SH4 Sub. Vs Sub.

[GV_Darkata]

IN SH4 it is POSSIBLE TO FIGHT ALSO SUB. VS SUB?
I HOPE SO MUCH OF
CIAO UN SALUTO A TUTTI DA GV_Darkata (secondo a nessuno):D

[TDK1044]

You would be able to shoot a torp at a Japanese sub you spotted on the surface, but in terms of a submerged battle...no this will not be a part of SH4.

[Torplexed]

So far I don't think it has been confirmed that there even are any Japanese subs in SH4. However, I recall the sinking of Japanese subs in SH1 was a rather dull affair. They just sailed placidly along until you put a torpedo in 'em. They didn't try and submerge even if you missed or had a premature detonation. If there are Japanese subs I hope they are a little more awake. :cool:

[JU_88]

Lets hope they do have other subs this time, SH3 was kinda let down badly by that. At the moment the DEvs have said that AI subs are desirable but not essential, so if time allows they hope to include them. If they do lets hope they are smart enough to conduct submerged attacks etc.

You know there was one instance during WW2, where a British V class sub sunk a German IXD2 Uboat with a spread of torpedos while both vessels were submerged - the only instance of this ever happening in all of naval history.

:rock:

[Safe-Keeper]

According to the developers, no. You can, however, take command of a group of escort ships and pit them against player subs.

[Safe-Keeper]

According to the developers, no. You can, however, take command of a group of escort ships and pit them against player subs.

[JU_88]

According to the developers, no. You can, however, take command of a group of escort ships and pit them against player subs.

Are you sure he taking about Multiplayer? I just assumed he was asking if he could meet other subs in campaign mode, as SH is really not an MP focussed type of game.

[GV_Darkata]

battle sub. vs sub. in multiplayer sh3 is good :up:
UMAN VS UMAN NO STUPID "IA"
EVERY EVENING IN UBI WE PLAY:D


QUESTI SONO I "GENTILUOMINI DI VENTURA" AD ESEMPIO:arrgh!: :arrgh!: :arrgh!:
http://www.image-share.net//image/12134/I%20GV.JPG

[1mPHUNit0]

Hey Darky ...still live?
heheheheh

[peterloo]

Do you remember that in SH2, there is once a single mission to ask you to destroy a British sub (That should be Clyde, if I'm right). If you guys are lucky, you may be able to sink it with a spread of torp @ periscope depth. However, at most cases, you need to submerge, follow its sonar contacts [it also submerges as well), and wait for it to surface and give him a kiss of fish after running out of battery / ram it until it is wasted

Also, we won't have Japanese subs, as said as the Dev Team

Futhermore, if your sub is close to the Japanese sub, and you found that it is a KAMIKAZE sub. It moves towards you, and detonate its 600kg (for Kairyu type midget sub) / 1550kg (for Kaiten human torpedo) warhead, and then ...

[joejccva]

You know I could never figure this out. Sure it's nice to be able to sneak up on enemy destroyers and other ships, and blow them to pieces, but in SH3 I was wondering why we could never have sub vs sub submerged combat. It seemed like it would make sense so I was thinking.."well...it will happen in SH4".

Now I hear that there won't be any sub vs sub battles in SH4 now. Ummm am I missing something here? Shouldn't this have been the very FIRST thing UBI made into this new game? I really hope that SH4 isn't SH3 with just prettier graphics. I REALLY HOPE NOT.

[Corsair]

SH3 is aimed at the battle for the Atlantic where the main task of german subs was to disrupt merchant traffic and nothing else. With the mods available from the community (and the much awaited GWX coming soon) I think imho that SH3 will be right on the spot and a fantastic experience.
During WW2 the purpose of subs was not to hunt other subs. If I want to do sub hunting, I shoot up DW...;)
I don't have at hand the stat on how many subs were actually sunk by another sub during WWII, but I would guess it must be a very low figure as I never read about any. (But I am not a Pacific specialist and not much interested by this theater besides carrier operations)

[Nightmare]

You know I could never figure this out. Sure it's nice to be able to sneak up on enemy destroyers and other ships, and blow them to pieces, but in SH3 I was wondering why we could never have sub vs sub submerged combat. It seemed like it would make sense so I was thinking.."well...it will happen in SH4".

Now I hear that there won't be any sub vs sub battles in SH4 now. Ummm am I missing something here? Shouldn't this have been the very FIRST thing UBI made into this new game? I really hope that SH4 isn't SH3 with just prettier graphics. I REALLY HOPE NOT.

You are going to be greatly disappointed with SH4 then. It’s going to be SH3 with improved graphics in the Pacific with the US Submarines. Game play will be the same with some tweaks

Submarines of WW2 simply not engage each other submerged. Sonar was still a relatively new technology. Submarines of this era were designed to attack shipping and surface warships, not destroy other submarines. They simply didn’t have the technology to do it successfully. There was only one instance where another submarines successfully sunk another submerged submarines (read JU-88’s response), and it was more of dumb luck than anything else. It just did not happen. Historically speaking submarines engagements were where one sub caught the other one on the surface with its pants down.

[U-5000]

If you guys want to battle subs underwater maybe you ought to get Dangerous Waters this is where sub battles were fought. WW2 was a era not designed for this type of action, and I really don't understand why you would even care for this anyway.:damn:

[AG124]

Well, in terms of SHIII, the biggest problem with not having AI subs is that without them, there can be no wolfpacks and true mik cows. (There is a milk cow mod, and it is brilliant, but it's just not the same as actually having a real AI unit).

In SHIV, the previous two issues are not problems - there were no US milk cows and only limited wolfpack activity. However, there were some US wolfpacks, and many Japanese subs were sunk on the surface by US submarines (although only the US sub Corvina was sunk by a Japanese counterpart). I can understand how this would be very important for some players.

Personally, I would like to see AI programmed subs in SHIII (not going to happen now though), but I don't really care that much in SHIV, as I am more interested in sinking surface shipping anyway.

[Nightmare]

Personally, I would like to see AI programmed subs in SHIII (not going to happen now though), but I don't really care that much in SHIV, as I am more interested in sinking surface shipping anyway.
Exactly! It would be nice to catch the occasional Japanese sub on the surface, and running the risk of getting torpedoed while on the surface yourself. However I don’t want it at the sacrifice of other more important improvements.

[_Seth_]

You know there was one instance during WW2, where a British V class sub sunk a German IXD2 Uboat with a spread of torpedos while both vessels were submerged - the only instance of this ever happening in all of naval history.

I hate to arrest you, mate, but the uboat that was sunk was an ViiC, and it happend outside of Norway...
The V-class was british, but the crew was Norwegian.

From uboat.net:

U-974


Type

VIIC (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic.htm)

Laid down 26 Jun, 1942 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg (http://www.uboat.net/technical/shipyards/blohm.htm) Commissioned 22 Apr, 1943 Oblt. Joachim ZaubitzerCommanders 22 Apr, 1943 - 8 Nov, 1943 Joachim Zaubitzer9 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 Heinz Wolff Career 1 patrol 22 Apr, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1943 5. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/5flo2.htm) (training)
1 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 7. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/7flo.htm) (front boat)
Successes No ships sunk or damagedFate Sunk 19 April, 1944 in the North Sea (http://www.uboat.net/maps/north_sea.htm) by Stavanger, Norway, in position 59.08N, 05.23E, by torpedoes from Norwegian submarine HNoMS Ula (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3570.html). 42 dead and 8 survivors.
The loss of U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974)
The Norwegian submarine Ula fired a spread of 4 torpedoes towards U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) at the range of about 1200 meters. One of those hit the boat just aft of the conning tower causing a major explosion which shook the Ula which crash dived and during that dive they could hear the U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) break in two as it sank.
The boat was discovered in 1996 by a ROV at about 190m depth (ca. 580 feet). She is broken in two parts, one of about 15 meters and the second of around 40 meters in length. The wreck lies about 1000m south east of Loten on the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger, Norway.




From http://www.skovheim.org/located/rogaland/u974/u974.htm

The German submarine U 974 was torpedoed on 19. April 1944 by the Norwegian Submarine Ula when she was heading out from Bergen city, and the submarine broke in two pieces when she were hit by the torpedoes. The submarine sunk with forty two men in the deep, and only eight men of the crew survived this sinking. The German submarine had since she was laid down in Hamburg in 1942 been on only one patrol, thou without any sinking or sucesses. The sinking of U 974 was noted in the extremely effective German statistics and forgotten until 1996. The wreck was then discovered by the Norwegian navy vessel KNM Tyr with help from a ROV, which located the wreck at about 190m depth outside Stavanger city. The wreck lies approximately about one thousand meters south east of Loten in the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger city...

[BH]

Agree with the some of the other posters. Sub vs Sub was not a factor in the Second World War. Attacks on the surfaced happened very rarely.

The technology simply was not available to conduct submerged attacks against a submerged target.

Not to mention that most of the Japanese submarine force never left port as Japanese naval doctrine was to draw the enemy to the open and engage in large surface battles with battleships and heavy cruisers. The naval leadership largely underutilized their submarine force.

[Corsair]

@ Seth : Thks for info, was not aware of this event...

[GV_Darkata]

real game is uman vs uman no uman vs hardwer (stupid IA)
bye bye
sh2 vs Dc is real:)
sh3 vs stupid IA (DD artificial) no is real:cry:
noi ci divertiamo la sera su ubi a combattere sub vs sub, provate anche voi ciao

[Corsair]

Re SH3, if you talk about the stock game, I agree the DDs are no real challenge. If you play any supermod, that's another story... I play NYGM myself and can tell you they do a hell of a job chasing you. And GWX beta testers who are experienced players tell us they died more often than what they wanted...

PS : sorry my italian not good enough for the end of the post (except "ciao") ...

[DAB]

You know there was one instance during WW2, where a British V class sub sunk a German IXD2 Uboat with a spread of torpedos while both vessels were submerged - the only instance of this ever happening in all of naval history.

I hate to arrest you, mate, but the uboat that was sunk was an ViiC, and it happend outside of Norway...
The V-class was british, but the crew was Norwegian.

From uboat.net:

U-974


Type

VIIC (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic.htm)

Laid down 26 Jun, 1942 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg (http://www.uboat.net/technical/shipyards/blohm.htm) Commissioned 22 Apr, 1943 Oblt. Joachim ZaubitzerCommanders 22 Apr, 1943 - 8 Nov, 1943 Joachim Zaubitzer9 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 Heinz Wolff Career 1 patrol 22 Apr, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1943 5. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/5flo2.htm) (training)
1 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 7. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/7flo.htm) (front boat)
Successes No ships sunk or damagedFate Sunk 19 April, 1944 in the North Sea (http://www.uboat.net/maps/north_sea.htm) by Stavanger, Norway, in position 59.08N, 05.23E, by torpedoes from Norwegian submarine HNoMS Ula (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3570.html). 42 dead and 8 survivors.
The loss of U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974)
The Norwegian submarine Ula fired a spread of 4 torpedoes towards U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) at the range of about 1200 meters. One of those hit the boat just aft of the conning tower causing a major explosion which shook the Ula which crash dived and during that dive they could hear the U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) break in two as it sank.
The boat was discovered in 1996 by a ROV at about 190m depth (ca. 580 feet). She is broken in two parts, one of about 15 meters and the second of around 40 meters in length. The wreck lies about 1000m south east of Loten on the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger, Norway.




From http://www.skovheim.org/located/rogaland/u974/u974.htm

The German submarine U 974 was torpedoed on 19. April 1944 by the Norwegian Submarine Ula when she was heading out from Bergen city, and the submarine broke in two pieces when she were hit by the torpedoes. The submarine sunk with forty two men in the deep, and only eight men of the crew survived this sinking. The German submarine had since she was laid down in Hamburg in 1942 been on only one patrol, thou without any sinking or sucesses. The sinking of U 974 was noted in the extremely effective German statistics and forgotten until 1996. The wreck was then discovered by the Norwegian navy vessel KNM Tyr with help from a ROV, which located the wreck at about 190m depth outside Stavanger city. The wreck lies approximately about one thousand meters south east of Loten in the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger city...

Actually Ju-88 was referring to a different incident in 1945. I've posted on this in the past here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=342613&postcount=29

[Takeda Shingen]

real game is uman vs uman no uman vs hardwer (stupid IA)
bye bye
sh2 vs Dc is real:)
sh3 vs stupid IA (DD artificial) no is real:cry:
noi ci divertiamo la sera su ubi a combattere sub vs sub, provate anche voi ciao



SH2/DC, regarless of single or multi-play, is a broken shell of a game, with problems too numerous and well-documented to warrant further explaination here. No serious argument can be made to place it on a higher plane of existence than even SH3 single player.

[_Seth_]

I stand at ease. Thanx for that info, mate,i wasnt aware of this. I will quote the info given about this other event:
The sinking of [U864] was unique in submarine history since both boats were submerged at the time of the attack. [HMS] Venturer detected the Uboat on her ASDIC and developed a good plot using the Type 129 ASDIC in passive mode - to transmit a ping would have given the game away. What Venturer's commanding officer, Lieutenant JS Launders, later described as 'the most shameful periscope drill' on the part of the U-boat, gave him two good sightings of the German's Periscipe. When Launders judged the moment right, he fired four Mk VIII torpedos down the bearing and was rewarded with one hit. When Venturer surfaced, Launders found oil, wooden wreckage and a large metal cylinder, later identified as the container for the Focke-Achegelis FA-330 autogyro: all that remained of U864

So we have two incidents of submerged sub vs. sub action.

[Keelbuster]

We need wolfpacks. Why can't Ubi bite the bullet and build AI subs with full functionality (leave from port, patrol, surface, dive, attack convoys, deck gun attack, evade)? Sure, it's work, but it's worth it to have the best sub simulation. I can't imagine that they would go through with building another game if they werent' going to give us AI subs/wolfpacks. That is, unless they were looking for a way to squeeze another buck out of us for the SH3 engine.

Kb

[edjcox]

The new boat had just passed through the Panama Canal. It reached the Pacific and it's green crew was looking foraward to showing off it's stuff.

The two week training respite on the southern end of the Canal improved their abilities and reaction times. The new boat still presented a large outline and was so very easy for the Japanese sub to spot and track. The Gato was not yet shifting course and speed to randomly the Japanese skipper took a bead on her.

A salvo of three ripped through the water just as the cooks assistant tossed the two weighted canvas sacks of garbage into the wake and lit his cigarette...

The first torpedo ripped through the water just 10 yards ahead of the starboard bow. Scanning instinctively towards the direction of the topedo's origin, the cook gasped as he saw the two wakes running dead at him from the starboard just amidships.

The detonations were near simultaneous as the GATO's hull was ripped apart and the second torpedo breached the preassure hull at the control centers level.
She lifted from the water bodily as the deep explosion broke her keel.

The Japanese had surmised the scheduled departure of the Gato. Her agents in Panama had signalled the arrival and departure time. This was one GATO that would never fire a shot against the Japanese Imperial Navy.

It was over wthin minutes, oil, debis and little else remained floating on the surface. Even the Watch crew on the Conning tower and the cooks assistants bodies were mangled and torn asunder.

The skipper of the Gato had been warned about possible Japanese submarines in the area, he had spent the last night at a bar, and was drunkenly asleep. His second officer had just left the deck when the torpedoes struck.......




Sub to Sub combat...... A vital element...


:arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

What boat? What captain? What Japanese sub and skipper? References?

Or if this is just a story you made up (and it is a pretty good one), it's hardly proof that sub vs sub combat is, as you put it, vital.

Oh, that would be a great game: just out of harbor on first patrol. "Game Over". Cause? "You were torpedoed by a japanese sub."

[Threadfin]

Sub v sub was not so rare. Both submerged, yes, I understand that was rare, actually, I didn't know of any examples until this thread. But in the Pacific a large number of surfaced Japanese subs were sunk by US subs, including one boat that sank three Japanese subs on a single patrol (Batfish). As far as I know, only one known example of a US sub lost to Japanese sub. I recall in Silent Victory the comment that ironically this US boat was lost to the sub it was sent to intercept.

Batfish's 6th war patrol http://www.ussbatfish.com/patrol-6.html

[Threadfin]

I echo Steve's questions. What Gato boat was sunk outside Panama? I've not seen this in any source.

I suppose Ed is just painting the picture for us is all.

[edjcox]

This was a totally fictional writeup....

Some of you take this "Game" far to seriously for your own health.....

I thought the scenario might be of interest and perhaps spur some thoughts in the developers.

I kind of took some of this from one of my Sub books. In the book they survived only by firing off a few flares in the air low to the water between them and their pursuer... Blinded the Japanese and their night optics momentarily, it was enough for the GATO to port over the helm and crash dive... The crew was shook and they took the dive drills and other excersizes between Panama and Pearl more seriously... At depth they ran silent for 4 hours and surfaced in the dawn....

Did the drunk skipper piss you off?? Just a theatric element to elicit emotion.. Must have worked..

Laters..

EJ

:smug:

[Sailor Steve]

No, nothing in the story bothered me at all; in fact, I thought it was great. What bothered me was that you seemed to claim it as a justification for the call for sub-to-sub combat, so I thought it might be real.

[GV_Darkata]

http://darkata.altervista.org/u-zait.JPG

[GV_Darkata]

http://darkata.altervista.org/gicgic.JPG

[bigboywooly]

Sub V Sub eh

P615 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/page7.html)18.4.43Torpedoed and sunk off West Africa by German U-123.

P615 ex-Turkish - Uluc Ali Reis - Uluc Ali Reis was being built for Turkey at start of war. Decided to complete and retain in RN. Similar to British S Class. Completed in April 42. Co-star of the film "We Dive at Dawn", with P614 (last digit of pennant number painted over). Escorted convoy PQ17 to Murmansk 1942. Left Freetown, Liberia, 17 April 43 bound for Takoradi under escort from the minesweeper MM107. During the night submarine and escort lost contact and on the morning of the 18th the minesweeper sighted what was thought to be a torpedo track, pass from port to starboard. Contact was gained with P615 and as there was no evidence of a U-boat in the area the torpedo track was put down to a porpoise. P615 and MM107 regained visual contact and the minesweeper took station 300 yards off the submarine’s starboard quarter. At 0950 the minesweeper sighted the merchant vessel Empire Bruce and whilst signalling the ship, noticed that P615 was also signalling. A few minutes later the submarine was seen to explode and sink. Observers suggest that the submarine had been hit on her starboard side by a torpedo although no torpedo track had been seen. She had been hit by a torpedo fired from German Type IXb U-boat U-123. See a personal recollection (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/p614.html). (The U-123 had been one of the most successful of all submarines in the war, sinking well over 220,000 tons of shipping. It was later taken over by the French as Blaison and served as until 1959).

Parthian ( BR )

Known as 'Peanut' - this class had identity letters on the tower (Parthian being 'PN' - PeaNut.). 20-Jun-40 sank Italian S/M Diamante off Tobruk. Landed an agent off Crete 20 July 1940. Sank Carlo Martinolich, 4,200 tons, off Cape Spartivento, Calabria, 31 Dec 40. 25-Jun-41 sank Vichy French S/M Souffleur during British/Free French campaign to occupy Lebanon and Syria. Adopted by Boston, Lincs 1942. Refitted in USA end of 41 to March 42. 1942-43 back in Med. Supply runs to Malta in July, October and November 42, transporting aviation fuel and ammunition. To gain space, one battery was removed and no spare torpedoes were carried. Sank several caiques in the Aegean May/June 43 (Lt. St. John). (Lt C.A. Pardoe RNR) Presumed mined in Adriatic July/August 1943, having sailed from Malta on 22-July for patrol west of Greece and southern Adriatic

Triad ( BR )

(R.D.C.P. Jonas DSC, Cdr. E.R.J. Oddie DSC, Lt Cdr George S Salt DSC), 14-Oct-39 to 15-Nov-39, First uneventful patrol. 18-Nov-39 to 4-Dec-39 - On second patrol off The Naze, Norway, damaged a hydroplane shaft and had to be towed to Stavanger for repairs. Only 48 hours was allowed in the (then) neutral port but the work was carried out within the time and she returned to Rosyth. 16-Dec-39 to 28-Mar-40. Carried out 4 uneventful patrols in North Sea. 8-20 April 1940. Patrol area off the entrance to Oslo Fjord, during which, on the 11th, she sank the merchant ship Ionia 3,012 tons in the Skagerrak, and on the 20th she sank a second ship of 4,400 tons. 27-Jun40 to 13-Jul-40. Attacked a suspected 'Q' ship, a Swedish steamer and was counter-attacked. 27-Jul to 4-Aug-40. On the way home, on 3 Aug, attacked a U-boat, the Type VIIb U-46, with gunfire without success, neither boat was able to attack the other with torpedoes. 29-Aug to 6-Sep-40. After a short refit at Dundee, joined 1st SM Flotilla at Gibraltar. 11-Sep to 2-Oct-40. Patrol area, north Tyrrhenian Sea. 9-Oct to 20-Oct-40. This patrol, which was to be her last, was off the coast of Libya and she was then to proceed to Alexandria. (Possibly) Became the first 'T' class sunk in Med 38'16N-17'37E - 'overdue, presumed lost'. Recent research suggests Triad was sunk by the gunfire of Italian Balilla-class submarine Enrico Toti on the 15th October, rather than Rainbow as was believed for many years. It also suggests her patrol area was off the coast of Calabria in the Ionian Sea and not Libya.

Ultimatum ( BR )

Lt P.R.H. Harrison DSO DSC. 10th Flotilla, (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/malta.html) Malta. Sank Italian s/m Ammiraglio Enrico Millo off Cape Stilo, Calabria, Ionian Sea, 14-Mar-1942. Operations Harpoon/Vigorous (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/harpoon.html), off Taranto, June 42. Attacked a U-boat - probably the U-77, on 24 June 42 with 4 torpedoes at very long range (7000 yds) and claimed a possible hit but this was probably a torpedo hitting the sea bed. Her position was north of Tobruk (34°20N 24°09E). For many years was credited with the sinking of German Type VIIC submarine U-431 on 30 October 1943. However, cross-referencing records has shown that the attack was on the Type VIIB U-73, but had caused no damage.

And of course Upholder ( BR )

Lt Cdr Malcolm David Wanklyn VC, DSO DSC RN. Most successful of all British submarines. Some More Details (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/upholder.html). 10th Flotilla (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/malta.html), Malta. 25 patrols. 24-May-41 attacked a strongly escorted troop convoy off the coast of Sicily, sinking 18,000-ton liner Conte Rosso. Sank Tembien 27/2/42 400+ POWs lost. Wanklyn was awarded the Victoria Cross for this and previous actions. 18-Sep-41, sinks the 19,500-ton transports Neptunia and Oceania, making for Tripoli. 9 Nov 41, sank the Italian destroyer Libeccio. Sunk Italian s/m Saint Bon north of Sicily 5-Jan-42. Sunk Italian s/m Tricheco off Brindisi, southern Adriatic, 18-Mar-42. Sunk, in all, 2 destroyers, 3 submarines, 3 transports, 10 supply ships, 2 tankers, 1 trawler, totalling 128,353 tons. (Records according to 'Periscope Patrol' by John Frayn Turner

No doubt if I looked at every British sub on this site I could find more

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/ww2sm2.html

[Threadfin]

This was a totally fictional writeup....

Some of you take this "Game" far to seriously for your own health.....
What are you on about? Only two of us responded and both of us surmised you had made it up. And in case you were claiming it was an actual event we were asking for a source.


I kind of took some of this from one of my Sub books.
Which book is that?

Did the drunk skipper piss you off?? Just a theatric element to elicit emotion.. Must have worked..


I think the only one pissed in this thread is your fictional skipper.

[CCIP]

Forget the historical part of it! I think there are much better ways of enjoying a good time in multiplayer than trying to kill invisible targets with clumsy weapons not designed for the purpose. It's sort of like what I did for a bit with Battlefield games for a bit, trying to shoot down planes with artillery guns and grenade launchers. Sure it might seem neat for its novelty, but ultimately it either becomes a stupidly inefficient excercise that adds nothing to the experience. Or you cheat and turn it into some strange fetish of killing lotsa subs in a way they never should have been... When clearly there are far more vital parts of the gameplay to invest the effort in.

SHIV's convoy command mode, meanwhile, I more than welcome with open arms. I predict that, provided we get past any teething troubles, it will be far, far better and more appropriate than DC vs SH2 could ever dream of being.

[GV_Darkata]

ok CCip, you prefer to play vs. IA (intelligenza artificial ) aerei,dd, ecc. ecc.
my prefer to play vs. UMAN intelligent.;)

bye bye GV_Darkata (secondo a nessuno)

alcuni di voi nel gioco cercano la realta' ma dove stà.. è solo un gioco e basta,
alcuni non giocano vs altri sub. perchè nella storia non è mai successo uno scontro tra sub. (che poi non è vero ) e quindi non è reale,:o a me mi fate solo ridere.
ciao:lol:

ditemi che piacere provate a silurare una petroliera che è praticamente ferma e non ha la possibilita di difendersi, o combattere contro dei DD che quando gli lanci un siluro neanche si scostano per evitarlo questo è reale???????????
bye bye scusate se ho scritto in italiano traducete voi
http://darkata.altervista.org/nobby.JPG
http://darkata.altervista.org/acri.JPG

[CCIP]

But I don't. I just prefer to play against UMAN with a right weapon. That's why I think the escort command mode for SHIV will be great.

[GV_Darkata]

http://darkata.altervista.org/ruiz.JPG

[Kumando]

Wake up italian dude, sub vs sub underwater in ww2 isnt realistic thats not what they did there wasnt technologie avaible for that if it happened it was pure luck so farfanculo cabroni.

[badhat17]

You know there was one instance during WW2, where a British V class sub sunk a German IXD2 Uboat with a spread of torpedos while both vessels were submerged - the only instance of this ever happening in all of naval history.

I hate to arrest you, mate, but the uboat that was sunk was an ViiC, and it happend outside of Norway...
The V-class was british, but the crew was Norwegian.

From uboat.net:

U-974


Type

VIIC (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic.htm)

Laid down 26 Jun, 1942 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg (http://www.uboat.net/technical/shipyards/blohm.htm) Commissioned 22 Apr, 1943 Oblt. Joachim ZaubitzerCommanders 22 Apr, 1943 - 8 Nov, 1943 Joachim Zaubitzer9 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 Heinz Wolff Career 1 patrol 22 Apr, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1943 5. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/5flo2.htm) (training)
1 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 7. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/7flo.htm) (front boat)
Successes No ships sunk or damagedFate Sunk 19 April, 1944 in the North Sea (http://www.uboat.net/maps/north_sea.htm) by Stavanger, Norway, in position 59.08N, 05.23E, by torpedoes from Norwegian submarine HNoMS Ula (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3570.html). 42 dead and 8 survivors.
The loss of U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974)
The Norwegian submarine Ula fired a spread of 4 torpedoes towards U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) at the range of about 1200 meters. One of those hit the boat just aft of the conning tower causing a major explosion which shook the Ula which crash dived and during that dive they could hear the U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) break in two as it sank.
The boat was discovered in 1996 by a ROV at about 190m depth (ca. 580 feet). She is broken in two parts, one of about 15 meters and the second of around 40 meters in length. The wreck lies about 1000m south east of Loten on the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger, Norway.




From http://www.skovheim.org/located/rogaland/u974/u974.htm

The German submarine U 974 was torpedoed on 19. April 1944 by the Norwegian Submarine Ula when she was heading out from Bergen city, and the submarine broke in two pieces when she were hit by the torpedoes. The submarine sunk with forty two men in the deep, and only eight men of the crew survived this sinking. The German submarine had since she was laid down in Hamburg in 1942 been on only one patrol, thou without any sinking or sucesses. The sinking of U 974 was noted in the extremely effective German statistics and forgotten until 1996. The wreck was then discovered by the Norwegian navy vessel KNM Tyr with help from a ROV, which located the wreck at about 190m depth outside Stavanger city. The wreck lies approximately about one thousand meters south east of Loten in the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger city...
I see no mention that both or infact either submarine was submerged during this engagement. As there were eight survivors from the U-boat then it would indicate to me that the U-boat was struck departing its base while still on the surface.

[GV_Darkata]

un altro sommergibile non tornerà alla sua base, il suo battello è diventata la sua bara d'acciaio:D :D

http://www.image-share.net//image/12134/meyer1[1].jpg

[flintlock]

Looks like someone needs his caffeine before attempting to post in the morning. :)

[Onkel Neal]

I for one will miss the inclusion of Japanese AI subs in SH4. One of my few regrets with SH3 was the lack of AI U-boats to form wolfpacks. Wolfpacks would not have been a huge improvement on the gameplay but they would have definitely added to the immersion aspect. I don't understand the programming challenges of adding a vessel unit in the game that can descend below the surface; the AI surface units are set to interact with the surface and the AI air units are designed to exist above the surface.

I understand the time frame that Ubisoft gave the dev team was very short, about a year. I assume (guessing , really) that the AI Jap sub omission is mainly due to that, it's a feature that cannot be fit in to the schedule. Creating a stable SH4, even with SH3 as a foundation, is a really big task, especially given that the dev team has improved many areas of the game as well as the graphics. Not everything one may wish for is feasible and I accept that. Still, how cool would it have been to be stalking a maru… you cripple it with a well placed torpedo…and you decide to surface and finish it off with the deck gun… you instruct the lookouts to keep a sharp eye out for planes…and while the deck crew is firing the 5" gun, you see something strange off to the side… a funny little wave that doesn't belong, a wake…. by golly, there's something out there. Is that a fish or dolphin? Did the dev team sneak some aquatics in…no! :o holy moly! That's a periscope wake…and then watch as twin torpedo tracks emerge and streak straight towards you.

Yeah… that would have been sweet :know: Maybe we can put together a Subsim mod team and make that work.

[flintlock]

Yeah… that would have been sweet. Maybe we can put together a Subsim mod team and make that work.Definitely would have been a great assest. Though I suspect you'd need to assemble more of an experienced and talented dev team to make that happen. That, or an investor that can entice Yves Guillemot to sign over the franchise license and source code. ;)

[GV_Darkata]

Yeah… that would have been sweet :know: Maybe we can put together a Subsim mod team and make that work

good idea!! Neal Stevens :up: :up:

Ciao un saluto a Tutti dal Comandante GV_Darkata
(secondo a nessuno)

visitate il mio forum dei "Gentiluomini di Ventura)
http://silenthunter.forumfree.net/

[peterloo]

:ping: So far I don't think it has been confirmed that there even are any Japanese subs in SH4. However, I recall the sinking of Japanese subs in SH1 was a rather dull affair. They just sailed placidly along until you put a torpedo in 'em. They didn't try and submerge even if you missed or had a premature detonation. If there are Japanese subs I hope they are a little more awake. :cool:

That's where modders come to party... Now we get Gato for SH3... cool! :ping:

[DaMaGe007]

I dont think a moder will be able to release a mod for Sh3 with Sh4 models in it, Copyright will mess up that idea. But Its possible a moder could write a Merger program which if you have both installed could allow sh3 moddels in 4 and Sh4 models in 3, even a supermod like Greywolves could have several install options depending on whats available as to which scr layers it uses ect.

Little bit of extra work, but well worth it imo.

Doesnt really adress the Sub AI issues tho.

[GV_Darkata]

:D :D :D http://www.image-share.net//image/12134/1.JPG1.jpg

[GV_Darkata]

WELCOME TO ALL

http://silenthunter.forumfree.net/?f=2750636

[JU_88]

You know there was one instance during WW2, where a British V class sub sunk a German IXD2 Uboat with a spread of torpedos while both vessels were submerged - the only instance of this ever happening in all of naval history.

I hate to arrest you, mate, but the uboat that was sunk was an ViiC, and it happend outside of Norway...
The V-class was british, but the crew was Norwegian.

From uboat.net:

U-974


Type

VIIC (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic.htm)

Laid down 26 Jun, 1942 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg (http://www.uboat.net/technical/shipyards/blohm.htm) Commissioned 22 Apr, 1943 Oblt. Joachim ZaubitzerCommanders 22 Apr, 1943 - 8 Nov, 1943 Joachim Zaubitzer9 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 Heinz Wolff Career 1 patrol 22 Apr, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1943 5. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/5flo2.htm) (training)
1 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 7. Flottille (http://www.uboat.net/flotillas/7flo.htm) (front boat)
Successes No ships sunk or damagedFate Sunk 19 April, 1944 in the North Sea (http://www.uboat.net/maps/north_sea.htm) by Stavanger, Norway, in position 59.08N, 05.23E, by torpedoes from Norwegian submarine HNoMS Ula (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3570.html). 42 dead and 8 survivors.
The loss of U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974)
The Norwegian submarine Ula fired a spread of 4 torpedoes towards U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) at the range of about 1200 meters. One of those hit the boat just aft of the conning tower causing a major explosion which shook the Ula which crash dived and during that dive they could hear the U-974 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=974) break in two as it sank.
The boat was discovered in 1996 by a ROV at about 190m depth (ca. 580 feet). She is broken in two parts, one of about 15 meters and the second of around 40 meters in length. The wreck lies about 1000m south east of Loten on the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger, Norway.




From http://www.skovheim.org/located/rogaland/u974/u974.htm

The German submarine U 974 was torpedoed on 19. April 1944 by the Norwegian Submarine Ula when she was heading out from Bergen city, and the submarine broke in two pieces when she were hit by the torpedoes. The submarine sunk with forty two men in the deep, and only eight men of the crew survived this sinking. The German submarine had since she was laid down in Hamburg in 1942 been on only one patrol, thou without any sinking or sucesses. The sinking of U 974 was noted in the extremely effective German statistics and forgotten until 1996. The wreck was then discovered by the Norwegian navy vessel KNM Tyr with help from a ROV, which located the wreck at about 190m depth outside Stavanger city. The wreck lies approximately about one thousand meters south east of Loten in the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger city...
I see no mention that both or infact either submarine was submerged during this engagement. As there were eight survivors from the U-boat then it would indicate to me that the U-boat was struck departing its base while still on the surface.



Nope I was right all along, a V-class sunk an IXD2 in 45- saw a documentry on it a few weeks back so tttthhhhhppppppthhh!!!! at both you unbelievers.