Why I am not that anxious for GWX!!!!

[Wulfmann]

Until a few weeks ago when I stated refinishing Kar98Ks and 24/47s I had run a SH3 patrol every night since May 2005. In most of that time I frustratingly tweaked and tested all for that day when I had nothing more that could be done to make SH3 as realistic as possible. A couple months ago I finally accomplished my goal which means I am in hell every time I leave port in 1943 on.
With a GW install and NYGM sensors both tweaked to be harder, my own RND and SCR mis files and many new ships I finally have this like reading like an account from various U-Boat books. A big help to me was having the Seawolves Med ships. They add a Hunt as a DE (along with GW adding a US DE as a Brit) and the extra sloops (frigates) I could make the escorts of convoys much more realistic and that really mattered to me because the predictability was gone with the added variation that allowed me to eliminate all DDs except a few named ones from 42 one (that was real)

When I approach a convoy now I better be submerged long before they see me, silent and at one knot or dead to have any chance of getting in a convoy. With a minimum of 12 or as many as 20 escorts that is slim. I have counted 7 escorts across the horizon with no sign of a merchant’s smoke. No escort is less than 3 crew rated.
As hard as this is; one quickly adapts (or dies fast!). No reloading, no off silent at all that is history. God help me if I get damaged at all because repairs draw escorts like a magnet.
I have adjusted and succeeded. This 1943 career I had made it to D-Day and went on patrol. I was damaged by Elcos patrolling right outside of St Nazaire before I could dive(I need to start diving in the pen and then leave).
I found 2 stragglers for 9,800tons. By the beginning of July I had evaded 2 DDs and finally found a juicy convoy. I got lucky and snuck in. I took out the fat T3 and a troopship and fired one my twoT5s at a DD but though it hit something I knew not what. T5s cost me 500 renown and I get one free in 44 so had to buy the second as back up.
For the next 6 real hours I was on nerve’s edge as 4 escorts took their turn attacking me. I have learned all the tricks of using my hydro and listened carefully cranking up the electrics to get away from certain death time and again. An hour in I made a mistake or was just plain out smarted as I caught a good group of Wasser bombs. Flooding in 3 (orange) compartments both peris destroyed I went to flank and zig zagged as my repair boys worked their magic but I really thought I was a goner. Repairs completed I went back to cat and mouse. By 2 hours of this 2 escorts had left and I could hear the 2 distinct sounds of different motors. One was a corvette (or a sloop?) and the other a DE, Hunt type as there were many in the convoy.
This helped me keep track of who was where and all.
Time and again they tried to sneak a surge attack and time and again I read the plan and evaded. I would play for about an hour and save it so I would not get frustrated or over confident so this lasted 5 days in a row. After 6 hours they kept looking but their sweep was further and further astern. I think they ran out of DCs as well.
Once clear I surfaced (no peris) and retraced to see if that T5 had disabled anything and found a C2 down by the stern and on fire. I had to attack on the surface but put in a fish so sank my third big ship in this convoy.
But, the convoy was so vast seven ships deep and horizon to horizon so what was getting through was certainly dooming Germany
It was mid July and 36K was a patrol to be proud of as I was certainly hunted far more than I hunted. I had to evade more DDs on the way home and was almost sunk again by ships and aircraft but finally made it home in a patrol that was nothing but constant nervous strain.
I have now been ordered to leave France and head for Norway. Perhaps I will survive this war and immigrate to America when all is said and done.
Once GWX is released I will have to start the tweaking all over again as it will have to compete with this very realistic version or the extra candy will be meaningless to me. IMO, of course.

Wulfmann

[AVGWarhawk]

It is all what you are into I guess. If you like what you created, why change? Sail on !

[bigboywooly]

Ah Wulfmann

The Hunt was designated as an Escort Destroyer - not a destroyer escort

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hunt_class.htm

Royal naval Hunt Class escort destroyers

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/types.html?navy=HMS&type=Escort+destroyer

All Escort destroyers classes (in service with the Royal Navy) Hunt (Type I) (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=22&navy=HMS) (20) Hunt (Type II) (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=401&navy=HMS) (36) Hunt (Type III) (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=402&navy=HMS) (26) Hunt (Type IV) (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=403&navy=HMS) (2)

So they were never DE
:damn:
If anything they should be an ED

A Destroyer Escort (DE) is classification for a small, comparatively slower warship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warship) designed to be used to escort convoys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy) of merchant marine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_marine) ships, primarily of the United States Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) in WWII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II). It is usually employed primarily for anti-submarine warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare), but also some protection against aircraft and smaller attack vessels in this application. The US built roughly 457 Destroyer escorts spread out over 8 classes. The Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy)'s equivalent warship was known as the Frigate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate), although somewhat confusingly they referred to the Hunt class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_class_destroyer) and similar ships as "escort destroyers".

[bookworm_020]

If you find a level that your happy with stick to it

[Respenus]

I believe that this is playing it slighty over the edge. Too much realism is just, well...too much! I commend you for the will you have too even consider playing at such level, but I consider that a tad too much.

But again, I salute you :up:

[Sailor Steve]

If anything they should be an ED
I agree with your summation except for that one sentence. 'DE', 'DD', 'BB' etcetera were specifically American classifications. No other navy used anything like them. Therefore, if a Hunt is going to have any kind of letter designation, what's wrong with 'DE'? A lot of people today bristle at battlecruisers being called 'CB', claiming it should be 'BC'; but the Americans were the only ones to do that, so...?

[Ducimus]

I frustratingly tweaked and tested all for that day when I had nothing more that could be done to make SH3 as realistic as possible. A couple months ago I finally accomplished my goal...

.........big snip to cut to the chase............

Once GWX is released I will have to start the tweaking all over again as it will have to compete with this very realistic version or the extra candy will be meaningless to me. IMO, of course.

Wulfmann

I can understand the constant tweaking and testing. Ive done the same to my own game for a year now.

But you make some very large assumption's:

- You seem to assume GWX will have crappy AI sensors and be a walk in the park like stock.
- You seem to assume all GW (anything) is, is just a graphics mod.
- you seem to assume that you have to use GWX.


I can tell you this.

-The sensors are NOTHING like they are in GW11a. I know this for a fact.

-GWX team structured by compartments. Theres a small crew of people working on all facets of the game. I know this because i was on the campaign team for awhile. My point is, its not just graphics, but yes, there is an art department.

- You dont have to use GWX. I dont use GW11a, or any version of NYGM. I have one highly modified version of UC vanillia with bits of both in it. Just cause a new mod is released doesnt mean you have to abandon all your work. That said, when GWX is released, i will probably do just that, because im that confident with GWX.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I frustratingly tweaked and tested all for that day when I had nothing more that could be done to make SH3 as realistic as possible. A couple months ago I finally accomplished my goal...

.........big snip to cut to the chase............

Once GWX is released I will have to start the tweaking all over again as it will have to compete with this very realistic version or the extra candy will be meaningless to me. IMO, of course.

Wulfmann

I can understand the constant tweaking and testing. Ive done the same to my own game for a year now.

But you make some very large assumption's:

- You seem to assume GWX will have crappy AI sensors and be a walk in the park like stock.
- You seem to assume all GW (anything) is, is just a graphics mod.
- you seem to assume that you have to use GWX.


I can tell you this.

-The sensors are NOTHING like they are in GW11a. I know this for a fact.

-GWX team structured by compartments. Theres a small crew of people working on all facets of the game. I know this because i was on the campaign team for awhile. My point is, its not just graphics, but yes, there is an art department.

- You dont have to use GWX. I dont use GW11a, or any version of NYGM. I have one highly modified version of UC vanillia with bits of both in it. Just cause a new mod is released doesnt mean you have to abandon all your work. That said, when GWX is released, i will probably do just that, because im that confident with GWX.

Thank you Ducimus. You took the words right out of my mouth and saved me some typing.

Did we expect anything different from Wulfmann though? I think not.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[stabiz]

Wulfmann, I have to respect the way you apparantly master the game. But what is the point with this thread?

Are we all goint to start threads when we dont like a mod thats not even released?

If so, I will never use the next fubar IXC skin, since my psychic told me it is blue metallic with green racing strips.

People are strange, Jim Morrison once said. :hmm:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Well I agrie with the statment "find what you like and stick with it".

But however I say you should at least give GWX a look-see to see if you want to pass or not(readme) :yep:

[HunterICX]

I have to agree with Stabiz&Ducimes

:yep:

Dont flame a mod of before its out. really this thread is pointless.
I,m happy wath the GW dev team have brought me with GW and defintly they will keep surprising me with the GWX.

*Once GWX is released I will have to start the tweaking all over again as it will have to compete with this very realistic version or the extra candy will be meaningless to me. IMO, of course.*

Now really this competition...what do you want to proof? if you only going to do this so you can make threads about ''What is bad modified in GWX'' please keep those comments for urself dont share.

HunterICX

[Pants]

@Wulfmann..i started to read your post but i almost fell asleep after the first line
If you are like the thread title says..stick with SW

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Sw? :-?

[THE_MASK]

This post is just and out and out contrived roundabout way of trying to discredit GWX before it even comes out in my opinion .

[mookiemookie]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but heck, I gotta...

The GW team is doing this as a labor of love. They get paid nothing to put in hours of their own free time to modify SH3 to a state they they themselves feel is appropriate, and a level that they feel would provide the most fun and immersion given the constraints of the game engine. They share this product with the community because they're proud of their work and feel that the rest of us would have fun with what they've done. And that's where their responsibility to us ends.

And I appreciate their hard work. Of course its always "different strokes for different" folks" and what they feel is good enough, just may not BE good enough for you. And guess what? That's your opinion. They're under no obligation to take that into account. You pay nothing for their product.

I'm sure they will listen to constructive criticism, but (and I apologize for this) your post sounded a bit whiny to me. If you don't like their mod and want to modify the game to your standards, there's nothing stopping you from doing it. Go right ahead. But please, don't denigrate what these fine fellows (and ladies, maybe) are doing out of the kindness of their hearts and love for the game by making posts like this. Please. It serves no purpose except to leave a sour taste in peoples mouths.

[JSalinger]

Don't knock it before you try it (as my mom and girlfriend say)!

I am personally going to try out GWX when it comes out...who knows, I may like it, I may not, but I won't know either way until I try it out.

And honestly, SEAWOLVES?! They're the biggest bunch of thieving, lying, defrauding con artists I've ever seen!

[VonHelsching]

Please...

The GWX team is cruising at flank speed submerged and the batteries are running out. We don't need another distracting thread. We have enough work to do.

We need to surface soon...

[Tuddley3]

Sw? :-?

S for Sea, and W for Wolves. Put them together and you have Stolen Work from modders.Some say this thread is pointless, but in Wulfman's mind it's another X1 Software plug.

[Miika]

I do military stuff for living and play SHIII for fun. In my opinion GW11 has made SHIII extremely enjoyable and immersive. Not everybody (at least not me) wants "extreme realism", meaning extremely difficult gameplay. For me the realism in GW11 is just right - a great way of enjoying an early sunday morning. Also, usually "realism" tends to be totally different from "difficulty". I use manual targetting and am happy I can hit a ship with enough torpedoes and sink it. If I wanted extreme realism I would probably join the navy;)

Miika

(Waiting anxiously for GWX, hoping both for realism and being able to enjoy the GWX without 5 years of proper submarine training.:D )

[Gogs]

I read these posts with great interest. As a new boy to the game and to the forum these are quite an education. I don't know who is right and who is wrong here. My opinion and choices are my own and I shall decide upon them when I feel I have enough information. There are a lot of comments saying things like stop these types of threads but then again there are an awful lot of replies so if they were originally just designed to stir things up then they have succeeded.

The point of my post? I quite like these digs and counter digs and it is entertaining even if I dont know the history and personalities. There may even be some information there on styles of play that I could try.

Keep up the good work, I hope you dont find these threads so annoying that you stop posting.:up:

Thanks for your indulgence.

G

[raymond6751]

Realism?

Anyone who does a patrol in a day isn't playing with any reality, anyway.

I've had SH3 since it came out and haven't gotten past 1940 yet. True, I keep trying out all the mods and having to restart my careers, but I take weeks of real time to do a patrol.

I use fast forward only at the end of a session, to push ahead to the end of game day or night. I use real time and enjoy the ambiance of the experience.

Thanks to all the modders for keeping my game alive and interesting. I don't think this thread should be taken seriously.

[MarshalLaw]

Wulfman,

May I suggest that you ask to work with the GW team, (if possible), Maybe be a Beta tester or something. That way you have a hand in the devolpment, with someone of your experience, as long as you look at things objectively, I'm sure you would be a asset to make GWX as best as it can be. Plus it gives you a new challenge to tackle.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Wulfman,

May I suggest that you ask to work with the GW team, (if possible), Maybe be a Beta tester or something. That way you have a hand in the devolpment, with someone of your experience, as long as you look at things objectively, I'm sure you would be a asset to make GWX as best as it can be. Plus it gives you a new challenge to tackle.

This will never happen. I hereby VETO the idea.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know who is right and who is wrong here.
It's simple: I'm right and you're wrong. So there.:p

The point of my post? I quite like these digs and counter digs and it is entertaining even if I dont know the history and personalities. There may even be some information there on styles of play that I could try.

Keep up the good work, I hope you dont find these threads so annoying that you stop posting.:up:

Thanks for your indulgence.

G
Actually, that's one of the better perspectives I've read lately. I agree, the point of posting is to air an opinion, and the fact that they aren't always going to agree should not be a stopping point.

Personally, I also joke with myself about GWX presenting new problems for me, as it means more neat stuff I have to pour through to see what I can stea...use for my own personal modded game. I feel a little guilty saying things like that out loud since it is a little rude to watch all the cool new stuff people have poured their hearts into, knowing I'm probably only going to want some of it.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing exactly what they come up with, and I intend to do a complete install for a while just to see if, after all, I might actually like it just as it is.

[fredbass]

I still haven't figured out the purpose of this thread. Does he have a suggestion on what he wants the GWX team to do? If there's something specific he wants in the expansion, I suggest he spell it out.

And while he's at it, he'd better not buy any new games that come on the market either because he'll have to mod them too, so he'd better just keep what he's got then he won't have to do anything. :know:

[Safe-Keeper]

Am I the only one here not upset by his thread?

Wulf is proud of his project and tells us about it. Nothing's more natural if you've made a mod' you consider good. Maybe his angle was a bit out-of-line, but his post itself wasn't, in my opinion.

[Sailor Steve]

No, I'm not upset. I like hearing other peoples' opinions and ideas.

[fredbass]

Am I the only one here not upset by his thread?

Wulf is proud of his project and tells us about it. Nothing's more natural if you've made a mod' you consider good. Maybe his angle was a bit out-of-line, but his post itself wasn't, in my opinion.

OK, so you say it's nothing more than telling us about his project. Well then he should have started a thread or responded to a current thread telling us of his accomplishments instead of complaining about someone elses future project which has no effect on what he's done whatsoever.

[stabiz]

Am I the only one here not upset by his thread?

Wulf is proud of his project and tells us about it. Nothing's more natural if you've made a mod' you consider good. Maybe his angle was a bit out-of-line, but his post itself wasn't, in my opinion.

Oh, if thats his point I for one misunderstod completely.

[mookiemookie]

Am I the only one here not upset by his thread?

Wulf is proud of his project and tells us about it. Nothing's more natural if you've made a mod' you consider good. Maybe his angle was a bit out-of-line, but his post itself wasn't, in my opinion.

OK, so you say it's nothing more than telling us about his project. Well then he should have started a thread or responded to a current thread telling us of his accomplishments instead of complaining about someone elses future project which has no effect on what he's done whatsoever.

That was my point as well. It really came across as a dig on the GW team. Differing opinions are great, but tactifully expressing them is even better. :yep:

[Wulfmann]

Wow, talk about seeing something different seen.
I really thought there would not be a single reply to this thread and I just now came to the forum after original posting it

First, I in no way was criticizing GWX before it is released. Those that thought that simply missed the point. Because after all this time I finally have this SH3 as real as I believe it can be starting over just seems daunting.
No more.

What ever you think of calling the Hunt class there is no ED designation and my point was it was purpose built to escort not a fleet destroyer with which SH3 classes it as and by having a DE classed one that expands along with the GW added US DE as HMS and the original River (Which is not a River at all) allows for using 3 generic type 3s in the RND varying the make up of escorts (with 3 type not one and reducing using DDs as escorts)) making convoy predictability by recognizing the escort make up more difficult. (Don’t make me repeat that!):rotfl:

I will certainly get GWX and will certainly find it lacking for my purpose.
That is not a cut in any way.
Many point out my level of realism is just too close to nerve racking and I agree but I will insist on that and if GWX was made to that most would find it more than they might enjoy.
It is not being made to suit me and again knowing that I know I will start over.

As for me being any part of any project in this community I just can’t consider it and as was pointed out I would not be welcome.
Excuse my arrogance but I have no doubt GWX would benefit in many ways from my involvement but my refusal to be part of past witch hunts makes me an outsider not welcome by the party faithful.
I would not mention this but since a couple made it a point to make the cutting insults I have the right to reply!
I am in two other projects anyway and have a good idea on how taxing and difficult the commitment is.
I am happy as most here are that the fine group in GW is working so hard for our enjoyment and my altering it means I respect it and just want to extra tweak not change the great effort

I love how SW gets thrown in, some just can’t resist.

That patrol was on the edge from the moment I left the pen and I had 8-10 DD contacts and many aircraft close calls and that 6 hour pounding and was nearly sunk many times. Had that been real life I might have deserted upon my arrival in St Nazaire.

I was just thinking out loud about how GWX taking longer would delay my starting over to reach this same super intensity

Bottom line my install is a heavily modded GW and since GWX will still be somewhat user friendly it will not be nerve racking enough for me hence I will have to start over.

Whatever else you make of this is in your head and was not from me.

Wulfmann

[JSalinger]

Then I'm curious Wulf, how do you know what will be in GWX? Unless you happen to be a Beta tester or are involved in its development, I see no reason how you could know what's going to be in it...

Arrogance is a weakness...overconfidence is a weakness...Hitler learned these things the hardway and ended up blowing his brains out he backside of his head...;)

[Wulfmann]

I never said I knew what was in GWX.
By what they say it will be different that the current one.
Am I wrong to assume that is true?

All I said was after a year and a half I finally have SH3 as real as I can get it for the first time and when GWX is released I will have to re-tweak that to suit that same intensity because it is not being made for me.

I certainly do not expect it to be so I will have to make it such and because that will take a lot of work it being delayed will allow me to enjoy this version a little longer.

Some mistook my "Not being anxious" to mean I did not think it would be good. That is wrong. I expect it to be so good I will want to stop playing this version and tweak it to suit mey idea of reality.
This really would not be that hard to understand if some were not looking to make it more than it is.

Wulfmann

[kapitanfred]

Wulfmann, it seems to me that you are more worried about having to re-tweak things to suit your needs. There is a simple solution to it all, don't use the GWX mod when it gets released.:yep:

[TarJak]

Or don't tweak it! I plan to wait and see what's in and whats not. I've also tweaked my GW install with a bunch of new ships and planes and while I hope the ones I've got are all in GWX I'm not going to be too bothered if not. Just tweak again and test and if it all works viola! I'm a happy kaleun again!

[Boris]

Don't count your chickens yet Wulfman, GWX is no picnic... you may have to do less tweaking than you think.

[Respenus]

We shall all see, how GWX will work out! :smug:

[Wulfmann]

Don't count your chickens yet Wulfman, GWX is no picnic... you may have to do less tweaking than you think.

That would be nice but I don't mind tweaking it.

Still almost everyone missed the point

Nothing stays the same, we call it progress.

I look forward to GWX. When it comes I will examine the files particularly the convoys in the RND.mis file and the sensors. Unless GWX has added many DE and sloop types (eliminating the fleet DDs from escorting convoys) and correctly utilized them in proper historic numbers and at veteran crew ratings I will simply change it to suit what, IMO, is historic.
If the sensors are much much much improved (GW's are so so so easy) then I will give it a go to see what they came up with. There are more ways to approach sensors but NYGM was, IMO, closer to what I thought was realistic, again, IMO. However, I made my own sensor setting but they are closer to NYGM and nowhere near the very easy GW. (I have no doubt that will change in GWX from what I have read.)
What I noticed and finally got me on track was that each sensor change effects other aspects so one must edit a single item and test that before changing other areas one at a time. Changing 3 or 4 things may change things in a way that does not allow one to ascertain what caused the adverse effect and lead one further from the desired solution. That was what took me so long testing each single change before moving to another item.

Again. What I said and some misunderstood (some look for ways to slam me anyway but I am happy I can be the whipping post) was I finally tweaked my GW-NYGM-Wulfmann-SH3 to be as I believe is super hard but survivable, as good as I can get it and better than I ever thought possible.
So, in spite of my desire to have and use the GWX this one is so good now I will not mind waiting a little longer.
If you choose to read that as a slam to the GW team you likely rode the short bus to school or simply translate anything I say to be something to attack.
If so, for the first seek counseling and the latter just remove the beam from your own eye before you concern yourself with the splinter in mine!

Wulfmann

[Sailor Steve]

(Don’t make me repeat that!):rotfl:
Repeat please!







If you don't get that joke you need to see Battle Of Britain (or if you've seen it you need to watch it again).

[Pants]

The good old polish Squadron :up:
Good afternoon...Good Afternoon my arse! LOL