SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Sonalysts Combat Sims > DW Mod Workshop
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-12-2005, 06:24 AM   #1
LuftWolf
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Free New York
Posts: 3,167
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 0
Default LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

Here is the readme. I will create a thread in the Mod Workshop for bugs and suggestions, feel free to use this thread for compliments and praise. I will send the v1.0 distribution to Bill after I get some coffee. :|\

LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors "One Stop Fix" Mod v1.0
Hosted by Subguru www.subguru.com
Readme by LuftWolf

Amizaur has contributed equally to this project. Thank you to finiteless for his general
contribution to modding DW. Thank you to Bill "Subguru" Nichols for hosting the work of so
many talented modders and mission designers.

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW gameplay that
most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without
introducing any new ones. Thank you in advancing for downloading this mod. Please send as
much feedback as you can via the dedicated thread in the Subsim DW Mod Workshop forum.

INSTALLATION: Unzip the file into your Dangerous Water directory, the Database files and
Doctrine files will install to the appropriate directories on their own. I recommend backing
up your Database and Doctrine folders before making any changes.

Please note, all values included here are actual Database values, and may not correspond
to real-life parameters, including those left unchanged and listed accurately in the in-game
reference.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
v1.0

Database Changes:

Akula I/II--

53cm Torpedo- given UGST specifications: Active/Passive Multipurpose Wireguided Torpedo,
30km@50kph, with maximum depth 800m (less on fire-control preset panel) with
300kg warhead (vs. MK48 ADCAP 850m depth w/350kg warhead).

65cm Torpedo- guidance sensor and doctrine changed to simulate 65-76 Wakehoming Hydrogen Peroxide-powered Torpedo (the type supposedly removed after the Kursk
Incident). All specifications have been left the same except guidance-following
the wakehome doctrine now-and the the wire has been removed. The wire-guidance
option has been disable in-game, but I can't change the fire-control graphics,
so you'll just have to remember that the A/P and search pattern buttons do
nothing, and that the torpedo will continue in a straigh line after it enables.
LAUNCH THE TORPEDO WITH THE DEPTH SET AT ~10m, depending on how lucky you feel
that day. The Nixie should not affect this weapon in any way, but over-the-side
decoys will cause enough of a disturbance in the water to distrupt the
wakehoming, but the torpedo will not detonate on the CM's, and usually
reaquire.

SS-N-27 ASM-BETA- Changed to a two stage weapon, to simulate it's two phase-attack and evasive maneovering. The final stage of the weapon has a maximum range of 20000m (11nm), meaning that the launch stage (which drops the attack stage) must enable between
2nm and 11nm, to allow the missle enough time to acquire within its range.
Practically, this means that the missle can engage targets between ~6nm (4nm
enable, 2nm attack) and 119nm (108nm max range to enable first stage, 11nm max
range for attack stage). It is best to enable the weapon as far from the
target as possible to expose as little of the "slow" stage to ship defenses.
Note, at about 16nm before enable point, the missle will pop up to 300ft and
enable for 10 seconds, then return to seaskimming altitude of 30ft. This
simulates an acquisition phase of the actual missle, but may give the target
a good chance of tracking the incoming vampire. Note, after playing around with
the new SS-N-27, my impressions are: you have to employ more skill to use
it, as you only have a 11nm window; if you use it right, you can get the super-
sonic stage to launch just as the first SAM approach your missles, making this
an even more deadly anti-ship missle, when used with skill.

Akula II Passive Sound Levels- I have set the volume levels of the two Akula II's equal to
the quieter one (between the 688(i) and the Seawolf). Previously, the Vepr' was
slightly quieter than the Gepard. In some sense, this is personal perference,
but it seems to make sense, given that all other ships of the same class
have the same in-game specs, as far as I know.

Surface Ships--

Russian SVTT-Ship Launched Torpedos- Changed to USET-80, to better reflect Russian
capabilites. Note, only Russian SVTT launchers previously
equipped with 53cm torpedos have been changed, some launchers are equipped
with other torpedos. Also, the Grisha FFL retains the 53cm Torpedo w/UGST
specifications, as the USNR in-game database says its launchers have
been modified to fire wire-guided torpedos, so I thought it might
be interesting.

Radar Heights Changed-BETA- Some radar heights have been lowered, as previously some ships had been able to see too far over the horizon. Also, the minimum altitude
of the AEGIS SPY-1 Radar has been lowered from 5000ft to 10ft, which should
help them better track sea-skimming vampires.


688(i)--

688(i) Towed Arrays- Added TB-23 as starboard array. The reason I have kept it
on the starboard, against what is commonly reported, is because in missions
where ownship starts with TA deployed, it is always the starboard array, and I
figured in most situations I would want that one deployed. The port TB-16
washes out at ~20kts and the TB-23 washes out at around ~16kts (you folks
can tell me if that feels right once you play around with it...
or if I'm just completely off...). I have set the sensitivity of the TB-23
to be pretty much in the middle of the TB-16 and the TB-29. I was even able to
change the names in game, so have fun captains!

Mines--

SLMM and Mobile Mine--Includes Doctrine Files
A fix that makes them stop making noise after they have stopped moving has been
applied to both weapons. In addition, they will now actively try to stop once
they have reached their assigned location and will be reliably on target and hold
their position, making them an effective weapon, which they were not before. Their
maximum usable depth remains the same (300ft for SLMM and 450ft for Mobile mines,
the range of their seekers), but the weapon will shutdown below 600ft. These weapons
are for use in shallow water and will "malfunction" in deep water. ;-) Also, do not
try to use these weapons on a steep slope.

Missle Parameters--

Passive Signature for Underwater Missle Launch--
All sub-launched missles now produce a very noisy transient when launched and a TIW
warning (I believe). The exception to this is the Harpoon, which is much quieter,
simulating its launch from a canister which opens up once it gets to the surface,
making it a better option verse the TASM than previously.

IR Signatures-
IR signatures added for all missles based on type, with a reasonable scaling from
seaskimming cruise-missles to supersonic, rocket powered anti-ship missles. This now
makes RAMs effective against anti-ship missles.

Amizaur's MANPAD Seeker Fix-
We have included the fix that has been around for sometime, reducing the seeker cone
of MANPADs to 3 degrees.

Doctrines:

Included in this "One Stop" Distribution, are a compilation of doctrine files that improve
DW and provide compatibility for this mod, all done by Amizaur.

MissleSkim54E-- Doctrines are necessary for Two Stage SS-N-27 ASM.

SLMM-- Necessary for SLMM/Mobile Mine fix.

SubAvoid...-- Doctrines correct a bug in sub evasion routines that tells them to come too
shallow while evading, causing cavitation. Well tested.

Missle/MissleSam-- Corrects minor bugs in missle function. Well tested.


Subroc Attack.txt-- Improves accuracy of Subroc torpedo drop points.

Torpedo.txt- randomizes the left/right of Snake search pattern.

CIWSAttack.txt-ALPHA- Directs ships to fire a barrage of missles at "hard" targets, very close or very fast. It is your choice to include this, you can backup
your original CIWSAttack.txt doctrine and change the name of the file
included. I have played with this, and it definately makes ships launch more
SAM's at incoming vampires. I have yet to encounter any serious bugs with it.

That's it! I hope you enjoy! Please let me know if you find any errors, would like to
contribute to a future release, or have any suggestions or comments. The place is the
Subsim Mod Workshop!.

Happy Hunting.

LW
__________________
LW
LuftWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 07:32 AM   #2
LuftWolf
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Free New York
Posts: 3,167
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 0
Default

In looking through the database one last time, I have decided to set the passive SL of both Akula II's equal to each other, as that seems to make more sense. Previously the Vepr' was slightly quieter than the Gepard. Now, they are both between the Seawolf and the 688(i).

Time to zip her up...
__________________
LW
LuftWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 09:56 AM   #3
Bill Nichols
Master of Defense
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,504
Downloads: 125
Uploads: 0
Default

I'll gladly host this mod. Expect my next site update tomorrow (Saturday 13 Aug).
__________________
My Dangerous Waters website:
Bill Nichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 05:04 PM   #4
Ula Jolly
Samurai Navy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 567
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I would be tempted to investigate... will a SAM missile actually avoid killing the SS-N-27 after it reaches supersonic, or would the game give it a much too good reaction?
__________________
I shall punish yee, landlubber! C'mere for spankings and popsicles!
Ula Jolly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 07:55 PM   #5
Amizaur
Sonar Guy
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Poland
Posts: 397
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The point is that the base SS-N-27 ASM missile never goes supersonic :-). It only relases supersonic second stage - graphics of this one are borrowed from AS-12 Keglar. It's only a first demo now, an example that it's possible to do and it works quite well. The SAM missile usually kills the subsonic SS-N-27 carrier missile but at this moment stage 2 is usually relased and going to the target at 1900kts. The ship have to fire second SAM to shoot down the supersonic stage, and sometimes doesn't make this in time before is hit... On the other hand if the missile is detected and engaged in subsonic phase, it's shoot down quite easily before it relases second stage.
It's a matter of SS-N-27 missile settings (knowing range to target), ship radar horizon, early detection, reaction times and some luck :-) To use it efectively you have to know range to target, so you have to do TMA and find a solution, if you fire it simply on bearing of the target, most likely you don't hit anything or it be shoot down easily. On the other hand, if you know range to target and set optimal enable point, it's quite deadly and even single one can pass ship defences sometime :-). It's side effect of current version shortcomings, but balances the game quite nicely I think. Not so easy to use (and kill everything on the surface by bearing only) as it was, but quite deadly if you work out range to target first. Sounds OK ? :-)
The missile model works quite close to what is known about real 3M54E, the only difference is that it does not detect targets in subsonic phase yet, the standard weapon sensor range is too short. It turns radar on during pop-up maneuver to be detectable by ESM (and give some warning to target, as real one) but actual target detection is done by second stage currently, that's why setting enable point right is so important now. In the future new version is planned which will make target search in subsonic phase and will relase second stage on optimal distance by itself, but it needs much work - I don't know when it will be ready so I'm relasing basic version now. It's only technology demostrator, an example how it could be done. But works quite good even now, me thinks :-) Try it :-)
Amizaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 01:34 AM   #6
Kapitan
Old Salt
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On an island close to Europe but too far from the USA
Posts: 6,088
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 1
Default

Gepard is quieter than vepr but there is one other thing

WHERE IS K419 MORZH?

K419 morzh is an akula I improved but she is not on the list where is she ?
__________________
My entire collection of Photographs are available for all to view updated as soon as museums are visited please follow the link to view enjoy:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 04:21 AM   #7
LuftWolf
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Free New York
Posts: 3,167
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 0
Default

Amizaur, once again, fantastic job on the ss-n-27.

Kapitan, in the stock database, the gepard is listed with PSL 65, and the Vepr' is listed with PSL 64. As I have said in the readme, I don't know the actual values, but I know what feels right to me in game terms.

I believe the reason they would have had the vepr quieter is because it has the extra transmission quieting measures that the Gepard doesn't (it's a little shorter I think). On the otherhand, the rearraigment of the TA might give it a lower BB signal, so I made them equal. It seemed to make more sense.
__________________
LW
LuftWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 07:53 AM   #8
Kapitan
Old Salt
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On an island close to Europe but too far from the USA
Posts: 6,088
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 1
Default

vepr was launched before gepard so normaly its an advancement thats made on the next one.

the gepard doesnt have the distinctive bullet on the rear as vepr does


vepr showing the bullet



gepard showing no bullet

the diffrence between the gepard an vepr doesnt stop there vepr can dive only to 660 meters yet the gepard 675meters gepard is a prototype for new systerms and in some cases classified as Akula III

the akula 2 SSN's displace 12,000 tonnes where normaly akula only displace 9,000tonnes the speeds are the same but gepard is the most advanced akula submarine there is and proven by the west it is the quietest SSN yet produced by the russians.
__________________
My entire collection of Photographs are available for all to view updated as soon as museums are visited please follow the link to view enjoy:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 07:55 AM   #9
Kapitan
Old Salt
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On an island close to Europe but too far from the USA
Posts: 6,088
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
(it's a little shorter I think).
gepard is acctualy 3 feet longer than vepr
__________________
My entire collection of Photographs are available for all to view updated as soon as museums are visited please follow the link to view enjoy:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 12:14 PM   #10
LuftWolf
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Free New York
Posts: 3,167
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 0
Default

The mod is up on Bill's site! I hope you all try it and give us some feedback!

K-

Thanks for pictures!

I'm talking about in the game... I'm not sure why SCS would have made the Gepard louder in the database but they did.

I would recommend downloading and installing our mod! Plus, you get all the great Russian weapons!

If you don't want to change up everything, than you can get Ludgar's excellent database editor (I use it for all my modding needs) or Jsteed's new editor (I've never tried it, but I'm sure it's great) and change the PSL in the object database yourself (using the editor is super easy, if can figure out the what the individual values mean, which even Ludgar and the DWX boys don't know yet), otherwise, your DW doesn't reflect your convictions.
__________________
LW
LuftWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 01:11 PM   #11
TLAM Strike
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 8,639
Downloads: 29
Uploads: 6


Default

I just tryed the new SS-N-27 ASMs and all they do is drop in to the sea when they reach the enable point.
__________________


TLAM Strike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 01:21 PM   #12
Kapitan
Old Salt
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On an island close to Europe but too far from the USA
Posts: 6,088
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 1
Default

yes i also had a fluke launch i was on surface fired a SS-N-27 on surface 3 knots and it bounced off the water then crashed into the water not good
__________________
My entire collection of Photographs are available for all to view updated as soon as museums are visited please follow the link to view enjoy:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 01:54 PM   #13
LuftWolf
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Free New York
Posts: 3,167
Downloads: 2
Uploads: 0
Default

I just tested mine and it worked fine (I reinstalled it from the distribution I sent to Bill).

Make sure the doctrine files are installed. All three of the Missleskim54e doctrines must be installed.

Also, make sure you have set the weapon to enable within 11nm of the target, and watch the weapon.

I should have added in the readme, it is best to try this one in a test mission with truth on before going to war with it, as it can be tricky to use.

Also, to be sure, the correct command to use when ranging the missle is "seeker range", in-game, this is the point when the supersonic second stage will launch, with a max range of 11nm. If you use the "destruct range" as the enable point, then it will definately destroy itself.

Trust us, it works.

And if it doesn't after you have tried my suggestions, then I will do whatever it takes to get it to work for you. I have to go out for a bit, but I will check later.
__________________
LW
LuftWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 02:49 PM   #14
TLAM Strike
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 8,639
Downloads: 29
Uploads: 6


Default

I reinstalled and it now works. I guess one of the files didn't copy.

Time to go check the mines, I've been bitching about them since the demo...
__________________


TLAM Strike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 03:34 PM   #15
DivingWind
Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lithuania
Posts: 211
Downloads: 7
Uploads: 0
Default

I'll rather wait for official patch.(for online play purposes)
__________________

DivingWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1997- 2017 Subsim