UN Sactions against NK? Not gonna work (again)...

[SUBMAN1]

Give it 6 months and you'll have France, Russia, and China sneaking weapons sales and other trade sold after the sanctions started.

To this day, most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons sold under secrecy for the Food for Oil program during the sanctions (even as late as 2000 and 2001). Nice.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics

[Coda]

Sanctions = blowing smoke up peoples butts.

They can just get them elsewhere.

Old weapon path:

Country A - Country B - North korea

New weapon path:

Country A - Country X - North Korea


Without a blockade, it's meaningless. You need to fight fire with fire.





Saw a bumper sticker yesterday:

(Picture of nuke mushroom cloud)
Made in America
Tested in Japan
Stop the Enrichment
Or we'll test in Iran

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

To this day, most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons sold under secrecy for the Food for Oil program during the sanctions (even as late as 2000 and 2001). Nice.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics

What is your evidence to back up this claim of yours that most US troop deaths in Iraq are attributable to "French made weapons"?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

What is your evidence to back up this claim of yours that most US troop deaths in Iraq are attributable to "French made weapons"?

It only takes about two seconds on Google to find your answers:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...3000-1796r.htm

Here is an excerpt from that article. Let me know how many articles you want to read on the subject since Google is reporting tons and tons of them:

Made in France
The war in Iraq, which began March 19, 2003, provided disturbing evidence that France's treacherous dealings come at a steep cost to the United States.

On April 8 came the downing of Air Force Maj. Jim Ewald's A-10 Thunderbolt fighter over Baghdad and the discovery that it was a French-made Roland missile that brought down the American pilot and destroyed a $13 million aircraft. Ewald, one of the first U.S. pilots shot down in the war, was rescued by members of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion who saw him parachute to earth not far from the wreckage.

Army intelligence concluded that the French had sold the missile to the Iraqis within the past year, despite French denials.

A week after Ewald's A-10 was downed, an Army team searching Iraqi weapons depots at the Baghdad airport discovered caches of French-made missiles. One anti-aircraft missile, among a cache of 51 Roland-2s from a French-German manufacturing partnership, bore a label indicating that the batch was produced just months earlier.

In May, Army intelligence found a stack of blank French passports in an Iraqi ministry, confirming what U.S. intelligence already had determined: The French had helped Iraqi war criminals escape from coalition forces -- and therefore justice.
Then, there were French-made trucks and radios and the deadly grenade launchers, known as RPGs, with French-made night sights. Saddam loyalists used them to kill American soldiers long after the toppling of the dictator's regime.

The intelligence team sent to find Iraqi weapons also discovered documents outlining covert Iraqi weapons procurement leading up to the war. The CIA, however, refused to make public the documents on assistance provided by France or by other so-called allies of the United States.

The clandestine arms-procurement network, disclosed late last year by the Los Angeles Times, put a Syrian trading company in a pivotal role. Documents showed the company, SES International Corp., was the conduit for millions of dollars' worth of weapons purchased internationally, including from France. Al Bashair Trading Co. in Baghdad was the major front used by Saddam to buy arms abroad.

A Defense Department-sponsored report produced in February identified France as one of the top three suppliers of Iraq's conventional arms, after Russia and China. The report revealed that France supplied 12 types of armaments and a total of 115,005 pieces.

A major reason Iraqi militants posed a threat to U.S. forces for so many months was that they had access to weapons that Saddam stockpiled in violation of U.N. resolutions.

[ASWnut101]

And the US did nothing about it....."Aiding and abedding the enemy" is something pointed out in the U.S.'s Terrorist crackdown bill. I see no difference in what the french did to the Iraqis with what Iran did to Hezbollah. is it just me, or do i smell the stinch of a terrorist?:hmm:

[Coda]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

is it just me, or do i smell the stinch of a terrorist?:hmm:

I smell freedom fries.

[ASWnut101]

and they are smelling really good right now.......

[TteFAboB]

Won't work.

Why don't we read the Versailles treaty again? Hitler could've easily been toppled for disobeying article after article if instead of appeasement and optimism he was faced by an ultimatum.

Now it's just hopeless. There is no alliance. A naval blockade can only take place if the Chinese government agrees with it and they don't.

Let North Koreans continue to starve to death by the millions. Eventually there will be nobody left for Kim to rule.

[ASWnut101]

except his 40 hookers and prostitutes

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Won't work.

Why don't we read the Versailles treaty again? Hitler could've easily been toppled for disobeying article after article if instead of appeasement and optimism he was faced by an ultimatum.

Now it's just hopeless. There is no alliance. A naval blockade can only take place if the Chinese government agrees with it and they don't.

Let North Koreans continue to starve to death by the millions. Eventually there will be nobody left for Kim to rule.

N Korea suffers greatly from Malnorishment. So much so, that it has stunted the growth of the population. A N Korean male that is over 5 feet tall is considered a tall man in their country.

-S

PS. Even Wikipedia reports that they are less than 5' 4":

In contrast, average male height in impoverished Vietnam and North Korea[2] remains comparatively small at 5 ft 4 in (1.63 m) and 5 ft 5 in (1.65 m) respectively. Currently, young North Korean males are actually significantly shorter.

[Hylander_1314]

Sounds like N. Korea needs Krelm Toothpaste.

[Nightmare]

There was a 9-page article posted up on MSNBC this morning going over the history of the current situation. Here’s some tid bits that I found disturbing:

Under that 1994 pact, Clinton obtained a commitment to freeze plutonium reprocessing in exchange for aid and a civilian nuclear plant. When American experts were finally allowed in to inspect Yongbyon, the center of North Korea's nuclear programs, that year, they could hardly believe their eyes. Inside, the cooling pond looked like an abandoned swimming pool. Above it, a window was broken; a bird's carcass floated on the water. Below a film of algae, underwater cameras revealed metal receptacles—they looked like milk-bottle baskets—at the bottom of the pool containing spent nuclear fuel rods that could be reprocessed to produce weapons-grade plutonium. Some rods were broken, many mired in sludge. Tree leaves and twigs littered the place. Staring at the debris, inspectors suddenly realized that frogs were living in the water.

I’m sure that’s sooo safe. If that’s the situation in their cooling pools, I’d hate see what the rest of their nuclear facilities are like.

The human costs of North Korea's nuclear ambitions on the nation's best and brightest were terrible. Few paid a higher price than Kimchaek University's class of '62, according to a grad who defected from North Korea several years ago and told NEWSWEEK his story. As graduation at the elite college neared more than 40 years ago, the buzz on campus was that Kim Il Sung had ordered construction of an advanced research facility to study atomic energy, and that patriotic young scientists soon would be mobilized to work there. "Our professors really pushed the need for nuclear development," he recalls. "The rumor circulating among students was that those of us sent there wouldn't have long to live."

The defector, spared the fate of those assigned to nuclear labs, spent his adult life watching unlucky classmates grow sick, weak and despondent. On leave, one confided a Confucian desperation to marry and sire children before radiation rendered him sterile. "It was exactly what we feared," the defector says, still saddened by their sacrifice. "These guys went bald. Many of them lost their eyebrows. Some of them had constant nosebleeds. They looked so weak it was hard to even face them. The thinking was, 'If one scientist falls there will always be others to take his place'." That logic not only ravaged a generation of scientists sent like worker bees into toxic nuclear labs. It cost billions in hard currency that might have fed starving people and hobbled the national economy by imposing perpetual austerity under slogans like "Military first."

Not only do they starve their own people, but also subject the “brains” of their country to near lethal dose of radiation developing the one thing they want. I don’t know about anyone else but that sounds insane to me.

[Ducimus]

I like to think of the sanctions as a token gesture.

edit:
Just my opinion, all told, Bush really F**ked up by the numbers when it comes to North Korea.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

It only takes about two seconds on Google to find your answers:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...3000-1796r.htm

Here is an excerpt from that article. Let me know how many articles you want to read on the subject since Google is reporting tons and tons of them:

Made in France
The war in Iraq, which began March 19, 2003, provided disturbing evidence that France's treacherous dealings come at a steep cost to the United States.

On April 8 came the downing of Air Force Maj. Jim Ewald's A-10 Thunderbolt fighter over Baghdad and the discovery that it was a French-made Roland missile that brought down the American pilot and destroyed a $13 million aircraft. Ewald, one of the first U.S. pilots shot down in the war, was rescued by members of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion who saw him parachute to earth not far from the wreckage.

Army intelligence concluded that the French had sold the missile to the Iraqis within the past year, despite French denials.

A week after Ewald's A-10 was downed, an Army team searching Iraqi weapons depots at the Baghdad airport discovered caches of French-made missiles. One anti-aircraft missile, among a cache of 51 Roland-2s from a French-German manufacturing partnership, bore a label indicating that the batch was produced just months earlier.

In May, Army intelligence found a stack of blank French passports in an Iraqi ministry, confirming what U.S. intelligence already had determined: The French had helped Iraqi war criminals escape from coalition forces -- and therefore justice.
Then, there were French-made trucks and radios and the deadly grenade launchers, known as RPGs, with French-made night sights. Saddam loyalists used them to kill American soldiers long after the toppling of the dictator's regime.

The intelligence team sent to find Iraqi weapons also discovered documents outlining covert Iraqi weapons procurement leading up to the war. The CIA, however, refused to make public the documents on assistance provided by France or by other so-called allies of the United States.

The clandestine arms-procurement network, disclosed late last year by the Los Angeles Times, put a Syrian trading company in a pivotal role. Documents showed the company, SES International Corp., was the conduit for millions of dollars' worth of weapons purchased internationally, including from France. Al Bashair Trading Co. in Baghdad was the major front used by Saddam to buy arms abroad.

A Defense Department-sponsored report produced in February identified France as one of the top three suppliers of Iraq's conventional arms, after Russia and China. The report revealed that France supplied 12 types of armaments and a total of 115,005 pieces.

A major reason Iraqi militants posed a threat to U.S. forces for so many months was that they had access to weapons that Saddam stockpiled in violation of U.N. resolutions.

Firstly your statement said that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq" is as a result of French made weapons. By saying most, you imply that over half or a majority of all US deaths in Iraq are due to French supplied arms. I have looked at this article and others linking French weapons to Iraq and I fail to see how you can extrapolate from these links your claim that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons."

The Pentagon has admitted that over half of US combat casualties in Iraq are attributable to IED's otherwise known as roadside bombs. This is well documented and accepted as fact. However I haven't seen anything to suggest be it from newspapers or from official Governement channels such as the US DOD that "most" US soldiers killed in Iraq are courtesy of French made weapons. Even in the article that you have cited here the US Defence Department revealed in a report "France as one of the top three suppliers of Iraq's conventional arms, after Russia and China." The report put France at number three on the list behind Russia and China in terms of arms providers to Iraq.

I can only conclude that your principal assertion that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons" is at best misleading if not false and untrue. I would accept that some US soldiers have probably been killed by Iraqi insurgents with French made weapons but for you to claim that "most" US soldiers are killed by French weapons is nothing but a gross exageration on your part. Can you please either amend your claim or provide some hard data to back up your assertion?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Firstly your statement said that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq" is as a result of French made weapons. By saying most, you imply that over half or a majority of all US deaths in Iraq are due to French supplied arms. I have looked at this article and others linking French weapons to Iraq and I fail to see how you can extrapolate from these links your claim that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons."

The Pentagon has admitted that over half of US combat casualties in Iraq are attributable to IED's otherwise known as roadside bombs. This is well documented and accepted as fact. However I haven't seen anything to suggest be it from newspapers or from official Governement channels such as the US DOD that "most" US soldiers killed in Iraq are courtesy of French made weapons. Even in the article that you have cited here the US Defence Department revealed in a report "France as one of the top three suppliers of Iraq's conventional arms, after Russia and China." The report put France at number three on the list behind Russia and China in terms of arms providers to Iraq.

I can only conclude that your principal assertion that "most of what kills US troops in Iraq is French made weapons" is at best misleading if not false and untrue. I would accept that some US soldiers have probably been killed by Iraqi insurgents with French made weapons but for you to claim that "most" US soldiers are killed by French weapons is nothing but a gross exageration on your part. Can you please either amend your claim or provide some hard data to back up your assertion?

Have you looked at what thos IED's are made out of? French made weapons dismanteled. Go look at some of the video on the net and see for yourself.

-S