THE HOLOCAUST Germany 1933-1945

[kiwi_2005]

The holocaust is the attempted German extermination of the Jews from 1933 to 1945. Which then spread thoughout Europe. The great hatred that spread throughout Germany caused Germans to brutally murder Jews. Old people, children, babies it didn't matter, For example alot of the Waffen SS or Hitlers bodyguards like to have the parents watch while they slam there babies against rocks, or command Jews to push other Jews into fire pits. They got shot anyways if they didn't. Where did this hatred come from and why blame the Jew?
Then the hatred spread to countries like Poland, Romainia and parts of Yugoslavia,to name a few. I am Croatian blood, born in New Zealand and was shocked to read that we Croatians sided with the Nazis and form gangs that went round beating, tortureing Jews and other undesirables to death (desirables would mean, other yugoslavs like Serbs or muslims/christians, Gypsies etc.,). But the Jew were top of the list.
Here we are playing a game about the German Uboat we probably all know the uboat like the back of our hand, Yet did we know what went on while our Uboats were out at sea. Did you know that Donitz was a Hardcore Nazi ?
This is a part of history we should all recognize and not discuss it in secret or "When the times right" But discuss it openly and never forget what happen.

I am reading the book "The Holocaust The Jewish tragedy" by Martin Gilbert, a 900page volume and im only up to page 187 and am completely exhausted! i find myself having to get in the right frame of mind before i go and read it, because it is disturbing. One reader Sums it up: "One reads this book with Bleeding eyes "

Every page gives a straight forward detail on how the Jew was murdered. Nothing is left out .

[elanaiba]

Actually, Doenitz was no hardcore Nazi. At least reading his memoirs made me think so.

Also, while of course some of the things the germans did were unpardonable, there are also things that we cannot understand because the world is different today...

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Also, while of course some of the things the germans did were unpardonable, there are also things that we cannot understand because the world is different today...

Such as?

[tautug]

The holocaust was a horrifying tragedy hopefully never to be repeated again (although insurgency in Iraq is similar in a lot of respects).

However, reading books about the holocaust should be cautionary, especially if written by someone of the afflicted religion.

Your synopsis while correct in its horror, is quite flawed when one reads about German political history from Treaty of Versailles onward to 1945. There is a lot to it, which is not for this forum and takes years to understand, and explain.

Try reading "Rise and Fall of 3rd Reich". While it doesn't go into horrific detail of atrocities in concentration camps, it does give the military and political and propaganda detail to help explain why things happened the way they did, and how the public was so easily fooled, and will give better undersanding when you read books strictly about the holocaust.

I have found that putting SH3 aside until I read Rise and Fall, and then starting campaigns based on the year I was up to in the book really added to the depth and realism of the missions.

[Gizzmoe]

I´m moving this to "General Topics", the best place for discussions like this.

[Mowgli]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Such as?

Dresden springs to mind.

"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Mowgli

Dresden springs to mind.

What about it?

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Such as?

Well, as I understood from a discussion with a better informed person, retribution (is this the right word) against civilian population in response to partisans attacks was LAWFUL at the time.

Note, however, that I cannot imagine myself doing such a thing, lawful or not. It's just not moral!

But, I am just a guy reading history in my armchair. I cannot judge people in history accurately, since I have the benefit of hindsight, and don't go through the same as they do. I can imagine refusing an order without getting shot for it, etc.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, as I understood from a discussion with a better informed person, retribution (is this the right word) against civilian population in response to partisans attacks was LAWFUL at the time.

What is your statement based on?

[elanaiba]

Which part of "based on a discussion with a better informed person" do you not understand?

[Mowgli]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

What about it?

Now lets see what the Nazis done.

Illegally settled other peoples land.
Destroyed the homes of the famillies of the resistance.
Conviscated farms for their own use.
Exiled people from their countries.
Build concentration camps.
Practised racial discrimination.
Created gettos within occupied lands.
Sanctioned State murder of the opposition - iregardles of nearby innocent civilians.

Any of that sound familiar?

Yes. The Nazis were bad but so were the Russians, the Japanese and lots of other countries.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Mowgli

Now lets see what the Nazis done.

Illegally settled other peoples land.
Destroyed the homes of the famillies of the resistance.
Conviscated farms for their own use.
Exiled people from their countries.
Build concentration camps.
Practised racial discrimination.
Created gettos within occupied lands.
Sanctioned State murder of the opposition - iregardles of nearby innocent civilians.

Any of that sound familiar?

Yes. The Nazis were bad but so were the Russians, the Japanese and lots of other countries.

Your point being?

We started off with someone saying there were things we can understand. You piped in with Dresden. I linked to a report that would make it more understandable for people who don't seem to know the facts.

Now you come off with a list of atrocities created by Germans, Japanese and Russians.

I fail to see the connection.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Which part of "based on a discussion with a better informed person" do you not understand?

OK. It's just news to me and I'd be interested in a reference to ascertain this.

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

OK. It's just news to me and I'd be interested in a reference to ascertain this.

Yeah, I know, it's been news to me too, and unfortunately as this discussion was taking place over a beer I don't have more facts to support this.

I'll try to get in touch with the bloke through email and get more hard data. But, as I said, the simple fact that it was lawfull doesn't make it 100% excusable.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Yeah, I know, it's been news to me too, and unfortunately as this discussion was taking place over a beer I don't have more facts to support this.

Maybe the problem is simply one of memory loss?