View Full Version : why should i bother to play after 1943
ok, here is my suggestion concernig difficulty: i play this game for a couple of months and i am still in early 1941. however, there is a large amount of posts saying stuff like: "in 1943, dont even bother to sail into atlantic, there is a plenty of destroyers waiting for you" or "after 1943, convoy party time is over" or "in late war years, rather stay undetected or you will die" and so on.
considering this, why the heck should i bother after 1943, if - according to many of you -i will be hunted like a rabbit and i can forget any convoy raids?
another thing is this gwx stuff, and destroyers. sometimes, i find even stock game destroyers difficult to escape, (although you say they are a cup of tea), and then i read, "just you wait, the gwx destroyers are deadly, it is almost impossible to escape"...
maybe i am still rookie and i dont use the right tactics, but anyway: do you think this will be fun? i dont know but it seems to me that it is worth to stay focused on hunting merchants, and not to pass hours and hours escaping and getting killed twice a day... perhaps, i am wrong, but i think that some people just pust the difficulty too far.
After being killed a honderd times you will get better. For me in 1943, the fun really starts (I'm using GW1.1A). I don't bother to begin in 1940, because i think it's to easy at the time (Hoping for a change with GWX though :rock: ). When i first started to play this game 90% of the time i was killed was out of stupidity. Now i like attacking convoys in 1943/1944, because it's challenge. If you play the game more and more, you wil understand what i'm saying. Just practise more. Good luck and keep sinking em!!
Grtz Tijn
HunterICX
11-30-06, 04:56 AM
we go till the end because...
Donitz doesnt like wimps who quit!
Be more agresive
Also after 1943, the Survival Starts.
its a challenge we really like about this game...because it's getting boring if you keep shooting easy targets....its more of a you sink a ship and ur saying ''Next! please.''
and after 1943...its more if you manage to sink a juicy target ''WOO-HOO!!''
its more satisfying to do something that has been a real challenging patrol.
HunterICX
From 1942 onwards, the game becomes more challenging. It feels pretty good when you finish the career against all odds. ;)
And it also is usefull when hitting on ladies. All you have to do is tell her that you´ve just finished a paintaking career in a world war II subsim and that you need some love, fast. Works everytime! :up::rotfl:
U-snafu
11-30-06, 05:11 AM
And it also is usefull when hitting on ladies. All you have to do is tell her that you´ve just finished a paintaking career in a world war II subsim and that you need some love, fast. Works everytime! :up::rotfl:
I want to live in your world:sunny:. My fiance still thinks I'm "not quite there" in regards to the time I spend on this sim :rotfl:
HunterICX
11-30-06, 05:38 AM
And it also is usefull when hitting on ladies. All you have to do is tell her that you´ve just finished a paintaking career in a world war II subsim and that you need some love, fast. Works everytime! :up::rotfl:
I want to live in your world:sunny:. My fiance still thinks I'm "not quite there" in regards to the time I spend on this sim :rotfl:
Reason to have SH3Cmdr.
after you completed a patrol you print your Personal data out of that patrol
go to a bar. and yell ''I,m THE BEST KALEUN!!!! NOW GIRLS CALM DOWN, 1 AT THE TIME'' (after that a long silenced moment where everyone seems to shut up at the same time and look at you with a strange look on their faces)
From 1942 onwards, the game becomes more challenging. It feels pretty good when you finish the career against all odds. ;)
And it also is usefull when hitting on ladies. All you have to do is tell her that you´ve just finished a paintaking career in a world war II subsim and that you need some love, fast. Works everytime! :up::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
melnibonian
11-30-06, 06:25 AM
You need to go through the end because if you're using SH3Cmd you can have another career after 1945. I've ended up as a taxman but that should not put you off (it's a well paid and respected job actually) :D :D :D :D
The Munster
11-30-06, 07:13 AM
From 1942 onwards, the game becomes more challenging. It feels pretty good when you finish the career against all odds. ;)
And it also is usefull when hitting on ladies. All you have to do is tell her that you´ve just finished a paintaking career in a world war II subsim and that you need some love, fast. Works everytime! :up::rotfl:
Dowly, will try that next time I see a Woman [dunno when that'll be, maybe next year?], thanks for the tip !
Kpt. Lehmann
11-30-06, 07:17 AM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Konovalov
11-30-06, 07:24 AM
In answer to the original question of the thread. Yes you should because if you do not follow orders you will be shot by Herr Otto Flick of the Gestapo. :dead:
MarshalLaw
11-30-06, 07:28 AM
Playing through to the end is the real challenge, It's easy early in the war, why do you think they called it the "Happy times". Remember also that as time goes along good upgrades come online as well. Improved torpedoes, Snorkel, radar detection, just to name a few. If you read up on the improved torpedoes, you can still take on convoys have success and have a good chance of escape. The only change is you now attack from a distance, instead of up close or within a convoy early in the war. That's where the pattern running torpedoes come into play.
Good hunting, stay slient and deady takes on a whole new meaning later in the war.:arrgh!:
To answer the original poster; I agree that if the game gets too hard it may be realistic, but not fun. I dont think it was much fun in real life either.
GWX has tougher destroyers than GW, but its not impossible, and I am no Prien.
Besides, Lehmann mentioned releasing a moderate difficulty version of GWX, which probably is more like GW in difficulty terms.
I thought I would be one of those who chose that option after a short time of beta testing, but I will never go back now. Every attack is a challenge, and I love it!
To answer the original poster; I agree that if the game gets too hard it may be realistic, but not fun. I dont think it was much fun in real life either.
GWX has tougher destroyers than GW, but its not impossible, and I am no Prien.
Besides, Lehmann mentioned releasing a moderate difficulty version of GWX, which probably is more like GW in difficulty terms.
I thought I would be one of those who chose that option after a short time of beta testing, but I will never go back now. Every attack is a challenge, and I love it!
I agree with you, mate! Its boring when you just can outsmart those DD's, based on their stupid AI. I believe that GWX will make the simple task of sinking a merchant into some seriouse planning, just as it was in real life..:yep:
AVGWarhawk
11-30-06, 10:06 AM
Pretty simple, you have spend the last three years making a veteran crew. Why deny you vitual buddies the opportunity to show how well trained they are because of you? Not to mention yourself. Put the boys to the test and survive so you can write a book about it:up:
Tachyon
11-30-06, 10:14 AM
To answer the original poster; I agree that if the game gets too hard it may be realistic, but not fun. I dont think it was much fun in real life either.
GWX has tougher destroyers than GW, but its not impossible, and I am no Prien.
Besides, Lehmann mentioned releasing a moderate difficulty version of GWX, which probably is more like GW in difficulty terms.
I thought I would be one of those who chose that option after a short time of beta testing, but I will never go back now. Every attack is a challenge, and I love it!
I agree with you, mate! Its boring when you just can outsmart those DD's, based on their stupid AI. I believe that GWX will make the simple task of sinking a merchant into some seriouse planning, just as it was in real life..:yep:
DD AI is stupid????
.............
...............
..................
.....
.
Suddenly, i'm not sure who's more dumb , me or the AI.. :huh:
irish1958
11-30-06, 10:14 AM
Stabiz is right. It is a challenge to evade the DD's in GWX Beta. You better not get caught in shallow water. As the years go by, it becomes more difficult. Isn't that what happened?
If you look at the map of sunken U-Boats, it looks like the Atlantic was paved by them.
By 1943 the Battle of the Atlantic was really over.
Didn't Prien get his goodies in the far East?
DD AI is stupid????
Suddenly, i'm not sure who's more dumb , me or the AI.. :huh:
Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.
1 Is pretty easy to evade.
2 Is a big challenge.
3 I might as well surface and hit All Stop.
When the bolds get available it is a favourable change. Bolds are very effective if used right. :up:
The normal version of the game has some good AI Destroyers but they don't appear until later in the war. I think you can't deny that the escort are pretty stupid until "42. So for me 43/44 are with GW the best year. Yes i die most of the time in the end of 43 of somewhere in 44 but i like it. This game must be hard because that's the way it really was.
That's way i can't wait for GWX to be released. To give me some thrills even in the beginning of the war.
OW and other reason to play further in 43..... My VIIC looks damn sexy with the third coning tower and quad AA!!!!:rock:
The Munster
11-30-06, 10:45 AM
When the bolds get available it is a favourable change. Bolds are very effective if used right. :up:
With the Bolds, it's all about getting the timing [to release them] right.
It's a relief to hear the pinging fade off in one direction while we're off in the other :D
Its also alot of fun to listen to the Brits pound a tin can to pieces with 50+ depth charges!
Safe-Keeper
11-30-06, 04:34 PM
Challenge:arrgh!:.
Variation. After having started 10 000 careers in 1939, I long for something different.
New radio messages, ships, planes, etc. coming into play.
Think that covers it:up:.
Incubus
11-30-06, 04:42 PM
After 1943, sinking merchants actually feels like more of an accomplishment. The challenge allows you to be a lot more careful- there will be contacts that look like a sure thing, but using experience you'll know it may not be worth the risk to your boat. Often in many patrols I have to turn back after sinking only a few ships to ensure I make it back alive, since enemy surface/air presence gets larger and with radar and ASDIC there are very, very few places to hide.
I think that the reason so many people get googly eyed when we talk about the "stupid DD AI" is that there really isn't a widely available DD Evasion guide out there. There are mountains of guides on how to actually make a torpedo hit something. But after that info gets quite thin. Learning to evade DDs is mostly a self taught thing. I think that what we need to do with GWX is release something like a strategy guide.
What I can give you guys in the interim is a little synthesis of commonly accepted wisdom amongst more experienced folk.
Deeper is better (especially in the new GWX). DD ASDIC sensors have a cone and that cone gets narrower as you get closer and deeper. If you can get under him he won't be able to see you and he is blind in his baffles (his arse).
Keep your speed low when deep and accelerate in bursts when you won't be heard or when he is running over you in a Depth Charge attack when he has lost contact with you temporarily.
Use the Bold decoy the moment it is available. Effectively deployed it is excellent at throwing off a DD.
In the game you profile to the DD is important. Facing your bow or stern to him reduces your visibility.
That's my rudimentary set of tips. Maybe someone whos a bit better than me can add some detail (like how to use Bolds properly).
Cheers
I was just going to ask that. I've heard several people state that Bolds work well when "deployed effectively", how exactly is that done?
mookiemookie
11-30-06, 05:58 PM
The only thing I'd add is to not be afraid to outrun them on the surface if you know you can. Flower corvettes have a max speed of 16 knots, and if you're out of range of their guns (or at least far enough away and presenting a small target) then you can hightail it outta there.
Remember, when you're submerged you're blind and very slow. If you can avoid putting yourself in that position, by all means do so.
oscar19681
11-30-06, 06:25 PM
Man i,m always complaining the destroyers are way to easy for me man .
Sailor Steve
11-30-06, 06:39 PM
In reply to raduz's original question, "why should I bother to play after 1943"? It really depends on what you're looking for in the game. If you just want to sink ships and have fun, play on the lower (easier) settings and go for it. Without any of the mods it's probably still fairly easy to sink the enemy and survive. You can safely add things like the Harbour Traffic mod and graphics mods yourself, and not change anything.
When you feel more comfortable at harder levels, or are crazy like some of us and want to pretend we're really U-boat Aces (yeah, right!) then you have to accept that the odds are you're going to die sooner than later. That's one of the beauties of this particular game-you can be as realistic, or have as much fun (or both) as you want. It all depends on your taste.
The supermods are tailored more toward the "realism" side of things. There is no rule that you have to use them. I personally use a hodge-podge mess taken from several different sources, though that may change with GWX.
We'll see.
Subwolf
11-30-06, 08:01 PM
If you have survived into -45, and see the message "Germany has capitulated, lay down your arms and return to base", then the game is won and you can call yourself a true U-boat kaleun :yep:
I always use bolds
And this is how i use them....Firstly keep your momentum going, roughly 8 Kts Submerged and keep your speed.
When the DD's get within around 1000-800m angle your boat down fully keeping your momentum going.
As soon as you hear the first Ping, Release decoy, kill engine, still on the downward angle..and hard to port/Starboard for a few seconds, back to rudders amidship this should take no more than around 20-30 sec..you still have roughly 4Kts forward momentum, rig for silent.. then slowly creep with a downward angle of about 10 degrees. You sound then be around 80-90m deep. and break starboard or port for about 10 mins ( if needs must ), you should escape without a scratch :|\\
This works almost all the time :up:
PS... only works for deep operations
Duty
Orders
Survival
Honour
Challenge
Get back out there and sink some shipping!
:D
VonHelsching
12-01-06, 01:54 AM
ok, here is my suggestion concernig difficulty: i play this game for a couple of months and i am still in early 1941. however, there is a large amount of posts saying stuff like: "in 1943, dont even bother to sail into atlantic, there is a plenty of destroyers waiting for you" or "after 1943, convoy party time is over" or "in late war years, rather stay undetected or you will die" and so on.
considering this, why the heck should i bother after 1943, if - according to many of you -i will be hunted like a rabbit and i can forget any convoy raids?
another thing is this gwx stuff, and destroyers. sometimes, i find even stock game destroyers difficult to escape, (although you say they are a cup of tea), and then i read, "just you wait, the gwx destroyers are deadly, it is almost impossible to escape"...
maybe i am still rookie and i dont use the right tactics, but anyway: do you think this will be fun? i dont know but it seems to me that it is worth to stay focused on hunting merchants, and not to pass hours and hours escaping and getting killed twice a day... perhaps, i am wrong, but i think that some people just pust the difficulty too far.
As war progresses the player must change his mindset and "play" as a real Kaleun would do. Not waiting around in periscope depth to reload after the first salvo. DDs are more experienced and have better sensors. Depth is your only friend.
I understand that all players are accustomed to a way of playing the game. But the game evolves as well during the course of the years, so the player should evolve as well...especially in GWX. Tonnage is not everything in the last years. Getting away alive is.
Von
ecm747x
12-01-06, 05:41 AM
As far as progressing past 1943, for me it is the challenge of the hunt. As has been mentioned, when you are able to get into position and fire a bow full of fish and take a ship to Davey Jones' Locker, then survive the onslaught of the DD'S, it is a great feeling. In the earlier years of the campaign, I was actually bored. It was really no challenge to take multiple ships down and evade the DD's.
I have been involved with the Beta test of GWX. The AI is much better than the vanilla version by a long shot. Is also a little more challenging than GW1.1a. At frist I got owned a few times by DD'S. I just spent more time planning my runs, staying deep and in SR till the last possible moment, staying on the hydrophones and not comming up till I hear the front screen of DD's between me and the ships I am after. As soon as I launch my eels, crash dive for about 15 seconds then slow to 1-2 knots and make a hard turn, using my momentum from the crash dive, that will postion me for another shot later on at another ship. So far this tactic has kept me going strong with very little, if any, damage to my boat.
Just stick it out and I think you will find an even deeper appreciation of the game,and sence of accomplishment.
If you get GWX, I would practice on a couple of single missions to try it out and see how it goes before you start a campaign. There are several changes to the game and would help out just practicing a little before heading right into a campaighn. Or join us on a few MP missions. They can be very challenging at times as well.
One question for the BETA tester of GWX? Is it still wise for me to start in 1942 with GWX? :lol: I might take your advise and try some single missions first. I'm really looking forward to the new damage model. It's not that the current one (GW1.1) is bad, but sometimes it's a little out of balance form time to time.
Grtz Tijn
melnibonian
12-01-06, 06:32 AM
If you have survived into -45, and see the message "Germany has capitulated, lay down your arms and return to base", then the game is won and you can call yourself a true U-boat kaleun :yep:
True :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:
The Munster
12-01-06, 06:53 AM
One question for the BETA tester of GWX? Is it still wise for me to start in 1942 with GWX? :lol: I might take your advise and try some single missions first. I'm really looking forward to the new damage model. It's not that the current one (GW1.1) is bad, but sometimes it's a little out of balance form time to time.
Grtz Tijn
Hi, my advice to you is to start at 39 and work your way thru it; I would also recommend you play just the stock SHIII game leading up to the release. That way, you will appreciate more the fantastic changes that have been made. :D
Playing Stock SH3 ?:down: Ok maybe to just run the training course for the extra 1500 renown. Thnx for the advice though. I will start in 1939 and begin with that nice humble IIA boat.
Grtz Tijn
Der Eisen-Wal
12-01-06, 10:50 AM
playing SH3 in 43' on, is like watching a beautiful life in war story, you realise that every second counts.
perhaps everyone here are just 'all wind and smoke'. :)
keep the crew alive, and bring the boat home in one piece. that in itself is worth bothering.
The Munster
12-01-06, 12:37 PM
I don't see smoke here but more of a 'flame'.
no flame here. i just realized that you guys are too good and if the stock game seems to me difficult than I must definitely do something wrong. however, if you say you never attack the DDs with the deck gun, I wont do that anymore. cheers
It's your game matey, play it how YOU want :up:
It's your game matey, play it how YOU want :up:
I know I can play it way I like but I dont want to feel like a cheater ;)
kiwi_2005
12-01-06, 01:18 PM
Because the game is a real challenge from 1943 onwards, and thats what we want in a game isn't it? I can't wait for 43 to roll on.
Sailor Steve
12-01-06, 06:03 PM
It's your game matey, play it how YOU want :up:
I know I can play it way I like but I dont want to feel like a cheater ;)
There are lots of things other people do that would feel like cheating to me, and it works the other way, too. I pride myself on playing what I consider 'realistically', but I still don't use manual targeting. And I still use the external view; not to gain anything, but just because it's so cool to see all the neat stuff.
That's the real reason you should use one of the supermods: to see the Kiel Canal and all the cool harbor traffic. It's amazing how much of a difference just those two items make.
Wave Skipper
12-01-06, 06:33 PM
and.....hull coverings...and more schnapps!
U-snafu
12-01-06, 06:44 PM
One question for the BETA tester of GWX? Is it still wise for me to start in 1942 with GWX? :lol: I might take your advise and try some single missions first. I'm really looking forward to the new damage model. It's not that the current one (GW1.1) is bad, but sometimes it's a little out of balance form time to time.
Grtz Tijn
I did most of my testing in the black sea which starts in sep/oct 1942:
If you like the "II"-You can start in 42 with the 30th flotilla in the black sea campaign--hint though---use sh3 commander which will give the historic sub option or just keep the IID throughout the black sea campaign untill you transfer to Flensberg in aug 1944.
It's a nice change of pace and from the regular campaign---you even get to paticipate in an historic operation there near the end if you chose:cool:
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