Readers' Comments Archive
Sept '97 - Oct '96
September 25, 1997
Hi all,
I have been playing Command AOD for the past week and have found that tactics I have used and refined in other WW2 subsims have worked well again and so I thought I might share them in case anyone would find them useful.
For some well-devised strategies, see Fionn's Tactical Page
September 22, 1997
I just purchaced 688(I)and what can I say its brilliant!! I'm finding it hard to drag myself away from it.
JAYBE...
September 22, 1997
Hi, Neal,
Finally I bought 688I, and I found it very good from a strategic point of view, you really have "the control" of your ship and it's really fun to prepare an attack, with all the functions in the manual modes.... But I found that the Russian was underevaluated, it's too easy just to splash down a superb Akula. With Fast Attack, bad guys are really bad: just one or two errors and you are invaded by hostile ping... and you're really in trouble!
passe une bonne journee, mon ami
Nico.
How's that? A superb Akula! My grandma eats Akulas for breakfast with her bagels!
September 11, 1997
I've just been reading your revew on 688i and I agree with you on most points (yeah, I just got the game and still trying to get through its finer points). However, there's one thing I would like see in a subsim is the ability to get off quick commands, like what is possible in the 1988-vintage Red Storm Rising. It's quite a frustration having to change bearing and speed, launch MOSS and noisemakers, read active searches while tracking weapons both friendly and hostile while switching rapidly between screens...especially when you're involved in a quick and dirty knifefight in shallow waters with several diesel-electric boats. RSR allows you to do all that on one screen with just a quick series of keyboard commands, which means you don't actually need to get off your tactical screen while trying to launch that critical noisemaker.
Cheers,
C.
I can see where the lack of keyboard control could pose a problem, especially for guys like me, who have slow computers--it takes ten seconds for a fresh screen to appear! Oh well, I guess it would take a live captain that long to go from station to station.
September 8, 1997
I'll add another round of congrats to your efforts, Neal. I've been looking for such a page for months.
Stuck with hardware limitations I've slowly progressed to more up-to-date sub sims. 688 Attack now to Seawolf (I did download a Silent Hunter demo). Yes, the graphics for SSN-21 are a bit cheesy, especially so when compared to Silent Hunter. While a lot of fun I thought the enemy AI too predictable once you figured out why it was you went swimming a few times.
Two things: One, can any of these sims be played over the net. I like the modem option of 688 Attack and SSN 21 but living in a really small community I have no-one to play against unless I fork out for long distance charges. Secondly, will there ever be a sim where their is a multi-dimensial campaign going on; where you can deploy various assets, be it subs or skimmers, then take command of one of the vessels you deployed.
I've bookmarked this spot. Keep up the great work. Cheers,
Ian Davis
As for net play, the only sim I know of that has this feature is the new 688(I) HUNTER/KILLER from Jane's. It's an excellent sim, very realistic, not so visual. See my review for more data. I've played it online with up to four players, pretty intense. As for the "total theater" approach, not yet but I hear several companies have this in mind.
September 6, 1997
First of all, EXCELLENT SITE! I've been looking for a list (plus reviews) of all the sub sims out there in one location but I've never seen one...until now. I found your site address in the message you posted to the Sierra On-Line "Not-So-Silent Running" message board.
Neal Swett
August 20, 1997
The best thing about your page is that I am more comfortable now knowing there are other people like me out there with the same "obsession". In spite of the fact that it would be pretty hard for us to be farther apart and still be on the same continent, we share similar interests. Your 688i review has my mouth watering to upgrade my system so I can get started. Up to now, Fast Attack is as far as I have progressed.
Thanks and keep up the great work !
John Channing
I can tell you'll be a formidable opponent for on-line play. You be sure and touch base with me when you're ready to play.
August 9, 1997
I have a question on the new version of Aces of the Deep; is it still possible to make the map less accurate. In Aces of the Deep if you put the level of combat and sailing up, the map is not a good tool. If you dive, all you have is one square box which is where the loudest contact is. Sometimes you can plot ship with the periscope up in the map but if your under periscope depth that map won't help much.
But I was just wondering if you had that option in the Command Aces of the Deep?
Josh Deans
Yes, exactly the same. Raise the combat level to expert and you can't "see" the surface ships once you are below periscope depth, just as in real life. You do have sound bearings represented on the map.
August 6, 1997
Hey Neal,
Thanks for the reply. Your pages are awesome, I must say that your review on it largely affected my decision. I just got my first computer in years, and I remember playing Silent Service (1) on the old Atari ST- It was a blast, and the sea didn't even rock the boat!
My biggest worries were all those posts in the tech support section, but after reading all of them I think I can handle all that no prob.
Thanks again!-Ian
July 4, 1997
Hi,
I just ran across your subsim page. Good job! Your review of the old SSII was interesting; that was the first sub sim I ever bought, and it's still on my system.
Do you know where I could get a copy of the AOD expansion disk? Sierra informs me that they no longer produce it, it's NLA through their direct sales number, and the couple of used game dealers I've contacted couldn't help.
Thanks,
Graham
I could only suggest two things in this case: go ahead and buy the Command version of Aces of the Deep, which has the expansion disk included on the program disk; or try to find someone with the expansion disk who would be willing to sell it. If anyone reads this message and would like to strike a deal, touch base with me.
May 26, 1997
Excellent review page!!
I cut my teeth on Silent Service II and am truly an addict of Aces of the Deep. Being an absolute sub nut, I am sometimes surprised at the extent of sub sims in the first place.....it seems so wonderfully obscure at times. Being a big fan of U-boats, I readily agree with your views on Wolfpack. I will say this about Wolfpack, it really was the first big graphics oriented sub sim....though certainly, it shows its age. One particularly hilarious oversight is that you can shoot 20 some odd torpedoes from the front tubes of a type IX boat with very little reload time and a crew that can pass eels through the entire length of the boat!!! There are parts of the program that I think are of particular note. I like the fact that you can jump from boat to boat and even jump to the escort's side if you prefer(It certainly gives you a different perspective) and the fact that they did try to show the German's side, a la Das Boot...I guess I'm hard to please...I'd love a sim with realistic weather patterns based on historical recordings of the patterns, realistic crew morale, random event generators that made the sim thought provoking, etc.....It's like the realism is at 88%..if we could just get that final 12%!
Jay Baker
I couldn't agree more (unless you bribed me). I think as program development advances, we may some day see sims so realistic that the enemy sailors from the freighter you torpedoed will take shots at you with a carbine from their lifeboat, or you will be able to eye the Oriental beauties sunning on the beach as you move in close ashore....
someday.
June 24, 1997
Neal,
First of all let me say thank you for the best Subsim Review site that I have visited so far. Your reviews, at least for the few games I have played, are about as accurate as I have read. I currently own Fast Attack, Silent Hunter, and Command: Aces of the Deep, and am eagerly awaiting the release of Jane's 688(i) Hunter/Killer.
So far my favorite is Silent Hunter. My version includes both Patrol Discs, and I've utilized many of the features and scenarios that come with them as well as with the original game. This game has kept me more entertained than my other two sims combined. Graphics play a big role in how I judge a game, so perhaps you can understand why it is that Silent Hunter is the only sim that remains on my hard disc.
My purpose for writing you today, however, was not to provide you with a review of Silent Hunter, but to let you know that I recently tried the shareware version of Sealance, a game whose existance I was unaware of until I visited your site. I'm interested in hearing whether or not you were able to ... play it. Guess I'll find out soon enough.
Keep up the great work on your site!
Kevin
Well, I've been playing it a little here and there, but haven't finished evaluating it yet. After July 15, I'll have much more time to conduct Sim warfare--I only have one class for that six week semester. I've had Flying Corps for two months and haven't had time to load it onto my hard drive; and next to SubSims, WWI Aces Sims are my favorite!
So, to answer your question, I hope to post a review on SeaLance: The Bermuda Triangle in four weeks or less.
And many thanks for your kind words!
June 24, 1997
My name is Milos
And I love subs.
I'm looking for a free downloadable sub simulation, can you help me?
Yes! Check out the aforementioned SeaLance sim. It's not free, but you can download it and try it out on a trial basis. And if you like it, and want the full blown version, (plus would like to assist the developer in creating newer sims), it doesn't cost much, about $12! Try it out.
SeaLance: The Bermuda Triangle
June 27, 1997
Great Sub Site!
My very first computer game was Sub Battle Simulator from Epyx which came out in 1987. It was short on graphics but a great strategy game. You could play as an American sub in the Pacific or a German sub in the Atlantic. The only really low point on realism was that when I ran out of torpedos, I could surface right next to a ship (including aircraft carriers!) at night and sink it with my AA gun.
I currently have Aces of the Deep on CD, this version has the improved graphics & commands, plus a library of videotape interviews with the actual U-Boat commanders - very interesting!
Louie
Thanks! Aces was and still is a viable sim. It was the cream of the crop for several years in my book, and I still enjoy its atmosphere and realism. Sometimes I like to switch the crews' voices to German. I can't understand a word they're saying, but it adds a neat quality to the sim. And that guy who announces a torpedo has been loaded, his voice cracks my wife up.
June 28,1997
Greetings,
Just came across your webpage on sub games. Pretty smooth. Wanted to let you know if you already don't 688i has some serious but known flaws. It would appear that it crashes without warning and without a message. There are some message threads going on now on the Janes site about this. It's always a pain in the ass when these guys release something on Friday :).
The game looks pretty nice though it's a let down without the 3dfx added graphics. It's a quite a bit more complex than Fast Attack but seems to have some of the same flavor to it. I wasn't very impressed with the game layout. If you havn't bought it yet I'd wait for the patch b/c it can be somewhat annoying when the game crashes during a battle before you've had time to save.
Dave a/k/a GatorDave
Thanks for the warnings, Dave. I will probably buy the sim next week, and it'll take at least a month to evaluate it properly. Why don't I wait for the patch? Well, if the program crashes and falters a lot, I get to add that to the review. And just as you cautioned me, I would like to caution others as well, especially the non-diehard SubSim players. Why should they waste money on a program that isn't ready?
I had subscribed to a 688(i) e-mail service that posted messages from and to all subscribers. Boy, from the amount of traffic and the gung-ho! fervor about the sim, I suspected the service was a handily crafted advertising ploy. Hey, I've been running a message heralding the 688(i) sim for months, and I want to see it succeed as much as anyone. But if the program doesn't measure up, then it's time to cut it down.
August 6, 1997
After owning a PC for a few months I finally found the time and money to buy a SubSim; Fast Attack. It seemed to be everything (for the first time) I had imagined in a simulation until I got tired of "clicking". From reading your page, it sound as if I should get Silent Hunter. Could you let me know if the graphic quality and complexity are comprable.
Problems with Fast Attack:
The weapons tend not to "aquire" the target selected.
The game locks up if you give it too many commands at once.
The active sonar will not allways detect the enemy.P.S. It was quite nice to find your site easily from links through Sierra. It was exactly what I was looking for.
Studyjon
Actually, some of the problems you describe would probably be part of the built-in difficulty level of the program. Torpedoes and Harpoon missiles sometimes fail to acquire because the target solution is slightly off, something a real sub skipper could encounter. If you were able to complete most missions without experiencing a program crash, then you were luckier than me. Silent Hunter and Fast Attack (when it runs okay) are very comparable in quality. The type of simulated warfare is very different, i.e., diesel subs that rely on visual targeting with unguided torpedoes, and nuclear subs that use passive sonar and homing torpedoes. Both have their own level of appeal.
July 29, 1997
Hi Neal,
It's really an excellent job you have done here, the page has everything I ever wanted to see in a Homepage, your reviews are great. Here in Brazil it's very difficult to find anyone interested in submarines, most of my friends prefer the flight sims, they can't see the elegance of stalking beneath the deadly waves. It's good to find a place where the sub maniacs can meet each other. I created a Win 95 Silent Hunter Theme, it has 702k, if anyone is interested just mail me, it will be a pleasure to send it.
Well, I'm a great fan of Silent Hunter, but it gets much better with the patrol disks, I would say it's a must have, if you're tired of only shooting down convoys it will break this routine with Life Guard Duty and Photo Recon, and other features like jettisoning debris and AA guns and two of my favorites - red lights and up to 2048X time compression. It also appears to me to be a little more difficult. I had many problems with destroyers, but I seldom escaped from them--I eliminate them, but this makes me spend torpedoes that should target convoys and greater warships. So I discovered a way to escape from them relatively easy; when thay chase me, in the moment I hear their screws really near of me I turn around and go straight at their direction at all ahead to flank, when I hear the drop of depth charges, I turn full rudder in the opposite direction of the destroyer, after the explosions I return to the original course and to all ahead 1/3, apparently they can't detect you from behind and by the time they turn around you are very distant from them.
I'm eager to recieve my Command Aces of the Deep, and 668(i) Hunter/Killer, then I'll be able to give my comments to you.
I have Fast Attack, but in the career mission #2 I just can't find a good solution to the two pesky patrol crafts, yet it appears to be a simple task at least in the tutorial missions I could do with one hand tied. I'm getting really tired of all that mouse clicks in the firing solutions, I even tried to plot the solution, if you have any advice please mail me. This is a nice simulator but Jane's seems to be much better.
About Silent Steel I have to say one thing, it would be a good game if it didn't kill you so often. I just got tired of hearing "We're bingo fuel..." and I hoped it had different happy endings but it appears to be only one.
Congratulations Captain and Good Huntin' Skipper
Gustavo Beolchi
Hoo boy, you're right about that "bingo fuel" business! Look on my Sim Links page for a Silent Steel walk-through. You'll get to see the XO and Master Chief stare down a gun-waving whacko crew member. One of your choices is "Get him, XO!" Your XO will stare malignly at you and reply, "You get him, Captain!". Then the XO sighs and orders the tiny sonar officer to rush the gunman. It's pretty funny, but now what follows.
I think you have some good moves for Silent Hunter. I'll try that my next outing.
July 28, 1997
Hey Neal!
688I is in keeping with the usual high standard of Jane's sims. With 688 h/k they seem to have done there homework and put together one of the most realistic sub sims available. I have waited since the demise of the ATARI ST for a sim to take the place of Red Storm Rising and I am glad to say 688I is worth the wait. The sonar waterfall displays and TMA stations are extremely well put together. The modeling of water conditions and convergeance zones looks very impressive and will help to make your AKULA hunting days even more stressful. The game play has a number of similarities with Fast Attack but the atmosphere of the game is just like a page out of a Tom Clancy novel. The inclusion of the all important Network play and mission designer puts the cherry on the cake and opens up more opertunities for the sims shelf life.
Those are the good points. The bad points are thankfully only minor and are probably going to be adressed in the promised upgrade & patches. The most visible one is the lack of Harpoon waypoints so that you can steer the weapon around friendlies/ neutrals or just approach the target from different directions to disguise your launch bearing. The only other things worth mentioning are the lack of knuckles ? & the inclusion of the two towed arrays with no difference between them in evidence in the manual or the sim.
Ignoring the minor probs. above I can conclude that you can do much worse than get your hands on a copy of 688 H/K, but be prepared for a steep learning curve if you are new to sub sims; however the excellent tutorials in the manual guide you through the early missions and let you get your feet wet.
Many thanks & well done on a cool website.
Ste Cain
A very impressive summary! I'm finding many if not all of your insights to be MOT. As for the lack of knuckles and repetiveness in enemy behavior patterns, we can probably count on Jane's/EA's readiness with a patch soon. And then an add-on disk. All the features and refinements that should be included in a sim to start with but available at extra cost. If you haven't tried on-line play yet, stay tuned. I'm going to reveal a great forum for multi-play soon.
July 18, 1997
I have bought Aces of the Deep, when I played it I found I could surface in the middle of a convoy and not get shot at. So I was wondering if Command Aces of the Deep has more challenge to it? Also when I manned the deck guns they wouldn't fire; so do the aa guns work in Command Aces of the Deep?
James Rosenkranz
The AA guns work, but without your direct control. There are several significant changes and additions to the Command version; Mediterranean Theater play, control over the deck gun, better enemy AI, and Type XXI boats are available. The Command version is Windows 95 only.
Neal,
Appreciate your home page, I own SSN and have had a good time with it and enjoyed it up to the point where the damn thing locked up and I couldn't advance to the next mission. Simon & Schuster tell me they know that they have a problem but no solution after 2 months of owning the program. My respect to Tom Clancy. What is your recomendation on the most realistic subsim that requires setting up stratigies and ploting a shot, I am more interested in putting thought in to a subsim than a look up, shoot down program. I'll be interested in hearing your response.
Green Board
Bob Berry ex EN2SS
As you can tell from my review, I agree. Who needs a cartoon treatment of such a serious subject.
April 7, 1997
Don't feel bad about Silent Steel, I got killed way too many times myself, left me feeling kinda blue...:(
6 years in the Submarine Force, I would not recommend this as a good simualtor. An entertaining movie mabye, but not a real sim....
Thanks for the great web page!
Tom McAndrews
TM2(SS) USS B. Franklin SSBN640 Gold
Hey, for the complete scenario guide, check my SubSim Links Page.
Jan 7, 1997
First of all congratulations for your idea and your page. For me that i'm addicted to subsims this is the heaven page. I agree with you that Silent Hunter is for the moment the best subsim with excelent graphics. It is better than Aces of the Deep (I don't have Command: Aces of the Deep to have an opinion) because of the old graphics. The others games is just a good try! (excuse my english).
Josi Manuel Batista
Dec 26, 1996
Neal,
Great site! I loved the sim reviews! (And I thought I had some humor!) Very Well done, I'm gonna put a link to your Site on my page, The Silent Hunter Homepage.
Great stuff, while my site deals with a lot of the sim, I try to emphasize the real thing and you have done a wonderful job! Thanks and keep up the great work!
Always-----------
------------------Jim Atkins
I am very appreciative of your kind words. I'm looking forward to more tips and info. Keep it up!
Nov. 30, 1996
I have to agree with your assessment of Silent Steel. I have spent hours trying to work through to the right combination of responses in order to get to disk 4. I have yet to get there. I resorted to looking for books that had some answers but I haven't found any.
I did note that on disk three, one of the ship mate mumbles something unintelligible, but no doubt, important. I'll keep at it.
Anthony Gainor
Well, thanks to you, Tony, I realized a new interest in this sim. After using your tip, I too made it to disk 4. Stonewalled yet again (how much difference can there be in "Prepare tube two", "Time to impact?", or "Give me a course and bearing on the target"??), I found Tsunami's site, complete with scenario hints and a walk-through for those of us who just want to finish the game more as a video than a sim. See my SubSim Links Page for more details.
Oct. 23, 1996I visited your website; good job. I was intrigued by your reviews of sub sims.
I've played 688 and Tom Clancy's SSN. I agree completely with your assessment of SSN. I was very disappointed with it. When I've got the time and money, I'll look into your top picks. When I do, I'll tell you what I thought.
Bruce Kackman
Oct. 13, 1996I appreciate your reviews of the SubSim software.
I am curious, though, how Silent Hunter got a 95, whereas your "best of all U-boat sims," Command Aces...only received a 92?
Thanks, in any event.
Joe Shook (formerly MT1(SS))
Command Aces is the best of all U-boat sims, Silent Hunter is better (marginally), but isn't a U-boat sim. It's an American subsim.Archive closed
SUBSIM Review - Web's First SUBMARINE SIMULATION WEBSITE!
Jan 26, 1997
Some reviews previously published as a branch of the Moto-Dude Domain; Dec. 1995-Jan. 1997.