

Did big Gun Subs ever work in WWI or in the inter-war years? Are there any impressive examples?
The Germans had planns for a Type XI in 1937. The boat had 4 X 12.7cm Guns but was never built. Or was it....? http://www.uboatwar.net/XI.htm
(highly unlikely!)


Here is a artists impression of the Type IX:
http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/154277/154277_1122152994.jpg

[hyperion2206]

Yes, the French had such a U-boat: The Surcouf.

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.subart.net/surcouf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.subart.net/surcouf.htm&h=450&w=613&sz=57&hl=de&start=1&tbnid=PvPmyreaJC5IjM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSurcouf%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3 D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:de:official%26sa%3DN

[Patboot]

http://members.cox.net/pkent20/asif/shiii/badnews.jpg

[peterloo]

They are called "U-cruisners" (if I didn't make it wrong)

However, that boat won't do any good job because

(a) Slow speed (just like battleship), unlikely to evade plane attacks

(b) High consumption of diesel

(c) Weak armour (with pressure hull damaged, you can do nothing!) when compared to warships

(d) Not enough fire-power, 2 huge naval guns can never defeat a destroyer easily, since DD gets more guns than you (ABSOLTELY)

(e) Stealth is gone when you are attacking on surface, since what the the most precious for a U-boat is its stealth

[LeafsFan]

Exactly,

The cruiser submarine was just a bad idea in its entirety.

HB

[Letum]

The Surcouf is impressive!
If it sank in 1942 did it see any action in WW2?

[MRV]

Well, I dont think such a thing had much tactical value but it sure would scare the hell off merchant crew if it had surfaced next to them.

[hyperion2206]

The Surcouf is impressive!
If it sank in 1942 did it see any action in WW2?


I'm not sure but I think I read that she was protecting convoys. But perhaps I just dreamed that.:hmm::rotfl:

[Letum]

Wiki is full of french conspiricy theorys about that french sub :hmm:

[bigboywooly]

Sure are

Best I found so far

World War II

In 1940 (http://www.answers.com/topic/1940), Surcouf was based in Cherbourg (http://www.answers.com/topic/cherbourg-octeville), but in June, when the Germans invaded, she was being refitted in Brest (http://www.answers.com/topic/brest-france). With only one engine functioning and with a jammed rudder, she limped across the English Channel (http://www.answers.com/topic/english-channel) and sought refuge in Portsmouth (http://www.answers.com/topic/portsmouth). On 3 July (http://www.answers.com/topic/july-3), the British, concerned that the French Fleet would be taken over by the German Kriegsmarine (http://www.answers.com/topic/kriegsmarine) when the French surrendered, executed Operation Catapult (http://www.answers.com/topic/destruction-of-the-french-fleet-at-mers-el-k-bir). The Royal Navy (http://www.answers.com/topic/royal-navy) blockaded the harbours where French warships were anchored and delivered an ultimatum: re-join the fight against Germany, be put out of reach of the Germans or scuttle the ships. Most accepted willingly, with two notable exceptions: the North African fleet at Mers-el-Kebir (http://www.answers.com/topic/mers-el-kebir) and the ships based at Dakar (http://www.answers.com/topic/dakar). These condemned the British "treachery" and suffered hundreds of casualties when the British opened fire (http://www.answers.com/topic/destruction-of-the-french-fleet-at-mers-el-k-bir). Surcouf also resisted and in capturing the submarine, two British officers and one French sailor were killed. The acrimony between the British and French caused by these actions escalated when the British attempted to repatriate the captured French sailors: the British hospital ship that was carrying them back to France was sunk by the Germans, and many of the French blamed the British for the deaths.

Free French Naval Forces

By August 1940 (http://www.answers.com/topic/1940), the British completed Surcouf's refit and turned her over to the Free French Navy (http://www.answers.com/topic/free-french-forces) (Forces Navales Françaises Libres, FNFL) for convoy patrol. The only officer not repatriated from the original crew, Louis Blaison, became the new commander. Because of the British-French tensions with regard to the submarine, accusations were made by each side that the other was spying for Vichy France (http://www.answers.com/topic/vichy-france); the British also claimed that Surcouf was attacking British ships. Later, a British officer and two sailors were put on board for "liaison" purposes.
In December 1941 (http://www.answers.com/topic/1941), Surcouf carried the Free French Admiral Émile Muselier (http://www.answers.com/topic/mile-muselier) to Canada (http://www.answers.com/topic/canada), putting in to Quebec City (http://www.answers.com/topic/quebec-city). While the Admiral was in Ottawa (http://www.answers.com/topic/ottawa-1), conferring with the Canadian government, Surcouf's captain was approached by New York Times (http://www.answers.com/topic/the-new-york-times) reporter Ira Wolfert and questioned about the rumors that the submarine would liberate Saint-Pierre and Miquelon (http://www.answers.com/topic/saint-pierre-and-miquelon) (a French archipelago some 30 kilometres south of Newfoundland (http://www.answers.com/topic/newfoundland)) for Free France from Vichy control. It was rumored, but never confirmed, that Surcouf's captain kidnapped Wolfert, smuggled him to the submarine in the trunk of a car, and imprisoned him aboard. However, Wolfert did accompany the submarine to Halifax, Nova Scotia (http://www.answers.com/topic/halifax-regional-municipality) where, on 20 December (http://www.answers.com/topic/december-20), they joined the Free French corvettes (http://www.answers.com/topic/corvette) Mimosa, Aconit, and Alysse, and on 24 December (http://www.answers.com/topic/december-24) took control of the islands for Free France without resistance.
United States Secretary of State (http://www.answers.com/topic/united-states-secretary-of-state) Cordell Hull (http://www.answers.com/topic/cordell-hull), who had just concluded an agreement with the Vichy government for the neutrality of French possessions in the Western hemisphere, threatened to resign unless President of the United States (http://www.answers.com/topic/president-of-the-united-states-2) Franklin Roosevelt (http://www.answers.com/topic/franklin-d-roosevelt) demanded a restoration of the status quo. Roosevelt did so, but when Charles de Gaulle (http://www.answers.com/topic/charles-de-gaulle) refused, he dropped the matter. Ira Wolfert's stories, very favourable to the Free French (and bearing no sign of kidnapping or other duress), helped swing American popular opinion away from Vichy.
Another rumor associated with this event is that, on 1 January (http://www.answers.com/topic/january-1) 1942 (http://www.answers.com/topic/1942), an American destroyer (http://www.answers.com/topic/destroyer) was sent to Saint-Pierre to restore it to Vichy control and was fired upon by Surcouf, killing one or two American sailors. However, if this actually occurred, no documentation exists to corraborate it. However, it is documented, that in that same month, the Free French decided to send Surcouf to the Pacific theater of war, and she put in to Bermuda (http://www.answers.com/topic/bermuda) for resupply. Her movement south triggered rumors that she was going to liberate Martinique (http://www.answers.com/topic/martinique) for the Free French from Vichy.
On 18 February (http://www.answers.com/topic/february-18) 1942 (http://www.answers.com/topic/1942), Surcouf was lost with all hands. An official joint U.S. and Free French report stated that she left Bermuda on 12 February (http://www.answers.com/topic/february-12-1) and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the American freighter Thompson Lykes near the Panama canal (http://www.answers.com/topic/canal-zone). The report states that the accident was due to both vessels running at night with no lights because of the menace of German U-boats (http://www.answers.com/topic/u-boat). A later French investigation commission stated that the Surcouf had been sunk by US planes in the morning of the 18th in a "friendly fire (http://www.answers.com/topic/friendly-fire)" accident.