Japan Creates Ministry of Defense

[Yahoshua]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061215/ap_on_...apan_patriotism (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061215/ap_on_re_as/japan_patriotism)

I don't expect the nation of Japan to enact any pro-gun laws in the near future, but with the trend that's going on now it seems to be that Japan may actually begin expanding their firearms industry to include military quota production (and perhaps resuming export of military arms).

This is a big step out of Pacifism for the Japanese.

[waste gate]

A message for North Korea?

EDIT; China also gets it. The message that is.

[Oberon]

Well, after DPRKs sabre-rattling a few months back, it's hardly surprising that Japan is going to step up its military plans, China will of course, continue with its military build-up.
Whether this is the beginning of a Far-Eastern arms race? Perhaps...
Time will tell. But this comes as no major surprise.

[Cpt. Stewker]

This reminds me that there was talk within Japan (only talk at this point) about a possible nuclear deterrant to counter North Korea. Japan has plenty of nuclear fuel and the knowledge know how to be able to create a nuclear device within months if they wished it. I haven't heard anything about this for some time though. Not since North Korea's "nuclear fizzle" was front page news.

[Abraham]

I have no problem with a more active and self assured attitude of Japan in defense matters. WWII is too long ago, Japan is a democracy and an economic partner of the West as well as a military partner of the US.
Germany is recently playing a more active military role as well, in Afghanistan for instance.

[goldorak]

I have no problem with a more active and self assured attitude of Japan in defense matters. WWII is too long ago, Japan is a democracy and an economic partner of the West as well as a military partner of the US.
Germany is recently playing a more active military role as well, in Afghanistan for instance.


I'm more perplexed about this.
It is true that ww II was over 50 years ago, but the Japanese (as a society) has always had a negationist view towards their responsability in ww II.
German society on the other hand, has accepted their responsabilities in the last war. That is a big big difference.
I could care less that japan is a military partner of the us, letting japan build an effective armed service, including a nuclear arsenal is the wrong thing to do.

[Fish]

I have no problem with a more active and self assured attitude of Japan in defense matters. WWII is too long ago, Japan is a democracy and an economic partner of the West as well as a military partner of the US.
Germany is recently playing a more active military role as well, in Afghanistan for instance.


I'm more perplexed about this.
It is true that ww II was over 50 years ago, but the Japanese (as a society) has always had a negationist view towards their responsability in ww II.
German society on the other hand, has accepted their responsabilities in the last war. That is a big big difference.
I could care less that japan is a military partner of the us, letting japan build an effective armed service, including a nuclear arsenal is the wrong thing to do.

I am with you. They still deny some parts of there history.

[Camaero]

The Japs are our strongest eastern ally. They face two major enemys - N. Korea and China. The US also faces these countries. I don't mind at all if they are building up. They are way too democratic to go backwards now.

[goldorak]

The Japs are our strongest eastern ally. They face two major enemys - N. Korea and China. The US also faces these countries. I don't mind at all if they are building up. They are way too democratic to go backwards now.


Says who ?
Democracy is not a god given right.
It can go away as easily as it came.

[The Avon Lady]

The Japs are our strongest eastern ally. They face two major enemys - N. Korea and China. The US also faces these countries. I don't mind at all if they are building up. They are way too democratic to go backwards now.
Says who ?
Democracy is not a god given right.
It can go away as easily as it came.
Noticing that you come from Italy and that we're talking about the former Axis countries of WWII, would you apply that to your country? :hmm:

I wouldn't, although Italy has tinkered with fascism every now and then.

While the Japanese supress the hsitory of their own wickedness which they perpetrated during WWII, this appears to be done in order to avoid a national shame. I think that's a shame and a disgrace in itself but I don't see this as a sign or a concern of their reverting back to the days of an emporer with his empire.

[Camaero]

The Japs are our strongest eastern ally. They face two major enemys - N. Korea and China. The US also faces these countries. I don't mind at all if they are building up. They are way too democratic to go backwards now.


Says who ?
Democracy is not a god given right.
It can go away as easily as it came.


Sure it is possible, but when you have people completely spoiled by democracy, it would be pretty hard to go back to any sort of ruthless dictator or imperialistic ways. The youth would fight it. The internet has also helped this. The youth of MANY nations can now interact with the rest of the world. It is easy to hate other countries when that is all you have been taught in schools and you have no outside influence. Now, people can find the truth and learn that "the other side" is not a bunch of baby eating barbarians.

[goldorak]

Noticing that you come from Italy and that we're talking about the former Axis countries of WWII, would you apply that to your country? :hmm:


It applies to every "democratic" country.
Japan has 2000 + years of history, and only 50 years of democratic government.
And I was answering to this quote : "They are way too democratic to go backwards now".
Japan has been a democracy for only 50 years, it represents nothing in respect to their whole history.
And to be honest, democracy was forced on japan, so it is not so radicated within their political culture.


I wouldn't, although Italy has tinkered with fascism every now and then.


No, since the end of ww 2 Italy has been a democratic republic.



While the Japanese supress the hsitory of their own wickedness which they perpetrated during WWII, this appears to be done in order to avoid a national shame. I think that's a shame and a disgrace in itself but I don't see this as a sign or a concern of their reverting back to the days of an emporer with his empire.

Maybe japan will not revert to the old ways, but they sure as hell have a nationalistic and expansionist view that if given free reign could bring more harm to the region than north corea, cina, russia and india put together.

[Cpt. Stewker]

Noticing that you come from Italy and that we're talking about the former Axis countries of WWII, would you apply that to your country? :hmm:

It applies to every "democratic" country.
Japan has 2000 + years of history, and only 50 years of democratic government.
And I was answering to this quote : "They are way too democratic to go backwards now".
Japan has been a democracy for only 50 years, it represents nothing in respect to their whole history.
And to be honest, democracy was forced on japan, so it is not so radicated within their political culture.


I wouldn't, although Italy has tinkered with fascism every now and then.

No, since the end of ww 2 Italy has been a democratic republic.



While the Japanese supress the hsitory of their own wickedness which they perpetrated during WWII, this appears to be done in order to avoid a national shame. I think that's a shame and a disgrace in itself but I don't see this as a sign or a concern of their reverting back to the days of an emporer with his empire.
Maybe japan will not revert to the old ways, but they sure as hell have a nationalistic and expansionist view that if given free reign could bring more harm to the region than north corea, cina, russia and india put together.
LOL, you're a funny man. Any country could bring more harm to that region, any country could bring more harm to any region of the world for that matter. To single out Japan is silly. Japan's history does not make it any more potentially dangerous than any other country within the region or the world today. The fact that the parents and grandparents of modern day Japan were imperialists and expansionists does not mean that the Japan of today is in any way more likely to revert back to the old ways (In the words of Saladin from Kingdom of Heaven, "I am not that man". If you want to go that route, that's like saying that the Germany and Italy of today are just as likely to revert back to fascism and start another war in Europe. Or that France or Britian would return to being imperialists and decide to take back their many former colonies in Africa and Southeat Asia and the world.

Conclusion: Japan is no more of a threat than any other country in the world, history does not dictate your future. Your future is made in the present and what you do at this very moment.

EDIT: I don't think I got across whay I was trying to say.

[U-533]

Well dont rely on America to much.
We are letting our so called "Supreme Court Judges"(AAAACKK!!!) take away our Democarcy one slice at a time.(Its called a Salami Government)

I mean come on all other countries who want America to fall is wait a while longer and we will let it go for free. Maybe in the next 20 to 25 years. Cause us old farts are dieing off and the new generation of kids dont care about any thing unless its a video game, or got attitude or sick or ......................................

aaaaahh...never mind

[Iceman]

Conclusion: Japan is no more of a threat than any other country in the world, history does not dictate your future. Your future is made in the present and what you do at this very moment.

EDIT: I don't think I got across whay I was trying to say.

You made your point perfectly....We all will reap what we sow.

[CCIP]

Japan has 2000 + years of history, and only 50 years of democratic government.
That's silly. How many countries have had democratic governments for longer than that? I think you've got a slightly skewed view of history.

In all actuality, probably 95% of the world's democracies have less 'experience' than that, including a vast majority of European countries.

***

I'm willing to pull the racist card on this side of the argument, myself. Japan has proven beyond all doubt a democratic success; at least two generations have now been raised in a democratic environment, and only a very small minority complains.

In the 2000 years of Japanese history, they likewise only spent just over 50 being an Empire, the rest of it largely being an isolationist - if highly xenophobic - island hideaway.

What, a democracy is not allowed to have a military? Who says? America?!

Either it's blatant racism, or suddenly the people I've seen showing such faith in democracy as the rightest and most sustainable form of government have just done a sudden and inexplicable about-face. :hmm:

[tycho102]

Some of their CEO's still have that conquerer mentality, but most of the people are pretty decent. It would take a couple of generations to swing their population around to the old feudal system. However, I don't care for them to be rewriting their history books.

I got the "clean" version of our history up until high school, but it might also be that I was a little more inquisitive than average.

[geetrue]

This reminds me that there was talk within Japan (only talk at this point) about a possible nuclear deterrant to counter North Korea. Japan has plenty of nuclear fuel and the knowledge know how to be able to create a nuclear device within months if they wished it. I haven't heard anything about this for some time though. Not since North Korea's "nuclear fizzle" was front page news.

I think they have already developed the atomic bomb ... It's Japan's biggest secret of course ... If you stop and think about it being used for defense only ... Why tell anybody? It would just upset the people of Japan, not it's very intelligent Army/Navy:D

[Der Eisen-Wal]

as far as i know japan still hasn't gotten those resources and land that it desperately fought for in WW2, i'm sure that's still on teh agenda. While I don't see them going full out on China again, why tempt them?

ps, revisionist history is :down:, at least the germans owned up to it and made laws against it... the Japanese are still printing some textbooks that distance themselves from their WW2 atrocities in the South-East Asian Sphere of Co-Prosperity... and the worst part is their kids are reading it.

[P_Funk]

This thing in Japan of altering the curriculum to make children more nationalistic is a huge backwards step in the growth of democracy. The one that is most important in maintaining the justice of a democratic society is the awareness of its people. Being aware of what is being done by government and how it will affect you and the greater good is what makes democracy possible. This is why the press is so importantly enshrined by any and all real democratic constitutions.

But even more important than the availability of information is the ability to analyse it critically. This skill is called critical thinking and it is very much a skill and one which must be taught. No school should teach a child to love a flag or an emperor or a nation without thought. This is indoctrination at a basic level. Rather than teaching young children that their homeland is some great perfect place they should be taught how to think and analyse what is going on in an intelligent and impartial way so as to best be able to know what is good for their nation.

As is oft perverted by these blind nationalists, patriotism isn't blind faith in a leader or a government, but is a love for ones country. And a true patriot is one who does what is best for his nation, not one who applauds it even when it is wrong.

Japan seems to be so concerned with the shame of its past that it is ironically laying the foundation for a situation in which it might be somehow in some way replicated.

As is so often misquoted and not even properly attributed -
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

[The Avon Lady]

Japan seems to be so concerned with the shame of its past that it is ironically laying the foundation for a situation in which it might be somehow in some way replicated.
I disagree. While they might not be admitting to guilt, that's because they find the deeds we all they comitted disgracesful and horrific. It's the last thing they would want to revert to.

I see nothing wrong or excessive with nationalism in Japan today. There are far more dangerous nationilists in Germany. So, too, in other western countries. I see no reason to pick on Japan at present nor do I see any trend leading them to their WWII past.
As is so often misquoted and not even properly attributed -
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
That's "Santayana" - no "n" before the "y". :smug: