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Old 05-06-2017, 01:14 AM   #1
Sniper297
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Default Another 1.5 bug with mission editor?

Trying to edit EastAsiaCampaign.mis and kept getting a CTD with the error message. Tried US_NavalBases.mis and that opened okay. So then I went back to my 1.4 folder, opened the EastAsiaCampaign.mis in the 1.5 folder with no problem.

Looking at the difference between 1.4 and 1.5;

SH4 1.4 Sh4MissionEditor.exe - 556 kilobytes, date 11/20/2007
SH4 1.5 Sh4MissionEditor.exe - 572 kilobytes, date 12/20/2007

Anyone know what the difference is? This is the first time I've tried to use the new editor, can't recall ever getting a CTD with the earlier one.
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Old 05-06-2017, 01:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper297 View Post
Trying to edit EastAsiaCampaign.mis and kept getting a CTD with the error message. Tried US_NavalBases.mis and that opened okay. So then I went back to my 1.4 folder, opened the EastAsiaCampaign.mis in the 1.5 folder with no problem.

Looking at the difference between 1.4 and 1.5;

SH4 1.4 Sh4MissionEditor.exe - 556 kilobytes, date 11/20/2007
SH4 1.5 Sh4MissionEditor.exe - 572 kilobytes, date 12/20/2007

Anyone know what the difference is? This is the first time I've tried to use the new editor, can't recall ever getting a CTD with the earlier one.

Editing RSRD mission layers(assuming RSRD, the east asia campaign sounds liek an RSRD layer) with the ME is asking for trouble. RSRD is very sensitive and it layers with traffic included should only be edited via notepad. Lurker mentions this in the readme.

Edit via notepad and if trying to add traffic, add it via the appropriate blank layers such as a subhunter layer or the troopship layers he did not use.
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:52 PM   #3
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... and if you have v1.5, and try to open a v1.4 file, you might crash anyway. Same thing if you have mods. If you have TMO2.5 installed and make a mission, it can only be "safely" opened in the TMO2.5 Mission Editor, so that it calls in the correct library files for the ships, planes, land units, etc. If you try to open a TMO2.5 file with the GFO ME, you might very well CTD, or at the least, lock-up the ME. Those are all due to different ship and airplane calls, ie: a DE might change from a Type=4 to a Type=3.

If you have multiple installs of Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific on your machine, using MultiSH, you have to be sure you're using the Mission Editor from the mod that you're building / editing the Mission for. Also remember that the ME will remember sessions you had in other mods, so watch the folder structure you're working in. You can edit RSRDC files in the ME, but you have to have RSRDC activated, and run the ME from that folder - remembering the caveat that Bubblehead1980 alludes to from lurker_hlb3 in his ReadMe files, that you will trash the "timetable" of the RGG, among other things. What happens is that the Mission Editor will "see" certain parameters set to values different than IT wants, and will put those parameters the way it wants them ~AND~ oftentimes will add back in extraneous lines in each Groups "definition" that usually aren't needed. This will change the behavior of the "layer", sometimes drastically. As an example, a file in RSRDC with this "definition":


[RndGroup 1]
GroupName=FakeCruDiv
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=17071670.000000
Lat=3189400.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=0
DelayMinInterv=0
SpawnProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
Heading=175.645004
Speed=14.000000
ColumnsNo=2
Spacing=1000
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411204
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19421011
GameExitTime=0
MaxInst=1
MaxUnitsCreated=7
DockedShip=false
NextWP=0

after editing in the ME becomes:


[RndGroup 1]
GroupName=FakeCruDiv
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=17071670.000000
Lat=3189400.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=1440
SpawnProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
HighPrioContact=false
Heading=175.645004
Speed=14.000000
ColumnsNo=2
Spacing=1000
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411204
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19421011
GameExitTime=0
MaxInst=10000
MaxUnitsCreated=1000
DockedShip=false
TacticalGroup=false
AvailStartDate=19411204
AvailEndDate=19421011
ControlZoneRadius=100.000000
NextWP=0

Not all of the "orange" lines above change everytime, such as the DelayMinInterv= line, but quite often they do, dependent upon circumstances, what you've changed and how you save the file. The DelayMin= line ~always changes if set to less than "60". Work on copies, and watch the changes after you edit, because you ~will~ have to re-edit in a text editor after using the Mission Editor. This even applies for files that are NOT RSRDC files. The Mission Editor will put in things that its "logic" says is missing or erroneous. It's just that lurker_hlb3 relied upon especially the DelayMin= and DelayMinInterv= working with the MaxInst= and MaxUnitsCreated= lines to adhere to his "schedule" of events, and only getting ONE instance of a Group. The other five lines are redundant, unless you specifically need to use them.

The HighPrioContact= line works with the two lines above, if you're going to have a spawn be reported like "Friendly convoy reported at 167E 24N" sort of thang, and have your game interrupted by the report. The ControlZoneRadius= line defines how big of an area the RGG might spawn in, adding a bit more randomness to it, but adding to the issues. It is recommended to eliminate this line ALL the time. The AvailStartDate= and AvailEndDate= lines are used when you want to spawn a Unit or Group (cannot be an RGG) upon a Trigger / Event sequence in a MIS file. I have not been able to figure out the significance of TacticalGroup=. It remains a mystery to me - for now... I can certainly crash my computer good with the experiments...

As Bubblehead1980 says, adding traffic to RSRDC is easiest if you use one of Lurker's empty files, or add one of your own, else you have to do some heavy double-clutching with the edits. Just be sure the file is listed in the Campaign.cfg file, else it won't load...

Sorry 'bout the verbosity... The 34th Flotilla (Dietrich) used to have a v17 of the Silent Hunter III Mission Editor Manual, but I can only find links for v6 now. If you have v17, read it...
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Old 05-06-2017, 03:57 PM   #4
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No, this is all stock 1.5 game, using the mission editor in the stock 1.5 game, and EastAsiaCampaign.mis is one of the defaults dated 2/25/2007 in 1.4 and 1.5, hasn't changed. The earlier mission editor opens it happily, the new 1.5 mission editor crashes every time. And yes, I did double check that I'm using the mission editor from the 1.5 folder and editing the EastAsiaCampaign.mis in the same folder, that was the first thing I checked after the first crash. I can duplicate this every time, that mission opens flawlessly with the 1.4 editor, crashes every time with the 1.5 editor.

Another bug is CTD at random times while playing - I think the common denominator is the FUBUKI class destroyer, although I've changed nothing in that. Tried with and without GFO, I can't duplicate the gripe at will but so far every time it happens there are destroyers hunting me. Half tempted to give up and go back to 1.4, this version seems to have 10 times as many bugs in it. Not much of a patch.
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:46 PM   #5
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Ahhh, but you paid money for it, therefore - it is an "upgrade"... Sorry, bad joke...

I've got v1.3 (for some strange reason), v1.4 and v1.5 all on my hard drive. I can try tomorrow with mine on that EastAsiaCampaign file. Seems to me, that there's a bad call in that thing, but I don't remember what, whether a ship or plane or objective or what... We found that while updating things in Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate. I just figured it was from the mod...
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:50 PM   #6
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Yeah, the funny thing is my biggest gripe was the SJ radar shutting off when a wave broke over it, and the crew AI not having enough sense to turn it back on after the wave passed. The actually fixed that (hooray!) but in the process added a new bug with the sweep hiccup passing 000 on every cycle. And failed to fix the reversed PPI/Ascope or make the default the PPI when you click the radar button or get rid of the automatic focus when changing to the PPI scope.

Anyway, back to the mission editor, had a few minutes to kill this morning so I started opening some of the 41 missions, then when I got to the 42 missions I got;

ERROR: random group 42b_Jap_TroopConvoys_001 contains an invalid class entry PLConteVerde!!!

(in addition to their 7s with the funny crossbar, Europeans are fond of using exclamation marks by firing them from a scattergun)

Followed by 002, 003, couple dozen repetitions of similar errors!!! and after clicking through all of those it loaded the mission without crashing. After that I tried the problem child, EastAsiaCampaign.mis, and this time it decided to load that one without crashing. I dunno, maybe the new mission editor only works on Sundays or something.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:07 AM   #7
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The PL_ConteVerde is a problem child in all sorts of mods, and can be a source of ~bad~ cross-contamination... in some versions, it's a Type=103 for Passenger Liner, and in others, it'll be Type=109. Open the CFG files for it in

Game Folder / Data / Sea / NPL_Conte_Verde /
Game Folder / Data / Roster / Country / Sea /

folders, and using a text editor, make sure the Type lines in those match each other, and then use a "Find" function in your text editor and make certain all of your MIS files match those (especially the TroopTransport layers). Some of the files might be named "PL_Conte_Verde" or "PL_ConteVerde" or "PLConteVerde", or you might see "EuroLiner..." in the NPL_Conte_Verde Sea Folder - be sure the texture files match the calls also... The Type=109 is supposedly a "Rare Troop Transport" or maybe "Rare Passenger Liner" or similar, depending upon the mod... I can't think of any other ship in the game that has as many "manglings" as this one...

Mis-matching of the Type= lines and Class= lines usually leads to a CTD in the game, either when using the Recognition Manual, or shooting a torpedo at the vessel and then just as the torpedo makes impact. One type of error leads to the one CTD, a different error leads to the other, but I can't remember which is which... Similarly, one of those mis-matches leads to an error message as the Mission Editor loads a MIS file, and the other lets the ME load the file, but then you can't zoom-in or move around... either way, if you choose the "Properties" on especially the "bad" vessel, you'll CTD or even lock-up the computer, and possibly have to do a warm and / or cold start...
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #8
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Hmmm. There is a different date for PLConteVerde.cfg in 1.4 and 1.5, what I'm wondering now is what's the redeeming value for 1.5? I'm trying to think of a reason for not giving up on it and going back to 1.4, and coming up empty. Since I don't use mega mods the only reason for having 1.5 would be to fix bugs and glitches that were present in 1.4, and since they added a dozen new bugs for each one they fixed that doesn't work for me. I've had more CTD in the last 2 weeks with 1.5 than I had over 8 years with 1.4, is it really worth the aggravation? 1.4 has a list of changes and fixes from 1.3, is there a similar list for 1.5?

v1.4 Changes:
  • Rendering distance increased to 20km, with appropriate improvement for visual sensors capabilities
  • Dynamic loading of game units has been implemented, considerably improving loading times
  • Improvements to Water rendering
  • Improvements for enemy ships detection of steam torpedoes
  • Damage taken by hulls submarine is shown in the damage interface
  • Entries in Captain�s Log are now limited for better performance
  • Screenshot names now contain the date they were taken on
  • End patrol ports are now displayed on the map
  • Objectives on the navigation now change color when completed
Fixes:
  • Destroyer/Submarine collisions always leading to the destroyer being sunk
  • Fix the periscope animation problem
  • Save & Load issues with the submarine crew
  • Magnetic/Contact Detonator switch now working properly
  • Improper display of the TBT interface for widescreen resolutions
  • Loss of torpedo aiming track when crossing the International Date Line
  • Deck gun Metric/Imperial system issues
  • Repeating objectives bug
  • Correct date when loading a save from career
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:13 PM   #9
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There ~was~, on the Ubi site, but I can't find it. It is in the ReadMe in the Support folder in v1.5:

################################################## ##############################

4. Changes in Addon (v1.5)

################################################## ##############################


HARD DRIVE SPACE

Windows will require additional free hard drive space for its operating system
(virtual memory). If you encounter the following message in an error dialog:
"Ran out of virtual memory", free up some more hard drive space.

To install Silent Hunter 4 - Wolves of the Pacific - Addon you will need approximately 1.3 GB free hard disk space for the full install.

The most notable changes are:

1. German campaigns are now accesible through the main menu button "U-boat campaign". To play a career with the US Silent Service, use the new "American Career" button. The included campaign focuses on German operations in the Indian Ocean and nearby areas.
2. When commanding a German u-boat it is possible to enable the Kriegsmarine Grid Quadrant Overlay over the Navigation map.
3. The Submarine upgrade system and screen has been improved
4. Improved crew management system
5. New player and crew abilities available via crew management system
6. New Type IX D2 Long range U-boot
7. New Type XVIII Walther U-boat with unique propulsion system
8. Player has been given limited control over allied units (naval and air), depending on his current rank.
9. Game loading time has been greatly reduced though dynamic loading.
10. Maximum render distance increased to 20 km
11.Water rendering improvements
12.New warships
-Graf Spee Pocket Battleship
-Black Swan Class Sloop
-River Class Frigate - with a correct 3d model this time
-J Class Destroyer
-V&W Destroyer
-Flower Class Corvette
-Fiji class light cruiser
13.New Merchant Ships
-Hog Island type A Freighter
-Charlotte Schliemann supply ship
-California Express Passenger Freighter
-War Melody
-Paula medium tanker
14.New Aircraft
-Ar-196
-Sunderland Patrol Plane
-Beaufighter fighter bomber
15.Added more Generic unit types improving campaign editing and unit appearance control. Iowa and Yamato are now "Super Battleship" class and won't spawn as "Generic Battleship".


The "Known Issues" is right after that... Apparently, there's no problems.

I still use both games, and prefer v1.5 by a bit over v1.4. I have the v1.4 for a couple older mods, such as FotRS v1.2. I have two-plus installs, using MultiSH and separate Save folders... Version 1.5 does not CTD on me, unless I mess something up in it, or go by Truk... :wink: If you did the UBoats Add-On, like I did on my other computer, you ~can~ run into issues with the update process. What I've found is that a "pristine" install (Robbins CMS works wonders for this stuff) and then don't play the game. Do the update with the UBoats AddOn. Then play -er- test it...
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:41 PM   #10
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Hmmm.

1.4: Rendering distance increased to 20km, with appropriate improvement for visual sensors capabilities

1.5:

10. Maximum render distance increased to 20 km

So they increased it from 20km to 20km?

Looking over that list there's not much there. I have one 1.5 folder with nothing but the opmunson mod, played around with a type VII career a few times, no crashes in that. Beginning to suspect the reason I'm having all these crashes and nobody else is, is because I'm the only one who ever plays Asiatic careers. Either that or I'm the only one still running XP and 1.5 was made for Vista. Again, the biggest head scratcher - is it worth bothering with it? Today I'm starting a new Asiatic career in 1.4, same sub same ships same missions no crashes. One difference I did note - 1.5 has Y-gun projectors throwing depth charges out to the sides on IJN destroyers, don't see that in 1.4. It's a cool feature which increases the evasion challenge, but that alone isn't enough to fiddle around for months chasing bugs. One of the 1.5 folders has nothing in it except Webster's latest 1.5 GFO mod, even that one crashes frequently for me.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:45 PM   #11
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Well, I've got v1.5 on two machines with XP (dual-boots) and it runs fine. I ran OpMonsun (been quite a while) just fine, and I've done stock. I have no clue as to why you're getting CTDs, other than to re-do the install. Most folks would tell you that v1.5 is better than v1.4, but... if you want the side-throwers in v1.4, AOTD_MadMax had them in Fall of the Rising Sun v1.2 I'm pretty sure... I know they're in v2.0, which is a SHv1.4 only version of his mod, and in German only also. There is no language barrier when it comes to sidethrowers... I can't remember the TMO version (or was it RSRDC??) that was the last for v1.4, but one of them had side throwers also, didn't they?...
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:28 AM   #12
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As a follow-up Sniper297, I'm working on that EastAsiaCampaign MIS file for another mod. I was able to crash the Mission Editor using the ME from a different install than what the EastAsiaCampaign file was in. Quite by accident, but it locked-up things to the point that I had to <Ctrl><Alt><Del> (three finger salute) - to bring up Task Manager and "Stop Task". Even then, I had to wait a bit for it to stop the process(es)... I do not know what the differences in the ME between versions is, but I'd guess there's probably a better check of the "Assets Catalog" in v1.5, ie: ships, subs, planes, land units, etc., available to the ME for use in the game. - tic. I 'guess' that because I can open the v1.5 MIS file in the v1.4 editor, but not the other way around, even though the MIS files are the same. There are different assets available in v1.5, and it might be that its "error checking" might be more thorough, and it sees things that it wants as missing. dunno for sure, of course, but...
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:41 AM   #13
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Default Waterbug wandering

I've also been playing with that one, two hacks;



That's the first one, on the left is the original course, the red circle is where it actually goes, cutting the corner on that 135 degree angle at WP5. At that location, 120.13 / 17.5 is where it stops and proceeds to circle, different ships slowing to 1 knot then randomly speeding up to 13, running halfway around the rest of the group, slowing to 1 again, then waiting until several other ships take turns playing drunken sailor before doing it again. On the right is the altered course, gotta start a new career to test that. This is Convoy12, which starts and ends near Formosa.

Second item is the number of ships and spacing;

Original
7 DD
3 CL
8 small passenger carriers
total 18 ships

My edit
5DDs
2CA
1BB
1 modern passenger liner
1 old passenger liner
total 10 ships

I thought getting rid of all those tiny 1800 ton troopships and increasing the spacing might help, looks like I might be wrong. OTOH two regular liners add up to about the same tonnage, those little 1800 ton bathtub toys aren't really worth a torpedo.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:29 AM   #14
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The routing you did on the right-hand side is what should be done for all the groups, especially the airplanes. The AI is not to be trusted to "shoot from the hip" with tight routing. When we were re-doing Pearl Harbor a few releases ago, just about everything in the area had either a triangle or a tight box routing. A lot of the airplanes would crash, either into Ford Island, themselves, the hillsides, or the water. The ships would back into each other, or drive themselves into a corner and just sit there. If you watched for less than 10 minutes, you'd probably see at least 3 implausible things going on, all around the docks on the East side of Ford Island. Another thing is the spacing between vessels in the groups, such as Convoy 12 that you have there. Notice that there isn't any "definition" of a group spacing, since they built it by hand. How close together are they?

As a reference, we'll have to find you Rockin Robbins Convoy from H-E-double-hockey-sticks file. The "passenger" ships react differently from the tankers, which are different from the warships, etc. You can use that "Play" feature in the Mission Editor until you're blue in the face, trying to check your groups, and it still won't tell you how the groups will proceed in-game. You have to run the mission in the game and actually watch them in order to see it. If you look at a particular Stock SM xx file (cannot remember the name), they've got a convoy routed across dry land, and it drives several DD across that dry land in the ME's "Player" thingie. Looks fine from a distance, until you zoom in and see it do that. In the game, when the convoy gets to that particular area, all sorts of "collision avoidance" stuff kicks in, and the convoy, as you so aptly described, mills about like a bunch of drunken sailors that don't know how to read a compass, much less a chart.

Everything bunches up just off the shore of that island that isn't an impediment in the ME, and when I actually played the mission a little further than normal and followed the convoy to that area, I was able to sit off the island in the deep water, and pick the ships off at my leisure, king of like harbor raiding in Stock, having to move just a bit a couple of times while a DD came over to investigate, and then they'd get further confused about what the convoy was doing. Usually in that mis, I'd attack within 20-30 minutes, getting maybe two or three merchants before being depth charged for an hour and a half, and then losing the rest of the convoy (or so I thought)...

For me, this is the kind of stuff that makes a game "believable", if you get rid of the strange routes and downright strange make-ups of some of the convoys (how many BB and DD did the Japanese have again??), you not only make the "game-play" look better, but the game isn't "thrashing" as much and wasting cpu cycles on basically "drunken sailors". Keep up the excellent work! Now you've only got 90 more files to go through in the Campaign...

btw, will we be able to "borrow" your work when you're finished (maybe Rockin R already asked you... ??) for FotRSU as an optional Add-On?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:25 AM   #15
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Yeah. I could upload and you could use it for whatever, I'm not a sensitive artiste worried about "intellectual property". That's assuming, of course, that the rounding off sharp angles and spreading out the spacing actually fixes it so it's worth uploading.
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