What attack do you prefer?

[IceGrog]

I had once read that Otto Kretschmer said the best way to attack a convoy was to be inside it, I figure he had the most tonnage so he knows what he talking about. I’ve been trying to get inside for all my convoy attacks but inside my mobility is cut down and I can’t get a perfect 90 angle on the ships, and I see many of torpedoes just bounce and slide down the ship’s side without exploding. And then there’s the escorts they are always in the area close by and I don’t have enough time to dive to a safe depth before they start pounding me. I’ve tried to get in front of convoy and just wait for them to come to me, which is ok but when I take a head shot like that the ships can turn to easily away from the torpedoes and again my torpedoes just bounce away.
Now my last convoy I decided to attack from outside the convoy. I was able to get a good side shot on a big tanker, she went down and I was able to dive before the escorts got there.
So what do you men & women prefer, or what is your favorite way of attacking a convoy.

[Saukko]

I usually fire my first fish 1000 meters from outermost ship, and while my crew is releading next salvo I go inside convoy, easy shots for next salvo and to hide the escorts.
Of course I usually get bumped by a ship or two but in most cases there is no damage. And while inside convoy I can shoot my aft and fore tubes without turning.

[melnibonian]

Usually I make the effort to be inside the convoy so I can fire with the aft tubes as well. The other good thing is that once inside the convoy it's a bit difficult for the escorts to start throwing depth charges at you. It all depends on the situation though. I have attacked convoys from 3-4km away with great results.

[VIICDriver]

From 90 degrees to the side I pick one of the bigger ships in the front on the farther side from me for my 1st shot, that one is usually about 2800m or so then pick another one closer in and fire, then lastly one in the closest column to me and fire. If I do it all correctly I have 3 (or 4 if one is a salvo) hitting at about the same time. That way they do not start evasive maneuvers after the first impact and make the others miss. Also at least 2 of the ships are the first in the columns that way the other ships have to slow and turn around them. Whilst that maneuver is taking place I am usually in about 40m of water at ahead flank across the convoy and sometimes you can pop up to periscope depth on the other side and get an aft torp off at one of the tailing ships. Then I'm usually out of tubes but one of the front ones is about reloaded so I 180 turn and when that front tube comes up I can finish off any of the ships that just happened to be wounded, then I'm out of there with usually at least 3 kills, sometimes 5.

Its tricky to perform and does not work all the time, especially against faster convoys. And later in the war the "crossing the convoy manuever" will not cut it becasue the escorts have become too advanced for that.

Once early in the war I caught a small convoy (Vanilla SH3) with NO escorts in calm seas! I torpedoed all of them then sat on the surface and deck gunned them all! That was a memory that has not happened since after playing modded versions of the sim.

Hope this helps, just how I have been doing it!

Chuck

[Corsair]

I think the main interest of this game is that besides general rules, the tactical situation is never the same. There are so many factors, like what year it is, what the weather and visibility are, how fast is the convoy, how many escorts, where they are at the time of the attack, what time of the day (or more often of the night) that you have to find the appropriate tactic and balance between being greedy and safe. Above all I think you have to be patient and find the right moment. If you manage to get inside undetected it sure makes things easier to get close range shots and it makes life harder for the escorts to find you.

[IceGrog]

you have to be patient

Patience, something I don’t have, just one of my problems.:damn:
But it does seem to me, at least with my attacks, that the escorts have no problem finding me, bad or good weather.

[Corsair]

I play NYGM and find that the weather has a big influence on how easy (or less hard...;)) you can escape after they found you. If you manage to go deep in bad weather they will have trouble pinpointing you if you run slow and silent. Nice weather just cost me the end of a long career. One destroyer was sitting still finding me on the Asdic although I was 140m deep and the other one was making the attack runs. I escaped them for more than 1 1/2 hour real time until they got lucky and a depth charge damaged the bow. I had no time to order coming back to 90m safe depth, the light started blinking in the command post, water started leaking in and game over.
Which by the way means that it is interesting to go deep to try and evade detection, but is at the same time dangerous if the hull takes any damage.

[Der Eisen-Wal]

you have to be patient
Patience, something I don’t have, just one of my problems.:damn:
But it does seem to me, at least with my attacks, that the escorts have no problem finding me, bad or good weather.

you'll have to learn to be patient, or constantly put your boat in jeopardy. i assume you are always travelling at Ahead Full when intercepting a convoy? Because when I was impatient I used to do the same, until you realize that is exactly what is giving you away to the DDs.

[waste gate]

This is my latest and most successful tactic.

First, and often the most difficult exercise is to make contact with the convoy.

Maneuver to attain a position ahead of the convoy. This is probably nothing new to experienced Kaleuns. Since you have been running on the surface for quite some time to get ahead of the convoy your batteries/O2 should be at full capacity………you’ll need it.

It is essential that you are directly in front of and in the path of the convoy. A quick submergence to periscope depth for a sound reading is required for your positioning. Repeat as necessary.
Being in the path of and directly in front of the convoy is the key to this tactic. Adjust course so your heading is the reciprocal of the convoy heading. Maintain this course on the surface.

Once you are confident of your course you can remain on the surface until the WO reports ‘ship spotted’. Dive to 60m immediately. Worry not about being detected at this range. I wouldn’t order a crash dive, but a 7.0 kt dive to 60m has never been a problem. Once at 60m reduce your speed to 3.0 kt and initiate silent routine. Because you are heading toward the lead destroyer, which is always at the front of the convoy, your sonar signature is very small. Patience and nerves of steel are required because the lead DD will often approach very close aboard.

Because you are maintaining a watch on your hydrophone you will know when the lead DD has passed. I usually give the DD 3 minutes after passing before I order a move to periscope depth, all the while maintaining a silent routine. On occasion the lead DD will turn hard about and make a run back to the convoy so a well maintained watch on the hydrophone is critical. If the DD is headed back at you stop you accent until the danger passes, and it will unless you lost your. patience and nerves of steel. Continue your accent to periscope depth.

Because of how you positioned yourself you should be heading towards the heart of the convoy. Yes, that is where all the major targets are located. None of those low tonnage small or coastal merchants, the big boys, T3, T2, C3, troop transports, and an occasional passenger liner, is what you are after this time. Adjustments to your heading may be necessary to put yourself in the best position between columns. Be advised, never allow yourself to become fixated with your periscope above the waves for longer than a few moments, remember the lead DD may not be far behind you. Pick your targets quickly. Also during rough weather watch your depth very closely. Nothing will give your position away more quickly than a broach. Fifteen meters will keep your conning tower below the waves and still allow for some quick target acquisition.


My patrols are performed in the type VII boats. Consequently I have only five fish available for the attack, which is how I will explain the attack. If you are commanding the type IX or XXI your boats and attacks will allow for more weapons. Initially I pick three targets. The largest tonnage is what I’m after so I pick the biggest ships. The targets may be on my port or starboard sides. I always choose one ship to attack using my aft tube. That ship is as far at the head of the convoy as practicable. The aft target is very important. You see the lead DD will always go toward the closest and last ship hit by a torpedo, and the lead DD is your greatest threat.

Because of your position, within the convoy, the gyro angles and the angles on the bow will be very high. This can be a bit un-nerving if you are not accustomed to it. Your advantage is the close range. Choose your targets in an order which brings the least attention to your position.
That is, the largest ship that is ahead of you and furthest away that is 1000m or less. Your second target will be on your bow or less than 90°/270°angle about 600m away. Always use your stern fish last.

During poor weather, with silent routine off, you may be able to have one reload and attack before the DD’s localize your U-boat but don’t count on it and be ready to dive quickly.

For the escape I dive at 7.0 kt and maintain my reciprocal heading until I reach 80m. The noise of the dieing ships will keep you hidden for a short time. At reaching 80m I revert to silent routine and keep a close watch on the hydrophones. Knowing where the DDs are will help you evade, attempting to keep the lowest possible cross section to the DD’s sonar. Course changes of 10°every 5 to 10 minutes will also help in your evasion.


That’s how I do it.

[Redwine]

Normally, i always attempt to flank the convoy, i put my sub infront of them, taking a position to be away of the frontal escorts, and wait.

The hard matter is to evade the frontal escorts, if i can do it sucessful, i attempt to take position between the fatest ducks, sailing in oposit course to them, and then, i wait for the best moment to shoot, normally all torps with near to 45/90 degrees of giro angle.

It is hard for the escorts to detect and reach the sub, frontal escorts have your sub at their back, the lateral escorts are covered by the lot of ships, and the rear escorts are so far to reach you, and when some one is near, i dive and run silent.

I remain silent up to them gone, then i surface, reload external torps and internal tubes, and go to flank the convoy a new time, to take position infront of them another time.

http://www.eshock.es/forum/style_emoticons/default/diablotin.gif

[Incubus]

Like others have said, it depends on the situation. I like the convoy attacks where you repeatedly attack the convoy. If you are very patient, every one of your torpedoes can hit a ship and you can come back to base alive.

I think something that plagues novice players is they see all these ships and feel it would be a 'waste' to leave empty handed. However if you are good at plotting the escort's course you can simply break off the attack, sprint ahead, and make another attempt. Catching the convoy far enough out to sea allows you as many attempts as your torpedoes and fuel will allow, if you are PATIENT enough. For example:

There was one convoy I attacked where during each approach, an escort spotted me. One of the nice things about escorts attacking you, as opposed to any random DD puttering out in the ocean is that they are obligated to stick with the convoy, and generally will break off their attack to catch up with the rest of the convoy. I took advantage of this. Every time I was spotted, I'd throw a decoy at about 50m depth, dive to 120m and creep away at 1kt. After they disappeared off the horizon I tried again. On my fourth attempt I was able to sneak into the convoy and sink a T3 cargo, a T2 tanker, and a cruise liner with my 5 torpedoes :arrgh!: which was definitely a reward for my patience.

[Razman23]

I agree with the others about getting in front of the convoy.

I just got out of a patrol that cost those limeys eight ships (escort carrier and C3s) and one lone ship that just happen to show up while I was putting the finishing touches to a ship that didnt sink right off.

I run straight at the convoy about 25m deep on a collision course with silent running. I usually slip past the lead DD then I come up to periscope depth and pick out my victums. But I am afraid that after GWX comes out, we will all be rethinking things.

[tycho102]

This is my latest and most successful tactic.

Maneuver to attain a position ahead of the convoy.

It is essential that you are directly in front of and in the path of the convoy.

Because you are heading toward the lead destroyer, which is always at the front of the convoy, your sonar signature is very small. Patience and nerves of steel are required because the lead DD will often approach very close aboard.

Because of how you positioned yourself you should be heading towards the heart of the convoy.

Be advised, never allow yourself to become fixated with your periscope above the waves for longer than a few moments, remember the lead DD may not be far behind you.

Pick your targets quickly.

Also during rough weather watch your depth very closely. Nothing will give your position away more quickly than a broach.

The aft target is very important.

Because of your position, within the convoy, the gyro angles and the angles on the bow will be very high. This can be a bit un-nerving if you are not accustomed to it. Your advantage is the close range. Choose your targets in an order which brings the least attention to your position.

That is, the largest ship that is ahead of you and furthest away that is 1000m or less. Your second target will be on your bow or less than 90°/270°angle about 600m away. Always use your stern fish last.

Knowing where the DDs are will help you evade, attempting to keep the lowest possible cross section to the DD’s sonar.

That’s how I do it.


This is called the "dead stick" approach. The idea is you are just a stick floating in the water, making no sound.

After the lead escort passes you (you should be on "silent" running at 1kt), turn 60 degrees askew to the base course of the convoy. This will give you much better AOB's, resulting in more detonations. Your maximum impact angles will still be 30 degrees, but there's no reason for them to be much more than that.

Spend everything quickly, turn toward the aft end of the convoy, and start diving. Use 5kts until you get down to 50 meters, then slow to 2 kts. You want to exit out the rear-flank of the convoy, heading on a "diagonal" from their base course. It is also possible to do an evasion out the rear-flank of the convoy at periscope depth but it depends on the placement of the escorts.

Concentrate on keeping as much distance from the stern escort because he is usually the one that is facing you most directly. Don't worry about the flank escort as much, since he should be heading into the middle of the afflicted convoy and at a 90 degree bearing from you.

The stern escort is the one that will usually get a ping off you. Exit out the rear quarter of the convoy, and focus on presenting minimal profile to the stern escort.



Head outside visual range, run an end-around and make another pass if there's still things worth shooting.

[VIICDriver]

I like the idea of the head-on approach and will give it a shot however I just do not have any luck with gyroangles outside of the 340-020 zone.

Torps end up just glancing off the ships.

I hit them from 90 degrees dead on and rarely if ever have a glance off. But I will give that approach a try, it sounds fun even if I do not kill anything!

Chuck

[darius359au]

I like the idea of the head-on approach and will give it a shot however I just do not have any luck with gyroangles outside of the 340-020 zone.

Torps end up just glancing off the ships.

I hit them from 90 degrees dead on and rarely if ever have a glance off. But I will give that approach a try, it sounds fun even if I do not kill anything!

Chuck

Im haveing great success comeing in from the front and running Torpedoes with magnetic pistols under the choice targets :D , if you dont kill them in one go , you atleast end up crippeling them for later.Set them for about .5m under the targets draft and they usually work.

[Steeltrap]

Did exactly what tycho described. I find firing from 60-80 degrees AoB is fine. Annoying thing is I only hit with 2 from 4 shots, but I'm still getting the hang of manual (I play 100% manual shooting - I still allow external camera, but I only use it to watch the fun, I always evade etc in command room/map screen, and have disabled "God's eye" mode). One amusing result is that I appear to have blown a propeller off a transport and jammed its rudder. All it can do is maintain a straight course, which is creating some excitement as the rest of the convoy has started zig-zagging....

Early on you can get pretty close to an escort if you're at 1kt and silent speed. It does take a bit of nerve, but slipping past the lead escort means you get to shoot at whatever you like.

The point about Kretschmer is he did his attacks within a convoy ON THE SURFACE!! Have yet to see what is possible in that respect - my most recent convoy encounter was at dawn, so I had to do the 'dead stick' method. Annoyingly, I was detected by a Corvette when I surfaced astern of the convoy @ about 8km.....so had to dive again and am now evading, although not too difficult as it appears not to have found me and is presently punishing fish about 1000m away....:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

As I've several different approaches depending upon when, where and how convoy detection and intercept occur, it's difficult to explain what I do. However, I'll explain how I do things for the 'approach of my choice'.

Where I want to be is at least 50 klicks away, on the surface, almost dead ahead, of the convoy's projected path. When I submerge is dependent upon: 1) weather conditions and 2) current year.

If it's heavy precip and heavy fog I'll submerge about 20 klicks out (I won't be able to visually approach unless they're within 400 meters, nor will I be able to see an escort in my lap until then, so why risk that?). If Allied radar is an issue (in latter years) I'll submerge about 20 - 30 klicks away; once they've spotted a potential contact the escorts get friskier. :eek:

Otherwise I submerge at about 6 - 8 klicks away, to a depth of 15 - 18 meters, again to avoid potentially being spotted and waking up the escorts to general quarters. 15 - 18 is below periscope depth, but has two advantages: one is that my conning tower won't broach the surface if the swells are running heavy, and two is that the passive sound detection of escorts aren't able to easily detect sounds above 20 meters. And passive detection should be all I have to worry about as long as the escorts haven't gone to a higher alert due to a recent visual or radar contact.

At 5 klicks range I want to be between 500 meters to 1,500 meters to the side of the convoy path, with my approach intercept angle being 0 - 15 degrees, running at silent. Periodically I'll pop up to periscope depth and take a few quick readings. That accomplishes several things: it lets me keep track of the escorts positions and headings, and I take bearing records of the convoy leaders, marking their positions on my map and refining their course and speed (adjusting my position as needed to maintain my approach) before dropping back down to 15 - 18 meters.

If all goes well (and I'm surprised at the frequency it does, even in late '42 and running GW1.1 and NYGM) once around 1,500 meters away from the lead escorts I'll maintain a depth of 14 meters and pop the scope up about 5 seconds every 2 minutes, using the hydrophone heavily to keep track of the approaching escorts so I can pre-position my 'scope for snapshot peeks at the escorts. It's quite nervewracking to watch a Black Swan creep by at 5 knots on a back-and-forth sweep pass by me at 400 meters! :o

Once the forward screen has passed I drop again to 15 - 18 meters (no reason to tempt the Fates and possibly have my conning tower spotted to due a freak swell broach, or something else just as freakish). By now the leading row of the convoy should be 3 klicks out or thereabouts, and I should be 500 - 1,000 meters to one side of their baseline course, at an approach angle of 0 - 10 degrees . . . which effectively has me sliding under and towards the middle of the convoy.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/nicepositiontobein.jpg

When my hydrophone checks start picking up the closest contact at short range, I drop silent running, go to ahead one third, and rise to periscope depth. I look around, adjust to pass between two of the columns, pick 2 targets of one column for my forward tubes and one for my stern (btw, I almost always drive a VIIB or VIIC after trading in my IIA (if I started that early and with that, anyway)). I don't keep the scope up; it's up for 10 - 20 seconds every minute or so, until the actual firing run.

(Before GW1.1 and NYGM I would have selected 5 targets total. But I'd rather go for the 'certain kill' and use 2 fish per ship than go hogwild and fire one per ship and risk seeing four damaged targets continue steaming frantically away at their full speed. Then again, this isn't a 'firm-and-fixed' rule of mine either. If the weather is good and the seas are calm I'll fire one per ship. The reasons for that is: 1) I'm usually less than 1,000 meters from my target, 2) have a firing angle within +/- 30 degrees, 3) have an AoB within 65 - 115 degrees and, 4) can manually target certain critical areas (ex. fuel bunker, engine room) with a high certainty of fatally damaging the ship with one well-placed shot.)

When my targets are about 1,500 meters in front of me and at an angle of 30 or so degrees relative to my bow, I do a 90 degree turn and go to 1 knot (for depth station keeping) after the turn is complete, positioning myself so my two selected targets will pass in front.

Then I wait.

I wait until the lead target passes in front, and passes. No more than 15 - 20 degrees, then I set final speed and depth to the fish, open the tube doors, carefully aim and fire, then immediately pick up my second selected target and begin tracking.

Why wait until it passes?

The moment a torpedo explodes the jig is up; the convoy knows a U-boat is out there and, worse, is actively tracking and firing at them! Those nice steady courses of theirs begins to alter and change as they zigzag and weave. By letting the first ship pass by, I give my second targets more time to get closer. Closer means more accuracy, less torpedo travel time, less time for the target to evade.

Immediately after firing the first time I make a mark on the map right where my position is, then I return to tracking and firing. After all five have been fired, I drop scope, go to ahead third, go to 15 - 18 meters again and slide under the convoy to the other side, using the sounds of their screws (and, hopefully, their explosions and sinkings!) to cover and screen the sounds of my passage.

So far this has seemed to work surprisingly well for me.

[peterloo]

My plan:

When I see a convoy, I may try go ahead of it and wait. When I see the leading DD, I usually torpedo it w. 2 torp and disable it / even sink it

Afterwards, sure, the ship will start evading measures, but I may try to sneak ( to 350m) up some big, fat T2 / T3 / C3 / troop transport with AOB=0 degree. Fire 2 torps. With my type 7, I may also use the stern tube to attempt to kill 1 more
DD so that the remaining stuff are spell doomed [since only 1 DD is remaining help them any more]

When I have all tubes reloads, I may start another attack, focusing on the remaining DDs / large merchants. When all torps are used up, I may surface to reload external torps for sinking stationary / disabled ships or use desk guns to kill 1 / 2 more tankers in the early war. No desk gun after 1942 since every ship is equipped with desk gun which may pierce your hull