Australian Muslims Outrage at Reporting of "Raw Meat" Comments (Merged)

[Dan D]

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7003/1014papstprovoziertcb2.jpg
Hitler Youth member Pope is about to visit Turkey:
"Shalom, goosefu...ers" (Seig Hiel!).

Next stop: Isreal (with French accent).

Hattip: Titanic Magazin

[Skybird]

1. Ratzinger became a HJ member late in the war, because it was compulsory. Neither he nor his family were Nazis or sympathizers with Hitler. All biographies about him, as far as I have heared of them, seem to agree that his family was opposed to the Nazis. He himself says these two points, too.

2. When you really want to lower yourself to the niveau of the Titanic magazine (the magazine exists, but if the titel on the photo is true or fake I do not know), then at least write correct German, it is not "Seig Hiel", but "Sieg Heil".

This constant bashing from Ratzingerphobics by trying to push Ratzinger into the Nazi corner becomes tiresome. If you disagree with his policies, say so and explain. Instead simply throwing mud is for Neandertal men.

[Coda]

I fail to see any humor, or reason, for this post.

[HunterICX]

:huh: eh...whats that? it didnt made me laugh and didnt even gave me a smile...what in earths name means that.

[bradclark1]

This constant bashing from Ratzingerphobics by trying to push Ratzinger into the Nazi corner becomes tiresome. If you disagree with his policies, say so and explain. Instead simply throwing mud is for Neandertal men.
I think it's just a case of pulling the tail. Nothing to get upset about, I think.

[The Noob]

Ratzinger is no nazi. What do you want to tell me next, Guenter Grass is nazi? That would be the same BS.

I don't care what Ratzinger does (Atheist) but he should take care what he says.

[CB..]

he's one of the shiney happy papal

[The Avon Lady]

What do you want to tell me next, Guenter Grass is nazi?
He was one and is a fat liar, phony and hypocrite.
Disclosure of Waffen-SS Membership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass#Disclosure_of_Waffen-SS_Membership)

On 12 August 2006, in an interview [1] about his forthcoming book While Skinning the Onion, Grass stated that he had been a member of the Waffen-SS. Before this interview, Grass was seen as someone who had been a typical member of the "Flakhelfer generation", one of those too young to see much fighting or to be involved with the Nazi regime in any way beyond its youth organizations.

On August 15, 2006, the online edition of "Der Spiegel", "Spiegel Online", published three documents from US forces dating from 1946, verifying Grass's Waffen-SS membership. [2].

After an unsuccessful attempt to volunteer for the U-Boat fleet at age 15, Grass was conscripted into the Reichsarbeitsdienst, and then called up for the Waffen-SS in 1944. He was trained as a tank gunner and fought with the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg until its surrender to US forces at Marienbad. At that point of the war, youths could be conscripted into the Waffen-SS instead of the army; this was unrelated to membership of the SS proper. Grass said [3]:

"It happened as it did to many of my age. We were in the labour service and all at once, a year later, the call-up notice lay on the table. And only when I got to Dresden did I learn it was the Waffen-SS."
Many have come to Grass' defense based upon the fact the Waffen-SS membership was very early in Grass' life. For example, novelist John Irving has come to the defence of Grass and criticised those who would dismiss the achievements of a lifetime because of a mistake made as a teenager.[4] However, as Grass has for many decades been an outspoken left-leaning critic of Germany's treatment of its Nazi past, his statement caused a great stir in the press. Grass's biographer Michael Jürgs spoke of "the end of a moral institution" [4]. Lech Wałęsa had initially criticized Grass [5] for keeping silent about his SS membership for 60 years but in a couple of days had publicly withdrawn his criticism after reading the letter of Grass to the mayor of Gdańsk[6] and admitted that Grass "set the good example for the others". Joachim Fest, conservative German journalist, historian and biographer of Adolf Hitler, told the German weekly "Der Spiegel" about "progressive and left-wing" Grass' disclosement:

"After 60 years, this confession comes a bit too late. I can't understand how someone who for decades set himself up as a moral authority, a rather smug one, could pull this off."[5]
Rolf Hochhuth said it was "disgusting" that this same Grass, "politically correctly", had publicly criticized Helmut Kohl and Ronald Reagan's visit to a military cemetery at Bitburg in 1985, because it also contained graves of Waffen-SS soldiers. Also, Christopher Hitchens has pointed out that there have been critics who have called Grass' admission to be merely a publicity stunt to sell more copies of his new book.[6]

On August 14, 2006, the ruling party of Poland, the "Law and Justice" party, called on Grass to relinquish his honorary citizenship of Gdańsk. Jacek Kurski stated, "It is unacceptable for a city where the first blood was shed, where World War Two began, to have a Waffen-SS member as an honorary citizen." However, according to a poll [7][8] ordered by city's authorities, vast majority of Gdańsk citizens did not support Kurski's position. The mayor of Gdańsk, Paweł Adamowicz, said that he opposed submitting the affair to the municipal council because it was not for the council to judge history.[7]

In September 2006, 46 authors, poets, artists and intellectuals from various Arab countries published a letter of solidarity with Grass, praising his admission of membership in the Waffen-SS as a sign of bravery, worthy of respect and recognition. [9]
Note that he was gung-ho at the age of 15 (that would be 1942) to try to "volunteer for the U-Boat fleet." This was 2 years prior to his draft call-up at the age of 17-18.

<sarcasm>No signs of Nazi wannabee here. Nope. :nope: </sarcasm>

And I love the last paragraph, which links to this NZZ (Zurich) article, charmingly translated via Babelfish:
14. September 2006, Neue Zürcher Zeitung

Embarrassing solidarity (http://www.nzz.ch/2006/09/14/fe/articleEH125.html)
Arab writers support Guenter Grass

In a Communiqué, which appeared in several Arab daily papers, stated 46 writers, poet, artist and intellectual one from different Arab countries their solidarity with Guenter Grass: "as we cannot make a pubertierenden young person, who stood under the influence of hoellischen National Socialist propaganda, responsible for a behavior, free choice permitted?" The signers see confession in Grass ' the weapon S to have belonged an indication of the courage, which earns respect and acknowledgment. The criticism at Grass is interpreted as campaign "with the goal of diverting the attention from the crimes the Israeli, which are committed in Palestine and Lebanon,". The Israeli "neo-Nazis" are called: "you kill Palestinians and Israeli, destroy their countries, establish around them partition walls and are them into camps." The wording reminds very strongly of the language of the Iranian president Ahmadinejad.

To the signers of the document prominent intellectual ones belong like the Egyptian Romancier and culture journalist Gamal aluminum Ghitani, the director of the supreme Council OF Culture in Egypt, Jabir Asfur, the Bahrain poet Qasim Haddad or the Moroccan poet Mohamed Bennis.

The Communiqué reveals the unawareness of the involved ones over the debate around Guenter Grass in Germany. It shows however above all that none knows the signer the work of the German Nobelpreistraegers, although for some years some books of him are present on Arab. Also over the position from Grass to political questions, above all its occurring for the existence right of Israel, prevails complete unawareness.

The document says against it much out about the presentness of many Arab intellectual. They live in a world of conspiracy theories, faraway the reality, confound populist slogans and Rhetorik with intellectual discourse and see no necessity to argue with the Holocaust and the crimes of the national socialism.

Some the signer are gladly-seen guests with various meetings to the culture dialogue. It would be to be wished that this most embarrassing solidarity stating is presented for discussion.

[The Noob]

Of course he was involved in this. All that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering. Just like everyone else in his age did this in the Nazi time.

And if i would have been a Tank Gunnner of the german army i would not want to tell anyone, so i understand Guenter GraSS (;)) decision.

So i do not think he's a real Nazi.

[The Avon Lady]

Of course he was involved in this. All that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering. Just like everyone else in his age did this in the Nazi time.
Yep. That was quite a lot of Nazis. :yep:

Thanks for the confirmation. :up:

[The Noob]

Yep. That was quite a lot of Nazis. :yep:

Thanks for the confirmation. :up:
Every German WW2 Soldier=Nazi? This seems to be what you are thinking. No need to continue this discussion then, because i see this different.

Back to topic then. (Wich damn topic has this thread anyway?)

[The Avon Lady]

Yep. That was quite a lot of Nazis. :yep:

Thanks for the confirmation. :up:
Every German WW2 Soldier=Nazi?
No but you yourself said "all that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering."

This may shock you but some people say that Nazi propaganda promoted - are you ready for this - Nazism. :o

[Skybird]

Propaganda can also work not by hate tirades, but by hiding an ugly face and instead focus on more "charming" aspects: camp-fires, adventures, being with the boys, "Kameradschaft". My grandfather himself admitted that it was tempting for the young ones to join some nazi organization, whcih he only refused because he was a bit older then and already had learned to look behind the curtain and seeing the ugly, warmongering face of real Nazi policies. See the old German movie "Die Brücke" how innocent injustice can appear in a children's mind if it got brainwashed enough.

Concerning Grass, it is very well possible that his young age fooled him and thus he fell for the propaganda of the U-Boot-Flotte or the SS. We simply don't know. what we know is that the unit of Waffen-SS where he ended up is not known by historcial record to have participated in any massacre or other war crimes, and has not participated in attacks on civil populations in occupied territories. Waffen SS is not the same like SS. Many Waffen SS units simply were this: armed elite combat units. but of course, there were the real bad ones, too. The Nazi tempted to concentrate willing thugs in units, instead of spreading them around thorughout all forces. They minimized the info that was made available to the public that way, leaked by soldiers who were forced to do things they would not tolerate to remain silent about. If you shoot the population of a local village, you want the crime being done by willing men who will keep their mouths shut.

His biggest mistake may have been that he revealed his past so late, while always having criticised Germany for it's dealing with the Nazi past. That is double standards. He is a pontificating lecturer, "mit erhobenem Zeigefinger". I never liked the man and his style, nor his books. Tried them two times, both times was bored to death. the only good thing I ever heared of him was the text he wrote for a video collage, "why one does not set living people alight".

Grass made his revelations short time before publishing his latest book. And he got the attention for it that he probably wanted. Probably this is the main poi9nt this all is about. I didn't liked him before, and like him even less now becasue of his obvious timing.

[The Avon Lady]

An amazing coincidence. From today's Jerusalem Post (registration required):

Peeling the Onion (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193473047&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull).

Grass is a nobody.

[Konovalov]

An amazing coincidence. From today's Jerusalem Post (registration required):

Peeling the Onion (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193473047&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull).

Grass is a nobody.

Interesting article. When I read this part from the JP story then I pretty much had made up my mind on this Grass guy:

John Irving, who has cited Grass as a major influence on his writing, said that he is still a hero in his eyes and called him, "A daring writer and a daring man."

Grass is a waste of space. :down:

I thought this thread was about the Pope? Surely the Pope is not in the same league as this Grass character?

[Skybird]

I thought this thread was about the Pope? Surely the Pope is not in the same league as this Grass character?
Definitely.
I never came over it that Grass is a citizen of my beloved city of Lübeck - the only city on earth were I really would love to live (and home of another nobel prize winner in literature: Thomas Mann - who also is beyond Grass' reach, I don't read Mann, too, but at least he was a much smarter thinker than Grass).

Lübeck should be turned into a Grass-free zone :lol:

[joea]

I thought this thread was about the Pope? Surely the Pope is not in the same league as this Grass character?
Definitely.
I never came over it that Grass is a citizen of my beloved city of Lübeck - the only city on earth were I really would love to live (and home of another nobel prize winner in literature: Thomas Mann - who also is beyond Grass' reach, I don't read Mann, too, but at least he was a much smarter thinker than Grass).

Lübeck should be turned into a Grass-free zone :lol:

Damn you Skybird!! My boss left early today thankfully. :rotfl:

[Yahoshua]

This probably would've worked IF they had done this to begin with. Right now it's abit late for that since people would be up in arms over a politician rearding these people for ill behavior.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061025/ap_on_re_eu/france_suburban_violence

[Rockstar]

When Americans witnessed numerous so-called moderate Muslims make speeches to defend the benign nature of “The Religion of Peace,” after 9-11, for instance, many of these speakers were knowingly misrepresenting the true nature of Islam. Many have been documented speaking in far more aggressive terms in private meetings with other Muslims. These Muslims, posing as “moderates” justified their misrepresentations of Islam because in their minds, they were protecting Islam and thus American Muslims from “harm.” It was “damage control” in its truest form.

It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. The would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban saw Abdullah coming, he asked him, "From what tribe are you?" Abdullah answered, "From Khazaa." He then added, "I have heard that you are gathering an army to fight Mohammed and I came to join you." Abdullah started walking with Shaaban telling him how Mohammed came to them with the heretical teachings of Islam, and complained how Mohammed badmouthed the Arab patriarchs and ruined the Arab's hopes. They continued in conversation until they arrived at Shaaban's tent. Shaaban's companions departed and Shaaban invited Abdullah to come inside and rest. Abdullah sat there until the atmosphere was quiet and he sensed that everyone was asleep. Abdullah severed Shaaban's head and carried it to Mohammed as a trophy. When Mohammed sighted Abdullah, he jubilantly shouted, "Your face has been triumphant (Aflaha al- wajho)." Abdullah returned the greeting by saying, "It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant. (Aflaha wajhoka, ye rasoul Allah)."


So we see that lying is permissible for any number of reasons. As long as the end goal is to further the cause of Muhammad or Islam, it is permissible and overrides the initial prohibition against lying. In this case it was permissible in order to achieve the end goal of an assassination of someone whom Muhammad wanted dead. Unfortunately, because Islam holds up Muhammad as the supreme example of behavior for all Muslims, this same attitude is carried on by many of Muhammad’s followers today.

Flowing on down the spectrum, there is the imperative for Islam to take over local and eventually national governments. This is the point, unfortunately where the true face, the violent face of Islam is often revealed and, where jihad usually begins to get bloody. This reality is seen throughout the World today. So, while many people in the West think of jihad as simply fighting against non-Muslim governments and nations etc., the concept in Islam actually includes all aspects of life. So, in the Muslim mind, even the struggle to convert non-Muslims to Islam is part of jihad. Evangelism in Islam is more than just “sharing the good news,” it is war. With this in mind, it is vital that we note Muhammad’s famous saying that, “War is deception.”

[joea]

Tell the truth, you all want the gas chambers back don't you? :stare:

[HunterICX]

Tell the truth, you all want the gas chambers back don't you? :stare:

Dont be mad on us, we know what your thinking.:smug:

[The Avon Lady]

Tell the truth, you all want the gas chambers back don't you? :stare:
No but perhaps these guys do (http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1297wmv&ak=null).

How dare you accuse people here of Nazi barbarity! :down: Another case of blame the victim - pathetic! :down:

Back on topic: Peace march indeed (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23099_French_Youth-_Elect_Sarkozy_and_People_Will_Die)! :nope:
When Americans witnessed numerous so-called moderate Muslims make speeches to defend the benign nature of “The Religion of Peace,” after 9-11, for instance, many of these speakers were knowingly misrepresenting the true nature of Islam. Many have been documented speaking in far more aggressive terms in private meetings with other Muslims. These Muslims, posing as “moderates” justified their misrepresentations of Islam because in their minds, they were protecting Islam and thus American Muslims from “harm.” It was “damage control” in its truest form.
It's 5 years after 9/11. Here's the latest survey (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23097_ISNA_Survey-_Paranoia_Conspiracy_Theories_Support_for_Violence ).

Joea, keep pretending there's no pattern here.

[Konovalov]

Thanks for your theology lesson Rockstar on my religion. Fortunately I don't take my ideas from you and Osama bin Laden and Co.

But heck, keep on ranting that all we Muslims are liers and that there is some great big conspiracy that we are all going to take over the world, yada yada yada. Yawn. :roll:

How any of what you say has to do with 20,000 people conducting a peaceful march in Paris I don't know. Thread hijacking perhaps.

Edit: Avon Lady to reply with long post and lots of links as sure as is death and taxes.

[Narcosis]

A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around Australia yesterday.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, the nation's most senior Muslim cleric, compared immodestly-dressed women who do not wear the Islamic headdress with meat that is left uncovered in the street and is then eaten by cats.

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.
(These women were all white and non muslim)

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred."
Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.


What a Wa*k*r.......



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412697&in_page_id=1770

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20645635-2,00.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sheik-says-sorry-for-sex-sermon/2006/10/26/1161749218913.html

[The Avon Lady]

Thanks for your theology lesson Rockstar on my religion. Fortunately I don't take my ideas from you and Osama bin Laden and Co.
There are no lack of Islam authoratative sources. Major example:

"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible."
- Imam Al-Ghazali, as quoted by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, (Amana publications, 1997), section r8.2, p 745

Do you wish to debate the popularity, reverance and acceptance of al-Misri's book in the Islamic world (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ahmad+ibn+Naqib+al-Misri)? Or that of Imam Al-Ghazali (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Imam+Al-Ghazali%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off)? Or that of the book Reliance of the Traveller (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Reliance+of+the+Traveller%22)?

I fully believe you say what you mean and mean what you say. But who is your authority? Give us a hint. Show us why Rockstar is wrong, based on the very religious sources you believe in.
But heck, keep on ranting that all we Muslims are liers and that there is some great big conspiracy that we are all going to take over the world, yada yada yada. Yawn. :roll:
Conspiracy? This is what Islamic religious leaders all over the world keep on saying and they are no longer shy about boasting it (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23102_Islamic_Supremacists_at_Trinity_Colle ge&only) among English speaking publics. So forgive us for believing your co-religionists.
How any of what you say has to do with 20,000 people conducting a peaceful march in Paris I don't know. Thread hijacking perhaps.
No but the world is being hijacked, bit by bit.
Edit: Avon Lady to reply with long post and lots of links as sure as is death and taxes.
Live long and prosper! ;)

Did you ever realize that Mr. Spock's blessing is the maximal antidote to death and taxes? Think about it.

[The Avon Lady]

A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators
The sexual predators are the least of our problems. It's all these pesky flies that are driving us women batty! :doh:

[TteFAboB]

Superman was alot safer fearing kryptonite instead of the less rare Playboy magazine.

[HunterICX]

:x The problems isnt the uncovered meat, (:huh: MEAT? how rude...Skin please)
the problem is the muslim getting too much with their noses in our lives. they need to back off!

and now to change the thing...I find it very insulting towards me when an Muslim women is talking to me with her face covered!

and why in school arent we allowed to cover our heads with an baseball cap and the muslim are allowed to wear those towels covering their faces..or whatever they call that.

[fredbass]

Ladies, if you get tired of being treated like that, come over to my place in America. I'll give you respect and make love to you twice a day. Three times on Saturday if you can pull me away from playing SH3. :88)

I'll even help you do the dishes. :D

[Skybird]

The link between supressive morality plus supressed sexuality, and totalitarianism and male brutality - almost proverbial, in my eyes.

That sucker should do some reading: wilhelm Reich "The mass psychology of fascism". He thouroughly analyses - by example of Marxism and Fascism - how fascism, or in a wider understanding: totalitarianism - can be understood as the logical fallout of a hardened, repressice character structure that for reason of whatever failed or flawed morality refuses to accept oneself's sexual drives and desires.

The relation of Islam to sexuality I always have seen as deeply sick and repressive. Writes Istiaq Ahmed, professor for politcal science in Stockholm, (I re-quote him by a German book): " 'Segregation' is something all Muslims nations have in common. Wehre males and females are kept seperate from each other, sex does not disappear from their lives, but it rises into their heads - and stays there. If God really wanted sex-less beings inhabiting Earth, he would have send angels down to earth and would have kept human beings in heaven."

The same professor also refers to that Google-analysis of what nations produce the most clicks on porno-websites, I referred to it in a joke thread some weeks ago. I now have the complete top ten:

1. Pakistan
2. Egypt
3. Vietnam
4. Iran
5. India
6. Marocco
7. Indonesia
8. turkey
9. Saudi-Arabia
10. Poland

He questions the order, though, saying that internet-access in Saudi-Arabia and Iran are much more restricted than in Pakistan and Egypt. If people in these four countries would have similiar access to the internet, Iran and Saudi-Arabaia would lead that list before Pakistan and Egypt.

He explains further about the backwardness of Islamic societies and their supressive morales: " If we would modernize our understanding of sexuality and make it more humane, we would be able to use our energies in a productive and creative way. By not doing so, we foster frustration, which unloads in extremism and terrorism. Yes, I believe there is a social-sexual fundament for the current rise of extremism and terrorism and the muslim world."

I believe that, too. but I am more pessimistic about the possebilities of "modernizing" Islam's sexual morale. It still sees females as inhuman creatures not really being humans, but being linked to satan and thus being an expression of satan'S energy - which (male) man must supress by controlling females so that their energy cannot "explode". Enforced sex, rape, no rights for females, and totalitarian control of intersexual relations on a communal level are just expression and logical consequence of a mind that preaches and says prayers during sex that should ban satan and that understand sex as controlling women's satanic energy and save society from it. That's why this braindead cleric is seeing the male opressors as the victims of female charms. the victim - women - are declared the attacker, the danger, the threat. In it's own queer way, it is logical. No wonder then that I had to read repeatedly in books that throughout history it has been ruled that sex with a woman is even more sinful than having sex with animals, or even dead human bodies. Nothing can illustrate the deeply rooting fear and totally perverted relation Islam's view of man and life has when it comes to sexuality and the relation between both sexes.

A related essay:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,druck-443678,00.html

[Skybird]

I just finished reading a small but right-to-the-point book by this guy, and saw that his grim humour in that book is just coming from sadness over the fall of and love for Europe - feelings I know very well by now:

The German author Henryk M. Broder (http://www.henryk-broder.de/tagebuch/karikaturisten.html) recently told the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant (http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/ayaanhirsiali/2006/10/wie_de_vrijheid.html) (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now. Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin, Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said melancholically: “We are watching the world of yesterday.”
Europe is turning Muslim. As Broder is sixty years old he is not going to emigrate himself. “I am too old,” he said. However, he urged young people to get out and “move to Australia or New Zealand. That is the only option they have if they want to avoid the plagues that will turn the old continent uninhabitable.”
Many Germans and Dutch, apparently, did not wait for Broder’s advice. The number of emigrants leaving the Netherlands and Germany has already surpassed the number of immigrants moving in. One does not have to be prophetic to predict, like Henryk Broder, that Europe is becoming Islamic. Just consider the demographics. The number of Muslims in contemporary Europe is estimated to be 50 million. It is expected to double in twenty years. By 2025, one third of all European children will be born to Muslim families. Today Mohammed is already the most popular name for new-born boys in Brussels, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and other major European cities.
Broder is convinced that the Europeans are not willing to oppose islamization. “The dominant ethos,” he told De Volkskrant, “is perfectly voiced by the stupid blonde woman author with whom I recently debated. She said that it is sometimes better to let yourself be raped than to risk serious injuries while resisting. She said it is sometimes better to avoid fighting than run the risk of death.”
In a recent op-ed piece in the Brussels newspaper De Standaard (23 October) the Dutch (gay and self-declared “humanist”) author Oscar Van den Boogaard refers to Broder’s interview. Van den Boogaard says that to him coping with the islamization of Europe is like “a process of mourning.” He is overwhelmed by a “feeling of sadness.” “I am not a warrior,” he says, “but who is? I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it.”
As Tom Bethell wrote in this month’s American Spectator: “Just at the most basic level of demography the secular-humanist option is not working.” But there is more to it than the fact that non-religious people tend not to have as many children as religious people, because many of them prefer to “enjoy” freedom rather than renounce it for the sake of children. Secularists, it seems to me, are also less keen on fighting. Since they do not believe in an afterlife, this life is the only thing they have to lose. Hence they will rather accept submission than fight. Like the German feminist Broder referred to, they prefer to be raped than to resist.
“If faith collapses, civilization goes with it,” says Bethell. That is the real cause of the closing of civilization in Europe. Islamization is simply the consequence. The very word Islam means “submission” and the secularists have submitted already. Many Europeans have already become Muslims, though they do not realize it or do not want to admit it.
Some of the people I meet in the U.S. are particularly worried about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe. They are correct when they fear that anti-Semitism is also on the rise among non-immigrant Europeans. The latter hate people with a fighting spirit. Contemporary anti-Semitism in Europe (at least when coming from native Europeans) is related to anti-Americanism. People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit, hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.
This is why they have come to hate Israel and America so much, and the small band of European “islamophobes” who dare to talk about what they see happening around them. West Europeans have to choose between submission (islam) or death. I fear, like Broder, that they have chosen submission – just like in former days when they preferred to be red rather than dead.
www.al.com/node/1609 (http://www.al.com/node/1609)


Broder writes for "Der Spiegel", "Weltwoche" and is co-publisher of the "Jüdischer Kalender". He is usually associated with the slightly left political spectrum, being a close friend of PDS-star" Gregor Gysi.

[Narcosis]

the problem is the muslim getting too much with their noses in our lives. they need to back off!



Islam is a Political, Legal and Religious movement. The problem is most people think it as just a religion. That is totally wrong.

They want to submit (Meaning Islam) every one, either peacefully / manipulatively or by force to their way. If it takes decades or a generation they will try.

This is why we see massive problems within western cultures regardless if their is Hindu, Jews, Christians, Buddhist or the rest mixing peacefully amongst us. It will always be the Muslim plotting a massive killing spree or cutting heads off people and filming it. No other religion does this.

They want to have sharia law, Islamic governments to rule every one..

Hence the saying "Clash of Civilizations" . Muslims are the biggest threat to our way of life since Communism and the Nazis.

[Skybird]

Islam is ...
the biggest threat to our way of life since Communism and the Nazis.

I disagree. If Hitler still will be remembered in 1500 years remains to be seen, and in communist dictatorships you have seen anything but true communism at work, it was the starting sparkle maybe, but soon left the ideal behind - no way you can get Marx and Stalin under one hat. The first idea about communism leads back to the amncient Greeks anyway, and has not caused supression and violence back then. It is an utopia, understood as something that is hoped and wished for, but will never be reached.

The violent and supressive influence of Islam, however, is spreading since the 7th century, continously. I therefore see it like this, that neither the Nazis nor the Stalinists were the biggest threat ever, but that Islam indeed is the greatest and most threatening cultural catastrophe that ever came upon mankind.

It so far has consumed and therefore annihilated almost any other culture it has ever come into contact with. the military fighting spirit born by Islam is superior to the fighting spirit of others, for it teaches the love for the beyond, while most others prefer to love the current life and value it, while fearing the beyond, death. Different to the Borg, it does assimilate only material ressources and pragmatic knowledge, no mental, cultural and intellectual fundamental ressources on whose fertility pragmatic knowldge and material ressources had been raised by the submitted culture. Islam's creative self-dynamic is exytremely limited. Beyond these two differences, it's attitude towards non-islamic factions is uncompromisingly intolerant, aggressive and very much like the Borg indeed.

[Dan D]

True, it is GraSS with two "S".

+++
Because of the pope cartoon, Titanic Magazine received a protest e-mail by an angry reader, which they posted in their column “Titanic readers introduce themselves”:
“Daniel Sch. from gmx on the startcartoon:

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Sch
To: info@titanic-magazin.de
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Was für eine Schweinerrei
Was erlaupt ihr euch eigentlich???? macht das doch mal bei dem islam, dann wird eure zeitschrift samt angstellten verbrannt!
dummes unverschämtes pack!!!!“

In plain English:
Subject: Incredible swinishness
How dare you???? Do that with Islam, then your magazine together with your employees will get burned!
Ignorant impertinent vermin!!!!

LÖL

+++++
For what's it's Mary Worth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbUm4q5Euyk)

[TteFAboB]

On this topic it is interesting to remember that the Middle East Allied with both the Nazis AND Communists. Governments come and go, nation-states come and go, tyrants come and go but the big black box won't budge, so they side with what they consider to be the least worst infidel.

The three can all be a combined. You've already lost by the time your choice is between Sharia and the Party.

[SUBMAN1]

:x The problems isnt the uncovered meat, (:huh: MEAT? how rude...Skin please)
the problem is the muslim getting too much with their noses in our lives. they need to back off!

and now to change the thing...I find it very insulting towards me when an Muslim women is talking to me with her face covered!

and why in school arent we allowed to cover our heads with an baseball cap and the muslim are allowed to wear those towels covering their faces..or whatever they call that.
Not defending anything, but it goes both ways. I remember watching movie stars from the US putting their noses into the business of Afganistan and the plight of women there long before we invaded. No its just coming full circle is all. Funny to watch how this all plays out. I also remember myself thinking that they should just leave them alone since it is not their business.

-S

[Rockstar]

True Believers chop off another head, this time a 14 year old boy.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52699

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the obligatory charity, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. -Surah 9:5 (Shakir)

If you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks -Surah 47:4 (Khalifa)

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. Matthew 24:9

All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. John 16:1-4

[Narcosis]

violent scuffles outside the London court where muslims face race hate charges.


Mizanur Rahman was one of four people arrested outside the Danish Embassy in Sloane Street, West Kensington after allegedly calling for the killing of British and American soldiers as well as Danish nationals.

Web designer Rahman, who has a wife and child in Bangladesh, called for 'another 9/11' in Europe.

Hang on, this guy lives in Bangladash !!!! Send the ********* BACK their then.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1239381,00.html

[KevinB]

Abosolutely! And if we ranted on about them, they would burn our embassies down and issue Fatwas.

[TteFAboB]

Get the names of the 25 protesters published by some blog so that these people can be ostracized in their Mosques.

Imams and Muftis are clear: apostates must face death. Very well, I declare these people apostates of Islam and followers of the Church of Izzadeen, their polytheist Gods are the TNT, the Megaphone and the God of Terrorism, not to mention that they've adopted life in the land of the infidel and rejected Sharia by submitting to the infidel's legal system.

Really, we should use their own laws against them.

[SUBMAN1]

Get the names of the 25 protesters published by some blog so that these people can be ostracized in their Mosques.

Imams and Muftis are clear: apostates must face death. Very well, I declare these people apostates of Islam and followers of the Church of Izzadeen, their polytheist Gods are the TNT, the Megaphone and the God of Terrorism, not to mention that they've adopted life in the land of the infidel and rejected Sharia by submitting to the infidel's legal system.

Really, we should use their own laws against them.

Best post on the subject I have read yet!

[bookworm_020]

If he doesn't like the laws and values of the country he decided to come too, then he can move to a country that has laws that suit his views, like Sudan!

[AG124]

Of course, the comments by Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali have been posted here before by Narcosis, but now, it appears that muslim outrage over the situation is intensifying. Not at the cleric, of course, but at the West... :huh: :doh: :roll:

Meanwhile, it appears that by reporting such outrageous comments, the Australian and Western press have committed an atrocity by making muslims look bad. Apparently, the "fierce condemnation" is so offensive to Australian muslims, that 34 muslim groups have gotten together to offer a condemnation of western politicians and the media (the population is split on the issue, and there are no statistics that I can find). Meanwhile, in the face of such muslim support, Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali has revoked his promise not to preach and has once again resumed publicly urging the defeat of the United States. He will only quit "After we clean the world of the White House first." He has also allegedly praised the 9/11 bombers and other terrorists, but it is not clear if he is still doing that publicly now.

Now to just sit back and wait for someone to appease the outrage with an apology.:nope: When will it end?

Here are some links:

"Aus. Muslims Fight Back"

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2024255,00.html

"Muslim Cleric Refuses to Quit"

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2021478,00.html

"Australia's Cleric Preaches Despite Vow"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061103/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_muslims_4

[Rockstar]

Nothing to see here ladies and gentlemen keep it moving. It's just a misunderstood peaceful religion trying to rule by shri'a law and have you change your schedule according to the Islamic calendar.


Hmmm where is it said, and he shall think to change the laws and time?

[STEED]

http://www.langkawi.dk/midis/9.gifMOVE IT BUSTER!

[AG124]

http://www.langkawi.dk/midis/9.gifMOVE IT BUSTER!

Me? Why?:o

[Onkel Neal]

Carry on the conversation like nothing happened :)

[AG124]

Alright, merging this thread with a similar one seems like a good idea to me.:yep: But I'm not going to be banned, am I?:o

[SUBMAN1]

Alright, merging this thread with a similar one seems like a good idea to me.:yep: But I'm not going to be banned, am I?:o

I think you are! cya!

[Yahoshua]

:rotfl:

[Rockstar]

Yes you have just been banned ! It's a new unwritten rule recently implemented which causes one to be publicly banned without the person being banned to be banned from posting or having any knowledge of the banishment.

:/\\chop

[STEED]

:rotfl: :rotfl: