The Seawolves conclusion

[Subwolf]

Agreed that the other thread had to be closed, it was about to turn ugly.

I also understand and respect other opinions about this as long as it is based on facts. There is a general suspicion against Combat Planes or X1 for including freeware mods in their payware products without the authors permission, and I have learned that a U.S online store has removed the products because of this.

But the different opinions about how serious these accusations are remains, and I want to leave it there.

Anyway, I went thru some of Kapt.Lehmann's posts regarding GWX, and as far as I can see this freeware product and the X1 products got more or less the same content. Then the choice is easy of course, better to wait for GWX then to buy it from someone outside the community.

I am very impressed by the work done for free by the GWX-team, and I am a little surprised that they don't want to charge anything for it, I got no problem paying $30 for such a great product. But if they don't want the money it can be donated to subsim.com instead.

Finally I really hope that other subsimmers who asks a question about the X1 products are treated with respect. As Gizzmoe said, anything else is unfair. Remember that many of them are not even aware of its dubious history.

[stabiz]

I agree.

[HunterICX]

:hmm: I can only guess if we keep getting on flaming the hell out of SW/BITM threads it will never stop.

I have red a lot about the content of these 2 products and my opinion about it is that it smells. It's a dirty work to do things without permission.

the other thread is indeed closes because of the flame war going around to eachother wich should never happen in the first place, everyone has its meaning but on this subject most of the senior subsim.com members know what its all about. trust me, most of them dont just scream its a big pile of horsecrap that they stole from them.

Now, whoever bought this product well, fine. It doesnt really matter to me. If they need help, fine. but it would be better for those people not to mention SW or BITM in their help request so people do not start to flame them. And the people shouldnt start to flame the guys who bought the pack actually. because there are things you musnt forget that people who bought it could have

-not the internet speed to download a big mod
-not the knowledge of where to get it from
-not the knowledge what the content is from and that it is taken without permission.

we should I think change our way of handling these people that require help, flaming them isnt going to help them nor us, and at the end it will end up in an hard debate about what is right , legal, illegal, stolen, fake. and then Gizzmoe has to close the thread that has been done a couple of times before with similar subjects.

So if someone asks for help the next time , please leave your personal meaning about it out of it. if you know how to help the fella please do if not ''dont reply''

HunterICX

[sergbuto]

I also understand and respect other opinions about this as long as it is based on facts. There is a general suspicion against Combat Planes or X1 for including freeware mods in their payware products without the authors permission, and I have learned that a U.S online store has removed the products because of this.

It is not a suspicion. Examples of mods taken and sold without author permission are clearly identified both for SW and UBIMD and it is even described how anyone can check that. See for example, this thread concerning their UBIMD or SW-Med release
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97553

There was also an official investigation by Subsim staff into this matter before the first SW release when it was concluded that it is a scam.

[Wulfmann]

On the closed SW thread kylania asked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmann
The very first act of theft occurred when members here illegally downloaded X-1 files from an unsecured site (if you don’t lock the door stealing is OK?) of everything they had long before any release or any formulation of what they would make as their first expansion.
So, when some free mods showed up on the first expansion (technically owned by UBI so legit for X-1 to use anyway) it was in fact what goes around comes around.

Are you trying to say that Grey Wolves and other mods that found their way into the Seawolves "product" were in fact stolen from X1's "storehouse of expansions we just don't know what to do with" then released as free mods?

I never said or inferred that in any way and consider your observation either ignorant or intentionally provocative.

GW and NYGM most certainly never took anything nor have any of the freeware makers from either SW project.
What I said and you have twisted is that all this started by an act of this freeware community of stealing X-1 stuff and turned around and cried thieves.
Hypocrites, IMO and no better than X-1.
The reason for stealing the X-1 files was to see if freeware mods were in them and that was justification to commit an illegal act
I know from beta testing the SW Med they were way too busy to intentionally steal from the community but often used available stuff unintentionally and when I recognized it and mentioned it that stuff was removed.
They were paying modders for their work, many that made stuff for SW and then offered the same mods here and that some have been used in freeware mods
But, the arrogant few here ride such a high horse they only believe what they want and how they want it and having any view that is not in line with theirs is treason to their greatness.

The bottom line is UBI owns all the files and rights to them and has only given X-1/Combat Planes permission to make a SH3 add on.
So, had they wanted X-1 could have used anything they wanted but did not. Frankly, with all the BS thrown around here if I were them I would take all the various freeware files and package them into a payware add on just to annoy the whiners.
They are being accused of it why not just do it?
Hmmmmm, maybe I will suggest that to them so your accusations have real merit?
Imagine GWX copied the next day and offered for sale as an X-1 product. They could even have Seawolves imposed over GW so you could see the GW behind it faintly just so all here would know the results of their constant crying.
I must admit some people here make for a lot of fun in ridiculous observations of human behavior. Some here may think this stuff angers me but I must confess I am usually laughing at the level some have sunk all while thinking they are riding high.

Truth is if never a SW thread was ever started here again we would all be better off.
This has been one of the finest games ever made and has had some of the best free mods done for a game as well but is tainted by the competition to see who can be more ridiculous in childish behavior.
That includes everyone that ever posted on this subject, yes everyone.

Wulfmann

[kylania]

I never said or inferred that in any way and consider your observation either ignorant or intentionally provocative.
I wasn't trying to provoke anything but an honest answer of who used code from whom.

You admit that X-1 files were downloaded before their product was released:

The very first act of theft occurred when members here illegally downloaded X-1 files from an unsecured site (if you don’t lock the door stealing is OK?) of everything they had long before any release or any formulation of what they would make as their first expansion.


You admit that files from free mods by other authors were used as part of the X-1 product:

So, when some free mods showed up on the first expansion (technically owned by UBI so legit for X-1 to use anyway) it was in fact what goes around comes around.


You justify this use of others work by X-1 by stating that only X-1 is licensed by UbiSoft to make modifications to SH3 files.

So my question was this:

Which came first, community work used by X-1 or X-1's work downloaded by the community which then re-appeared in X-1's product?

Was your reference to "what goes around comes around" referring to:

A) X-1 used other peoples works since some people had downloaded code from X-1 before the product came out. X-1's products are based on community work because they are the only ones licensed to actually do so and therefore can use any files/work based on SH3 as a licensee.

or

B) Community work was based on code downloaded from X-1 so therefore X-1 used other peoples work in their product. X-1's products include uncredited community work because the community, or portions thereof, downloaded X-1's work previously.

As far as I can tell X-1 used other peoples code and work under the excuse of "we're licensed and you're not". Am I wrong?

[SteamWake]

Agreed that the other thread had to be closed, it was about to turn ugly.

So you started another one ? :shifty:

This particular topic always ends up in flames.

[Dowly]

Agreed that the other thread had to be closed, it was about to turn ugly.
So you started another one ? :shifty:

This particular topic always ends up in flames.

Amen.

[HunterICX]

Agreed that the other thread had to be closed, it was about to turn ugly.
So you started another one ? :shifty:

This particular topic always ends up in flames.

Amen.

Put a locker on this sucker please:stare:
before it goes out of hand again

[Wulfmann]

Agreed that the other thread had to be closed, it was about to turn ugly.
So you started another one ? :shifty:

This particular topic always ends up in flames.
Amen.
Put a locker on this sucker please:stare:
before it goes out of hand again

Amen!!!

Wulfmann

[Gizzmoe]

Ok. Thread closed.