Possible future SHV???

[tonibamestre]

Hi All and developers,
Great excitement expecting the evolution ans release of the new SHIV,wi ll see by next year.....

Now,following this project and counting that submarine simulators look to have quite a lot aceptation,what about to start working on a brand new SH5? A sub sim starting on the nuclear age,with the first nuclear powered submarines developed on the 60s.Of course,here we would not have big convoys to attack,but being alert and listening for surface units and other subs.For that,I would bet for the implementation of lets say 2 or 3 very detailed 3D subs from USN and another 2 or 3 from Soviet Navy,in order to be able to engage and underwater hunt on multiplayer sessions mainly.
Also,we could add to this sim the capability of early ballistic missile submarines,giving way to the player common sense,controlling such underwater power.

What you think about guys??

Best regards.

[JU_88]

You should be asking for Dangerous waters 2 not Silent Hunter V me thinks. :hmm:
Silent hunter has always been about WW2 subs... changing that might just incite riots outside Ubisofts offices. :rock:

I garrentee you that some one will reply to this thread saying that SHV should be WW1 Uboats, another will say it should be British Subs, someone else will agree with you about a cold war sim and another will want it to be WW2 Uboats all over again.... in reality who knows if we will even get an SHV?

[Payoff]

I think SHV should be an accurate simulation of the American Civil War Iron Clads.:lol:

[Sulikate]

I think SHV should be an accurate simulation of the American Civil War Iron Clads.:lol:
:huh: - :lol:

[tonibamestre]

Gentlemen, my opinion about the future of SH is that needs to grew forward till cover our days if possible. Dont worry if we have other sims covering it,be sure that no other simulators at the moment can reach the graphics level developed by Ubi team.
So,I bet again for an early cold war period sub sim,followed or expandet with new platforms as the time goes by.

Thanks.

[TDK1044]

Sales of SH4 would have to be impressive in order for Ubisoft to even consider SH5. If Ubisoft were to go for a modern day subsim, I don't think it would be part of the Silent Hunter series.

Personally, I think SH4 may well be the last WW2 subsim developed for quite some time.

[FIREWALL]

Why not Flying subs? That way we can cmbine flight sims with sub sims.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Safe-Keeper]

"Silent Hunter 5: Terror from the Deep"
Melikes:up:.

[TDK1044]

How about an alien additon called 'Silent Saucers. Plates From Deep Space.' imagine the mods!:D

[I-25]

I garrentee you that some one will reply to this thread saying that SHV should be WW1 Uboats, another will say it should be British Subs, someone else will agree with you about a cold war sim and another will want it to be WW2 Uboats all over again....

And dont forget the jap subsim ww2 crowd...:yep:

[Safe-Keeper]

Give me two Sonic Oscillators, some extraterrestrial submarines to "dogfight" with underwater, and Triton subs carrying aquanauts with Gauss rifles... And I'm happy:up:. Imagine strafing aliens on the bottom while they fight a squad of X-Com divers from TRITON-1.

I garrentee you that some one will reply to this thread saying that SHV should be WW1 Uboats, another will say it should be British Subs, someone else will agree with you about a cold war sim and another will want it to be WW2 Uboats all over again.... in reality who knows if we will even get an SHV?Right. There've only been thousands of threads like this one already.

[Bort]

Now,following this project and counting that submarine simulators look to have quite a lot aceptation,what about to start working on a brand new SH5? A sub sim starting on the nuclear age,with the first nuclear powered submarines developed on the 60s.Of course,here we would not have big convoys to attack,but being alert and listening for surface units and other subs.For that,I would bet for the implementation of lets say 2 or 3 very detailed 3D subs from USN and another 2 or 3 from Soviet Navy,in order to be able to engage and underwater hunt on multiplayer sessions mainly.
Also,we could add to this sim the capability of early ballistic missile submarines,giving way to the player common sense,controlling such underwater power.
SHV, if it happens, should definitely be Cold War era.
I think the time frame should be more around the early 80's, with Sturgeon and LA class US subs and Alfa, Victor and Charlie class Soviet subs being modeled. Perhaps SSBN's as well, but I would be happy enough with what I have listed above. Dangerous Waters has done a spectacular job of creating a spot on hard core simulation, but what I and I think a good deal of the subsimming community really craves is a graphically immersive game with an easier to use interface like SH3.
For now though, bring on SHIV, and lets go hunting!:rock:

[Syxx_Killer]

I always thought of Silent Hunter as a moniker for a nuke subsim. When I first heard of Silent Hunter way back when, I think I was playing 688(i) Hunter/Killer at the time. I thought Silent Hunter would be a nuke sim. When I found out about it being WWII, I thought, "How is that silent?" :lol: I would be nice to see a nuke sime with modern graphics. I love Dangerous Waters and all, but I sure wish the graphics were updated. On the other hand, when I think of a company like Ubisoft making a nuke sim, how would they accomplish that? Sonalysts know how to do it right. I don't think Ubisoft would have that knowledge.:-?

[Hylander_1314]

If the Developer does another subsim after SHIV, we should consider ourselves very fortunate. Nomatter what era they decide to get into.

[Nightmare]

Cold War era would be interesting (and a huge change for the Silent Hunter series), but Dangerous Waters has already filled that role. Modern nuclear submarines spend very little time on the surface (in transit to and from base), and very little time at periscope depth. 98% of the time they are deep where they are in their element. Now if you exclude (for realism sake) external views there really isn’t anything to look at besides sonar consoles, which aren’t going to look any better running the latest greatest CPU and GPU combo than they do in DW.

Pre-nuclear age submarines are where you are going to get the best benefit when it comes to graphics. This is because subs before nuclear power were nothing more than boats that could submerge to hide or attack. They also relied on optical means for targeting.

Besides, let's at least let SH4 hit the shelves and go thru it's period of time for patches before moving on to the next title. For all anybody knows, SH4 could sell poorly and it could be the last title we see under the Silent Hunter name.

[TheSatyr]

Silent Hunter V,The Civil War:You as Captain of the Hunley must attempt to sink the Housatonic without 1) Having your sub dive for no apparent reason whiping you and your crew out or 2) Getting your explosive tipped spear thingy stuck on your sub after hitting the Housatonic.

It also come with a bonus Revolutionary War scenario: The Turtle vs the Royal Navy.

It also features interviews with Leonardo DaVinci and Cpt.Nemo. :rotfl:

[tonibamestre]

We must think about the great Ubi graphics characteristics. An almost global underwater detailed terrain,with mud areas, sand,and big submarine canyons and corridors to be used by submarines to avoid being detected. All this,in conjunction with the full capability to try to hunt or intercept a big Carrier Battle Group,etc, and having the opposite side to try to avoid it at all.

I really think Ubi. development team should start thinking about it once the SH4 reaches the stores.
If not,maybe some other good naval developer could think about it.....;)

Thanks a lot.

:up:

[Steeltrap]

The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me are:

They are entirely hypothetical - there have not been any significant conflicts at sea on the scale of WWII Atlantic/Pacific. Hard to be immersed in something that's never happened - you don't get that "gee, I'm getting a feeling for what this was like" when it's never been!

They are 'sterile'. It's all high-powered sensors and wire-guided or self-guided. Get yourself in the right spot and the system can deliver a firing solution and then execute it. No more peering through the mist from the bridge of a diesel sub as you hunt convoys etc. Also no deck guns/flak.

The development of technologies through WWII was dramatic. ASW weapons and tactics improved massively in the Atlantic while subs didn't, resulting in a crushing defeat of the subs. In the Pacific, the development was largely on the part of the subs, which is why they maintained/improved their advantages and won a resounding victory. This progress is one of the real attractions of the era, as your situation changes as your/the enemy's technologies change. Reminds me of the great Red Baron where you sweated when the opposition got a new toy (twin MGs, biplanes, better performing engines/airframes) that put them at an advantage, then made hay when your own tech had leap-frogged theirs. This simply doesn't happen in 'modern' times in that the advantages remain pretty much with the Western Powers throughout.

For these reasons I don't have any real interest in post-WWII subsims. I think many of the people who have played all the SH series would be of a similar mind (that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken).

[Achtung Englander]

modern sub sim game would be very dull because since 1945 has a sub actually been used in anger except to shoot cruise missiles against Iraq ?

a sub game that mimicks Hunt for Red October would be boring as a modern sun can stay submerged for months :down:

[Ultraboy]

It'll never happen, but it would be kind of cool to see the earliest prototypes for nuclear subs in a game like SH3/SH4. I'm talking like Nautilus, or the Soviet November class.

The only way I can see it being implemented though is if you had a dynamic campaign that could be prolonged through your own actions. For instance, you spend WW2 driving your VII and your XXI to such perfection, that the allies haven't invaded even by 1945. Then, as the war goes on, new technologies become available like some kind of fantastic nuclear sub prototype, as well as other new techs that never saw action in the war.

I realize that sounds kind of lame considering the historical accuracy put forth in all the Ubi titles to date, but that kind of "what-if" gamey-ness is the only way you'll ever see a nuclear sub in Silent Hunter IMO.

...barring any kind of fantastic mod, that is. :lol:

[Safe-Keeper]

The Silent Hunter series is about World War II subs. Better to give it a new name and attach a "From the makers of the Silent Hunter™ series"-sticker to the game packaging if they are to make it non-World War II.

I wouldn't be too opposed to a Cold War sim, but I'd much, much rather have a World War I or II submarine simulator again.

[JordanC]

The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me are:

They are entirely hypothetical - there have not been any significant conflicts at sea on the scale of WWII Atlantic/Pacific. Hard to be immersed in something that's never happened - you don't get that "gee, I'm getting a feeling for what this was like" when it's never been!

They are 'sterile'. It's all high-powered sensors and wire-guided or self-guided. Get yourself in the right spot and the system can deliver a firing solution and then execute it. No more peering through the mist from the bridge of a diesel sub as you hunt convoys etc. Also no deck guns/flak.

The development of technologies through WWII was dramatic. ASW weapons and tactics improved massively in the Atlantic while subs didn't, resulting in a crushing defeat of the subs. In the Pacific, the development was largely on the part of the subs, which is why they maintained/improved their advantages and won a resounding victory. This progress is one of the real attractions of the era, as your situation changes as your/the enemy's technologies change. Reminds me of the great Red Baron where you sweated when the opposition got a new toy (twin MGs, biplanes, better performing engines/airframes) that put them at an advantage, then made hay when your own tech had leap-frogged theirs. This simply doesn't happen in 'modern' times in that the advantages remain pretty much with the Western Powers throughout.

For these reasons I don't have any real interest in post-WWII subsims. I think many of the people who have played all the SH series would be of a similar mind (that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken).

I'm really sick of those "fire and forget" stereotypes. I could say that you just point and click in WWII sims, especially with those damn magnetic torpedoes.

[Agrippa]

SH5 will require you to have the space for them to build a life-size submarine, which will be crewed entirely by robots (who can speak in german or english, whichever you like), and which will simulate all stations accurately. It will move on gimbals and shake, giving you the experience of really diving and really being attacked. If you die, explosives placed at strategic places throughout the sub will explode, providing an accurate simulation of death and preventing constant whining about a pathetic "death screen."

[bookworm_020]

SH5 will require you to have the space for them to build a life-size submarine, which will be crewed entirely by robots (who can speak in german or english, whichever you like), and which will simulate all stations accurately. It will move on gimbals and shake, giving you the experience of really diving and really being attacked. If you die, explosives placed at strategic places throughout the sub will explode, providing an accurate simulation of death and preventing constant whining about a pathetic "death screen."
:o


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

For thoese who want to dead is dead, this will be the sim for you! If this is the case, the market for SHVI is going to be seriously depleated by the time the game is relased!

[AS]

I have to agree with Nightmare and Steeltrap. Nuclear submarines are just boring to simulate because the whole submarine tactics are sterile and indirect. I´ve "played" "Fast Attack", 688i and the latest version which they sell as a full-prize game although it´s nothing more than a modded version using the same old graphics. If people like gazing at waterfall displays, let them play 688I Hunter-Killer. No need to have waterfall-displays using 3.0 shaders and dual core CPUs. If you ask me, SH5 should be about the Atlantic theatre again. Reasons? - the Atlantic offers the widest range of variety, technological development and historical scenerios - the Atlantic U.Boat war was the toughest, most challenging and most excessive submarine war ever - it was also the most famous (and infamous) one - SH3 may be considered the best WW2 subsim ever - but why? Is it because it is so great or is it because there aren´t any alternatives??? Consider the work all those modders have put into it so far and you´ll agree that much could have done better. Cheers, AS

[1mPHUNit0]

But i think, a more important decision drive to Atlantic,
SH4..........>65TH of Pearl harbour
SH5..........> German nazi fashon always on stage

[bill clarke]

SHV, a WWI sub sim, or a WWII IJN sub sim.

[Takeda Shingen]

I have to agree with Nightmare and Steeltrap. Nuclear submarines are just boring to simulate because the whole submarine tactics are sterile and indirect. I´ve "played" "Fast Attack", 688i and the latest version which they sell as a full-prize game although it´s nothing more than a modded version using the same old graphics. If people like gazing at waterfall displays, let them play 688I Hunter-Killer. No need to have waterfall-displays using 3.0 shaders and dual core CPUs. If you ask me, SH5 should be about the Atlantic theatre again. Reasons? - the Atlantic offers the widest range of variety, technological development and historical scenerios - the Atlantic U.Boat war was the toughest, most challenging and most excessive submarine war ever - it was also the most famous (and infamous) one - SH3 may be considered the best WW2 subsim ever - but why? Is it because it is so great or is it because there aren´t any alternatives??? Consider the work all those modders have put into it so far and you´ll agree that much could have done better. Cheers, AS

I like modern submarine simulations.

Anyway, as I said in a much, much earlier thread, I think that SHV should be a test ordnance retrieval trawler simulation, SHVI should feature the Turtle, and SHXXVII should be set in the future world of 3054. I look forward to zipping about the ocean at a depth of 7000 feet doing mach 3.

Once again, let's get SHIV first.

[Steeltrap]

The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me are:

They are entirely hypothetical - there have not been any significant conflicts at sea on the scale of WWII Atlantic/Pacific. Hard to be immersed in something that's never happened - you don't get that "gee, I'm getting a feeling for what this was like" when it's never been!

They are 'sterile'. It's all high-powered sensors and wire-guided or self-guided. Get yourself in the right spot and the system can deliver a firing solution and then execute it. No more peering through the mist from the bridge of a diesel sub as you hunt convoys etc. Also no deck guns/flak.

The development of technologies through WWII was dramatic. ASW weapons and tactics improved massively in the Atlantic while subs didn't, resulting in a crushing defeat of the subs. In the Pacific, the development was largely on the part of the subs, which is why they maintained/improved their advantages and won a resounding victory. This progress is one of the real attractions of the era, as your situation changes as your/the enemy's technologies change. Reminds me of the great Red Baron where you sweated when the opposition got a new toy (twin MGs, biplanes, better performing engines/airframes) that put them at an advantage, then made hay when your own tech had leap-frogged theirs. This simply doesn't happen in 'modern' times in that the advantages remain pretty much with the Western Powers throughout.

For these reasons I don't have any real interest in post-WWII subsims. I think many of the people who have played all the SH series would be of a similar mind (that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken).

I'm really sick of those "fire and forget" stereotypes. I could say that you just point and click in WWII sims, especially with those damn magnetic torpedoes.

Indeed you could. A few points:

1. I prefaced my comments with the rider that they were "The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me". I ended my comments with "(that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken)".

2. I'd find it interesting to hear how you would say a WWII sim using totally manual fore control is as much a 'point and click' as a modern one. Note I've said "I'd find it interesting" and mean exactly that - while it's not apparent to me that this is the case, perhaps you could give some reasons and comparisons to show why you believe that to be so.

3. Not sure how a magnetic torp makes WWII sim comparable with modern ones. After all, you can't wire guide a WWII torp, nor do they have programmable active search functions. Again, perhaps I have missed some significant aspects of the modern sim.

4. Modern subs don't need to surface, unless we're talking modern diesel-electric. In either case, they have powerful active and passive systems for locating and firing upon targets. The periscope is comparitively redundant.

5. I'm always happy to hear differing views. Unfortunately you've not shared yours, and I for one would like to hear more.

6. This is NOT a flame or criticism. I hope you won't see it as such. I am simply asking to hear about those aspects of a modern sim that make it as potentially interesting in its challenges as a WWII one.

Cheers

[Hottentot]

Hi Steeltrap

Even though I'm not JordanC, I'd like to point out some aspects of modern sub sims that you might have missed. Just like you, I'm just telling my opinion and this is in no way meant to be flame or anything like that.

The biggest misconception that you (and some other people as well) seem to have is, that modern subs are just fire-and-forget platforms. While it is true that they have powerful sensors that can detect targets from miles away and while it is true that modern torpedoes have active searching system, the firing solution is still made by the player.
The ocean is vast and targets are usually small, often other submarines. Most torpedoes in Dangerous Waters (the only modern sub sim that I have played) have range of about 10 nautical miles. The target might be much further away. Then again, he can be much closer too and your torpedo may overshoot. You could of course set the torpedo to search for the target at once, but then your torpedo will zig-zag, therefore slowing down a bit and giving your opponent more time to evade. Or even better, it could lock on a civilian oil tanker and blow it up instead of the intended target. Usually there is much more traffic in the mission than just player's sub and his target.
Things get bit easier when hunting surface targets (a carrier, for example), because they make more noise. The downside is, that they are usually heavily protected. Therefore your could launch a torpedo, but if you don't know exactly where the carrier is, your torpedo can once again lock on a wrong target. Usually you don't get a second chance either: when you launch a torpedo, everyone with a half brain can see the bearing where it's coming from. You don't usually get many new friends that way, but lots of attention is assured.

I think the "fire-and-forget" stereotype is born when people try to put a modern submarine to do WWII submarine's job. If you have active searching torpedoes and anti ship missiles, of course slaughtering merchants is easier than with steam powered torpedoes of early Silent Hunter 3. But in SH3 you still have to avoid sinking neutral merchants in the convoy. The same is true with modern subs. You can't just fire and forget.
Also, in the modern sub, launching torpedoes is more of a precision work. Imagine that you find a convoy totally consisting of enemy ships. In Silent Hunter you would freely choose and try to sink the biggest targets, in Dangerous waters your mission might be to sink that simple coastal merchant in the middle of the convoy without harming any others.
I'm not trying to oversimplify WWII sims by any means. I'm just trying to point out, that you can't just shoot blindly neither in Silent Hunter nor in Dangerous Waters.

Sometimes I have difficulties understanding the comparison of modern and WWII era sims (not pointing anyone with fingers here, just a general statement.)
I play both, I enjoy both and in both I find different challenges. In Silent Hunter there is a thrill of hunting: from a weak sound contact to finally seeing your unaware target trough the periscope, plotting his course and speed, intercepting and finally sinking him.
In Dangerous Waters it's the thrill of hide-and-seek game. My towed array picks up a faint contact that I can't identify. Could it be the sub I've been looking for, or is it yet another fishing boat? If it is a sub, has he heard me yet, or can I go closer? How much information I need to make a good firing solution? How long can I plot it without fear that he is currently trying to do the same?
Or, in a different scenario, I pick up sound contact of enemy task force loud and clear. Which of those contacts if the ship I'm supposed to sink? What kind of escorts do they have? Are they close enough for me to launch a salvo? What about their aircover or possible submarine escorts?

Finally I'd suggest that you would try Dangerous Waters out, if you you haven't already and get a chance to do so. The full version gives much wider picture of the sim, though the demo is also pretty good if I remember correctly. There should also be a multiplayer demo, so if you'd like to try it out, I'd be happy to sink some tonnage with you and so would surely be many people over at Subsim's Dangerous Waters forum. I also hope that, if they ever read this thread, they will give a bit better explanation instead of this poorly written rambling of mine.

Just my humble opinions.

[denis_469]

Why do you need modern submarine sim? All need data is closed. All modern sub sim is american saw position. All real information about technical data as US as USSR unknow in full size. Data about navy weaps after 1945 is really. But technical systems sub and undersea vessels unknow in full size.
So, if it would be moder sim reales was unrealistic only.
I think, that SH V can be about jap or british or italian subs, so about russian subs addon is in work.

[kjuice]

I think the next one out if there is one will be the destroyer command. Perhaps titled "Loud Hunter I"

[1mPHUNit0]

dc dc dc dc dc dc
dc dc dc dc dc dc
dc dc
dc dc
dc dc
dc dc
dc dc dc dc dc dc
dc dc dc dc dc dc

But D bho!? lost....hehehehehe

[Patboot]

"SHV- Unrestricted Warfare"

Combined together all the features of ShIII and IV, plus the addition of dynamic campains as Dutch, British, Japanese, Italian, French, with accurately modeled submarines to match.

Campaigns should be FULLY dynamic and strategic i.e. when you sink a ship, it should take XXX number of days to have a new one rebuilt. I guess that would take a honka-better ai, but.....

Better I just shut up....nap time soon.

[Agrippa]

In all seriousness, I think before Silent Hunter 5 we should get an add-on pack for SIlent Hunter 4. The add-on should contain a Japanese campaign, and add the S-Class subs the the US roster of playable subs. I was disappointed to find they wouldn't be in SH4. I love those little guys!

I agree with Patboot that the fifth installation should add campaigns by subs of other nations, particularly the British (in the Med and Indian ocean) and Italians, but also the French, Dutch, and the Russians (Perhaps not an exciting campaign, but I want their subs!!!). I'd also like a "fantasy" campaign mode where you can choose the country campaign you wish to play, but would allow all subs from all countries and eras for you to command.

[TacFire]

SH-V Pro...U-boots again I hope.When I say pro I mean like that tank sim SB pro.
The markets there...MMO would be great! If they would just approach this like Falcon 3.0 I would be a very happy guy and I would pay what ever the cost.:yep:

[tonibamestre]

OK,I really dont know how many of you would like a SH based on the cold war,it seems that the WW2 scenario calls much more attention.
So,I would like that ALL would make a call to people and developers from Ubi,to make possible the adition of interesting expansions for SH4,just the way it happens with IL2,that means,more playable and controlable ships,more sceneries,more details.......

Lets make it possible with your help.

Thanks to all.

[Steeltrap]

Hottentot

Thanks very much for your reply. It was exactly what I was after, as it was clear to me there must be factors I was overlooking given people on here do enjoy the modern sims.

I actually had Red Storm Rising on my Amiga 2000 (boy, that's going back a bit!!) and I did enjoy it, and I do remember exactly the sorts of challenges you're describing.

I guess the real point to me is that the advent of vastly superior technologies compared with WWII forever changed the way subs worked. Nothing wrong with that, and you have presented very well the challenges faced in that genre. My main point is that several major changes diminish the enjoyment of things for me, and as a recap they are:
- lack of relying on crew alertness in something as basic as spotting a ship or aircraft. Sensors (and USA's subs with air-search radar were an early example) mean you will 'spot' potential threats to you usually well before they are in fact an actual threat.
- no need to travel on surface, which makes a vast difference.
- absence of any real-life scenario to be simulated i.e. it's all 'what if', not 'this is an approximation of what that was like for thise who lived it'.

I simplified things by saying they're 'point and shoot' in a modern sim, although I did qualify that by saying this was the case in comparison with coping with weather and visibility etc on a WWII sub.

Anyway, thanks for your post. Appreciate you taking the time to spell out those things you enjoy. I guess they are really the same challenges as faced in WWII, it's just that the technology and strategic situations make them different in their presentation. The root causes, as it were, remain the same.

Cheers

[Rosencrantz]

Just wondering...

There is things in SHIII which could be done better...
There will be things in SHIV which could be done better...
So...
Why to change to a modern sub...?


-RC-

[_Seth_]

@ Rosencrantz: Personally think submarine simulations should cover all eras of history. It has just been released a WWI sub-sim (called 1914..something..dont remember), and then we have SHIII (WWII Atlantic), and SHIV (Pacific). I also think that the world is running dry on submarine-wars to make games out of (or vice versa). Of course SHIII / SHIV could and can be done better, but we dont want the modders to be unemployed,do we.....:up:

[Sailor Steve]

The question isn't whether there should be a new modern sub sim. The question is, should it carry the name Silent Hunter?

[peterloo]

I think that SH5 will be about early stages of Cold War

Since SH series has already covered U-boat & American subs, it would not be that attractive if SH5 is about these subs

Also, the developer may try to let people have a taste of the newer weapons (radars! homing fishes! ... & even nuclear sub)

Although Dangerous Waters covered modern subs (esp. Seawolf class), they are too modern (the story is set after 1980, I suppose)

That would be fun for you to drive a Soviet Hotel Class sub / Romeo Sub and do all kind of recons in enemy harbours

Anyway, time TELLS and SPEAKS

[Dietrich]

I think that you need to look a bit further than what we already have or just repeating it in a different era. As far as submarines/u-boats are concerned, the best and most interesting theatre is German U-Boats in the Atlantic. So, what do you need to do to have the "next generation" of simulators.

I believe there are two aspects.

Reactionary campaign

Yes, the dynamic campaign is great, but let's take it a step further and make it reactionary. That is, through lectures, leading by example, or just contributing to tonnage, you can alter the turn of events in the war. Not by much (I mean, one U-Boat can't compete with the entire Ostfront), but still, success would cause your flotilla to excel above the others. Also, if you were operating in a particular area, then that area would attract more attention with time. And, if there were "special mission", you would be involved in dropping off agents, setting other weather stations, laying mines, and so on, which in turn would earn you additional status and the allies would react to your successes.

Grand-scale Multiplayer

From what others have written, player vs player is essential. However, let's expand the options a bit.


U-Boats (a given, but let's make it possible to put multiple players in a single boat)
Destroyers and other escorts (a given, and like the U-Boats, multi-positions)
Britisch coastal command (put in flyable Sunderlands, Wellingtons, etc. make it so you could take any position in these aircraft too - pilot, bomber, gunner)I would stop there, to make the project feasible and to stay with "Silent Hunter". But, one day, there will be "Battle of the Atlantik" with surface fleets and so on too. That would not be "SH" though.

[Smaragdadler]

Dangerous Waters is not just a modern subsim. It is a public avaliable modern ASW sim. It has PLAYABLE surface and air platforms (apart from the subs) with even multi-station multiplayer mode. Think about what this means.

If Silent Hunter wants to go "modern" it has a steep step to take. There is a reason DW has such "poor" grafics in comparision to SH. Because DW has MUCH more "under the surface". (sonar model, sonobuoys, layers, inertia, link-data etc. pp.)

In a way SH as software is not so "evolved" as DW, its just the subsim-stuff from the 90s but very beautiful "painted in 21th century style." In DW the "structure" is modern, but there was no time left for nice painting.

Or to say it from the other side: I think it would be more easy to make a "Dangerous Waters 2: Kriegsmarine" with the look of SH3 thant to make a "Silent Hunter V: Cold War" with the sophistication of DW.

Just my two or three euro-cents.

[flyingdane]

It's Not time for cold war stuff yet, wait for SH 6-7 for that.......OK. :yep:

[Zinmar]

My vote for the next thing needed is surface ships. Ya'll can go on about cold war subs and stuff but I miss destroyer command. They saw from SH2 that it is certainly an idea that will sell!! So give us access to the surface ships and than start worrying about the next subsim to come out.

[goldorak]

The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me are:

They are entirely hypothetical - there have not been any significant conflicts at sea on the scale of WWII Atlantic/Pacific. Hard to be immersed in something that's never happened - you don't get that "gee, I'm getting a feeling for what this was like" when it's never been!

They are 'sterile'. It's all high-powered sensors and wire-guided or self-guided. Get yourself in the right spot and the system can deliver a firing solution and then execute it. No more peering through the mist from the bridge of a diesel sub as you hunt convoys etc. Also no deck guns/flak.


Give me a break. :rotfl:
Have you even tried playing at Dangerous Waters with realism at 100% ?
I don't think so.
Modern day warfare is everything except sterile, try intercepting an enemy sub at 20 nm going at 5 knots by doing manual tma, fire wire guided torpedos or missiles and htiting the enemy sub who in the meantime has entered into evasive patterns, or attacking a carrier group protected by and asw screen.
Its all except sterile. :|\\


The development of technologies through WWII was dramatic. ASW weapons and tactics improved massively in the Atlantic while subs didn't, resulting in a crushing defeat of the subs. In the Pacific, the development was largely on the part of the subs, which is why they maintained/improved their advantages and won a resounding victory. This progress is one of the real attractions of the era, as your situation changes as your/the enemy's technologies change. Reminds me of the great Red Baron where you sweated when the opposition got a new toy (twin MGs, biplanes, better performing engines/airframes) that put them at an advantage, then made hay when your own tech had leap-frogged theirs. This simply doesn't happen in 'modern' times in that the advantages remain pretty much with the Western Powers throughout.

For these reasons I don't have any real interest in post-WWII subsims. I think many of the people who have played all the SH series would be of a similar mind (that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken).

You're deeply mistaken.
Avanced technology doesn't mean its easier to sink vessels.
Dangerous Waters may not have flashy graphics, but when you have the possibility of multiplayer-multistation on different units, nuclear submarines, diesel submarines, surface frigate, asw helicoptors or p-3 in an integrated 3d battlespace you're in for a far more exciting experience than chasing AI convoys.
And I have played Silent Hunter and Silent Hunter 2.

[Boris]

I don't think Silent Hunter should ever depart from WW2. Different theatres is fine, but different wars is too much.
Silent Hunter is the only sub series dedicated to WW2. Let another dev team handle other wars I say. When SHV comes out, if it comes out, It's going to be like 2010 or 11. People will always want an up to date WW2 subsim, and the Silent Hunter guys are the ones to provide it.

[geetrue]

Silent Hunter is about WW II and WW II was Glen Ford, John Wayne, Clark Gable, black and white news reels and ice cold Coke Cola's ...

Nuclear subs are fun, but a lot of work, they travel faster, they have to do things faster ... In other words you have to be smarter.

Looking forward to Silent Hunter IV just like I was SH II and SH III and I played the original Silent Hunter till I had to buy another one for only $10 just to keep the scratches off.

Gentlemen ... some real fun is on the way.

I just want to sink some japs ... :rock:

[Smaragdadler]

I think they should make some "grand" SH, meaning timeframe WWII all theaters (+ WWI) and concentrate on ai, environment modeling (sea, sonar, radar) multiplayer (multi station) and a powerfull editor with scripting abilities and heavy support for modders for sensor and platform modifications and the ability to add new playables. (so that one could make a cold war mod or even pre 20th century submersibles and code some dynamic campaigns). dream,dream, dream, joy, joy, joy ... :D

Silent flashpoint - you get the idea.

[TwistedFemur]

I think SHV should be an accurate simulation of the American Civil War Iron Clads.:lol:



That would be cool. but what about a WWI sim?

[U-Dog]

Personally i'd like British and Italian subs in the Med or added to eh SH3 engine somehow. Though a remake of the U-boat war with Wolfpacks and an option for technologies to be developed at different times might not be bad. WW1, cool. Um a cold war campaign with leading up to the first nuclear subs might be neat but not a big seller I think. Them this is a niche market anyway. Basically, I'll settle for what i can get. Even if the team takes some time off but comes back with an improved U-boat war that would be cool. I'm mostly a WW2 kinda guy and don't know that the work on the SH series really would be of any help in later cold war stuff. Completely different game in many ways.

[Iron Budokan]

Personally, I'm not interested in playing a modern subsim in the Silent Hunter series. Anyway, hasn't Sonalysts kind of taken over the modern naval sim market? Dunno.

Oh, and I for one don't think it's too early to start talking about Silent Hunter XV. I hear the campaign in that one isn't going to be dynamic. What are the dev's thinking? And if the AE-365/S coupling to the protein-sheathed wetware implant in your brain's sulci doesn't carry the integrated asymptotic campaign module we've all come to love, then why would we buy this piece of garbage in the first place? Silent Hunter XV has the opportunity to set a new bar in sub sims. I hope they at least get the quantum DNA identifier correct so when I choose Topp as my skipper I will have to make the same decisions he would have made based on his psychological biometrics. Sheesh.

[AS]

Since modern warfare means staring at waterfall displays and overloaded high-tech-screens, I think people who love that should be happy with 688i or its sequel which looks almost the same. Approved and advanced computers with better graphics wouldn´t really affect the gameplay of a nuclear sub, I think. So let´s stay in the Atlantic and the Pacific in WW2.:yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

Personally, I'm not interested in playing a modern subsim in the Silent Hunter series. Anyway, hasn't Sonalysts kind of taken over the modern naval sim market? Dunno.

Oh, and I for one don't think it's too early to start talking about Silent Hunter XV. I hear the campaign in that one isn't going to be dynamic. What are the dev's thinking? And if the AE-365/S coupling to the protein-sheathed wetware implant in your brain's sulci doesn't carry the integrated asymptotic campaign module we've all come to love, then why would we buy this piece of garbage in the first place? Silent Hunter XV has the opportunity to set a new bar in sub sims. I hope they at least get the quantum DNA identifier correct so when I choose Topp as my skipper I will have to make the same decisions he would have made based on his psychological biometrics. Sheesh.

I can see it now:

Iron Budokan: Nuts! Lousy depth-keeping. Those torpedoes are running low again. Back to PD! Let's get one more shot off before that Fletcher gets too close.

CPU: No Iron. You are required to operate according to the Kretchmer protocol: One ship, one torpedo. You must dive.

Iron: Never! One must risk in order to gain. Seerohrtieffe!

CPU: I can't let you do that, Iron; the risk is unacceptable. Computer is shutting down now. Sorry, Iron.

[Iron Budokan]

Personally, I'm not interested in playing a modern subsim in the Silent Hunter series. Anyway, hasn't Sonalysts kind of taken over the modern naval sim market? Dunno.

Oh, and I for one don't think it's too early to start talking about Silent Hunter XV. I hear the campaign in that one isn't going to be dynamic. What are the dev's thinking? And if the AE-365/S coupling to the protein-sheathed wetware implant in your brain's sulci doesn't carry the integrated asymptotic campaign module we've all come to love, then why would we buy this piece of garbage in the first place? Silent Hunter XV has the opportunity to set a new bar in sub sims. I hope they at least get the quantum DNA identifier correct so when I choose Topp as my skipper I will have to make the same decisions he would have made based on his psychological biometrics. Sheesh.
I can see it now:

Iron Budokan: Nuts! Lousy depth-keeping. Those torpedoes are running low again. Back to PD! Let's get one more shot off before that Fletcher gets too close.

CPU: No Iron. You are required to operate according to the Kretchmer protocol: One ship, one torpedo. You must dive.

Iron: Never! One must risk in order to gain. Seerohrtieffe!

CPU: I can't let you do that, Iron; the risk is unacceptable. Computer is shutting down now. Sorry, Iron.

Me: CPU, open the pod bay doors.

CPU: I'm sorry, Iron, I can't do that right now.

Me: CPU, I said open the pod bay doors! Okay, that's it. I'm gonna blow the explosive bolts....

:rotfl:

[TDK1044]

I think there's plenty of room for both modern day sub sims and WWII sub sims. For me, the Silent Hunter series should always be set in the 1939 to 1945 time frame and Silent Hunter V should return us to the cold, dark water of the Atlantic.

http://www.tothegame.com/res/game/4072/logo.jpg

[Hz]

I have no doubt:

No SHV, no DWII, all we need is Destroyer Command II, and a patch (like PM for SH2-DC) whith host´s control of all dificult settings of all players. Something like multiplayer options in Dangerous Waters (superb concept).

We should have one of the best multiplayer naval game ever seen, with human enemies.

SH3 is a good game, a great game, but it is very poor for multiplayer purposes. Only cooperative missions are possible, and cheating is very very easy (and many other things). I think that community pressure asking a dinamic campaing during game development took out of focus multiplayer aspects of this game. And SH3 multiplayer is worse than SH2 was.

That´s why I would be very happy if someone could develope Destroyer Command II.

(sorry for my english).

[Takeda Shingen]

And SH3 multiplayer is worse than SH2 was.

And everything else in SH3 is vastly superior to that which was in SH2. I really think that the last thing we need is to point at the broken SH2 and say, "that's what we want more of."

For the record, SH2/DC multiplay was swimming with problems. I know: It was my job to help correct the WPL rules to compensate for those shortcomings. I was also there for Messerwesser, as well as the eventual community-based programming modifications that made multiplay tolerable.

[Chief of the Boat]

'Zinmar' has a damned good idea; 'Surface Ships'.

I'm not one to lean on, nor 'pull' experience, but I *have* steamed more than a few NM, and I'll tell you, in ASW [anti-submarine-warefare], it can be 'exciting'. Likewise I know..KNOW.. sub boat sailors, who have told me how 'exciting' it is to get underway, clear The Shelf, submerge..... and surface many days later, seeing only their vast intricate displays. Granted, that is 'real life'. Yet, as elsewhere stated, study of those Sensors... Non-Real... ... ... ... .... Zzzzzzzz

But, I've never had the privilege of playing Destroyer Command. Anybody know how *real* it was.... and where I can get a copy ???

COB

[GSpector]

Personnally, since UBI is coming out with Knights of the Sky, an old MicroProse title, I see nothing wrong with them doing SILENT SERVICE as a Modern Day Sub Sim.

If given the choice of Crews for either Modern Day or WWII, I would prefer U.S. Crews next.

Fighting with the Germans is interesting and I really to like SHIII a lot (especially with GWX) but I can't help but twinge when I put a fish in the water towards a U.S. Ship.

[Iron Budokan]

Man, I am so looking forward to Knights of the Sky. I love love love WWI flight sims, much more than WWII flight sims. And I remember the original KOTS, my first flight sim ever. What fun.

[corvette k225]

My thinking and hope there will be a SH V , but the ? will be how good the sales will be
for SH IV, that would be world wide sales. If SHIV does better than SH III alot better I could add, then we will see a SHV with the yanks running the show!

For me being a yank that Iam I would hope SH V will be a german U-boat sim, because the germans for one thing had more Torpedoes types to use, and some or most
had graeter warhead in the Torpedoes. Also most of the german u-boat could go down at a greater depth. Of course some of the US subs had A/C in them. But for
playing a subim I just enjoy playing on the german side of the War!:D :D maybe sometime
late spring 2008 or fall of that same year! lets just cross are fingers.

[Sailor Steve]

If there is an SH5, it will probably wait until the full development of Vista and DX10, which will probably mean another five years at least. Except for cleaning up SH3 and bringing it up to SH4 standards, what would be the point otherwise?

[GT182]

A Cold War sim would be only "watch and find, run and hide". Nothing to shoot at with any kind of realism involved. That alone would make it so dull you'd can it after a weeks play.

Ubi needs to make a great tank sim of WWII, where you can play all sides of the war. And do it with the graphics and physics of MOH Pacific Assault.

[GSpector]

Gee GT182, the last Tank Sim I had and enjoyed was MicroProse's M1 Tank Platoon:hmm:

It's been a while. I guess it's about time I tried another one. Are there any that have a better Career model then SH3? So far, B17II had the best for dealing with crewmen.

[corvette k225]

I hope that vista will work good with SHIII, with all the mods etc. It is the best subsim out there, I just hope my coumpter that have now works tell we see a germam subsim that will work on vista and DX 10. So i will not or plan on getting
a new coumpter tell late 2008 if thay have a subsim "german" that will work ok
on viast and DX 10 :D

[(SH3)JOHN LAMARRE]

ShV should be u can pick axis or allied campain or others