View Full Version : How comfortable do you feel?
waste gate
11-03-06, 10:04 PM
Six Arab states join rush to go nuclear.
Given the militancy displayed in the last few years does this cause any concern?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2436948,00.html
Ducimus
11-03-06, 10:29 PM
How comfortable? The only feeling i get is a sense of fatalism. I wonder how long we have until a small nuclear device is detonated in one of our cities. I dont think its a question of IF.. but WHEN. I really don't think we can stop them, and we really have no NBC defense to speak of.
Its only a metter of WHEN if the way the West keeps treating the Middle East stays the same. Its obvious that we aren't doing a very good job of keeping tensions down. Especially gieven the way the invasion of Iraq has been perceived (like the West will invade any nation it pleases). We don't exactly reach out to them like they're equals. We've been stripping them of their sovereignty since we pushed back the explosion of Islam in the Middle Ages.
Our foreign policy is obviously completely wrong. And since most of the Western world is locked up in Afghanistan and Iraq I can't see another occupation being realistic. So we play the bully and we can't back it up there isn't gonna be anyway to keep most nations that want a nuke from getting one. Sanctions won't work either cause you bully the wrong nation and Opec will have us wishing for last year's gas prices.
I'm not that uncomfortable. What another sovereign nation having a nuke has to do with terrorists beats me. Russia has already lost track of enough and North Korea already has one so if anyone's is gonna sell the technology it would be them. And since the US already ignored a nuke into Kimmy's hands I think we're WAY past being any less comfortable.
CNN might start saying something spooky but the truth has been there for a while.
Its high time we stop being scared of these savage nations and start being smart. Being the big bad boys from the developed world isn't gonna do anything.
The only thing that I really fear is when another politician is going to tell me that we can't afford my rights because of a theoretical threat with no defined variables has been picked up on by the major news sources.
Hmmm....
Enough of them get nukes, they may just nuke each other instead of us. :hmm:
Hmmm....
Enough of them get nukes, they may just nuke each other instead of us. :hmm: There is no "each other". The US or Russia or China or India or somebody else has an agenda and is pulling strings (or is trying) behind the scenes. There is a constant interest somewhere in that region for someone who ought not to be buggering around in someone elses back yard. No one can deny that that was the case in the cold war (it was obvious) but the cold war isn't really over other than Soviet Russia blinked and we all started t believe that it was over.
World powers are always dicking around in the undeveloped or underdeveloped world trying to con someone out of something and create a proxy this to fight that and secure some economic interests here and blah blah.
No offense to Israel but why do you think that Britain and the US supported the creation (and still do) of Israel? Not cause of guilt or the Jewish right to a homeland but primariy because of the need for a new foothold in the middle east after the collapse of the British Empire. That the Jews were victimized and deserved something is like Iraqis being "liberated" by the invasion. Its all just a selling point.
Sorry to sound so cynical and I don't mean to offend any Jews or Iraelis here but no one cares about Israel other than Israelis, not in the upper echelons of Western Power, except for where it benefits them or their interests (be it national or personal or corporate or whatever else).
They nuke "each other" and it'll escalate into something world wide. Every major economic power has interests in the Middle East and no one is going to trash that garden cause it feeds the whole world right now.
We're worried about some crazy arabs controlling nukes but think of all the crazy Russians that have or had control. Think of all the personal interests involved in the decayed and obscenely corrupt Soviet Union.
The only thing new about all these fears we're obcessed with today is our awareness of them.
The Noob
11-04-06, 06:19 AM
Everyone has bombs, counterbombs and counter-counter-bombs. One day it had to get out of controle. The insane idea of Holding peace by Firepower, by weapons wich you can't use for defense without commiting suicide. Totall madness.
We can only hope that the urge to survive overpowers the urge to control the world and via destroying the world deny control to our enemies.
But if you think about it the people who are threatening our existance are as much our leaders as they are the other guy's. By promising to destroy the Soviet Union we promised to destroy ourselves. I don't care how bad Stalin was, denying humanity its existance because we didn't want the "Commies" to run things is as insane as anything the other side was spewing.
Even if the Cold War was about controlling the world there was another very fatalistic and apocalyptic level that dominated the mindset of both sides. Somehow in the ever changing opera of human history we forgot that our time under the lime light is as fickle as any other's. Somehow we were ready to deny the Human Race it's future for the petty and forgettable specifics of the ideologies of the day. A half dozen men were ready at any one time to sacrifice the world for the entire race.
So what does all that have to do with Egypt and Algeria and the rest of the spooky arab world wanting nukes? Its all our fault if the world comes to an end. But more specifically, its all our fault if the proliferation of nuclear arms extends wholesale through the Middle East.
Who is we? Well just about anyone who has had any say in the way things work for the last... 2000 years. Waddaya know they're all white (mostly). We have been buggering around in the Middle East for centuries and, particularly in the last 100 years, we have been going so far over the line that today we are seeing the full grown Western Resentment lead to all kinds of hatred almost all directed at the West. When it isn't directed at the West its usually because OF the West. We decided to plop Israel into the middle of things and just displace an entire people without a home for them so carelessly. We denied Sovereignty to so many tribes in so many ways and drew them together and apart so many times that we have countries like Iraq that are just migled and massed together in a great bunch of non-white peoples (they're all the same right?) that hate each other. We have used middle eastern nations against their neighbours for our gains and fought proxy wars by supporting dictators. We have used natiosn there against each other so much we think its just normal to intervene how we please.
Now they want nukes. Why? Because we have nukes and we say "no you can't decide what to do with your nation because WE HAVE THE NUKES". So how does a nation or a party or a terrorist group become credible? It gets a nuke because nukes are the political currency that buys you a seat at the table. And who gives them nukes? We do. Because we have chosen not to seek to undo the threat we created but to use it against our enemies because we are so righteous.
If it all goes off in a big mushroom cloud its because we didn't let THEM join the party. If it doesn't go off we just have a bigger stalemate that was begun after we apparently destroyed the worst Regime in the world. We killed the Nazis and then decided to destroy the world if our "allies" got any ideas.
So am I comfortable? Sure, because this is all an abstract dream and if a nuke falls on my city at least I won't feel it. Better than watching it all crumble.
TteFAboB
11-04-06, 08:19 AM
Uncomfortable? Only if they can send it across the ocean, so that's some port security, coastal security and Mexican border security for you. If Iran can get away with it everybody else will want one too to avoid being hostage to Iran or to join in with Khamenei.
I just thought I'd say it before someone else does, bout time I had my anti-ME moment for the year ;)
It seems that nuclear weapons, and nuclear technology itself is being made available on a wide market, it probably won't be long before Columbia is sporting ICBMs of all places. Then it's DEFCON time, when the person with the best missile defence wins....but then, what can a missile defence do against a dirty bomb?
The only defence against nuclear war lies in human nature....
I'm confident... :damn: :shifty:
ASWnut101
11-04-06, 08:28 AM
Yes, that makes sence, Obernon, but come on. a dirty bomb.
dirtybomb=worthless, just to scare you
Its mainly the fact that the dirtybomb spreads radiation that freaks people out the most. but they are actually are pretty worthless. all it is a some sort of radioactive dust or aerosol attached to a block of high-ex. They are ment to scare, not kill mass amounts of people. Where do you live? unless its in downtown manhattan or a place like that, you should have no worries about a DB attack.
Well....I live not far from the biggest dirty bomb of them all:
http://www.bized.co.uk/images/sizewell.jpg
But I've long since stopped worrying about that going up, there's more chance of seeing Elvis.
But no, admittedly a DB is a pretty low grade weapon designed mainly for the 'terror' aspect...but then again, isn't that what terrorists are good at? I mean, imagine the panic and hysteria? God alone knows what the media would make of it.
ASWnut101
11-04-06, 02:15 PM
more like what HAVE they made it. they dramatize. "oh no, a dirty bomb will kill off all of the North East US! Run and Hide!"
I would have absoulutally no problem living close to a nuke-P.plant. Pretty cool. maby the fish by that lake glow green at night......:hmm: :hmm: :lol:
The Avon Lady
11-04-06, 02:36 PM
No offense to Israel but why do you think that Britain and the US supported the creation (and still do) of Israel? Not cause of guilt or the Jewish right to a homeland but primariy because of the need for a new foothold in the middle east after the collapse of the British Empire. That the Jews were victimized and deserved something is like Iraqis being "liberated" by the invasion. Its all just a selling point.
Hogwash on all points, both regarding Israel and Iraq.
waste gate
11-04-06, 02:57 PM
P_Funk wrote:
If it all goes off in a big mushroom cloud its because we didn't let THEM join the party.
They are part of the UN aren't they? Isn't that being part of the party?
Sailor Steve
11-04-06, 05:43 PM
P_Funk wrote:
[quote]If it all goes off in a big mushroom cloud its because we didn't let THEM join the party.
Of course anything bad that happens is all our fault. Any positive solutions, or just more finger-pointing?
No offense to Israel but why do you think that Britain and the US supported the creation (and still do) of Israel? Not cause of guilt or the Jewish right to a homeland but primariy because of the need for a new foothold in the middle east after the collapse of the British Empire. That the Jews were victimized and deserved something is like Iraqis being "liberated" by the invasion. Its all just a selling point. Hogwash on all points, both regarding Israel and Iraq. Yes I'm sure that as the Big world powers were carving up the world again after WW2 they didn't see a distinct advantage in having a friendly power in the middle of the Middle East. Israel has its own ideas but that doesn't mean that the other guys fighting for you aren't thinking more strategically. And if i recall correctly when the US invaded Iraq they didnt once mention Iraqi's freedom primarily as a reason to go. They were on about WMDs and when that turned into a joke they went for the humanitarian card and said "but they're free right?" "for however it turned out at least the evil distator isn't in charge anymore (the guy WE supported for decades)"
Whatever the case for Israel having its own nation and for however much that people were sympathetic Israel never would have survived without direct Western support. With the Cold War building a friendly outpost is everything they wanted. You can talk about Irael's sovereignty all you like but that is separate from what was the real discussion in the halls of power.
Israel has American arms and flies American planes because it is supported by the American Industrial Complex. And what isn't given to Israel directly via arms (like F-16s) is given in terms of tax dollars from the US to fund the creation of more climate specific arms. And that's all documented. During the recent conflict in Lebanon the US shipped an emergency supply of munitions to Israel. Israel can't make war nor can it "defend itself" without direct US support. And the US doesn't just feed a nation in the other end of the planet for no reason. And since Israel isn't a massive economic giant what does Israel offer the US? That doesn't mean Israel is a pawn but it means that the US wants to use them as it uses many other nations.
P_Funk wrote:
Quote:
If it all goes off in a big mushroom cloud its because we didn't let THEM join the party.
They are part of the UN aren't they? Isn't that being part of the party?
No thats not it. Being in the UN meansnothing for sovereinty. The US and other powers routinely block the UN's ability to function as an equalizer.
Of course anything bad that happens is all our fault. Any positive solutions, or just more finger-pointing? Wel if we can't recognize the fact that since we have been the influencial powers in the world since the beginning and that we've been interfering in the Middle East for as long as we've been able to and that everything isn't going so well and that the nuclear arms that we fear were created by us how can it not be our fault? We saw the terrible might of nuclear arms and decided the best thing to do was prepare foe an apocalypse. Since the fall of the Societ Union we haven't tried to limit nukes but to only limit who has them and that of course creates an unnatural imbalance of power that any lesser power which wants to be recognized as sovereign needs to be taken seriously. And we continually pollute and pervert the course of social and political development in the middle east. So is it our fault they bloody hate us so much? Yes. But if we think we're stilll the righteous civilized ones then we're compunding the problem.
Part of being positive is recognizing how we're screwing up and actually hurting ourselves. Positivity and Negativity are all perceived. What matters is whether its constructive. And since we keep making things worse I can't think that criticizing our long term conduct is a bad thing.
No offense to Israel but why do you think that Britain and the US supported the creation (and still do) of Israel? Not cause of guilt or the Jewish right to a homeland but primariy because of the need for a new foothold in the middle east after the collapse of the British Empire. That the Jews were victimized and deserved something is like Iraqis being "liberated" by the invasion. Its all just a selling point. Hogwash on all points, both regarding Israel and Iraq. Yes I'm sure that as the Big world powers were carving up the world again after WW2 they didn't see a distinct advantage in having a friendly power in the middle of the Middle East. Israel has its own ideas but that doesn't mean that the other guys fighting for you aren't thinking more strategically. And if i recall correctly when the US invaded Iraq they didnt once mention Iraqi's freedom primarily as a reason to go. They were on about WMDs and when that turned into a joke they went for the humanitarian card and said "but they're free right?" "for however it turned out at least the evil distator isn't in charge anymore (the guy WE supported for decades)"
Whatever the case for Israel having its own nation and for however much that people were sympathetic Israel never would have survived without direct Western support. With the Cold War building a friendly outpost is everything they wanted. You can talk about Irael's sovereignty all you like but that is separate from what was the real discussion in the halls of power.
Israel has American arms and flies American planes because it is supported by the American Industrial Complex. And what isn't given to Israel directly via arms (like F-16s) is given in terms of tax dollars from the US to fund the creation of more climate specific arms. And that's all documented. During the recent conflict in Lebanon the US shipped an emergency supply of munitions to Israel. Israel can't make war nor can it "defend itself" without direct US support. And the US doesn't just feed a nation in the other end of the planet for no reason. And since Israel isn't a massive economic giant what does Israel offer the US? That doesn't mean Israel is a pawn but it means that the US wants to use them as it uses many other nations.
P_Funk wrote:
Quote:
If it all goes off in a big mushroom cloud its because we didn't let THEM join the party.
They are part of the UN aren't they? Isn't that being part of the party?
No thats not it. Being in the UN meansnothing for sovereinty. The US and other powers routinely block the UN's ability to function as an equalizer.
Of course anything bad that happens is all our fault. Any positive solutions, or just more finger-pointing? Wel if we can't recognize the fact that since we have been the influencial powers in the world since the beginning and that we've been interfering in the Middle East for as long as we've been able to and that everything isn't going so well and that the nuclear arms that we fear were created by us how can it not be our fault? We saw the terrible might of nuclear arms and decided the best thing to do was prepare foe an apocalypse. Since the fall of the Societ Union we haven't tried to limit nukes but to only limit who has them and that of course creates an unnatural imbalance of power that any lesser power which wants to be recognized as sovereign needs to be taken seriously. And we continually pollute and pervert the course of social and political development in the middle east. So is it our fault they bloody hate us so much? Yes. But if we think we're stilll the righteous civilized ones then we're compunding the problem.
Part of being positive is recognizing how we're screwing up and actually hurting ourselves. Positivity and Negativity are all perceived. What matters is whether its constructive. And since we keep making things worse I can't think that criticizing our long term conduct is a bad thing.
Dude...you are really showing your age now...most people here have children almost your age.What your spewing about Israel is a lot of nonsense and rethoric? is it? ...first time I have ever used that word or have it come to my mind but reading your posts here that word comes to my mind or non-sense...however I do respect you opinions I just wonder where or how you arrive at some of your conclusions...
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts?
The Avon Lady
11-05-06, 04:04 AM
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts?
""Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
- Tawfik Hamid, former member of Egypt's Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, trained under Ayman al-Zawahiri, Hot for martyrdom (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920).
Wake up, world!
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts?
""Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
- Tawfik Hamid, former member of Egypt's Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, trained under Ayman al-Zawahiri, Hot for martyrdom (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920).
Wake up, world!
:up: :lost: :help: :|\\ :lurk:
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts? ""Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
- Tawfik Hamid, former member of Egypt's Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, trained under Ayman al-Zawahiri, Hot for martyrdom (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920).
Wake up, world! I thought we were talking about States seeking nuclear technology and not some misinformed and misguided youths that want to die. And even Osama Bin laden has reasons beyond martyrdom for 9/11 despite the motives of his diciples. That's a nice quote. It's too bad that it is a bit off topic. So if you're going to try and shut my naive point of view down could you at least do it on topic?
The Avon Lady
11-06-06, 01:33 AM
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts? ""Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
- Tawfik Hamid, former member of Egypt's Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, trained under Ayman al-Zawahiri, Hot for martyrdom (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920).
Wake up, world! I thought we were talking about States seeking nuclear technology and not some misinformed and misguided youths that want to die. And even Osama Bin laden has reasons beyond martyrdom for 9/11 despite the motives of his diciples. That's a nice quote. It's too bad that it is a bit off topic. So if you're going to try and shut my naive point of view down could you at least do it on topic?
It's no less off-topic than your comment I was replying to. These are called tangents, FYI. And, in fact, I believe it's all right on topic when dealing with what so terrible about light bulbs being powered by nuclear reactors in Cairo, Tripoli and Damascus.
As for what you just stated, these aren't "some misinformed and misguided youths". They're of all ages and they're accurately carrying out what mujhadin have carried out since Mohamed's time. What other reasons, not for the sake of Allah, would you like to attribute to Bin Laden? Indulge us.
Well if you are implying that bin Laden is just some cook with a hard on for martyrdom and has no particular reason for wanting to wage war on the US you must be underestimating the leaders of these terrorist organizatons. The henchmen might be mindless drones on a collision course with paradise but the leaders are not so simple minded.
bin Laden has stated in pre 9/11 interviews and other forms of.. I guess we can them press releases that it is at least partly the US's use of Saudi Arabia as a way station for invading Iraq in 91. He is Saudi and obviously has issue with what he sees as America eroding the independant interests of his nation. That's just one I can think of off the top of my head. I believe that might have been expressed in an interview he had with Robert Fisk in the 90s sometime. Off in a cave somewhere.
How can you seriously believe that the masterminds of world terrorism haven't got any reason why they want to destroy the Western world? These are educated men very often who have worked for the US at one time or another or have somehow else become outraged by what they perceive as an invasion of the Islamic world.
Osama bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and was trained by the CIA. He didn't just dream up some imaginary hatred.
HunterICX
11-06-06, 11:53 AM
:hmm: How comfortable I feel?
Not at all because no matter wich country , its just the matter that there are nukes on this planet:stare:
The Avon Lady
11-06-06, 12:18 PM
Well if you are implying that bin Laden is just some cook with a hard on for martyrdom and has no particular reason for wanting to wage war on the US you must be underestimating the leaders of these terrorist organizatons. The henchmen might be mindless drones on a collision course with paradise but the leaders are not so simple minded.
bin Laden has stated in pre 9/11 interviews and other forms of.. I guess we can them press releases that it is at least partly the US's use of Saudi Arabia as a way station for invading Iraq in 91. He is Saudi and obviously has issue with what he sees as America eroding the independant interests of his nation. That's just one I can think of off the top of my head. I believe that might have been expressed in an interview he had with Robert Fisk in the 90s sometime. Off in a cave somewhere.
As I said, this is for the sake of Allah.
How can you seriously believe that the masterminds of world terrorism haven't got any reason why they want to destroy the Western world?
I never said they don't have a reason. I clearly said it is for the sake of Allah.
These are educated men very often who have worked for the US at one time or another or have somehow else become outraged by what they perceive as an invasion of the Islamic world.
And therefore their courses of action are done for the sake of Allah.
Osama bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and was trained by the CIA. He didn't just dream up some imaginary hatred.
I never said so. It is all for the sake of Allah.
I discern a pattern here. :roll:
Osama bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and was trained by the CIA. He didn't just dream up some imaginary hatred.
bin Laden was not trained by the CIA.
fredbass
11-06-06, 12:45 PM
How concerned am I?
Well anytime more people have the capability to use them, the greater the risk becomes. But I'm most uncomfortable about the countries which seem to support radical extremism like Iran etc.
The Avon Lady
11-06-06, 01:35 PM
Osama bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and was trained by the CIA. He didn't just dream up some imaginary hatred.
bin Laden was not trained by the CIA.
:yep: :up:
Sorry I let that slip.
"The story about bin Laden and the CIA -- that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden -- is simply a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently.
The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him."
- Peter Bergen, CNN, Bin Laden, CIA links hogwash, August 15, 2006
tycho102
11-06-06, 01:45 PM
dirtybomb=worthless, just to scare you
unless its in downtown manhattan or a place like that, you should have no worries about a DB attack.
It'll shut down the economy, whether it's Hollywood, Seattle, Houston, Chicago, Tulsa, St. Louis, Akron, or Orlando. If one ever hits, you're going to find your life significantly disrupted because of it. It won't anything like the New Orleans cleanup job.
You will have longer waits at your local hospital, gas prices will be higher, electricity will cost more, your local police station will start evacuation drills that you will be participating in whether you "choose" to or not.
I personally think it would be the best thing for the entire nation if Hollywood caught one. It would rattle the social structure, not to even mention our financial structure, and put California onto a survival priority system. New York was nothing -- the financial sector picked up the slack, and there was virtually no social upheval involved.
Wait until Sopranos, Survivor, American Idol, and Brad and Jennifer are out. There would be people gnashing their teeth and lamenting their lack of prime-time television. Hollywood is out "greatest" assest, and our greatest weakness. I think the moslems know it, but up till lately have considered it in their best interest to let Hollywood function as an ally.
:hmm: How comfortable I feel?
Not at all because no matter wich country , its just the matter that there are nukes on this planet:stare:
Yes thats the real problem. Amazing how few there are here that understand the question that way. And if that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, I think you miss something essential.
Cheers Porphy
Well if you are implying that bin Laden is just some cook with a hard on for martyrdom and has no particular reason for wanting to wage war on the US you must be underestimating the leaders of these terrorist organizatons. The henchmen might be mindless drones on a collision course with paradise but the leaders are not so simple minded.
bin Laden has stated in pre 9/11 interviews and other forms of.. I guess we can them press releases that it is at least partly the US's use of Saudi Arabia as a way station for invading Iraq in 91. He is Saudi and obviously has issue with what he sees as America eroding the independant interests of his nation. That's just one I can think of off the top of my head. I believe that might have been expressed in an interview he had with Robert Fisk in the 90s sometime. Off in a cave somewhere. As I said, this is for the sake of Allah.
How can you seriously believe that the masterminds of world terrorism haven't got any reason why they want to destroy the Western world? I never said they don't have a reason. I clearly said it is for the sake of Allah.
These are educated men very often who have worked for the US at one time or another or have somehow else become outraged by what they perceive as an invasion of the Islamic world. And therefore their courses of action are done for the sake of Allah.
Osama bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and was trained by the CIA. He didn't just dream up some imaginary hatred. I never said so. It is all for the sake of Allah.
I discern a pattern here. :roll:
I discern a a pattern indeed. One of gross generalization and oversimplification. Does that mean that all Americans who believe in god fight for him in Iraq? And do all Israeli's fight simply for their religion as well? Are there no more secular and tangible motivations behind any religious people's behavior?
The Avon Lady
11-06-06, 04:05 PM
I discern a a pattern indeed. One of gross generalization and oversimplification.
It is the foundation stone for all of Bin Laden's reasoning and he's consistant.
Does that mean that all Americans who believe in god fight for him in Iraq?
No. I never said so either.
And do all Israeli's fight simply for their religion as well?
No, though I can tell you that the very religious one's most certainly do.
Are there no more secular and tangible motivations behind any religious people's behavior?
In Islam and to a similar degree in Judaism, no, assuming the person is truly devout and performs every act in life "for the sake of Heaven."
ASWnut101
11-06-06, 05:34 PM
dirtybomb=worthless, just to scare you
unless its in downtown manhattan or a place like that, you should have no worries about a DB attack.
It'll shut down the economy, whether it's Hollywood, Seattle, Houston, Chicago, Tulsa, St. Louis, Akron, or Orlando. If one ever hits, you're going to find your life significantly disrupted because of it. It won't anything like the New Orleans cleanup job.
You will have longer waits at your local hospital, gas prices will be higher, electricity will cost more, your local police station will start evacuation drills that you will be participating in whether you "choose" to or not.
yes, true indeed. But then you can just move to the Falklands. Thats where im off to if the world gets bad.:yep: (true, by the way)
I personally think it would be the best thing for the entire nation if Hollywood caught one. It would rattle the social structure, not to even mention our financial structure, and put California onto a survival priority system. New York was nothing -- the financial sector picked up the slack, and there was virtually no social upheval involved.
I agree with you 100%:up:
Wait until Sopranos, Survivor, American Idol, and Brad and Jennifer are out.
heh, not like I care about them, anyway.:)
The Avon Lady
11-07-06, 12:09 AM
But then you can just move to the Falklands. Thats where im off to if the world gets bad.:yep: (true, by the way)
True story: In the 70's, a US professor panicked that a US-USSR nuclear war was imminent. He and his family sat down with a world atlas to chose the safest location in the world to move to. They moved to the Falklands. :damn:
Sailor Steve
11-07-06, 12:05 PM
That sounds just like James Michener's story (also true) of the French vintner who, appalled at the damage sustained by his country in the First World War, moved his family to the most remote French holding he could find-Guadalcanal.
ASWnut101
11-07-06, 03:17 PM
whats so bad about the falklands? (im not crazy, btw)
I'd love to live where there are more sheep than people and where the worlds best sniper school is.:smug:
Sailor Steve
11-07-06, 08:58 PM
They moved there in the late '70s...just in time for the 1982 war.:know:
ASWnut101
11-07-06, 09:06 PM
:p :lol: :lol: :p :p :rotfl:
kiwi_2005
11-07-06, 11:56 PM
Safest place on earth from a nuclear war is the himilaylas or anywhere in the tibetian mountains. Only place on earth where the slipstream is not like anyother. One of the reasons china so much want control of tibet. Im talking about the aftermath - when the days are covered in darkness, tibet would be the only place still waking up to the sun.
I wonder how people so much older than me could be so naive about the motives of their nations. Not that I have contempt. But what happened in the last 100 years that suddenly cused the political and military leaders of the world's nations to become such honest boy scouts?
If thats realy your age, then... http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/b262.gif
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