Seth permanently banned?

[stabiz]

Oh, come on! Because of his admission of illegal downloading?

Give him a few days, he is a real contributor on this site. :nope:

[danlisa]

I agree.

Start the SET SETH FREE APPEAL

I'll sign it:up:

How many signatures do we need?

[Pants]

This is getting to be a joke now..people who need to be banned/suspended arn't, people who do contribute to the forums are getting banned/suspended :nope:
It's getting to the point that i am ready to put SH3 away and say goodbye to subsim.

[Subwolf]

Seth did a bad mistake, a very clear violation of the forum rules here.

[Safe-Keeper]

His tag reads "in the brig".

But yes, that's way too harsh. A friendly, helpful community member who never harmed anyone being permanently banned for admitting to downloading a stupid expansion pack? With all due respect, I loathe piracy with a passion, but that's just too severe a punishment.

SET SETH FREE:rotfl:

[Pants]

He admitted it yes.. BUT he did'nt distribute it or even post a link to DL it from.
So for me the Punishment is WAY to harsh..a quiet PM would of sufficed IMO.

[stabiz]

Maybe Gizzmoe or Neal have changed the vedict, I dont know, but he sent me a message on youtube and told he had been permanently banned. He was upset, since he really likes this place.

[HunterICX]

:hmm: So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words in that closed thread so I dont really see a reason to ban him for it. a Post deletion or Edit and an Warning via PM would be enough.

[Subwolf]

Very low tolerance in this forum when it comes to even mention piracy, warez and so on. He got himself to blame for this, and he should know better.

But Seth deserves another chance, let's hope that the moderators will change their minds in this case.

[Gizzmoe]

But Seth deserves another chance, let's hope that the moderators will change their minds in this case.

This already was his second chance. stabiz, you are in contact with him, ask him to tell you what he did on 21th of August. Then you will fully understand the decision.

[HunterICX]

Subwolf: An slap in the face would do enough, if he gets a warning if he ever mentions Piracy bussines again that he would be banned forever. an reasonable person will remember this and never would do the same thing

A perm ban would be good for person who spit in the faces of others with heavy foul language suits well

but a reasonable person like Seth, he should have shut his mouth about it. but too late he flapt it out by accident or rush an warning for him would have been good enough to remember that he had gone far enough.

HunterICX

[Subwolf]

Thank you Gizzmoe, then I understand.

[fredbass]

Subwolf: An slap in the face would do enough, if he gets a warning if he ever mentions Piracy bussines again that he would be banned forever. an reasonable person will remember this and never would do the same thing

HunterICX

I'm not judging, but I think what Gizz has said is that he already received the slap in the face the first time around and it didn't work.

[Gizzmoe]

I'm not judging, but I think what Gizz has said is that he already received the slap in the face the first time around and it didn't work.

That´s correct.

[Warmonger]

:hmm: So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words in that closed thread so I dont really see a reason to ban him for it. a Post deletion or Edit and an Warning via PM would be enough.

Why would someone say that he illegally downloaded something when he actually bought it? :o

[Subwolf]

:hmm: So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words in that closed thread so I dont really see a reason to ban him for it. a Post deletion or Edit and an Warning via PM would be enough.

Why would someone say that he illegally downloaded something when he actually bought it? :o

What you say here Warmonger can be a bit confusing. He said that he downloaded it but didn't pay for it.

And HunterICX, to be honest...that's what I believe too, that he lied about the download to have something behind him when he wanted to tell me what a bad product it is.

But it's still piracy talk, and if this was the second time he broke the laws in here, well...

Jeg er også norsk, var synd for deg Seth. Jeg kunne se at du likte deg her, beklager.

[Gizzmoe]

And HunterICX, to be honest...that's what I believe too, that he lied about the download to have something behind him when he wanted to tell me what a bad product it is.
He didn´t lie. He already admitted earlier that he pirated one of their expansion packs and that - plus some extremely stupid other thing he did - got him his first suspension.

[Subwolf]

Then he deserved this, end of story.

[Warmonger]

:hmm: So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words in that closed thread so I dont really see a reason to ban him for it. a Post deletion or Edit and an Warning via PM would be enough.
Why would someone say that he illegally downloaded something when he actually bought it? :o
What you say here Warmonger can be a bit confusing. He said that he downloaded it but didn't pay for it.

And HunterICX, to be honest...that's what I believe too, that he lied about the download to have something behind him when he wanted to tell me what a bad product it is.

But it's still piracy talk, and if this was the second time he broke the laws in here, well...

Jeg er også norsk, var synd for deg Seth. Jeg kunne se at du likte deg her, beklager.

I found it more confusing what HunterICX said:

'So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words'

So I admit to have downloaded sth but actually I didn't. But still I know the game/expansion in more detail. What other options are there? Either you buy it or you get it through 'darker' channels.
Or did you mean that he pretended to know it but actually didn't ever play it?

[stabiz]

I still think this is to harsh. I haven`t heard from seth what he did 21. august, as Gizzmoe mentioned, but to ban people permanently is rather drastic.

[Gizzmoe]

I still think this is to harsh. I haven`t heard from seth what he did 21. august, as Gizzmoe mentioned, but to ban people permanently is rather drastic.
"Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account."

And he´s a repeat offender.

[kylania]

I still think this is to harsh. I haven`t heard from seth what he did 21. august, as Gizzmoe mentioned, but to ban people permanently is rather drastic.

It's part of the posted rules we agreed to when we signed up here:


What is Subsim.com's stance in relation to warez and piracy?

SUBSIM Review has a longstanding policy against software piracy. We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez, abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, illegal download sites, or rip-off websites. Nothing will get you banned faster than pointing people to illegal software distribution sites. Don't ask for serial numbers, manuals, or cracks. Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account. Support computer game programmers buy legally purchasing their work. They have to eat too, you know.


So while it sucks, it was the posted punishment for such actions. Combined with whatever happened in Auguest, I can see a perma ban happening.

[stabiz]

I dont have to agree even if its in the rules.

What about the larger picture? Perm ban for people who make this a funnier and more interesting place to be?

Yes, he has screwed up, but he couldn`t have been aware of what he got himself into.

[danlisa]

I have no idea what previous transgressions Seth has been pulled for.

I also agree, that whatever the moderators decide is the best course of action regarding failure to comply with the forum rules is, then it must stand. Their word is final and I doubt anyone will be able to change their minds.

I also agree entirely with the Forum Rules regarding Piracy, Cracks, etc etc. I firmly believe in supporting the developers of all software via the legal purchase of this software.

However, (you knew there was going to be one)

I would ask you to consider the following (as this issue always comes back to the same sticking point).

These expansion packs have been proven to contain work by modders who were not informed/asked/paid or credited for their work. As such the developers of these expansion packs have not supported the original developers in any way shape or form.

Now, because of the excellent relationship Subsim has with developers/game studios, I can totally understand the need to keep all talk of Piracy, Cracks etc off the forum, but the old adage applies here, “two wrongs, don’t make a right” but I believe that there maybe a need to relax the rules in this case as Seth has done nothing different to what the expansion developers have done.

We can penalize Seth. But how do we penalize the developers of this expansion pack?
Not buy their Expansion Pack?

I don’t want to get into a lengthy discussion about the Ubi Agreement we all signed when we first used SH3, as it’s been discussed before.

I just wonder if there might be a little wriggle room in this instance.

[mountainmanUK]

Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account

The word "can" means that there may always be a workaround, in light of any mitigating, or extenuating circumstances!

It's like EVERY case of someone dropping litter being automatically given the MAXIMUM penalty......doesn't happen in reality (although the Rules say it can).

Personally, I don't know Seth, never even exchanged conversations on these Forums with him, but I have enjoyed reading some of his posts, and have benefitted from his knowledge of SH3!

From what I have seen, it isn't as if the "Pirate software" admittance was at the more blatant end, such as posting links, web addresses, details etc.

In all honesty, if the truth be told, how many of us can be 100% sure that they have NEVER downloaded any pirate, or illegal software, even by accident!

JMHO

[fredbass]

I think if it were anything else, the punishment wouldn't have been so harsh, but unfortunately subsim would be condoning his actions by allowing him to stay, and could result in negative consequences for the site, so the choices are limited. IMO

[Gizzmoe]

but I believe that there maybe a need to relax the rules in this case as Seth has done nothing different to what the expansion developers have done.
Apples and oranges. Seth has admitted twice that he possesses pirated software, two commercial products that he hasn´t paid for. What the developers of the expansion pack did was something completely different.

[danlisa]

but I believe that there maybe a need to relax the rules in this case as Seth has done nothing different to what the expansion developers have done.

Apples and oranges. Seth has admitted twice that he possesses pirated software, two commericial products that he hasn´t paid for. What the developers of the expansion pack did was something completely different.

Ok, nuff said.

Thanks

[Subwolf]

Originally Posted by danlisa
But how do we penalize the developers of this expansion pack?

Easy answer for that...sue them!

But! It hasn't happened yet, I wonder why. Where is the proof? I wanna see it. That company has not been sued yet as far as I know, their products are still out there in the stores. Danlisa you got no right to judge this, so be careful. Let's call them suspects instead...until we see a verdict from a court of law.

However I don't think we will see that, this case is probably not serious enough to end up there.

[Dowly]

Anyone else noticed that there has been ALOT of 'in the brigs' recently? Alot of crap has happened before without the person being banned, but why the mods are so strict now?

Anyways, hang in there Seth! You did the right thing IMO. F*ck the X1.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by danlisa
But how do we penalize the developers of this expansion pack?
Easy answer for that...sue them!

But! It hasn't happened yet, I wonder why. Where is the proof? I wanna see it. That company has not been sued yet as far as I know, their products are still out there in the stores. Danlisa you got no right to judge this, so be careful. Let's call them suspects instead...until we see a verdict from a court of law.

However I don't think we will see that, this case is probably not serious enough to end up there.

We cannot sue them. They have Ubi´s permission to mod the files, no matter if G-d him/herself made the mod, they can take it and use it as long as they have ubi´s permission. They havent done anything illegal, but what they did was morally wrong.

And why it is so hard to take a look at the thread, where modders identify that there are their mods used?? Open your eyes ffs!

[danlisa]

Danlisa you got no right to judge this, so be careful. Let's call them suspects instead...until we see a verdict from a court of law.

Where in my post have I judged them? I have not called them thieves or accused them of stealing. Now if you want to imply that from what I have written then that is up to you.

This has been done for me, did you read this from your other thread?

It is not a suspicion. Examples of mods taken and sold without author permission are clearly identified both for SW and UBIMD and it is even described how anyone can check that. See for example, this thread concerning their UBIMD or SW-Med release
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97553

There was also an official investigation by Subsim staff into this matter before the first SW release when it was concluded that it is a scam.

[danlisa]

And why it is so hard to take a look at the thread, where modders identify that there are their mods used?? Open your eyes ffs!

No worries Dowly, I've posted it for him

[Gizzmoe]

Anyone else noticed that there has been ALOT of 'in the brigs' recently? Alot of crap has happened before without the person being banned, but why the mods are so strict now?

We are not more strict than before. It´s just that some people had accumulated several warnings, they still didn´t get it and did something stupid again, so they got suspended or banned.

[R1fl3M4n]

damn it ,i know seth 'he just started skinning some subs and now this happens ...bad luck i presume' '

[Subwolf]

That's correct Admiral Dowly! They haven't done anything illegal by the law, and that's why I have been defending their products...because they are good. But we also got the wonderful GWX-team, and they will release the "same" product, for free :up:

[HunterICX]

:hmm: So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words in that closed thread so I dont really see a reason to ban him for it. a Post deletion or Edit and an Warning via PM would be enough.
Why would someone say that he illegally downloaded something when he actually bought it? :o
What you say here Warmonger can be a bit confusing. He said that he downloaded it but didn't pay for it.

And HunterICX, to be honest...that's what I believe too, that he lied about the download to have something behind him when he wanted to tell me what a bad product it is.

But it's still piracy talk, and if this was the second time he broke the laws in here, well...

Jeg er også norsk, var synd for deg Seth. Jeg kunne se at du likte deg her, beklager.

I found it more confusing what HunterICX said:

'So he admitted he Downloaded the Expansion pack (piracy)
but how to proof it? he could lie about it just to stronger his words'

So I admit to have downloaded sth but actually I didn't. But still I know the game/expansion in more detail. What other options are there? Either you buy it or you get it through 'darker' channels.
Or did you mean that he pretended to know it but actually didn't ever play it?

Like if u are with the guys

and they are talking about a group of chicks that you saw last night in the club.
now they are curious how to would be in bed...you just lie about ''I banged that blondies sister last night, that was great'' the others might then be confinced they are good in bed ;)

So in Seths case of a lie, for example

He didnt have the Expansion pack.
Subwolf says the ones that dont have it dont know sh!t about it
Seth wants to proof he is right that the Expansion sucks
well, he can tell ''I have buyed a copy bla bla bla''
but Set thinks this ''What will others think of me when I bought it?'' he expects negative results.

Seth doesnt want that to happend he wanted to stay on a Cool/neutral level. you know keep his head high.
''Well I downloaded the pack and its full of spyware bla bla bla''
seth thinks:
1. the anti-SW side will think: See what seth said, it sucks he tried it but also he didnt support he producer
he forgot about the other side:
2. the Pro-SW side sais: He is a pirate!, how could you download something you think it sucks in the first place bla bla.
And he didnt remember that Piracy is a stab in the heart on this comunity:
3. Mod: Sees a piracy act one of the members , breaking the forum rules and bans him.

I dont care if seth lied or indeed has the mod pirated from the internet.

Well what seth said I will refer as a foolish act. especially when most of us know piracy is not to be spoken about keep your HD private. we dont wanna know what you do with the internet.

now the perm ban:

I find it too hard, now I dont know what happend in August, his posts dont go further then September. at least that are the ones I can find on his profile.
Also, he mention that he downloaded the expansion, ok?! did he in anyway promote the expansion while we know better not to do the same, he didnt said where he got it from, nor he shared files of it.

''He Said that he downloaded it''
Reason to perm ban it for it?
No
Temp Ban? Yes, and double the days in the brig then the last time he was in it.

''He said that he downloaded it and posted a link where to get it from''
Thats a reason to perm ban him.

because still we are human beeing , sometimes we screw up by a dumb action. nobody is hurt or has been insulted. we are dissapointed that he said those things but the punishment is just Way to hard

HunterICX

sorry for some gramar mistakes or spelling, but I hope a clarify my other post a bit.

[Warmonger]

Ok, Hunter, now I got your intention. Sorry for misinterpreting your original post.;)

[Dowly]

That's correct Admiral Dowly! They haven't done anything illegal by the law, and that's why I have been defending their products...because they are good. But we also got the wonderful GWX-team, and they will release the "same" product, for free :up:

YES BUT THEY STOLE FREE MODS AND SOLD THEM!!!! WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!

And please tell me, what you mean by this "because they are good."?

Good like they havent broken the law?

Good modders?

I cant find a single good thing about their product (well, of course the great mods made by the COMMUNITY).

Like you said in the other thread, people have opinions. This is my opinion, based on findings of the modders here in SubSim.

[Subwolf]

Danlisa, yes I did read that. But if I was a lawyer I couldn't use that as evidence...that's my point.

It's the moral side of this that hurts you, and I understand that, as I have told you before.

[AVGWarhawk]

Man this thread went a-rye. Seems that Seth has bought the final out. Two wrongs do not make a right. X1 steals + Seth piracy=right? Not in my book. Anyway how about a three strike rule?

[Gizzmoe]

Anyway how about a three strike rule?

There is a three strike rule for most rule violations, but not for all. Some violations are worse than others.

[FIREWALL]

Go look at thread Silent Hunter Monday 11-4-06 :hmm:

The tap danceing done around "The Rule" would make Fred Astaire proud.

[Gizzmoe]

Go look at thread Silent Hunter Monday 11-4-06 :hmm:

The tap danceing done around "The Rule" would make Fred Astaire proud.

There was no tap dancing around "The Rule". I had contacted ASWnut via PM and asked for an explanation.

I'm not exactly getting the boxed version, more from a friend.
Hi! Please explain what that means...
My friend is going to download it (pay, not piracy version), and I will pay him back:yep:

[Respenus]

Can't SETH just make another account. Sir Big Jugs has (I havne't seem him in quite some time, where are you mate?) after his first account was banned. I remember him posting clearly that he had around 600 posts in his previous banned account. All Seth has to do, is create another account and come back a hero (of sorts, depends on the person).

[Subwolf]

Now let's relax this thread and do as those two guys in firewall's signature, looks like they are havin fun ;)

[Gizzmoe]

All Seth has to do, is create another account and come back a hero (of sorts, depends on the person).

No, it´s not allowed to circumvent a ban.

[GT182]

by SubWolf
But we also got the wonderful GWX-team, and they will release the "same" product, for free

Yep, and X-1 will steal that too and make another addon.

If the modders had been paid by Ubi and then given X-1 permission to use the mods then that would be fine. But they didn't did they?

[Respenus]

All Seth has to do, is create another account and come back a hero (of sorts, depends on the person).
No, it´s not allowed to circumvent a ban.

I don't wait to say anything, but how did Big Jugs manage to circumvent the ban as you put it?

[Gizzmoe]

I don't wait to say anything, but how did Big Jugs manage to circumvent the ban as you put it?

He didn´t, we´d never banned or suspended him.

[Respenus]

I don't wait to say anything, but how did Big Jugs manage to circumvent the ban as you put it?
He didn´t, we´d never banned or suspended him.

:o

Sorry then. I must have misread his post on the subject.

[Onkel Neal]

I don't wait to say anything, but how did Big Jugs manage to circumvent the ban as you put it?
He didn´t, we´d never banned or suspended him.

:o

Sorry then. I must have misread his post on the subject.

Yes, Big Jugs/Brewster Pilot asked to be banned and have his posts removed. We didn't do that. He was back in two days asking for a new avatar :)

[Onkel Neal]

Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account

The word "can" means that there may always be a workaround, in light of any mitigating, or extenuating circumstances!

It's like EVERY case of someone dropping litter being automatically given the MAXIMUM penalty......doesn't happen in reality (although the Rules say it can).

Personally, I don't know Seth, never even exchanged conversations on these Forums with him, but I have enjoyed reading some of his posts, and have benefitted from his knowledge of SH3!

From what I have seen, it isn't as if the "Pirate software" admittance was at the more blatant end, such as posting links, web addresses, details etc.

In all honesty, if the truth be told, how many of us can be 100% sure that they have NEVER downloaded any pirate, or illegal software, even by accident!

JMHO

I understand your point. As far as I know, no one has been banned after one case of discussing piracy or mentioning it. In most cases, the post is edited and the warning is posted, plus a PM requesting that the person not bring up piracy, not brag about knowing where to download an illegal copy of the game, not to declare they have the game and did not pay for it, etc. In this case, Seth has been requested not to do this before. His previous case was borderline hacking, involving uploading X1 stuff onto a mods folder for anyone to download. That could get people in real legal trouble.


Seth is a good guy. No one wants to ban people, but we need to do what is necessary to keep the Subsim forums known as the place where serious, thoughtful, responsible gamers reside, not a hacker doods site.

[VonHelsching]

I think this guy should be given another chance.

Von

[Dowly]

I think this guy should be given another chance.

Von
:yep:

Maybe a one or two weeks in the brig first.

[mr chris]

Seth is a guy that has given alot to this comuinty:yep:
Free SETH:up:

[GT182]

I agree, one more chance. But, only with an appropriate time off. It'll give him time to think about what he said and did.

[1mPHUNit0]

Reverse engineering it's not illegal and more safe.
Heeeee....and no banning from forum
Piracy ...ummmm too big world.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I never admit to anything illegal, in writing, ever.

I think it's a good policy to have!!!

[HunterICX]

:hmm:

Thx Neal for giving the first reason of his ban.

I know its wrong, but still he did no harm on this forum.
its against X1 who wherent supposed to make those expansion out of others people work. Most here on subsim are totally against X1, we are angry about that. some totally HATE X1. can you blame them? how would you feel if you invented something that you give away free and some cheap company takes it without permission and asks money for it.

Seth's actions where a little overated and out of the lines here on subsim and he sat for it.

Now he mentions :
that he has the 2 packs (....didnt bought it though.) .
Subwolve ask where did he get them.
and that it is not of you bussines (pointed at subwolves reply).
And i wont ever touch the X1 stuff!

that is the same as saying (refering onto the SH3 Monday thread)
I,m not gettign the boxed version of SH3.
Mod asks for further explenation
My friend is going to download it (online purchase he mentions)

not that I acuse Thread poster, my apologies if he feels that way. but why can someone not say that in the first place that he is going to get a Online Purchased SH3 download from a friend. because when I red ''Not exaclty the boxed version'' I thought an illegaly copy on an CD

Why didnt a mod asked for explanation in Seths case?
he would replied : I borrowed it from a friend.

would something happen then? I wont know. but he didnt mention that he illegaly downloaded it. how could we know? we cant unless we live next door to him?
but no...we acuse him of piracy Perm ban, bye seth.

and yet again , I dont care if he has or not. a lot of people are against this hard punishment. we would agree on a longer term ban , then instantly ban him forever:nope:

HunterICX

[WilhelmSchulz.]

All Seth has to do, is create another account and come back a hero (of sorts, depends on the person).

No, it´s not allowed to circumvent a ban.
WELL HOW THE WOULD YOU KNOW YOU DICTATOR!!!!
Banning Seth is like banning Stabiz or Kpt. Lindamen(GW project head). So I speak for everyone when I say
SET SETH FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gizzmoe]

Some of you still seem to think that we somehow treated him unfairly. Ok, here´s the post that got him his first suspension. Since we are nice people we didn´t actually ban him for that. We gave him a second chance, but he didn´t make the best of it.

This isn't a comparison topic, i would just inform you that i`m uploading the
"uboat: battle of the mediterranean" mod to uboat.realsimulation.com.

i have called it "mediterranean mod", it is in the mod-section.

This is actually a payware mod, but its made by freeware modders in the SHIII community. the company behind the release may just as well file a policereport against me, considering i have stolen what they stole in the first place.
If they want to hunt me down, i have to remind them that i am a former army sniper, and that i am looking forward to see them on about 600 meters....


This mod is also available at different p2p-sites (i will not mention the name of the pirates website...:arrgh!:) .

Feel free to download it, i dont know how long the uboat.realsimulation.com will allow it to be there.

Respect for the freeware modders!

(time in norway is now: 0550 in the morning. my upload-meter tells me that it is 8 hours until the upload is finished. Patiens, friends...)

[kiwi_2005]

Well look at it this way, Seth spent time in the brig, when he gets out he be one of da family, he got his honor, he's done time. Hes now earned his Subsim Patch. Wear it proud Seth wear it proud! :p

:arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh oh. Not a painted pretty picture. Attempting to make two wrongs a right. Looks like a serious issue here to me. I suspect Subsim has to protect their site as well and not allow this to be posted. All fail to realize this type posting affect Subsim legally as well!!!! (See Gizmos post to threads back) Keep that in mind!:nope:

[mr chris]

Well look at it this way, Seth spent time in the brig, when he gets out he be one of da family, he got his honor, he's done time. Hes now earned his Subsim Patch. Wear it proud Seth wear it proud! :p

:arrgh!:
I thought Seth had be banned permantly..

[Dowly]

Well look at it this way, Seth spent time in the brig, when he gets out he be one of da family, he got his honor, he's done time. Hes now earned his Subsim Patch. Wear it proud Seth wear it proud! :p

:arrgh!: I thought Seth had be banned permantly..

Isnt he??

[Subwolf]

Well Neal, if I may, thank you for letting us know what he did back in august.

But there is something I want to tell you. I don't think Seth is a really bad person, and I know a little about personalities. He didn't do that back then because he is a swindler, but because he was angry with X1 and what they have done to the subsim community. Of course it was a wrong thing to do, but he didn't understand the consequences for him. This is what I think, I don't know him and haven't talked to him in private.

I must say however that I believe a permanent ban is too hard. I got a feeling that he hurts a lot now, because he very much enjoyed this forum, community, his mates and the subsims his hobby. I think he has learned his lesson the hard way already after being banned for just a few hours.

So I want to ask you, and I think I can do that on behalf of the entire community, to consider a temporary ban for Seth, and let him come back in after a couple of weeks or maybe a month. Then I am sure that he will never do anything like this again.

Thank you.

[kiwi_2005]

oh okay i thought it was the brig. My mistake.

[Dowly]

From Seth:

Hi, m8teys!

From beeing presumed MIA, i have surfaced. I have some heavy repair work ahed, after beeing depthcharged by the USS Gizzmoe...

Jokes aside, I will try to explain the happening that lead to the ban at subsim.com, if its ok with Dowly. Dowly; if you dont think this is appropriate, please delete this thread.

1: The happening 21 of August at Subsim.com:

After beeing fed up abouth those X1-guys that stole all those mods, i decided to upload a pirated version of the BITM addon to ubrs, for everybody to download and use, without having to pay. I also posted these news on subsim, resulting in a one week ban from the forums. (The upload never completed, btw) I accepted this and took my well deserved punishment, and i realized that my actions was against forum rules and policy. I acted in affect, because i was relly P*ssed off. After the ban, i got rid of the pirated version, and me & and friend decided to get the BITM and SeaWolves-addons the legal way. We went online, and purchased both. My friend used his credit-card to pay, since i didnt have the money to do so. We both installed these on our computers, but after some lousy experiences with both of them, we uninstalled both.

Currently, i have NYGM 2.2 and GW 1.1a on my computer, and i will never touch any pirated stuff, addons or what so ever.

Some time ago was thinking of posting the movie "morgenrot" on the internet, but i wasnt sure if it still was copyrighted (its made sometimes in the 1930's). I checked with the subsim forum and the admins about this, and there was alot of doubt around this topic. Because of this doubt, i didnt post this movie. (This movie was a legal version, btw)..

2: When i told Wulffman (or subwolf, sorry, doesnt remember) that i had the seawolves and bitm-addons, but i didnt pay for it, is because technically these copies arent mine, its my friends, since he paid for those. I also told wulffman/subwolf that "it wasnt his business where i got them", because i didnt want to imply any possible illegal actions.

If i offended anyone, i deeply apologize. I will also like to apologize to the subsim community, if my actions could be interpreted as illegal. I think a permanent ban is way to much punishment. I am willing to do time, but not forever. I am also willing to pay a punishment-donation to Subsim.com, if thats an alternative.
I really like you guys (and girls), and i feel like i can talk to you about everything. I love submarine and naval simulations, and meeting people with common interrest is important to me. I have learned so much from all of you, from how to make a signature to repaint my sub. Leaving you like this is just sad, believe me..
I will actually miss Bernard too, belive it or not.

3: To Neal & Gizzmoe: Im truly sorry. I promise that this wont happen again.

Kind regards

Dan

AKA
_Seth_

[kiwi_2005]

Serious now: What Seth done is a bit to far, sure he did it on the motive hes helping out here. And im sure neal doesn't think hes a bad guy thats not the point, forums have to protect themselves, and subsim is well known, you might get guests/new registed posters coming in check out the forums and last thing any admin/moderator would want them to read is something about piracy. There first thoughts would be oh so this site supports piracy, hmm another dodgy site. Who would want that type of label for their site. I thought tho a month in the Brig would mellow seth out.

[GT182]

Then by the admission that other SubSim members stole from X-1 files from SW before it was released, means they too should be banned from SubSim? http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=100571

That's not happened that I know of, but by a slip of the lips Seth gets banned. Maybe that was his 3rd strike but..... Ironic what others did and get away with to say the least.

[P_Funk]

I understand the rules (especially now that we've had them explained in detail) but I still feel that losing Seth is a bigger hit to the community than his infractions. Certainly it was STUPID to just post a link and upload a hacked mod on a site where a thread got instantly closed once when someone mentioned the no DVD hack in relation to removing Starforce and I STUPIDLY asked how to get it and the next reply was Gizz closing the thread. I'll say that Seth is a fun guy and apparently daft as well.:doh:


However it seems obvious that, provided his apologetic letter via Dowly is sincere, Seth has learned his lesson and has been burned badly for breaking the rules. Obviously the forum rules won't be changed but I think it's possible to show some leniency here and give Seth a very short leash. Call it parole. Showing some carefully placed mercy isn't being soft on piracy.

[Gizzmoe]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.

[Respenus]

From Seth:
2: When i told Wulffman (or subwolf, sorry, doesnt remember) that i had the seawolves and bitm-addons, but i didnt pay for it, is because technically these copies arent mine, its my friends, since he paid for those. I also told wulffman/subwolf that "it wasnt his business where i got them", because i didnt want to imply any possible illegal actions.

If I read this right, it means that he only broke the rules once and this time his words were misinterpereted. With only one strike, me might be able to come back, after doing some time that is.

[Respenus]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.

Thank you Gizzmoe! :yep:

[P_Funk]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.
That's what I'm talking about! The system FREAKING works!

And this is why SubSim is the best message board on the net.:up:

So I'll start planning the parade, who'll pick up Seth from the joint?

[bigboywooly]

Sanity prevails

[AVGWarhawk]

There is a moral to this story. Does anyone know what it is?:hmm:

[stabiz]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.

Thanks, Gizzmoe. I understand your job is difficult, since you might have to strike down on someone you actually like. Moderators never get praised when they do well, but they do get alot of flak when people disagree.

I also understand that a forum on the internet is not a democrasy, and that rules are everything. But this ruling pleases me, not just because I`ve become some sort of friend to seth, but because this proves that this forum is not as rigid as some say it is.

Good call!

Ahhh ... now, whos buying the beer?

[Subwolf]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.

:up:

You ARE moderators. I want you guys to moderate my forums, how about a $1000 a month? ;)

[U-104]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.
:rock::rock::up::sunny:

[Herr Russ]

New to the boards & new to the game.. I wish I had 1/2 the friends as Seth has.. You guys stuck by him even though he was wrong..

It sounds like Seth brings a lot to this site.. If that's true, then Thank You Gizzmoe. :sunny:

[Dowly]

There is a moral to this story. Does anyone know what it is?:hmm:

No matter what happens, SW still sucks?

(Sorry couldnt resist! :rotfl:)

Carry on!

[Subwolf]

You should resist Dowly, or u'll have us goin again ;)

[HunterICX]

:()1: I'll Drink to that , Thx Gizzy (oops did it again)

[Dowly]

You should resist Dowly, or u'll have us goin again ;)

Sure....
Wait...

So
U are saying I
Cause the problems here?
Kudos to Neal & Gizzmoe!
Subsim rocks!

Ok, I stop now! You have your opinion, I have mine! Fair deal! :up:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

FYI, I´ve changed the permanent ban to a two week suspension.
Thank you Gizzmoe. My belife in the mods have benn slighty re-enstated. But I still dont trust you. :shifty:

[Rose]

SETH?! NO! He has been so helpful to me lately with some personal things... Please have mercy! It's good that it's not permanent, otherwise I wouldn't know what to do.

[Subwolf]

You should resist Dowly, or u'll have us goin again ;)

Sure....
Wait...

So
U are saying I
Cause the problems here?
Kudos to Neal & Gizzmoe!
Subsim rocks!

Ok, I stop now! You have your opinion, I have mine! Fair deal! :up:

Had enough fighting for today, so let's continue tomorrow...hehe...kidding
Okey then, SW sucks...GWX coming up soon anyway :rock:

[Rose]

I sent him Seth an important PM before I learned of his ban. Does anyone know how I can get it to him? Anyone have an e-mail address? I don't think I can wait two weeks.

[Subwolf]

Stabiz got his email or something, try to ask him Rose.

[stabiz]

You can get him at youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dan39340

Just register, and he will get an email when you send him a message, rose.

[Rose]

Thanks a bunch, Stabiz :D.

[John Channing]

And just so everyone knows (because I haven't been very visible around here lately), I think Giz showed a lot of class and maturity in reducing Seth's "sentence".

A lot more than I would have.

Take my meaning?

JCC
Just cuz you don't see me, don't mean I ain't watchin'.

[NipplesTheCat]

I dont know Seth but I think it was a good choice. Look at is this way Giz,...seth owes you big now. If Seth is half as good of a guy as he sounds I dont htink you will have any more trouble from him. You have just done him a favor and nobody in their right mind would bite a friendly hand.

[kiwi_2005]

And just so everyone knows (because I haven't been very visible around here lately), I think Giz showed a lot of class and maturity in reducing Seth's "sentence".

A lot more than I would have.



:yep: I agree.

I got my first ever permanent ban from a forum just the other day. A forum i just join a day before the banning. Man i was angry at the reason and what pissed me off even more is i could not PM the admin asking for an explaination apart from the one i got when logining in.

Logged in and a popup flashes in front of me "You have been permanently banned from this forum for mentioning the word "crack" WE DO NOT SUPPORT W***Z!!!

WTF!!! I never mentioned that w***z, nor did i type anything regrading copying? It was a Battlefield 2 forum, I just needed to find out about cracking single player. For example in the battelfield 2 game there was a mod that came out that opened up all the single player missions to 32 and 64 players, the original was just 16 players, also it enabled all unlocked weapons. With battlefield 2142 the latest game i asked if anyone was going to CRACK the single player missions so they to would be 32 & 64 players. I think because i mentioned the word crack i must of been a pirate?

Oh well the site sucked anyways and have found an aussie BF2142 forum asked the same question and got an answer: its in progress of been cracked. It aint some form of piracy its just a modder opening up all the single player maps from 16 to 32/64 player.

But i was banned for good over one word!. So Seth your very lucky - but good to have you back even tho i dont know u. :)

[NipplesTheCat]

And just so everyone knows (because I haven't been very visible around here lately), I think Giz showed a lot of class and maturity in reducing Seth's "sentence".



I would have to agree with that as well. The mods had to make a tough choice and I think that they did a good job of showing the forum that talk of piracy wont be tolerated. This situation also demonstrates that the mods are people too, and that they dont want to ban any forum members anymore than we want to be banned. We all just need to take some care in our posts so we dont put the mods in a position where they have to make these tough calls. I am new here and this thread has shown me how serious the mods are about the rules. I have learned a lesson from Seths mistakes, and even though I dont know him, I am glad to see that he has been given one more chance.

[Subwolf]

And just so everyone knows (because I haven't been very visible around here lately), I think Giz showed a lot of class and maturity in reducing Seth's "sentence".

A lot more than I would have.

Take my meaning?

JCC
Just cuz you don't see me, don't mean I ain't watchin'.

Gizzmoe is a very good moderator, the way they are supposed to be. He reacted against a violation of the forum rules, but also listened to the majority of the forum users who meant that a permanent ban was too tuff. He can make decisions together with the users, and that is the key to a great forum. Gizzmoe is a moderator who will earn respect.

[Onkel Neal]

Gizzmoe is a very good moderator, the way they are supposed to be. He reacted against a violation of the forum rules, but also listened to the majority of the forum users who meant that a permanent ban was too tuff. He can make decisions together with the users, and that is the key to a great forum. Gizzmoe is a moderator who will earn respect.

I agree with 100% of what this man said. :yep:

[irish1958]

Three Cheers for the Giz!!!
:lol::lol::lol:

[Herman]

The manner in which this entire episode has been handled has given me the utmost respect for all the parties involved.

It's situations like this that makes SubSim unique. :up:

[Reece]

Hi, dare I say anything Gizz!:D
I have been thrown in the brig by Gizzmoe but have also been helped on many occasions too, so yes my hat's off to him!:up: However, the reason I was thrown into the brig is on a subject that can be classed as legal & unlegal. One thing I hate is having to feed in different CD/DVD's everytime I play a game therefore I fix it so that I don't have to do this, & IMHO I think that this is legal, however it can be used for illegal purposes & that makes it a rather touchy subject & I have been warned by Gizzmoe a couple of times before about this subject & finally I got thrown in the brig!:cry: But boy did I get a shock, and being suspended, even though it was only a few days, was still a frightening experience, the thought of a permanent bann is quite horrifying!:dead: Seth must be suffering withdrawl by now!:lol:
By the way Gizz, i'm a little shakey at even posting this!:oops:
Edit: I just read the thread "A point of order", now I am worried, a very touchy subject!

[mr chris]

Great news:rock: Cant wait to have Seth back in the forums:yep:

[HunterICX]

Hi, dare I say anything Gizz!:D
I have been thrown in the brig by Gizzmoe but have also been helped on many occasions too, so yes my hat's off to him!:up: However, the reason I was thrown into the brig is on a subject that can be classed as legal & unlegal. One thing I hate is having to feed in different CD/DVD's everytime I play a game therefore I fix it so that I don't have to do this, & IMHO I think that this is legal, however it can be used for illegal purposes & that makes it a rather touchy subject & I have been warned by Gizzmoe a couple of times before about this subject & finally I got thrown in the brig!:cry: But boy did I get a shock, and being suspended, even though it was only a few days, was still a frightening experience, the thought of a permanent bann is quite horrifying!:dead: Seth must be suffering withdrawl by now!:lol:
By the way Gizz, i'm a little shakey at even posting this!:oops:
Edit: I just read the thread "A point of order", now I am worried, a very touchy subject!


Not to worry about that m8, many people fix their games so they dont have to change the CD/DVD all the time, or want to keep the CD/DVD in a good state so less chance that at an installation an couple of scratches could ruin the extracting of a file. But however , if you read the forum rules a bit. Subsim has many contacts with developers of games. the Devs dont want to see or know that subsim allows people to talk about what they have done to ''their'' piece of work (the Game ofcourse) it gives this comunity bad name if the mods didnt react to people who talk lightly of what they done to their game that isnt completly legal. (fixes, hacks) etc etc.

the Subsim Members, the mods and the developers ''Dont want to know what you do on your harddrive'' keep that private and dont share it with others on a big community when you know you're doing ''naughty'' things.

HunterICX

[danlisa]

I would like to thank Gizzmoe for making the correct decision, although a hard decision, he has definitely shown himself to be a very balanced/impartial moderator. During this he has obviously weighed the evidence and this coupled with Seth's heartfelt & sincere apology has led to the two week suspension rather than a full ban.

Thank You Gizzmoe:yep: You are a gentleman.

To Seth, I hope you've used this downtime to make some new skins:D , see you soon:sunny:

Dan

[kiwi_2005]

Just one thing if you are permanantly banned couldn't the poster come back under a different name? or would they know with IP adresses. I know most forums can track your cookies so they know where your been just before you enter there site etc., (subsimmers quickly run there cookie cleaner before entering subsim :arrgh!: )

No just asking as theirs no way i would try to come back to this site if i was permanantly banned from it. Except for one! the one where i was banned yet just registered with it the day before. I would probably go down in history as the quickest banning ever! Im still annoyed by the admins discison as i hate be wrongly accused - well dont we all. I never read the sites rules which i should of done, but i reckon that forum must of been riddle in the past with pirates so the admin was a bit touchy with the delete button.

oh well get over it Frank!:rotfl:

[kylania]

Just one thing if you are permanantly banned couldn't the poster come back under a different name? or would they know with IP adresses. I know most forums can track your cookies so they know where your been just before you enter there site etc., (subsimmers quickly run there cookie cleaner before entering subsim

Trying to get around a ban like that would just result in your other account being banned and your IP being blocked.

[The Munster]

:rotfl: Just one thing if you are permanantly banned couldn't the poster come back under a different name? or would they know with IP adresses. I know most forums can track your cookies so they know where your been just before you enter there site etc., (subsimmers quickly run there cookie cleaner before entering subsim :arrgh!: )

No just asking as theirs no way i would try to come back to this site if i was permanantly banned from it. Except for one! the one where i was banned yet just registered with it the day before. I would probably go down in history as the quickest banning ever! Im still annoyed by the admins discison as i hate be wrongly accused - well dont we all. I never read the sites rules which i should of done, but i reckon that forum must of been riddle in the past with pirates so the admin was a bit touchy with the delete button.

oh well get over it Frank!:rotfl:

That 'one day' thing is bugging you isn't it ? Look, I've got some beer in the fridge.. call round and we'll have a chinwag !

[fredbass]

Just one thing if you are permanantly banned couldn't the poster come back under a different name?

Even when someone comes back under another name, it's usually just temporary. They are who they are. There posts will have a similar pattern which will probably end up in a similar situation as b4. So the best way to come back under a different identity is to change your ways otherwise we'll just have another statistic to talk about b4 it's all said and done. :know:

And we don't want Seth to be another statistic, do we. ;)

[The Munster]

In other words, 'a leopard never changes it's spots' [hic !:dead:]

[Steeltrap]

One comment:

"Gizz is a moderator who will earn respect"

I think it's more accurate to say he already has it. (yes, I'm being pedantic, and I'm sure the poster meant Gizz has our respect already)

This is a community. There's no community unless people respect the 'laws'. Now, if the community wants to change the 'law', they petition the 'legislators' (i.e. moderators). They may or may not be successful.

I used to referee rugby union. I regarded a game as a success for me if I did as little as possible (other than get the best view of the game for free....) and the players enjoyed themselves. If players started abusing the trust/respect that should automatically apply when they enter the field, my role was to stop that and penalise the transgressors.

My point (yes, there actually is one....) is that the moderators here are extremely good because we so rarely see them actually DO anything, and when they do they are very much open to approach and prepared to review any decisions.

So :up: :up: to them.

OUR responsibility is to respect the rules. If we're penalised for breaking them, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Ultimately, it's OUR behaviour which drives the degree to which moderators feel compelled to do something. We can make their jobs easy. Do that, and we get respect and very reasonable treatment from them. Abuse the rules, make the moderators jobs a real chore, and they'll (quite rightly) develop itchy trigger fingers.

Here's to a great result all round. The behaviour of our community members, and the way we interact with our moderators, is what sets this forum apart from other 'game' environments.

SUBSIM :rock: :rock: :rock:

(p.s. have I earned a SubSim book yet??)

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Subwolf]

One comment:

"Gizz is a moderator who will earn respect"

I think it's more accurate to say he already has it. (yes, I'm being pedantic, and I'm sure the poster meant Gizz has our respect already)

That poster happens to be me, and what I mean is that there are new members to this forum every day, it's among those Gizzmoe will earn respect. As you say he already got it from us who knows how he works.

[Steeltrap]

One comment:

"Gizz is a moderator who will earn respect"

I think it's more accurate to say he already has it. (yes, I'm being pedantic, and I'm sure the poster meant Gizz has our respect already)

That poster happens to be me, and what I mean is that there are new members to this forum every day, it's among those Gizzmoe will earn respect. As you say he already got it from us who knows how he works.

Subwolf, wasn't having a go....was just using your good comment as a means of introducing my own comments. Hope you don't/didn't feel aggrieved, and my apologies if you do/did.

Cheers

[Subwolf]

No no not at all, I didn't even know that my words were a little hard, sorry.
I just wanted to tell you that I was refering to the new members :yep:

And btw I liked your comments too :up:

[FIREWALL]

Good Grief!!!

Have all of you seen poor Seth's new avatar?:eek:

[AVGWarhawk]

No what is it?

[Gizzmoe]

Good Grief!!!

Have all of you seen poor Seth's new avatar?:eek:

That´s the standard "In the brig" avatar. We already had that in the old forum.

[Gizzmoe]

No what is it?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/brig.gif

[Onkel Neal]

In other words, 'a leopard never changes it's spots' [hic !:dead:]

Lol, actually, I subscribe to the theory that sometimes they do change their spots. I believe a lot of people new to the Radio Room join up and use the typical web forum behavior (confrontation, provocation, excessive hostilty) that they learned on many other forums. In most cases we try to talk it over with the member and give them time to settle in.

[HunterICX]

No what is it?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/brig.gif

Good grief!!!! (HunterICX quikly looks at his own avatar, thank god...)

[AVGWarhawk]

D'oh!!!!!!!!!

[Subwolf]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/brig.gif

Poor Seth, now he is a prisoner behind bars...what an avatar :rotfl:

But making fun of a man who is not able to defend himself, I'm not sure if I really liked this avatar...

[stabiz]

Seth can take it, trust me. :rotfl:

[Subwolf]

I guess a member in the Brig can still read this forum, or are they totally locked out? Bet Gizzmoe can answer that..

[GT182]

He can read it if someone sends it to him by email. ;)

[Subwolf]

Well what I mean is that he could come back in here as a stowaway, read but not register and post, which is possible and allowed in some forums when banned.

But if he can't I'm sure stabiz keeps him updated, right stabiz? :yep:

[GT182]

SW, you're probably right... there are the unregistered that can look and see in here. But the Mod forum is the one they can't get into, so he'd have to get his info from there by email. I guess I was thinking of that. Sorry.

[Rose]

I was just looking at ole' SubSerpent's (RIP) profile, and noticed his avatar was changed from In the Brig to Keelhauled. What's the difference? I'm assuming In the Brig is temporary, while Keelhauled is permanent? Because just yesterday they were the same.

[Subwolf]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/keelhauled.jpg The keelhauled avatar.

No comment...

But you got it right Rose, those who are permanently banned get this avatar. In the brig for those who are temporary banned.

[Rose]

So, uh, when are Seth's two weeks up?

[Gizzmoe]

Next tuesday.

[Subwolf]

Let's hope that he doesn't screw things up again, I got a feeling that this is his very last chance to show that he can behave in here.

Have noticed that Seth has made a donation to subsim.com, but that don't prevent you from ending up keelhauled or suspended if you break the rules here, but maybe you will get an extra chance like he did ;)

[Jusa_Finn]

Best wishes to you Seth. Carry on.

[Takeda Shingen]

You guys are still on about this? Gizz is nicer than I thought, as I would have clanked the lock on this nonsense pages ago.

[Safe-Keeper]

:yep:

No purpose to keep this open. Let it die.

[bookworm_020]

Close the thread, it's done it's dash.:yep:

[HunterICX]

:yep:

No purpose to keep this open. Let it die.

:yep: ''Put a Locker on this Sucker''

:up:

[Tachyon]

It takes a lot of nerve for someone to admit a mistake, such ppl should be forgiven...better than those who are unrepentant. I cant believe some1 got banned for admitting he downloaded illegal stuff.

<Mod. edit Nobody... especially me, likes a smarta$$. JCC>



Guess i was just kidding

[kylania]

I cant believe some1 got banned for admitting he downloaded illegal stuff.

You should probably take some time to read the rules of this forum than.

[danlisa]

Yes, lock the thread:D

Then on Tuesday, we'll start the 'Welcome back, Seth" thread.:rotfl:

[Sir Big Jugs]

I'm just soo jealous of people with the "Keelhauled" avatar!!!:damn::damn::damn:

[HunterICX]

It takes a lot of nerve for someone to admit a mistake, such ppl should be forgiven...better than those who are unrepentant. I cant believe some1 got banned for admitting he downloaded illegal stuff.

<Mod. edit Nobody... especially me, likes a smarta$$. JCC>



Guess i was just kidding

Lets all open our hearts and tell the truth shall we?

I'll say that its just the matter of keeping you Hard Drive Private for urself not to be shared on communities. whatever you do...and you know you are doing wrong...dont post it. especialy when a community has connections with Developers of games.

HunterICX