*** Breaking News ***

[Fish]

http://www.halturnershow.com/ChinaToDumpUSDollars.html

CHINA TO DUMP ONE TRILLION IN U.S. RESERVES!!!!

Tells visiting Bush administration officials they will not sit back and lose their shirts as U.S. Dollar collapses; they are getting out fast and large!!!!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/14/AR2006121400681.html


U.S., China Clash on Currency

Both Countries Assertive as Economic Talks Open in Beijing


By Ariana Eunjung Cha (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/ariana+eunjung+cha/)
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, December 15, 2006; Page D01

BEIJING, Dec. 14 -- U.S. and Chinese leaders clashed publicly on the opening day of strategic economic talks, with Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. pushing China to revalue its currency and Chinese Vice Premier Wu Yi saying Americans do not have a full understanding of the situation.
After standing by as U.S. officials criticized her country's economic policies in the media during the past week, Wu set the tone for the meeting with assertive introductory remarks that spanned 20 typed pages and 5,000 years of Chinese history.

[geetrue]

Okay, that's the last time I buy a plastic tricycle, plastic ciagarette lighter or silk tie from China ... We really can't do anything about it ... I owe, I owe, it's off to work we go ... :D

[Oberon]

A good opportunity to twist the arm of Uncle Sam says the Middle East:

"Arabs and OPEC will want something in return for saving the U.S. from economic collapse and it is already widely speculated what they want will be a complete change in U.S. backing of Israel in the Middle East.

If such demands are made by the oil-rich Arabs, the U.S. would be left with little choice but to virtually abandon the jewish state to preserve itself."

:down: Not great news...but also not surprising...China has had this sword hanging over the US for some time...let's see what the admin can do to prevent problems before we start wheeling out barrows of dollars to buy a loaf of bread.

[waste gate]

If the US goes back to the gold standard China and the EU loose their shirts.

EDIT: The reserves in tonnes.

United States8,133.52
Germany3,427.83
International Monetary Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund)3,217.34
France2,892.65
Italy2,451.86
Switzerland1,290.17J
Japan765.28
Netherlands722.49
European Central Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank)719.910
China, Mainland600.011
Spain493.312
Taiwan423.313
Portugal407.514
Russia386.615
India357.716
Venezuela357.417
United Kingdom311.318
Austria307.519
Lebanon286.820
Belgium227.721
Philippines187.922
Bank for International Settlements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements)185.323
Algeria173.624
Sweden155.425
Libya143.826
Saudi Arabia143.027
Singapore127.428
South Africa123.929
Turkey116.130
Greece107.931
Romania104.932
Poland102.933
Indonesia96.534
Thailand84.035
Australia79.736
Kuwait79.037
Egypt75.638
Denmark66.539
Pakistan65.340
Kazakhstan58.6

[XabbaRus]

How true is this and how much of it is bluster?

[bradclark1]

If such demands are made by the oil-rich Arabs, the U.S. would be left with little choice but to virtually abandon the jewish state to preserve itself."
I seriously doubt that.

[waste gate]

I posted the gold reserves above. The US federal reserve also holds 5000 tonnes for other nations. I suspect that belongs to the US now.

[Fish]

How true is this and how much of it is bluster?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

[The Avon Lady]

How true is this and how much of it is bluster?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner
All bluster - and this is your idea of breaking news?

[geetrue]

If the US goes back to the gold standard China and the EU loose their shirts.


EDIT: The reserves in tonnes.

United States8,133.52


If we went back to the gold standard ... Would the price of Gold go up or down?

[The Avon Lady]

If the US goes back to the gold standard China and the EU loose their shirts.


EDIT: The reserves in tonnes.

United States8,133.52


If we went back to the gold standard ... Would the price of Gold go up or down?
Should go up.

[TteFAboB]

Look at the advertisement I've found on the first link:
http://www.privatewebhosting.org/

How cute. After looking who this guy is the end of his article makes complete sense.

EDIT: Another cute ad found in Hal Turner's site - http://www.aryanwear.com/

LOL, check the entire website. It's a freak show:

*** BREAKING NEWS ***
BANKS "CAPPING" WITHDRAWALS AT $1,000 MAX!!
REPORTS COMING IN THAT PEOPLE ON LINE FOR AN HOUR; TOLD THEY COULD ONLY WITHDRAW ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!
Word of a possible collapse of the U.S. Dollar has apparently spread far enough and fast enough that the banking industry is reportedly LIMITING the amount a person can withdraw! More details as they become available.

Now check out the comments:

remember when the jew starting taking over the roosevelt government in 1930
baruch the jew wanted americans not to be able to get their money out of the bank and closed the bank for several days.
the jew is ready to do that again.
now they run our entire government.
they will also confiscate all pensions for Jew World order.
if your money is in stocks bonds pensions bank, you do not own that money until it is in your hands.
it is the 100 percent property of the Jew American government

Fish, keep the washington post stuff but get rid of this crap.

[Fish]

How true is this and how much of it is bluster?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner
All bluster - and this is your idea of breaking news?

He, I am just the messenger.

[Onkel Neal]

Breaking News !!!!




I scratched my foot.

The TV was on, too. Not sure if these events are related.

[XabbaRus]

Hal Turner, seem a lovely guy..NOT....

[The Avon Lady]

Breaking News !!!!




I scratched my foot.

The TV was on, too. Not sure if these events are related.
I knew it! Neal's the "BIG D" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJzIC8WW52k)! :yep:

[U-533]

:sunny:
Well after China told US to shut up or we will nuke you( BTW with MTNWM's given to them by our glourious, cigar smoking, blue silk dress staining,Prez. Clinton...oops almost forgot whorehopping:nope: ) ...when they took control over some hole in the wall country over there seems we anit got to much to worry over we will shut up and take it like a man[ with out lubrication in places where a man should not be taking it]...

After they threatened us my wife and I had a bonfire in our front yard and now there is no Chinease products that aren't needed in our home.

yes yes Im sure that some where buried deep inside my TV or Stero or Computer there are chinease parts....I think my cars are made in Mexico so no worries there...show me how to get rid of them and still provide every one with my biting saracasm and mispellings and I will put an end to my particial dependence on China products....:roll:

[The Avon Lady]

I think my cars are made in Mexico so no worries there
Your car's made in Mexico and you're not worried?!

Ay caramba! :o

[U-533]

I think my cars are made in Mexico so no worries there
Your car's made in Mexico and you're not worried?!

Ay caramba! :o

=============

No! not worried...being the labor unions here demand that a man/woman[I will leave the man/woman thing to your imagination] get 1: paid $20 an hour 2: have his and his entire family insured with dental and no deductibles 3: plus a nice retirement fund, to do his/her {agian leaving that to your imagination} job of screwing lug nuts on a wheel...THEN expecting a person making $6 to $10 an hour to pay $600 a month for 5 years on a vehical with maybe $1000 materials in it:huh: :huh: :damn: :o

Yes!... I'm ok with my car being made in Mexico

[Cpt. Stewker]

Whether this is bluster or not. The US-China relationship is not a mutual one regardless. It is extremely one sided, and they get the upper hand in everything. They get knowledge, technology, ideas, business, businesses, and etc from us. And what do we get from them... nothing but a huge trade deficit, we hardly sell them anything, we certainly don't acquire anything like what they are receiving from us on a daily basis. We have hung ourselves horribly. I do my part in boycotting everything that is "Made in China" but it's damn hard anymore here in the states cause almost everything is made or at least has a component coming from that country. If China were to say, we are nationalizing all private businesses and/or emplacing economic sanctions on the US, it would not be good for us at all economically. You thought the market crash after 9-11 was bad, that would be nothing.

Clinton was the one who lead us into this hole. Now, Bush is the one who seems to be doing nothing about it... Here's to hoping that '08 brings better resolve on this issue. I still agree with a lot of what Bush has done, but there are times like with this issue that I don't understand the man. This and his stand on immigration, but that's for another thread.

EDIT: just a few additions to make myself clearer.

[Sea Demon]

Clinton was the one who got us in to this hole. And then Bush is the one who seems to be doing nothing about it... Here's to hoping that '08 brings better resolve on this issue. I still agree with a lot of what Bush has done, but there are times like with this issue that I don't understand the man.

Agreed. U.S. presidential administrations since Bush Sr. have been telling us that a couple of nations unfriendly to the U.S. are "strategic allies", "regional partners", and such. The two I'm talking about are China and Mexico (governments). One screws us in trade, the other screws us on the border. And neither of them do I consider a friend of the USA. Some of this thinking is going to have to change in future administrations. Don't tell me it's raining, just so I can turn around to see Vicente Fox and Hu Jintao pi$$in' on my back. And then when I see it in broad daylight, don't tell me they're our "partners" and "friends". :stare:

P.S. I'm wondering about Felipe Calderon :hmm:

P.S.S. Incidentally, I think the Mexican government is the worst enemy of the Mexican people as well.

[Skybird]

It seems that radio man has taken the reaching of the one trillion dollar mark in Chinese reserves as a sign that they are about to drop them and exchange them for Euros. However, before calling "bluster", there is some truth in it (I recommend to read the full articles):

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8083036
BY THE end of October China's foreign-exchange reserves are likely to top $1 trillion, twice their level two years ago and more than one-fifth of global reserves. This handsome sum would be enough to buy all the gold sitting in central banks' vaults (indeed, twice over) or almost all of London's residential property. (...) The growth in reserves has slowed in recent months, but it is still averaging a hefty $16 billion a month. (...) China's official reserves already far exceed what is required to ensure financial stability. As a rule of thumb, a country needs enough foreign exchange to cover three months' imports or to settle its short-term foreign debt. China's reserves are equivalent to 15 months of imports and are six times bigger than its short-term debt. (...) How that money is invested has big implications for the world economy, not just for China. Brad Setser, head of global research at Roubini Global Economics, estimates that about 70% of it is invested in dollars, mainly Treasury securities. This has propped up the dollar and reduced American bond yields—by up to 1.5 percentage points according to some estimates. A big shift out of dollars could therefore push up bond yields and hence mortgage rates, damaging America's already crumbling housing market.

A worthy read I was linked to by a Canadian economist in a disucssion on these themes I just had just days ago:
A Weaker Dollar and a Receding US Influence:
http://english.daralhayat.com/business/12-2006/Article-20061208-6242b309-c0a8-10ed-019f-76a5636a81d7/story.html

And this I had placed in my link archive as well:
http://openpr.com/news/3379/China-boosts-gold-market-signals-intention-exchange-U-S-currency-to-the-Euro-precious-metals-due-to-weak-dollar-and-geo-political-concerns.html
As platinum reaches an all-time high, and gold hits 25-year high at $564 per ounce, all indications are that these record levels are only the begining of a shift away fromthe dollar. China appears to become more and more concerned about the $818.9 billion U.S. dollars in currency it currently holds. With America's foreign debt standing at
$8,184 trillion, while nearing the debt ceiling of 11 trillion as early as February 2006, it's not extremely difficult to understand why. According to a recent Bloomberg report, China's central bank will now start to exchange U.S. paper currency for hard assets-namely, precious metals. Apparently, this is some type of risk protection on all of the U.S currency it currently owns on behalf of the Chinese Central Bank. If China decides sells those dollars, the clear winners will be gold investors. And the clear loser being the U.S. dollar.

Despite the economical dynamics and the Chinese self-interest to deal with it's immense reserves in foreign currencies, it is clear form me that like America is swinging its sabres and guns, China is reacting to that challenge by swinging its wad of dollarnotes, and waging war in the economical field. This may look like the softer and more harmless power (Kung Fu! :lol: ), but it also is the more enduring one - as centuries of European history will teach you:

Before WWII, European powers stumbled over messed up finances (often exhausted by more military ambitiosn than their economy could handle) and unflexible tax and interest systems - not about military defeats alone. Most famous example was Napoleon - who was financially outmaneuvered by the British. He was not able to use the potential economical and financial superiority of France at that time (a fact that is often overseen, but potentially France should have been the richest and economically strongest nation in europe of that time - bad economical management and lacking understanding let that advantage stay within the realms of unrealized potential only), while the British redesigned their economy and tax system so that despite the losses and hinderings by the war they were able to show a durability and economical ability to sustain their resistance to the French dominance that Napoleon was unable to forsee (they also successfully avoided to overstretch their military).

Today's America fails in both of these details: it is locked in so many military commitements that it is more and more overstretched, and America fails in curing seriously ill financial bilances and trade deficits. Not to mention the heavy dependence on oil, which is the real Muslim currency today. The US repeat the mistakes today that in the end led to Napoleon's fall back then. Napoleon was a great general, but he was neither a trader, nor a banker or economist. By it's commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan, America even seems to relive Napolons march on Moscow, somehow. - Even the conventional mighty military machine of the US is depending on being supported by a healthy economy and financial support that does not depend too much on foreign powers, some of them being rivals, or even enemies - but exactly this dependence is the case today, for the US economy and financial system is far from being autark. Stop financial investements into the US financial markets - and the country will find itself in serious turmoil within extremely short time. A Chinese toppling of international currency markets to lower other investor's interests to invest into the American market any longer (if they do not see enough chances for revenues any longer - a hope that already today is a projection into the future so very often) could deliver a life-threatening blow to the American economy with it's ridiculous trade deficits, biblic ammounts of debts and it's massive dependence on imports (most empires were great importers and by that lost the ability to remain an autark economy) So far, many people in the world still have not realized how much America is at the mercy of the rest of a cooperating world (and americans do not want to hear that anyway :) ). Once this willingness to cooperate ends, it is game over for th US - with China rushing onto the scene of global trade in strength and with irresistable power, and with it's inexhaustible reservoir of cheap labour-workers, such end of willingness to subsidize the American way of economy could end sooner than especially Americans usually imagine - at the latest when for example the European and Japanese economies and labour markets start to seriously groan in agony under the Chinese economical attack and struggles for mere survival itself. Usually it is thought that what we have today in trade and economy and labour problems already is the impact of the Chinese raise. I say it is just a beginning, a foreplay to future things to come.

what is overseen since twenty years is that China is not the unlimited giant markets Western economists imagine it to be. They already have started to become very selective in their imports, and the better part of their imports are now knowledge and machinery that enabkles them to produce themselves. Once their production potential is of that capacity that they do not need to waste money on buying goods, western imports to China will drastically cut. With western leadership in science and technology - and education as a precodntions for these - slowly but constantly decreasing, Western hopes for some more decades of almost unlimited exports to China are a naive bubble only. The bubble will burst sooner than later.

The American ecocomy today reminds me of the money-cheat for a strategy game: you have a fantasy income to raise your game structures, and your good intention not to over-use it, but nevertheless your virtual game mechanisms of economy, army and supportive buildings get pushed that quick that more and more they are lagging behind the ability to be really self-supportive. It's a bubble and can only exist as long as you continue to pump cheat-money into the system. If you ever decide to not use the money-cheat anymore - you often find yourself left with a ruined match because you have built yourself an army that huge that it paralyzises the supportive power of your game economy immediately after the cheat-money is no longer flowing into your virtual purse.

It is considered to be unpolite to tell others that one has told them so, but I have told you so: saying on various occasions that the immense deficit of the US is its Archilles heel that sooner or later will do tremedous damage and puts its military power into relation, that living
on such monumental tick is leaving a maximum of economical vulnerability, and that the US will start to drift into trouble if the donators and foreign investors into American economy would ever decide to stop subsidizing American financial market and economy by doing so. I also said that China will not need to react to the US bullying in military ways, but can keep the US in check by economical and financial means - their preferred way of spreading their influence in Asia and the Middle East. Although their high reserves give them problems of their own, China
plays its card extremely clever, making maximum advantage of them and knowing that it is close to invulnerable to European and American demands concerning democracy, human rights and how to handle their currency. They are simply already that strong that they must not accept to follow these demands. Their biggest problem currently is the growing age of their population due to the demographic consequences of one-child-policies (which they are about to give up), the growing internal demand for goods, and the monumental reserves in dollars they hold. One should not expect too much willingness from Asia to help the US out: throughout Asia the questionable role of the US during the crash of the Asien stockmarkets in the late 80s and early 90s has neither been forgotten, nor forgiven. Their economies have recovered by now - and they will not allow to get surprised and crushed a second time like that.

The Brigadier pointed at one thing that you should feel extremely
nervous about: China holds the biggest dollar reserves of all your lenders. They already have
enough that they could trigger a chain reaction that leads to the international financial
markets being flooded with sold dollar reserves from everybody, which could leave the US with a
currency that is almost worthless and no longer capable to keep the US economy running. It is
running and living on tick. See the ICF warning about the ridiculous volume of US
deficit.

They (China) will try to secure their energy needs, and they will
try to gain the upper hand on a strategical level, which means economy and money in the first.
In this field America is extremely vulnerable, due to it's already monumental debts and
deficits. "Leben auf Pump", we say in German. If the flow of investments into the US would be
brought to a halt all of a sudden, it would be the death senetence for America, for it has lost
the ability to supoport it'S economical and financial existence by it's own ressources, not to
mention to maintain the luxury of such a huge military and ricidulously high defense budget.
The world indirectly already pays massively into that budget, some bitter truth America does
hate to be reminded of. All major powers in europe since 1500 sooner or later pumped more money
into their empirial ambitions than economically they could afford, and like you can read so
masterly illustrated in "The rise and fall of the great powers" by Paul Kennedy they all were
brought to braking point over issues related to their unhealthy state fiannces, sprinting
inflation and monumental state deficits. (...) but beyond that it is more likely they will
focus on economical and financial strategies. Chinese are great and dominant traders - and
trade is a force, as is known throughout Asia. (...) They will more try to do like the
Portugese, Dutch, and eventually later maybe like the British (who kind of mixed the militarily
controlled with the economically controlled empire, but control of trade, and thus: sea lanes,
still was the major ingredient). All these were economcially controlled empires, not
territory-controlling, military empires. The power to control the world does not lie in bombs
and guns, but in controlling the banks and the global cash flow. Or to cut it shorter: money
makes the world go round.

"A great civilization can only be conquered from the outside, if it already has destroyed itself from within." (Will Durant). - that is true with regard to Western economy and China's impact on these, and with regard to the Islamization of Europe as well.

[dean_acheson]

yeah, China is going to collapse the US economy..... right.

.... and the US will dump the only functional republican form of government that has ever existed in the Middle East.... double right....

Who does the PRC think buys all their worthless crap at Christmas time?
I so wish we (the U.S.) worried less about what the ex-Communists in Peking think about us.... they certainly don't care what we think about them.

What is it with the decision makers at Foggy Bottom that causes them to worry what folks think about the United States... are they worried that the delegation from Dictatorstan won't come to their New Years Eve coat and tail get-to-gether?

lol!

[tycho102]

yeah, China is going to collapse the US economy..... right.

Don't scoff. They're not going to do it on purpose -- they're trying to build their own infrastructure while our congress spends all their money.

Take a look at 2003-2004 TFO gap (otherwise called "debt" by anyone but our treasury department). That's $11 trillion (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53366). Where'd half of that come from? That's RIGHT! The land of China.



They'll collapse our economy when they have no other choice.

[Fish]

Iran announced yesterday ordering the central bank to direct foreign transactions and transform the state's dollar-denominated assets held abroad to the single European currency instead of the U.S. currency.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=12635

[The Avon Lady]

Iran announced yesterday ordering the central bank to direct foreign transactions and transform the state's dollar-denominated assets held abroad to the single European currency instead of the U.S. currency.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=12635
This has been predicted to occur 6-8 years ago. I don't know if the US Treasury is surprised but not lil' ol' me. :smug:

Of course, this is the sort of stuff that the lunatic left has been drooling to see happen, imagining that it will send the American economy into a tailspin. Waiting................

[geetrue]

This quote is from Skybird's quote:

BY THE end of October China's foreign-exchange reserves are likely to top $1 trillion, twice their level two years ago and more than one-fifth of global reserves.

If China has so much money in reserves ... Why can't they clean up their own pollution? I'm serious ... They have the worse quality of air in the world ... You can't even see in some of the cities on the coast.

Why don't we all (EU and USA) point out this little problem to China and make them reserve some of their own reserves for the good of the world we live in.? I've only got a good 15 to twenty years left, but I'm starting to understand why we should care about our children's children ...

[dean_acheson]

I'm wondering why the save the world left hollar all day about us signing onto Kyoto, and not the PRC....

Maybe it is because deep in their hearts they are still little Marxists with Che shirts who believe that Mao was right and just hate the United States and capitalism.

Then again, I am a bit cynical.

[Sea Demon]

I'm wondering why the save the world left hollar all day about us signing onto Kyoto, and not the PRC....

Maybe it is because deep in their hearts they are still little Marxists with Che shirts who believe that Mao was right and just hate the United States and capitalism.

Then again, I am a bit cynical.

Ding..ding...ding... Give that man a cigar. You win the prize. That's exactly what it's all about. The left cries about human and civil rights, yet ignores China and other serious abusers. They moan and whine about Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, yet are silent when it comes to REAL human rights slights such as North Korea's slave camps, Lao Gai in China, and human organ harvesting in China. I'm sorry but women's underpants on the heads of prisoners does not compare to these. The left in America want us to intervene in Sudan for human rights issues, yet are mad because we deposed Saddam Hussein....a gross human rights abuser. The left constantly hounds the U.S. on pollution issues, and CO2 emissions, yet has nothing to say to China for their filthy environment. Yes, the left hates America. Yes, the left hates capitalism. Yes, the left wants the U.S. economy to collapse. But don't hold your breath on the last one.

I'm like Avon. I'm still wating for all this mayhem to happen. :roll:

[Fish]

http://www.energia.gr/indexenbr.php?newsid=12522&lang=en

Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez is directing a growing share of the country's oil profits into euros as the dollar and crude prices fall.

The dollar, down 9.5 percent against the euro this year, may face more pressure in 2007 because Venezuela and oil producers from the United Arab Emirates to Indonesia plan to funnel more money into the single European currency.

``The U.S. dollar has suffered a long process of deterioration,'' Domingo Maza Zavala, one of seven board members at the central bank of Venezuela, said in a Dec. 14 interview. ``The diversification strategy started this year.''

[bradclark1]

Ding..ding...ding... Give that man a cigar. You win the prize. That's exactly what it's all about. The left cries about human and civil rights, yet ignores China and other serious abusers. They moan and whine about Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, yet are silent when it comes to REAL human rights slights such as North Korea's slave camps, Lao Gai in China, and human organ harvesting in China. I'm sorry but women's underpants on the heads of prisoners does not compare to these. The left in America want us to intervene in Sudan for human rights issues, yet are mad because we deposed Saddam Hussein....a gross human rights abuser. The left constantly hounds the U.S. on pollution issues, and CO2 emissions, yet has nothing to say to China for their filthy environment. Yes, the left hates America. Yes, the left hates capitalism. Yes, the left wants the U.S. economy to collapse. But don't hold your breath on the last one.

I'm like Avon. I'm still wating for all this mayhem to happen. :roll:

What in heck does your left buggyman rant have to do with this thread?
Trying to hijack?

[Sea Demon]

What in heck does your left buggyman rant have to do with this thread?
Trying to hijack?

Read the comment I responded to. I think all of their comments are pertinent to this thread as well.

[tycho102]

I've only got a good 15 to twenty years left, but I'm starting to understand why we should care about our children's children ...

It's going to take some rough policies to "fix" our fiscal position. Swapping out every single incumbent would be the best first move.

After that, there's a choice.